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Issue with rockwheel gt16 (v2)


Pierre G
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Hi everyone ! 

So first of all I would like to thanks this forum's community :  thanks to all of you I learn a lot about EUC and after a lot of reading I decided to buy a rockwheel gt16 (v2) 858wh. So thanks to all of you (especially to Scatcat for all of the topics talking about the gt16).

- excuse me for my english it's not my mother tongue - 

I moved recently to LA and in order to go to work I then decide to buy this EUC wich combine an attractive price w/ a good speed and a good range. Because it was my first EUC experience I have practiced a lot on a parking lot during 2-3 weeks to get able to control the beast. I first started with the walking mode and set the speed limit at 25km/h. After 1 week I set the speed limit at 40km/h (first beep at 40, second at 41) and I have never exceeded this speed since. After 3 weeks I started to go at work everydays and everything was fine. I start to learn some basic trick (e.g. pendulumn...) and I was always aware of  the GT16's beeps (especially when the battery was running out, I was slowing down). I even install a speedometer app on my phone with an alarm set up at 43km/h, in case of i couldn't hear the beeping (because yes, these beeps are not loud enough especially when you wear a helmet ! - plz for the next version make those beeps louder plz !). The only thing I found annoying was that I had to put my feet really forward because the pedals where a bit small. Btw, because I knew that the tiltback could be really surprising (and quite dangerous) the first week of practicing I even set up the tilt back at a really low speed to experience it. 

So, long story short, 3 days ago I was going back to my home at a classic speed (around 30-40km/h). This was the first day than I set up my unicycle in "playing mode" (after some practice in that mode). The battery was more than 80% charged and I'm sure (according to the absence of beeping or alarm coming from my iphone speedometer) that my speed wasn't superior to 43km/h at any time. The bicycle lane was the same one I used everyday (without bumps & quite recent...) but after few miles the tiltback suddently goes on ! Obviously I fell off and I burned + skinned both hands rather badly + got a stiff neck during 3 days (hopefully i was wearing a Bell Sanction BMX/Downhill Helmet + knee protections and a leather jacket but i forgot my gloves at work this time....that's my bad).  Without those protection I could be dead (I fell head first) and I know what I'm talking about since I'm use to do mountain biking. Last but not least my -almost brand new- gt16 is still (miraculously) working but the the front shell + the front lamp are completely broken . 

So there is 2 bottom lines of this :

1) what is the point of having this kind of feature (the tiltback) !!! It's all but useful (even at really low speed I was not able to avoid a fall...) so a tiltback to slow down yes, why not, but THAT???!!! It's way too sudden/rapid and i would say that it's incomprehensible and moreover unconscious ! It's should be way more progressive !  

2) Why did the tilt back start?? The speed that I set up for this sh.. was 55km/h, to be sure that it will not be activated when I'm riding (i double check after i fall).. My only explanation is that it's come from the "playing mode" that I set instead of walking mode, but it could not be a reasonable explanation, right ? I'm thinking of some kind of bug/glitch coming from the motherboard but I do not have any explanation... And it was not raining (it's LA...) so it could not be some waterproof issue. Moreover it's really annoying because except that I was really happy w/ this product.

Does somebody has any explanation ? I do not want to fall again for sure :S ...

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Welcome @Pierre G

Ad 1: yes - tiltback is programmed very poorly for all/most of the EUCs. The higher the acceleration into the limit, the more dangerous the tiltback kicks in!  Don't know if gt16 tiltback is especielly fierce? Anyhow - (strong) accelerations at higher speeds are by this and by the max torque over speed curve a bad idea - so the faster one drives the less (more carefull) one should accelerate to prevent tiltbacks of death/overleans!

Ad 2)

Tiltbacks can come by several reasons: overheating, ?some kind of overpower?, Overvoltage (going downhill with full batteries), low batteries and the user set speed limit.

So with stronger accelerations the tiltback can come at lower speeds by either overheating (if the wheel was already "burdened" before), voltage sag by the imminent burden from this acceleration (low voltage warning even if thr battery was at 80%) or this "overpower" warning.

If you did not accelerate while this incident just overheating, some "not so good wiring/connection cause", battery probs, firmware glitch/fault, etc should be left as reason...

Wrist guards are much more recommendable than just gloves!

Inclines, headwind, etc summ up with acceleration.

Using an app to log your ride like wheellog (android) or gyrometrics/darknessbot (iphone) can help identifying the cause for such incidents. (Not 100% sure if all of them support gt16)

For more details on overleans you can take a look at 

 

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Sorry to hear of your accident and injuries. 

Last year when I reported on my violent tilt episodes some people told me I must have imagined it or various other scenarios that did not apply. Yes folks, it's real.  You've had several good answers so far. The truth is in there somewhere. Unfortunately you'll never know for sure. Bottom line: slow down. You're riding on a one wheeled self balancing machine, built in China, at as low a cost as possible. 

Lastly

Get some wrist guards for god's sake. Surely in all your reading you heard them mentioned once or three hundred times?

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@Chriull thanks for your really detailed explanations. I think you'r completely right it's probably something due to my acceleration because i was just accelerating at that time -after a STOP sign (the road was flat btw). And moreover because the GT16 is really more reactive in the playing mode, I think I just accelerated to quickly, because I was used to set it on "walking mode" which does not allow those accelerations. 

@Tomek & @Smoother thanks for the advices. For sure I will be more careful in the future & I will set a different speed limit (at 30-35km/h).

On the other hand, I  know it's kind of new way of transportation and moreover I knew that Rockwheel is a company that ofen experiment differents concepts of wheel or electric bikes&personal electric way of transportation. But because I think those way of transportation will be more and more democratized, those constructors (even if there are in China..) should include a much more detailed & clear product description sheet with clear recommendations. For example I heard that in the next version (v3) of the gt16 the wheel will be able to reach 70km/h !! In my opinion this run for speed is really not a good idea because one time some child or even adults will die obviously. Especially since many people do not even wear helmets ... So if those way of transportation are more and more used peoples should also be more and more aware about the potential risks. I was lucky to have already experienced some falls on my mountains bikes but people without any experiences aren't ofen wearing protections... 

Ps. I have wrist guards and gloves actually, but I forgot to take them when i leave my work that day.... It was really stupid of me yeah ! 

Thanks again to all of you ! 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Thanks for your creds to me. I'm sorry you had such a bad tilt-back experience.

If this was one of your first times going from "walking mode" to "playing mode" I am not really surprised you got a tilt-back. The "playing mode" is rather aggressive as modes in EUC goes, so it is rather easy to push the power above 80% pretty quickly. Personally I've hit tilt-back because of that at least a handfull of times, but as I know what to expect it has not affected my balance at all.

One thing I can recommend, is trying out the playing mode at lower speeds on a parkin lot. Set the tilt-back to 15-20kph rather than 45kph and experience it at speeds where you won't fall on you nose out of surprise. Then push it gradually upwards until you feel confident getting a tilt-back at speed without losing your balance. Compared to other brands the tilt-back is not that violent, but unless you know what's happening and how to compensate, it can be scary or even cause an accident.

But the alternative of hitting 101% power and getting a total cut-off at 45kph+ is quite a lot worse.

Safe speeds for the GT16V2 have been stated as:

  • 100% battery = 35-40 kph
  • 80% battery = 30-35 kph
  • 60% battery = 25-30 kph
  • 40% battery = 20-25 kph

Note that these are not "top speeds" at different charge, but rather the range where you're "unlikely" to push beyond 80% under normal riding conditions.

The fastest I have gone so far is 43kph at 90-100% charge, and the lowest speed where I've hit 80% power tilt-back is 25kph (did push the acceleration like a total maniac).

I weigh in at 90kg.

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  • 3 weeks later...

this is why i buy a gotway instead ;)

i was coming from a mini pro with tiltback at 18 kph :wacko:

and that wasnt fun i got faceplanted just because the tiltback and day to day i experienced trying to cross the road then a car came i sped up and then the tiltback stopped me in the middle of the road and then i lean hard foard to get over but then it just applies 2x tiltback :furious:

wich leaves me to almost fall off then i take it and i run.. :furious: DEATH TO TILBACK

i couldnt ven start to imagine it at 40 kph -_-

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20 minutes ago, WaveCut said:

@Shad0z You better think what you prefer more - tiltback and run or overlean and break your face/hands.

tilt back at speeds over 25Kph, if you don't manage to stay on, also results in a face plant, or a butt plant, depending on at which point of the tilt back you get ejected.  I've done, both, I don't have a preference.

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1 hour ago, WaveCut said:

@Shad0z You better think what you prefer more - tiltback and run or overlean and break your face/hands.

well i just keep below the beeps:) 

instead of being forcebly slowed down or thrown off

when its about self balancing the user has to be in full 

control. just the smallest action done by the user that 

the device doesn't respond to is fatal

for example you lean forward while speeding

then you accidentally hit the tiltback speed and the wheel forces your legs backward and then your brain reacts (approx 0.3 seconds) by this time its too late and your center of gravity is behind the point of balance and you fall backwards...

Fresh Paint-2018.01.25-03.01.36 (2).jpg

Edited by Shad0z
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7 hours ago, Shad0z said:

well i just keep below the beeps:) 

instead of being forcebly slowed down or thrown off

when its about self balancing the user has to be in full 

control. just the smallest action done by the user that 

the device doesn't respond to is fatal

for example you lean forward while speeding

then you accidentally hit the tiltback speed and the wheel forces your legs backward and then your brain reacts (approx 0.3 seconds) by this time its too late and your center of gravity is behind the point of balance and you fall backwards...

Fresh Paint-2018.01.25-03.01.36 (2).jpg

Where did you get my picture?

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17 minutes ago, Smoother said:

That's a picture of me.

On your Kingsong 14c,

hitting tiltback as fast as can be.  ;)  I remember you mentioning it in a post a few days ago, how violent the tiltback is on the Kingsong.

Edited by steve454
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7 hours ago, Smoother said:

Exactly, right before I land on my ass and sprain my wrist.

i will definetly not touch tiltback on my tesla. in that way gotways are actually safer than other wheels B)

i think to make tiltback great again i think it could be a good idea to implement setting for the intensity the tiltback

to make it more of a "feedback"

instead of your electric unicycle turning into an electric rodeo and throwing you off

and then you lay there. seeing your expensive wheel crashing into the asphalt...

 

Edited by Shad0z
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18 hours ago, WaveCut said:

@Shad0z You better think what you prefer more - tiltback and run or overlean and break your face/hands.

its called. helmet and wristguards

and you end up faceplanting anyways while having tiltback turned on it doesnt prevent a cut out tiltback uses power in itself so if youre on the edge of cut out then tiltback then you can cut out just because of the tiltback

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8 minutes ago, Tomek said:

i have tiltback at 38kmph. hit it almost every time i ride. also no issues whatsoever,.

good to hear other having good experience with tiltback

i just think its needed to disable it 

because some people its a disaster for others it is fine

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14 hours ago, Shad0z said:

good to hear other having good experience with tiltback

i just think its needed to disable it 

because some people its a disaster for others it is fine

I don’t know about gotway, isn’t there s way to set a low tilt back speed and get used to it? As soon as your muscle memory knows it, there’s no big drama.

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2 hours ago, Scatcat said:

I don’t know about gotway, isn’t there s way to set a low tilt back speed and get used to it? As soon as your muscle memory knows it, there’s no big drama.

yes there is i can set it from i think it is 4 kph to 48kph

i have very bad experience with tiltback from my mini pro

*light turns green* you drive then car is trying to turn and you speed up then you end up being stopped to about 13 kph from 18kph

then you lean foward and makes tiltback x2

and you are in a complete standstill like the euc picture i drawn above

and i have tried the gotway it isnt as agressive but i just dont like the feeling of being forced backwards especially not above 25 kph

 

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2 hours ago, Shad0z said:

yes there is i can set it from i think it is 4 kph to 48kph

i have very bad experience with tiltback from my mini pro

*light turns green* you drive then car is trying to turn and you speed up then you end up being stopped to about 13 kph from 18kph

then you lean foward and makes tiltback x2

and you are in a complete standstill like the euc picture i drawn above

and i have tried the gotway it isnt as agressive but i just dont like the feeling of being forced backwards especially not above 25 kph

 

I only expirienced a harsh tiltback once with my ninebot e+ - accelerating too fast and forgetting the 20 km/h limit. It also came in two steps - since i managed to stay on the wheel it saved me, without i would have faceplanted soon after this...

Since then i never ever let this happen again. Also not with my ks16 with 30 and now 35km/h limit (highest tiltback possible, not to be turned off). It beeps at this speed too and i get from time to time a slight tiltback feeling - i just don't accelerate at this speeds anymore...

Hope my "learning holds" on - this experience was already quite some tine ago..

Edit: slight accelerations at high speeds near the limit == safe == only slight easy tiltbacks as warning. High accelerations at high speeds == tiltback of death :ph34r: and/or faceplants

Edited by Chriull
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its not that I usually ride at 40-50 kph

but I like to have the option both for fun and if I have to hurry up when the light changes to red and I'm in the middle of the road

I usually like to ride at 25-35kph the reason I got a gotway was so had the possibility to go fast at times

not faster than when its on 80% power beeps I try to stay well below that

but I just dont like the feeling of a tiltback

in conclusion

 

 

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