Tomek Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 Historical moment, Gotway has now more posts on this forum than Ninebot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 57 minutes ago, Tomek said: Historical moment, Gotway has now more posts on this forum than Ninebot! What's a Ninebot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve454 Posted May 16, 2017 Share Posted May 16, 2017 23 hours ago, Marty Backe said: What's a Ninebot? Ha Ha! A Ninebot is the wicked witch of the west after she gets doused, and starts melting. Ohhh, I'm melting, I'm melting! No more Ninebot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted May 17, 2017 Share Posted May 17, 2017 33 minutes ago, steve454 said: Ha Ha! A Ninebot is the wicked witch of the west after she gets doused, and starts melting. Ohhh, I'm melting, I'm melting! No more Ninebot When you think about the early lead that Ninebot had, they could have totally owned the EUC market by now. I'm afraid that what they did (or didn't do) perhaps shows how small the EUC market is. It must represent such small dollars that they couldn't be interested in pursuing the small $$$ here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goodman Posted May 17, 2017 Share Posted May 17, 2017 13 minutes ago, Marty Backe said: When you think about the early lead that Ninebot had, they could have totally owned the EUC market by now. I'm afraid that what they did (or didn't do) perhaps shows how small the EUC market is. It must represent such small dollars that they couldn't be interested in pursuing the small $$$ here. EUC do well in countries and or states within the same country where it is legal to ride but most countries and or states it is illegal to ride a EUC, this puts off a lot of people already. Until this happens the market for EUC will always be very small. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab1 Posted May 17, 2017 Share Posted May 17, 2017 On 5/15/2017 at 7:44 PM, Marty Backe said: What's a Ninebot? 1 hour ago, steve454 said: Ha Ha! A Ninebot is the wicked witch of the west after she gets doused, and starts melting. Ohhh, I'm melting, I'm melting! No more Ninebot Oh no.. @Hunka Hunka Burning Love is not going to be happy! Wait a minute... my grandson has my old NB. I loved that machine! Why not pick on someone your own size! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted May 17, 2017 Share Posted May 17, 2017 Is there a race? I still like my Ninebot. It's reliable, easy to get access to the battery and controller if I ever need to, relatively light, has replaceable parts which are still sort of available, can be used for trick riding, is pretty indestructible, has removable shell covers if they get dinged up, and still looks pretty cool over all. It may not win at speed races or long distance endurance runs, but it's still a classic! Too bad Ninebot shot themselves in the foot through their business decisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted May 17, 2017 Share Posted May 17, 2017 2 hours ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said: Is there a race? I still like my Ninebot. It's reliable, easy to get access to the battery and controller if I ever need to, relatively light, has replaceable parts which are still sort of available, can be used for trick riding, is pretty indestructible, has removable shell covers if they get dinged up, and still looks pretty cool over all. It may not win at speed races or long distance endurance runs, but it's still a classic! Too bad Ninebot shot themselves in the foot through their business decisions. I really wasn't dissing Ninebot as a product. My simple statement was a reflection on how they are no longer the center of gravity in the EUC world. I'm a newbie who joined the bandwagon in mid-2016. At that time there seemed to be activity in the Ninebot sphere and I was initially looking at their products. But by then it seemed to me that KingSong and Gotway was where the action was, and I ultimately went in that direction. I think they had a 'P' model that was high performance for the time, but it had been discontinued around the time I was learning about all of this. It was probably exciting times with Ninebot prior to 2016? You guys got to live through the early days and watch all the progress real-time. Must have been fun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted May 17, 2017 Share Posted May 17, 2017 3 hours ago, Goodman said: EUC do well in countries and or states within the same country where it is legal to ride but most countries and or states it is illegal to ride a EUC, this puts off a lot of people already. Until this happens the market for EUC will always be very small. The United States is a pretty big market (>300 million people) and EUCs are legal virtually everywhere here. They haven't been doing so great here, but I think there are signs that it's growing. I'm trying to do my part in pushing their visibility. Can't wait to see what's happening in a few years here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted May 17, 2017 Share Posted May 17, 2017 I never thought you were dissing Ninebot, but even if you were they are fair game. Gotway receives it's fair share of criticism on the forums, and we all know Ninebot is no saint with their slow and poor customer service reputation in some cases. We all know the Ninebot company seems to be going the way of the dinosaurs, but when you compare the quality in general of the engineering behind the product, you have to give them some cred for putting out a pretty well created machine for the most part. They had 12 MOSFETS from the get go. Gotway started with six, ended up with burned controllers, and hence have adopted 12. Ninebot P was a disaster so each company has their highs and lows. Ninebot did have the potential to dominate the market, but likely due to so so sales and the risks of lawsuits by increasing speeds they seem to have decided to scale back and maybe take the safe road? Coming from a cheapo generic wheel, buying a Ninebot was a dream come true after seeing all the cool videos online. It's still a remarkable wheel considering some of the tricks @Jonathan Tolhurst is able to do with his. It's not the fastest or the best, but it does have it's place for people who don't need to go too fast or too far and who want a reasonably light wheel to toss around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goodman Posted May 17, 2017 Share Posted May 17, 2017 20 minutes ago, Marty Backe said: The United States is a pretty big market (>300 million people) and EUCs are legal virtually everywhere here. They haven't been doing so great here, but I think there are signs that it's growing. I'm trying to do my part in pushing their visibility. Can't wait to see what's happening in a few years here. Ah I didn't know that, I have a lot of friends who would buy one if they were able to use it legally. EUC costs a lot and to be honest there is no dealers who actually stock them for sale here, I can understand the reason if the government made them legal sales could increase dramatically. I get asked all the time and a lot of people have shown great interest had a guy chase me down the street to ask what it is and how they can get one but most people also ask is it legal. Hard to answer that question as I want more people to ride them but I don't want to lie so I ask them to research it themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tadrossi Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 Ninebot was "it" when I started.(Nov 2015) Gotway was third and kingsong was second. Gotway made a complete surge forward to the front of the pack. They focused on speed power and were putting out wheels on a consistent basis. they brought us the 84 volt wheel. Now they can focus on safety and refinement or they can lose their position as the defacto #1. Kingsong makes a fine mmachine but its Gotway making all the noise. They were a distant 3 in posts when I joined this forum. They are now the topshottaz as the Jamaicans say. Just my 2cents, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scatcat Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 What we see is a "klondyke/boom town/silicon valley/dotcom" phenomenon, where everybody and their mother wants in on the market. I think this comes from the Shenzhen-mentality - it IS a more or less tax exempt zone, where everyone is looking to become the next kroesus startup. The downside is that all the rage are the obvious selling points like speed, power, more speed, more power (damn I'm sounding like Clarkson in Top Gear). Engineering, safety, durability, reliability etcetera doesn't even come second, they come in third behind cool bleeding-edge design. This in turn means we early adopters pay way too much for wheels that won't last, and that may dump us at the most inconvenient times, like at top-speed. Compare to dirt-bikes, where such low reliability would led to bloody lawsuits or even criminal investigations. In terms of reliability we're very close to aircraft during the first quarter of the 20-century. Some of it is technically awesome, while other parts are hot-glue and whatever's available at the time for as little money as they can get away with. I'm as guilty as the next person of yearning for the strongest, fastest wheel available. Just bought a RW GT-16, that hopefully will be here in the next 10 days or so. A typical wheel of the times, with a rather lousy start in terms of reliability: burnt out boards and loose plastic dampers on the pedals. I know I'll have to start out with checking that all parts actually sits where they're supposed to... And probably check the cabling and make sure there are no loose connections... Then cross my fingers it won't suddenly dump me on my nose. It is such a beautiful nose, and I want to keep it. If we're unlucky, this mentality will be the doom of the EUC, which like the burning hover-boards doesn't need much negative publicity to get nanny-politicians to outlaw them. But if we're lucky, the next generation will focus on actual usability. Things like sane battery handling, with usable buffer power for those edge cases where current wheels think a face-plant is in order. Things like axles that can take the square of the forces we actually demand of them, that simply wont crack, even if the rider weighs in at 400 pounds.EDIT: Things like somewhere for the current to go if you go downhill with a full battery... Things like remote controlled signal horns, that you can use from your watch, your phone, or a simple hand-held remote. Things like ergonomics, relieving cramps in your legs and feet; things like fall-sensors, that won't let the wheel roll on if the rider is no longer on it. Better battery-packs, that can take the abuse. A reliable service chain, with spares that doesn't cost as much as a new wheel and that is actually available even without angels like Jason or Ian. Things like support stands, that you can lean the wheel on when it's off; better trolleys and so on. Hell, maybe even polymer coatings that won't scratch even if you let the wheel slide down K2... That, is what is needed to take the EUC from the enthusiast-niche, to a wider public. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dingfelder Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 4 hours ago, Scatcat said: But if we're lucky, the next generation will focus on actual usability. Things like sane battery handling, with usable buffer power for those edge cases where current wheels think a face-plant is in order. Things like axles that can take the square of the forces we actually demand of them, that simply wont crack, even if the rider weighs in at 400 pounds.EDIT: Things like somewhere for the current to go if you go downhill with a full battery... Things like remote controlled signal horns, that you can use from your watch, your phone, or a simple hand-held remote. Things like ergonomics, relieving cramps in your legs and feet; things like fall-sensors, that won't let the wheel roll on if the rider is no longer on it. Better battery-packs, that can take the abuse. A reliable service chain, with spares that doesn't cost as much as a new wheel and that is actually available even without angels like Jason or Ian. Things like support stands, that you can lean the wheel on when it's off; better trolleys and so on. Hell, maybe even polymer coatings that won't scratch even if you let the wheel slide down K2... That, is what is needed to take the EUC from the enthusiast-niche, to a wider public. Those are some great ideas. First and foremost I want an axle that doesn't break! I also love the idea of a remote horn, perhaps something that could be slipped into the palm section of a protective wrist guard and activated with a finger press to the palm, so it's always handy without being cumbersome. Or perhaps something that could be wrapped under a velcro strap going around the wrist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esaj Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 5 hours ago, Scatcat said: Things like sane battery handling, with usable buffer power for those edge cases where current wheels think a face-plant is in order. Things like axles that can take the square of the forces we actually demand of them, that simply wont crack, even if the rider weighs in at 400 pounds.EDIT: Things like somewhere for the current to go if you go downhill with a full battery... Things like remote controlled signal horns, that you can use from your watch, your phone, or a simple hand-held remote. Things like ergonomics, relieving cramps in your legs and feet; things like fall-sensors, that won't let the wheel roll on if the rider is no longer on it. Better battery-packs, that can take the abuse. A reliable service chain, with spares that doesn't cost as much as a new wheel and that is actually available even without angels like Jason or Ian. Things like support stands, that you can lean the wheel on when it's off; better trolleys and so on. Hell, maybe even polymer coatings that won't scratch even if you let the wheel slide down K2... That, is what is needed to take the EUC from the enthusiast-niche, to a wider public. Good ideas, some of those have been in some wheels, but usually only one... -Gotway MSuper V2's (and MCM2/MCM2s?) had the horn in the app, don't know about the newer ones. It could also be activated by simply sending character "b" to the Bluetooth-connection (Old BT V2, not LE), so maybe a small, battery-powered hand-held device could have been made -At least F-wheel Dolphins had a kick stand that folded under the pedal -Some German guys built a brake-chopper for the KS16 (or maybe it was 14), that dumps braking power to a pair of 100W LEDs in series when the voltage goes above battery max, but that's pure DIY -At least the fabled Uniwheels supposedly have sensors to detect if the rider isn't standing there anymore, don't know about others... The pedals have been getting better, but probably could be still better (at least larger/longer?). From a technical and design standpoint, I'd think maybe Solowheel Xtreme could probably be the most reliable and "over-engineered" one, being designed in USA (and Made In China), but it comes at a price: the wheel costs >$2000, has something like 160Wh battery capacity (or maybe it was 240Wh, some "low-value" by nowadays standard anyway) and the max speed was 20km/h or maybe even lower... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scatcat Posted May 20, 2017 Share Posted May 20, 2017 7 hours ago, esaj said: Good ideas, some of those have been in some wheels, but usually only one... -Gotway MSuper V2's (and MCM2/MCM2s?) had the horn in the app, don't know about the newer ones. It could also be activated by simply sending character "b" to the Bluetooth-connection (Old BT V2, not LE), so maybe a small, battery-powered hand-held device could have been made -At least F-wheel Dolphins had a kick stand that folded under the pedal -Some German guys built a brake-chopper for the KS16 (or maybe it was 14), that dumps braking power to a pair of 100W LEDs in series when the voltage goes above battery max, but that's pure DIY -At least the fabled Uniwheels supposedly have sensors to detect if the rider isn't standing there anymore, don't know about others... The pedals have been getting better, but probably could be still better (at least larger/longer?). From a technical and design standpoint, I'd think maybe Solowheel Xtreme could probably be the most reliable and "over-engineered" one, being designed in USA (and Made In China), but it comes at a price: the wheel costs >$2000, has something like 160Wh battery capacity (or maybe it was 240Wh, some "low-value" by nowadays standard anyway) and the max speed was 20km/h or maybe even lower... Yeah, the Solowheel Xtreme... seems the most xtreme part of it is the price. Saw a ride video, and it seems nice enough considering it has no battery capacity (196Wh) and no speed (22 kmh max). A "kickstand" doesn't have to be like on a bicycle. Look at the Inmotion V3, where the simple addition of a resting bumper means the wheel can balance reasonably well when turned off. You just let it down on the bumper and it is just wide enough to make the wheel stand safely. I'm pretty sure it is simple enough to design a solution that lets you safely rest your wheel without an external stand – since an amateur like me can think of two or three designs out of hand. A cooled resistor or high power LEDs for overvoltage should really be a standard measure to handle regenerative breaking when the cells are at full voltage. It is such a bloody simple and cheap solution, so there is no real excuse why it isn't generally implemented. NOT having it is an accident waiting to happen. A BT-/RF-horn, probably with at small remote on a flexible string you can have around your hand or your finger should be a slam dunk. Such tech is dirt cheap, and a super aftermarket opportunity for all those that want some extra bling. It could double as a vibrator to warn of trouble like overspeeding, high temps or other cut-off risks – for those that seem to be deaf to the beeps. While I'm on it, why the f--- do wheels let you run without warning when electrical parts are getting closer than 5% to their designed maximum temperature or power? Killing or maiming paying customers seems so counterproductive... A simple warning that you're on the edge would avoid some of the more stupid accidents. To distinguish it from the speed alarms, make it a warble. A sensor if the rider isn't on should probably be compared to wheel speed. So it won't cut-off just because someone is trying to do a jumping trick. All pedals, maybe excepting the new GW-pedals, seem to be made for shoe-size 34. For me that currently means the front of my pedal is somewhere at the balls of my feet. Since my right foot is flat, that in turn means almost instant cramps – even with extra support inside the shoe. I have to step off every couple of kilometers to let my right foot recover for a few seconds. It is really ridiculous, since the solution is so bloody simple - make the pedal at least 10" on the inside and at least 8-9" on the outside. That would solve the problems up to shoe-size 44 or so, while not looking ridiculously large. Axles that can take a lot more than the max rider weight is such a "duh"-decision, that I really don't get what the designers are doing. Not only do they accept axles that are far too narrow considering there is no suspension whatsoever, they even machine part of the axle to give a pedal rest making them even weaker. Those riders going down stairs must have a death-wish. So wider, stronger axles, and securing the pedals to the shell should be in order. The shell btw should be beefy enough, and in a material that can take some of the strain of the axle. All the things missing are signs of just how frantically the makers try to claim a part of the market. They cut corners in the damnedest of places. Usually in the areas not "sexy" enough to go into the sales-pitch. To some extent they're their own worst enemies: usability, safety, reliability, practicality, all those are the parts they're messing with, and all those are the parts that are crucial to make the EUC an accepted phenomenon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.