meepmeepmayer Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 Hi everybody, I'm a guy from Germany who recently learned of the existence of electric unicycles and now I want one! Badly It's like a bike, just so much better! No sweating, just step on it and flyyyyy away! So nice... After some research, the Inmotion V8 seems to be a great model (and company) and I almost ordered it. But I have second thoughts if it's right for my use case (or rather, what I imagine I'd use it for - I have zero experience with EUCs, I could be totally wrong). Here's what it should do ideally: 1. I would like to go up hills (or rather mountains), because they're nice. No narrow, winding hiking paths (mostly), but think paved or (firm, good) dirt/gravel/farm roads with possibly some noticable incline. Something which might be quite exhausting with a mountainbike. Some examples (I'm dreaming a little with the first one): https://www.google.de/search?q=grossglockner+hochalpenstrasse&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiHmt_tmsPRAhXIEiwKHfm2C_gQ_AUICSgC&biw=1920&bih=971 https://www.google.de/search?q=alm+strasse&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjDw9LynMPRAhXGdCwKHSGzCtoQ_AUICSgC&biw=1920&bih=971 https://www.google.de/search?q=alm+weg&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjm7tj8nMPRAhVFFSwKHV8mAmoQ_AUICSgC&biw=1920&bih=971 So, strength and endurance is the #1 thing. 2. Locally it would be mostly flat terrain, 50% paved and 50% farm roads, with the occasional forest footpath 3. If possible, I want to go in the rain or snow (no mud or something bad like that, just wet weather, wet leaves, wet pavement and so on) Here's what I don't care about: ultra high speeds (25 kmh/15 mph is almost too fast already) doing tricks bluetooth speakers, LEDs, ... despite the bike comparisons, it's not a replacement for a bike (city driving, commuting etc.), purely a relaxing leisure device for nature use (though maybe it will replace the bike in some situations) I know going up hills and mountains needs a lot of energy and is going to eat battery like crazy.. Maybe wanting to use a EUC for that is just unrealistic? 1 hour battery life in these circumstances would be enough though (longer is of course better, but I guess 1 hour is asking too much already). Maybe EUCs are just more fun to use in the flat, on paved roads, and they're ill-suited for the entire offroad/mountain idea? I chose the Inmotion V8 because I didn't want to go lower power-wise. But it might be too weak, also I'm worried about wet weather with this beauty. So, here's where I need your help to get more realistic ideas of what is possible and what I should actually care about with my first EUC. I never tried one, after all. Maybe I just end up going on flat, paved roads and loving it? Max cost is 1500€ (same number in USD) - I'd really like to stay closer to 1000, but up to 1500 is ok. Any higher cost, I'd just go for the Inmotion V8 as a can't-go-wrong-with-this first EUC. It's a very nice model already! Then, if I really like EUCing but the V8 is too weak for me, I can get something significantly stronger (and more expensive I'm afraid) later when I have more experience (4000€ Gotway Monster lol, no, but I'd take one for free certainly...) My weight is max 85 kg (190 lbs) with everything (clothes, backpack,...) Hope to hear your input and where I'm unrealistic or just plain wrong. Any recommendations on other models in the below 1500 range that could suit me better? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
who_the Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 Welcome! My Inmotion V8 is capable of handling my 12-mile roundtrip commute up and over some of San Francisco's biggest hills on a single charge with some room to spare. But, my KingSong 14C could do the same thing – twice. On a single charge. I also find the KS-14C motor to be somewhat stronger up the steepest of hills. Though you've got a good 30 lbs on me. And, second "but," when pushed continually up extremely long, steep grades, especially in hot weather, the KS-14C can overheat. I have not yet pushed the V8 up the same hills with the same duration. (The hill in question was not in San Francisco, it was in Guerneville, Northern California.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slaughthammer Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 You might want to consider the Gotway ACM V2 820 Wh, which has a substatially larger battery than the V8 (480 Wh), currently offered at 1390€ from Slovakia... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 Hy, if you want much of hill traveling I would DEFINITELY advice for a bigger batterie wheel... you can contact Me in German language for some tips, sellers and experience! i would go for a ACM 820 or Ks16!!! grüsse ausm Ruhrpott! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddylaz Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 Can't go wrong with any of the suggestions that have been made. I'd personally go with the V8, but you're on the right track either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Otal Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 In my opinion, it is always better not to go to maximum power, it is very likely that when you take confidence with the wheel, your cruise speed will be 30 to 35 kh, gotway ACM 820w or Msuper3 820w run at 45 kh and you do not need to force To the maximum in the case of choosing a more weak wheel, a good reserve of power to go to a conservative ridmo by the hills and to avoid the motor overheating, it is advisable to go left of power, I have the ninebot e + but it is little powerful, But if it is very controllable by its wheel of 16 inches, so I have the gotway Msuper 18 and for long ways and distances in much better, today I would buy the ACM 820 that can see in the video, in aliexpres you can find it for 1300 euros Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted January 16, 2017 Author Share Posted January 16, 2017 Thanks everybody for your answers! You were very helpful and I was researching stuff all day yesterday. I get it now, motor power (W) = max speed (roughly), and Wh is simply battery capacity. More questions: 1. Are there downsides to using a higher powered motor for medium speed riding? Is there a difference between going the same speed with a higher or lower powered motor (500W vs 1500W for example)? Maybe one is more efficient than the other? Or maybe going slow(ish) with a high speed EUC is a worse experience than going slow with a medium speed EUC? 2. Do the batteries reload when you go downhill or brake? Can you compute the range/time if you divide Wh by W or is it more complicated and you have to go by real world measurement (because reloading and whatnot)? --- I was looking at the Gotway ACM V2 (and the msupers) and it is basically perfect but it has a really loud high pitched motor whine (the msuper even more) which is a deal breaker I don't think I can live with that, any input on that? You clearly hear it even in the youtube videos. The V8, in comparison, seems to be very good sound/whine wise. --- So now I'm researching the Kingsong models, KS16 looks good for now... --- @who_the Though you've got a good 30 lbs on me. (sorry can't get quote into edit) Who of us is lighter now? Language is a funny thing I assume you mean I'm lighter? On 15.1.2017 at 4:05 PM, Paddylaz said: I'd personally go with the V8, but you're on the right track either way. Just curious, why? A better beginner overall package? Personal preference? Intuition? @Jose Otal (sorry I could not quote you without having the youtube embed again) That's a really good comment, see the 1st question above. Thanks again everyone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddylaz Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 2 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said: Just curious, why? A better beginner overall package? Personal preference? Intuition? Two reasons: 1) Aesthetically, I think it's (by an order of magnitude) the best looking of the high-powered wheels. And you stated in your post that high-power was something of a priority. 2) If you go for the V8, buy it from Jason. You should buy a wheel that has an excellent customer-service platform behind it. You want someone with excellent TECHNICAL knowledge who at anytime you can have DIRECT contact with. As far as electric unicycles are concerned...only two people fit this profile: Ian (for ninebots) and Jason (Inmotion, Kingsong). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted January 16, 2017 Author Share Posted January 16, 2017 Wow that was fast. I was just thinking, if I'm going KS16 Jason (I assume it's the ewheels/wheelgo.com guy) has that too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddylaz Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 10 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said: Wow that was fast. I was just thinking, if I'm going KS16 Jason (I assume it's the ewheels/wheelgo.com guy) has that too. Lol yeah I can't sleep so cruising the net until the eyes start to get heavy Yeah in that case....if you heart is set on it, go for the KS16. I consider Inmotion to be the top-dog right now. They have the perfect balance of aesthetic and tech. AND safety. Plus as I already said, you should buy from someone who offers the right benchmark of support. I suggested the V8 simply because I think it's better looking. But yeah go for the KS16 if you prefer it. Your judgement seems pretty good already so you can't really go wrong with any of the options you're considering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted January 17, 2017 Author Share Posted January 17, 2017 Nono I'm researching the KS, I have made no decision at all. Still sad about the coil whine (or motor whine?) of the Gotways... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xebeche Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 1 hour ago, meepmeepmayer said: I was looking at the Gotway ACM V2 (and the msupers) and it is basically perfect but it has a really loud high pitched motor whine (the msuper even more) which is a deal breaker I don't think I can live with that, any input on that? You clearly hear it even in the youtube videos. The V8, in comparison, seems to be very good sound/whine wise. --- So now I'm researching the Kingsong models, KS16 looks good for now... But the Kingsong models also all have the same high pitch noise as Gotways: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddylaz Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 13 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said: Nono I'm researching the KS, I have made no decision at all. Still sad about the coil whine (or motor whine?) of the Gotways... In that case, go V8. I personally own the V5f+. It's the best wheel I've ever ridden....and the best app-wheel interaction too. It's NOT likely powerful enough for your needs though hence me suggesting the V8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve454 Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 5 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said: sad about the coil whine (or motor whine?) of the Gotways... I think it is not as loud as it seems in the videos, a lot of them are using a selfie stick held low and close to the wheel. I bet it is not nearly as loud to someone 6 feet away. I like the whine, it sounds futuristic in a way, and powerful, kind of like a jet engine. Some people hate it, for some people it is a selling point. It would be good to find someone with a Gotway and listen to it first hand, not on video. There is a store in Germany that sells them, maybe you could check it out. And as @xebeche just pointed out, Kingsong whines also. People on the forum complained about Ninebot making a whine when the latest firmware was installed, It was a little more noticeable, but only if there was no ambient noise, maybe my hearing is not good in that range, but I even wished it was a little louder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 Your initial thought of going with an ACM is perfect, IMHO. I do a lot of mountain riding (see some of the videos that I've posted here showing lots of paved and unpaved mountain riding), and the ACM has never let me down. Given its weight, size, and motor capacity it can probably climb more powerfully than any other wheel. The whining from the motor is a total non-issue. You can hear it in my videos, but the camera is at ground level about a foot away. Trust me, you can barely hear it and you quickly forget about it. Not to mention once you start going more than 15 km/h the wind noise blocks anything else. I have approaching 1600 km on the ACM and it's still my favorite wheel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted January 17, 2017 Author Share Posted January 17, 2017 I literally just found out the KS are whining too, thanks everyone for pointing it out! And the video clearly shows you can hear the whine from a bit afar. I'm quite annoyed by ultra high sound (not the motor "power" sound but the very high whine that old people maybe cannot hear), I hate it when electronics (phone chargers, roomba charger etc) do that! I'lll have to think about how important it's to me. Right now I don't like the Kingsong models that much (not sure why though, maybe tomorrow that has changed - and less pricy) so it's down to: ACM V2: +++ perfect for outdoors, high capacity battery --- that whine, a little low on "sophistication"/extras (e.g. no retractable handle) Inmotion V8: +++ really good overall (app, handle, everything), with no whine (I believe) --- battery capacity at lower end for me (or maybe not ), maybe not so good for bad weather, snow etc I'll have to think about it some more. edit: just in case I go for the Gotway ACM V2, any tips where I should buy that? Is there a recommended distributor for that (EU/Germany)? 55 minutes ago, Marty Backe said: Your initial thought of going with an ACM is perfect, IMHO. I do a lot of mountain riding (see some of the videos that I've posted here showing lots of paved and unpaved mountain riding), and the ACM has never let me down. Given its weight, size, and motor capacity it can probably climb more powerfully than any other wheel. The whining from the motor is a total non-issue. You can hear it in my videos, but the camera is at ground level about a foot away. Trust me, you can barely hear it and you quickly forget about it. Not to mention once you start going more than 15 km/h the wind noise blocks anything else. I have approaching 1600 km on the ACM and it's still my favorite wheel. Great info, and great videos btw! Your ACM and msuper comparison video is my #1 goto for whine check (the other EUC videos are nice too, haven't seen everything). I even considered the msuper but that whines even more. What is that mini arm on your helmet? Rear view mirror? Microphone? Small camera? I was wondering, other people have that too (in their yt videos) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 10 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said: <snip> What is that mini arm on your helmet? Rear view mirror? Microphone? Small camera? I was wondering, other people have that too (in their yt videos) It's a mirror to help with my situational awareness. Love it. Here's a review I put on YouTube: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
houseofjob Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 @meepmeepmayer IMHO, the most important factor here is your body weight. It has been well documented on this forum how riders 200 lbs. or more have had issues with EUCs lacking proper cooling, prompting the wheel to overheat. This is why recently, EUC companies like KingSong, Gotway, and now the new and improved Rockwheel revamped line have started to implement different cooling methods, like increasing control board MOSFET count (Gotway ACMv2, MSuper3 series), incorporating board fans (KingSong KS-16B, KS-18A, Gotway Monster), implementing bigger heatsinks, or possibly soon, liquid cooling (rumoured Rockwheel 18-inch feature). While I love the InMotion V5 & V8 wheels and agree with the majority of the opinions here, I would personally be hesitant to recommend them to a rider at your 190 lbs. riding weight due to the issue above, especially if you will be stressing the wheel with a lot of uphill climbs, especially unpaved. (in my exprience, InMotion boards only have 1-3 MOSFETs with no fans or substantially big heatsinks). Unfortunately, that leaves only the EUCs that whine (Gotway, KingSong, Rockwheel) = (. I also prefer no whine, but like previously said, you tend to only hear it when idle. Another consideration: for inclement weather (rain, snow) and / or unpaved, irregular terrain, while most recent EUCs of all sizes can all travel almost anywhere in any moderate conditions, these conditions are far better when you have increased traction. This is why, in these situations, I prefer larger and wider tires (18" x 2.5" tires like on the MSuper3 line or KS-18A, or even better, the new Gotway Monster 22" x 2.75"). Wider tires give you more surface area against the road for more traction, and bigger tire sizes in general tend to have deeper tread for increased grip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
who_the Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 I concur with @Marty Backe's helmet mirror, I use one as well (CycleAware Reflex) and wouldn't ride in traffic without it. @meepmeepmayer Sorry for the colloquial English. I believe you outweigh me. And to all regarding motor noise, my V8 definitely emits a distinctive motorized sound, hardly silent but not bothersome to me. My KS-14C does as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
houseofjob Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 33 minutes ago, who_the said: And to all regarding motor noise, my V8 definitely emits a distinctive motorized sound, hardly silent but not bothersome to me. My KS-14C does as well. It's been well covered here on the forums, but PWM noise is not mechanical EUC noise. Wheels like KingSong & Gotway emit a high frequency PWM noise due to how those companies tune their brushless motors. PWM noise is heard only when the wheel is powered on, regardless of motion, ie. noise is heard when stationary. The V8 noise is a completely different and mechanical one, heard when the tire is moving, regardless of being powered on (you can hear it in quiet environments when rolling around the powered-off V8 via the trolley). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 gotway (and other brands) in germany: electro-sport.de best seller(in Germany) ever! doing video reviews on youtube under the name "great 850" auf deutsch :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted January 18, 2017 Author Share Posted January 18, 2017 23 hours ago, houseofjob said: @meepmeepmayer IMHO, the most important factor here is your body weight. (...) That entire post was very helpful! 20 hours ago, who_the said: @meepmeepmayer Sorry for the colloquial English. I believe you outweigh me. Haha, good to know, I was just wondering if your original comment meant I'm more lucky than you or not regarding weight for EUCs. Offtopic, but out of interest: could your sentence be interpreted (in proper grammar) the opposite way (having something on someone means being better off right?) or is there only one interpretation for a native english speaker? (it means having more of something) - All the weight comments make me thing the V8 might be borderline too weak for me. It's so pretty though. I can now understand why some people here just order both if they have to make a decision 20 hours ago, houseofjob said: It's been well covered here on the forums, but PWM noise is not mechanical EUC noise. Wheels like KingSong & Gotway emit a high frequency PWM noise due to how those companies tune their brushless motors. PWM noise is heard only when the wheel is powered on, regardless of motion, ie. noise is heard when stationary. The V8 noise is a completely different and mechanical one, heard when the tire is moving, regardless of being powered on (you can hear it in quiet environments when rolling around the powered-off V8 via the trolley). So that's the source. I was wondering if low quality "mainboard" parts are to blame (when PC graphics cards coil whine, it's because of cheap capacitors on the PCB). So the motor itself does that. 16 hours ago, KingSong69 said: electro-sport.de best seller(in Germany) ever! doing video reviews on youtube under the name "great 850" auf deutsch :-) I did see them, nice! The Berlin shop seems good too. - @Marty Backe Can I ask you some questions about ACM vs msuper? (I would go ACM V2 of these two but I'm curious) 1. Your ACM is 16 inch, your msuper is 18. Does that make a significant difference in how it feels to ride them? In your group ride video (watched the entire thing) you said you would rather do such a tour in an 18 inch wheel so I was wondering why exactly? Is an 18 more stable on long rides (easier/less tiring)? 2. You have a 680 Wh ACM, and you said you should have gone with the bigger one (820). What are your thoughts about the 1600 Wh ACM (I know there is no V2 with that and even if there was it would be more $$$), would you rather have 820 or 1600 Wh? Can't wait to see your monster video(s) (I believe you ordered one, congratulations lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted January 18, 2017 Author Share Posted January 18, 2017 Sorry this is a useless post I did something wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 1 hour ago, meepmeepmayer said: <snip> @Marty Backe Can I ask you some questions about ACM vs msuper? (I would go ACM V2 of these two but I'm curious) 1. Your ACM is 16 inch, your msuper is 18. Does that make a significant difference in how it feels to ride them? In your group ride video (watched the entire thing) you said you would rather do such a tour in an 18 inch wheel so I was wondering why exactly? Is an 18 more stable on long rides (easier/less tiring)? 2. You have a 680 Wh ACM, and you said you should have gone with the bigger one (820). What are your thoughts about the 1600 Wh ACM (I know there is no V2 with that and even if there was it would be more $$$), would you rather have 820 or 1600 Wh? Can't wait to see your monster video(s) (I believe you ordered one, congratulations lol) I would say that there is a significant difference between the ACM and MSuper, both being great wheels. I'm not sure which video that is but I think it's an earlier one before I had a lot of experience with the MSuper. I have since sold my ACM and bought an 820wh version of the ACM. With hundreds of miles on both wheels now, I can say my favorite is the ACM. It really can do it all and feels like a real smooth machine as I ride it. I'm tempted to sell my ACM again (God help me) and buy the 1300wh 84v version of the ACM, for the additional power and much longer range. For long rides I actually find that the MSuper can be a little more tiring depending on how windy it is. It's a bigger wheel and I think it acts a little like a sail in the wind, so you have to fight it more (does anyone else think the same thing?). The MSuper might be best for dirt trail riding. I'm certainly glad that I can own both, but now I would pick the ACM if I could only own one wheel. When I get the Monster I will be taking it into the mountains and testing it's climbing and handling capabilities (video to follow). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted January 18, 2017 Author Share Posted January 18, 2017 @Marty Backe Thanks so much for your continuing input. Your comments really helped regarding the ACM whine and they show it's a great EUC overall. I'm still not fully decided (the V8 is just so nice too) but it's probably going to be the ACM V2 @Marty Backe edit How long to load the ACM? Off to looking at more youtube vdeos of the ACM and V8... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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