King Song 14D cut out...writing this from hospital

[litewave]

5 hours ago, steve454 said:

This ninebot seems to cut off on smooth asphalt.  It shows over and over in slower and slower motion.  Nothing in the description that tells what caused it.  Looks like he was going pretty fast, but no tiltback.

 

This video looks suspicious: wheel looks newish, but has weird side covers with noob leg padding (einradwerkstatt mod?); foot position uneven/sloppy; pedal pitch appears to be calibrated forward; and the camera is at the ready. This was staged.

[US69]

.

Esaj has said it exactly like it is:

Every wheel can fail at any time!

I would even go that far that its no question if a wheel will fail...its just a question of time!

And that has nothing todo with any kind of brand.

We are relying on a PCB board with nano capacitors, resistors, gyro and what not, and even if just the smallest part on the board fail, this will lead to spontaneus faceplant. I am using the same type of cell for vaping gear since over 4 years. And guess what: From one moment to another these cells can  stop working, its rare, but it happens. So especially wheels with very small batterys , i would count all 16S2P or 20s2P wheels in that category, have a higher chance of failing, as on this small batterys one dead cell may be enough for leading to wheel failure.

This is no spreading of Panic....just be aware that with these type of wheels we use there is no security mechanism at all! one tiny part fails...the wheel fails. So my advise would also be to wear safety gear...always! The other advise would be to "listen to your wheel" or "know your wheel and its capabilities and dont overstress it just for pure fun.... Do the "over stressing part" only when needed....aka emergency situations, breaking etc...But i guess this should go in a own thread and is another story...

 

For interests how easy a PCB (like in our wheels) can be damaged and stop working take a look at youtube channel Louis Rossmann...reparing apple PCB's and other stuff. seeing what the smallest corrosion/water ingress/etc can do to a PCB might change your idea, that in "normal usage situation" our wheels/PCB will not fail....

[Chriull]

I'd agree wirh @esaj that most incidents come from "not knowing the limits of the wheel" ("operator faults"). These limits are not in any way intuitive - there is no real "feedback loop", so one can "safely" approach the limits... The physics of wheels operation take quite some study to understand - and understanding wont reliably help to avoid all incidents...

Also the longer a wheel worked fine, the higher the chance it won't get a "sudden fault" (knocking in wood - like with my wheels till now). Just with age some connection probs/wire breaks could occur, electric gyroscopes could not be the most reliable over time. The aging of the liion cells (as ? @US69 ? stated) could be the first "real" aging prob showing up. Especially with the low cell voltage cut-off from the BMS ? @novazeus? wrote (not sure if this is eliminated with all new wheels? Just GW have absolutely no charge side cutoff?)

[stephen]

19 minutes ago, Chriull said:

I'd agree wirh @esaj that most incidents come from "not knowing the limits of the wheel" ("operator faults"). These limits are not in any way intuitive - there is no real "feedback loop", so one can "safely" approach the limits... The physics of wheels operation take quite some study to understand - and understanding wont reliably help to avoid all incidents...

Also the longer a wheel worked fine, the higher the chance it won't get a "sudden fault" (knocking in wood - like with my wheels till now). Just with age some connection probs/wire breaks could occur, electric gyroscopes could not be the most reliable over time. The aging of the liion cells (as ? @US69 ? stated) could be the first "real" aging prob showing up. Especially with the low cell voltage cut-off from the BMS ? @novazeus? wrote (not sure if this is eliminated with all new wheels? Just GW have absolutely no charge side cutoff?)

how often would you recommend getting a service for your wheel. I've bought knee pads elbow pads wrist guards etc i do ride sensible but this stuff did worry me sometime when reading these posts I've only been riding a week and loving it i have the kingsong ks16s just need to know where to send for service but i suppose it could fault anytime ? do you think the should be a second safety measure in case the wheel did fault some sort of back up

[Chriull]

36 minutes ago, stephen said:

how often would you recommend getting a service for your wheel. I've bought knee pads elbow pads wrist guards etc i do ride sensible but this stuff did worry me sometime when reading these posts I've only been riding a week and loving it i have the kingsong ks16s just need to know where to send for service

For now i would just see @Jason McNeil able to offer such a service to his (US) customers? Maybe he could give his statement with his experience? If it makes any sense at all, he'd recommend services and if so in which intervalls.

As you are in the UK - don't know if there is any reseller with an infrastructure to provide preventive service...

Quote

but i suppose it could fault anytime ? do you think the should be a second safety measure in case the wheel did fault some sort of back up

Just don't overdo high speed and high accelerations, be aware of baheviour changes of the wheel. Safety measure is just the safety gear and maybe a second wheel, so one can continue riding once one is in repair ?

I'd not worry too much with an actual wheel, driving somewhat "responsible"

[US69]

Maintenance of a EUC in europe?

I can highly recommend @1RadWerkstatt for that job!!!

They have had i guess 3 or of my wheels.....battery extension, wheel/tire change, complete motor check, bearings, rust removement etc etc!

Best garage for EUC's in my view!!!

[steve454]

11 hours ago, novazeus said:

i can see that happening on the e+. of all my wheels, the e+ has the loosest pedals, meaning they aren’t stiff at all. it’s easy to get too far forward and hard to regain balance rearwards because of such a forward tilt, resulting in an overlean. 

somebody described them as being like a carousel ride going up and down.

u gotta ride 9bots very gingerly. not much power and not much battery but easy to overlean especially coming off a more powerful wheel. noticed how the one guy was saying he was gonna have a hard time keeping up.

To be fair, that accident happened in 2015, the firmware was updated about 10 times since then.  Changes to the motor algorithims, tiltback, and other tweaks.  The latest firmware 1.4.0 has been unchanged for over a year, looks like ninebot thinks it is good enough now.

But yeah, not a high powered wheel and pretty small battery.

There might be something wrong with your E+, I can set my pedals to setting 1 and they are rock hard.  I usually use setting 3 or 4 to have a little give in the pedals because the ride is a little more comfortable.  One time I set it to setting 9 just to see how it was, and it was so mushy and loose as to be practically unrideable.

[Scatcat]

@esaj nails it. We get overconfident and then our cockiness is what makes us slam the ground like a wet rag. And even if we're a wonder of cautiousness, there is always that "environmental" situation we didn't count on. And if we're wonders of precognition when it comes to the riding environment, we can count on some other person being stupid.

Let me just recap two incidents from the last week to show how easy it is to come within a hairs breadth of an accident.

ONE

Riding home I usually go along an avenue, where there is a bike and pedestrian path side by side in the middle of the road. At regular intervals the car road crosses the pedestrian/bike roads to let cars get to their destinations. At quite a few of these, the bikes have rights of way as relates to the cars, but not at every crossing. It seems no-one bothered to tell the bikers of that little gem of a fact though. I've seen far too many close calls, where bicyclists came within inches of becoming radiator ornaments on cars.

This time the car in question checked both directions and then glided forwards crossing the path, but didn't see the idiot going 25mph on his bike looking down. The car driver noticed the idiot bike rider in time to brake, with a margin of maybe a tenth of a second. The biker noticed he was about to pancake into the car just in time to swerve and brake, with maybe a tenth of a second to spare.

Rather than stop fully and reassess his love of life and limb, he pushed the pedals right as he stopped continuing over the road, now in the wrong lane and right into the bike rider who was stopping at the other side. A bike rider that instead of his smooth stop now did a panic brake. They smashed together, but luckily at low enough speed that no damage was done. Right behind the panic braking bike rider, was I. Luckily I had seen the situation developing and started braking early enough not to create a serial by smashing into the poor guy from behind (that would have hurt him far more than me).

I missed crashing into his bike by a full feet or so...  

TWO

Riding another route home I went steeply downhill. At the bottom of the hill there are two roads leading to an overpass. I usually go straight and then turn right, but that is something of a long way around, so this time I decided to turn right first and then left to reach the overpass.

As I started my right turn, i realised three things that I should have been aware of...

1) The bloody curve had a negative camber, making the angle of the wheel very "interesting".

2) My momentum were quite a lot higher than I would have chosen, as the hill had affected my sense of speed.

3) The road I was turning into were a lot narrower than I remembered.

Let me just say the turning radius was NOT what I'm used to from my GT16. I avoided smashing into the curb by maybe two feet, and the rut at the side of the curb by less than one. My pedals on the inside was maybe half an inch of the ground, if that. Had any of those parameters been even slightly different, I would have experienced flight without wings...

That was both cockiness and environment doing their level best to f--- me over.

Edited May 26, 2018 by Scatcat

[Unventor]

2 hours ago, Scatcat said:

 

Had any of those parameters been even slightly different, I would have experienced flight without wings...

That was both cockiness and environment doing their level best to f--- me over.

@Scatcat you are drinking too much redbull, giving you wings?

And yes there are 2 things I dislike when riding. Wannabe fasttrack pro cyclist that forgot it is a public cycle path and people with dogs going about not realizing potential if their dog starts to reach to a bypasser.

[novazeus]

3 hours ago, steve454 said:

There might be something wrong with your E+

u may be right. 

i just rode my e+ after a night of charging. ran it up to 14mph with no sign of tiltback, no beeps, nothing. 

i have the pedal settings at zero and still lots of play in the pedals. it’s visible when standing still and rocking back and forth. i’ve got 6 other wheels and none are like that.

after watching these crash videos, and having 6 other wheels, makes me not want to ride it at all. 

i bought all these little wheels, 2 s1’s and the e+ in anticipation of teaching my gfs how to ride but since they can fail at any time, i’ll probably never put any of them on one. when i tell them they have to put on a full face helmet, wristguards, elbow pads, gloves, motorcycle jacket, knee pads, ankle protectors, and adequate foot protection, all i’ll see is a cloud of dust from them running away.

[Scatcat]

1 hour ago, Unventor said:

@Scatcat you are drinking too much redbull, giving you wings?

And yes there are 2 things I dislike when riding. Wannabe fasttrack pro cyclist that forgot it is a public cycle path and people with dogs going about not realizing potential if their dog starts to reach to a bypasser.

Ah, that's the solution, drinking red bull before riding!

[Duf]

 

[UKJ]

On 5/26/2018 at 10:35 AM, US69 said:

.

Esaj has said

Every wheel can fail at any time!

I would even go that far that its no question if a wheel will fail...its just a question of time!

And that has nothing to do with any kind of brand.

 

WORDS OF WISDOM!

UKJ

I am very happy I reread this now, as again start to have to much confidence, and not wearing helmet only wrist guards and going way to fast!

[Scatcat]

11 hours ago, UKJ said:

WORDS OF WISDOM!

UKJ

I am very happy I reread this now, as again start to have to much confidence, and not wearing helmet only wrist guards and going way to fast!

Learn from the experience of others. It hurts less.

[Hippvs]

On 5/26/2018 at 5:28 AM, litewave said:

This video looks suspicious: wheel looks newish, but has weird side covers with noob leg padding (einradwerkstatt mod?); foot position uneven/sloppy; pedal pitch appears to be calibrated forward; and the camera is at the ready. This was staged.

I have experienced something like that on my old 9b1 E+. It turned out to be faulty battery. I experienced several cut off, when approaching 28% of battery.
And I must say that my wheel was around 20 km only passed! Just faulty battery, and I returned wheel to seller, who confirmed my diagnosis.

[litewave]

On 9/23/2019 at 6:05 PM, Hippvs said:

I have experienced something like that on my old 9b1 E+. It turned out to be faulty battery. I experienced several cut off, when approaching 28% of battery.
And I must say that my wheel was around 20 km only passed! Just faulty battery, and I returned wheel to seller, who confirmed my diagnosis.

I made this post (after 5,000 km trouble-free on E+ batteries) but before I experienced two battery cut-out faceplants later last year - both on new Ninebot "P" batteries I purchased from Speedyfeet. I later discovered posts in the forum about P batteries being prone to cut-outs. Fortunately, no cut-outs so far on the E+ batteries I own (fingers crossed) after 8,000km. I was wrong and a little harsh in my post above, and was probably overreacting to some (wrongheaded) Ninebot bashing elsewhere on the forum.

Edited September 26, 2019 by litewave

[Hippvs]

Wow, 8000km, I'm impressed. I have only 2000km on mine (starting from March 2019).
Currently have original battery plus @1RadWerkstatt expansion kit, its about 708Wh. Works very well. 
Hope I also will make 8000 km on it, without any cut-outs.

[Vida Wang]

Oh, that was really bad injuries on your face. I hope you could find some methods to cure and get your health back soon.

 

[helmet]

Hi all. I'm new to this forum and to EUC's. I have been riding a KS-14D for a couple of months now and I found this thread. I really think it's fun, but Oh my goodness, what if I get a cut out. I have had a few falls that were not too serious, a couple falls that were really painful on my first day learning. Now that I'm proficient and enjoy my wheel so much I would feel like such a fool when I have read this thread if I got a cutout. Yet, what a loss it would be to not get to ride anymore, because it's such a good outlet for me. I had been thinking about upgrading to a Nikola, then got concerned about cutouts. I just didn't realized that there was that kind of failure that could strike at any moment. I knew it was risky, but seeing the result on a wheel that I am currently riding gives me pause. Thanks for posting this King Llama if you are still around. I hope you are okay.