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braking performance on big EUCs


Spark
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hey riders,
today I had the chance to ride a MSuper v2 :)
It felt really great on forest paths, if you roll in one direction it will hold that direction like a tank no matter what.

I did not imagine the difference between 16" and 18" wheel size would be that big, on the other hand it wasn't nearly as agile as my KS16.

However one thing annoyed me to no end, it felt like forever to come to a standstill from going full speed.

The MSuper v2 braking performance is abysmal imho, esp compared to V5F (good) and KS16 (acceptable).

The guy told me his wheel is the 'medium speed' edition, however cutoff when lifting was at 52kph !? :o

 at least according to the Gotway Android App.

Now that I really enjoyed going offroad with a big sized wheel it is needed ;)
I'd like to question the community about which big size wheel has the best braking performance?

Gotway MSuper v3 (62/84V), Monster or maybe KS18?
Any first hand experience and advice is much welcome! :thumbup:

Edited by Spark
typos
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The actual difference between an 16" and an 18" is bigger than it appears because V2 is actually 18.9"(480mm).

Apart from the EUC's power, the braking performance is very much dependant on the pedal size. In order to obtain a better performance(and the ability of down a very steep slope), one needs a pair of pedal extension at rear. The Monster, being bigger wheel and same-sized pedal as the V3/V2, is the poorest braking performer. Although somebody may say that squeezing the wheel may help braking but not many people can do that especially in an emergency situations.

The lift speed for my V2 medium speed is 43kph.

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I've played around with my three wheels to see what the braking is relative to each other. The MSuper does not seem to have worse braking (and possibly better) than the other at 15 mph and below, however the delay between leaning back and getting braking is significantly more on my MSuper than my other wheels.

At higher speeds there's a lot more energy which my other wheels cannot do. Getting rid of this energy may be the reason the 18 inchers feel so bad on braking; they are simply capable of much higher speeds than other wheels.

Interestingly I find myself doing S-turns while braking. I have had the wheels slide out from underneath me doing so, but one does seem to be able to brake harder in shorter distances, somewhat like a hockey stop.

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I'm still trying to get used to braking on my V8. It doesn't feel as good as on my ninebot s1, because the pedals are so stiff you can't "lean into" it when braking.

 

It feels like you are trying to lean back while standing on the floor. On S2 the pedals back ends dip when breaking, allowing better weight distribution for breaking as I can lean back easier.

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Another thing to consider: how hard could a EUC theoretically brake?

Experiment:

  • take a bicycle
  • ride at 20 km/h (13 mph) or more
  • brake hard (both brakes, or just the back one)

Result:

Your wheels will skid while you come to a halt.

--

With a bike, that's no problem. With a self-balancing vehicle, any time the tire skids/slides/slips for more than a tiny moment, you just fell.

So I would argue EUCs have inherent limits on how hard they can brake (and accelerate): they must not brake hard enough for the tire to lose traction. That's the real limit.

Whether that limit is already reached with current wheels and braking power ultimately comes down to tire diameter and nothing else, or if same size wheels show significant differences due to software, motor power, pedals, whatever; I don't know.

Pretty sure though, the Monster will not brake better than the smaller wheels;)

(I only have one wheel so this is purely theoretical:))

---

Another interesting question: do EUCs by principle have some kind of anti-skid/anti-lock behavior, or could that be added by software to improve maximum braking?

Edited by meepmeepmayer
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28 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Another interesting question: do EUCs by principle have some kind of anti-skid/anti-lock behavior, or could that be added by software to improve maximum braking?

We need to ask that Northern European guy who runs his EUC on snow and ice. He would know.

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Braking is just another version of torque/acceleration....

There are the wheels which are hard as a rock and have a great troque (and braking).....and those wheels which are more smooth in all of its behaviour...and take their time to brake....

No way, that any of our wheels can brake so hard, that the wheel "stops"....that would be just a guarantee for a Faceplant!

So if you want to see it like that....all our wheels have a kind of "ABS"!

 

Not lang ago i was driving on an "older wheel type"....it scared me a lot to brake...(and accelerate).....as it gave me the feeling it doesn't react proper and still moves forward under my feet! From those wheels i drove, i have to say best braking performance is/was my Ks18....

You really can hear it working hard against the magnets...but never gave me just a little thought of that it is not able to perform the requested braking. I had about 3 emergency brakes with it....it never gave up, and whatsoever how hard i lean in, it still does what i wanted it todo.... My V3 67volt is another story...its more a kind of "smooth" torque and braking...and thankfully i never had to lean in for a REAL emergency brake...

Edited by KingSong69
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@KingSong69

Gotway MSuper V3 67v versus 84volt would be interesting (both in 'madden mode' or whatever they call it)

it's interesting that you rate the KS18 higher in emergency braking. As the bigger wheels are quite expensive it's hard to find s1 who owns two that fit the same usage scenario.

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hi zlymex,

I did the lift test two times the first cutoff was @52kph the second time the app went up to 57(!) for three seconds before shuting off.

The guy insisted that it was the medium speed version, he got it new from eBay just a month ago.

I didn't dare to go over 34kph (app speed) though.  We exchanged numbers so we can meet up again for more offroad fun. :)

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1 hour ago, KingSong69 said:

Not lang ago i was driving on an "older wheel type"....it scared me a lot to brake...(and accelerate).....as it gave me the feeling it doesn't react proper and still moves forward under my feet!

My Firewheel is like that sometimes, and it never really bothered me until I got the KS14C. Now I can tell that there are many times such as hard braking, hard acceleration, and bumps, where the motor just seems to be overpowered. It never gives up but you definitely feel it dip down. We never got actual specs on the FW but I think @esaj suspected it was 550W. That's a very weak motor for a 16 inch wheel!

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2 hours ago, dmethvin said:

My Firewheel is like that sometimes, and it never really bothered me until I got the KS14C. Now I can tell that there are many times such as hard braking, hard acceleration, and bumps, where the motor just seems to be overpowered. It never gives up but you definitely feel it dip down. We never got actual specs on the FW but I think @esaj suspected it was 550W. That's a very weak motor for a 16 inch wheel!

I got the number from some very old (late 2014/early 2015?) thread floating around somewhere in the forums... It's still 100W more than Ninebot One (at least I think NB1 was 450W?) 

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1 hour ago, esaj said:

I got the number from some very old (late 2014/early 2015?) thread floating around somewhere in the forums... It's still 100W more than Ninebot One (at least I think NB1 was 450W?) 

Yes, spec on the motor of the original NB1E (2014) was 450W. NB1E+ then said 500W.

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