Maximus Posted June 2, 2017 Author Share Posted June 2, 2017 5 minutes ago, Philip W said: I just find it odd that when you are speeding, the wheel didn't give you a kick back, instead a sudden cut-off. It just didn't make sense to me. You and me both! The lack of tilt back was the most surprising part given my prior experience on my V8. I can only assume that there is some connection between my cutout and the "new boards" that @Jason McNeil was eluding to as a solution to the voltage problem that @DaveThomasPilot was experiencing. We'll see if my new speed settings keep me out of trouble and if not, then I may be looking into replacing the board as a solution. Certainly this wheel is becoming less and less of a "great deal"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip W Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 It's still a "great deal", any way you look at it. The cut-off only happens when you pushed the EUC to the limit, so from now on just ride her gently. From time to time give her some flowers on the road. She will behave if you treat her right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos E Rodriguez Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 49 minutes ago, Maximus said: I'm going with 3rd at 25, tilt back at 27... Hopefully my fall had more to do with rapid acceleration than anything else...? I really didn't think I was pushing it TOO hard, but maybe it's just because I was used to the inmotion wheel, who knows? Isn't there some issue with KingSongs where your speeds are reduced when you start running low on battery power? Maybe I was lower on power than I thought, but just didn't realize it? I'm pretty sure I should have been in the 50% power range at least... 50%! That is very low to be asking your wheel to go speed of light. I would never never push hard on 50% or lower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Posted June 2, 2017 Author Share Posted June 2, 2017 1 minute ago, Carlos E Rodriguez said: 50%! That is very low to be asking your wheel to go speed of light. I would never never push hard on 50% or lower. Huh, good to know. Honestly a little disappointing, but good to know... What percentage is your threshold for feeling confident that your wheel can perform whatever you ask it to do? Just curious, because I really just assumed that the worst case scenario for an undercharged wheel, that was asked to "quickly accelerate" would be tilt back or a premature beeping noise, not throwing me to the pavement like a ragdoll ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Posted June 2, 2017 Author Share Posted June 2, 2017 21 minutes ago, Philip W said: It's still a "great deal", any way you look at it. The cut-off only happens when you pushed the EUC to the limit, so from now on just ride her gently. From time to time give her some flowers on the road. She will behave if you treat her right. Hahaha, awesome. I think you may be right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos E Rodriguez Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 19 minutes ago, Maximus said: Huh, good to know. Honestly a little disappointing, but good to know... What percentage is your threshold for feeling confident that your wheel can perform whatever you ask it to do? Just curious, because I really just assumed that the worst case scenario for an undercharged wheel, that was asked to "quickly accelerate" would be tilt back or a premature beeping noise, not throwing me to the pavement like a ragdoll ... If you are going to push hard, I would make sure its 70%. Falling its just too painful. We are very fragile. Below 60% then accelerate gently, on the up hill maintain a steady pace with no sudden accelerations. Also when going up steep hills with low battery, come up to it and then slowly bleed speed. that way you know you are not demanding too much current. Listen to the beeps and be ready to fall or speed slow enough you know you can step off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Posted June 2, 2017 Author Share Posted June 2, 2017 42 minutes ago, Carlos E Rodriguez said: If you are going to push hard, I would make sure its 70%. Falling its just too painful. We are very fragile. Below 60% then accelerate gently, on the up hill maintain a steady pace with no sudden accelerations. Also when going up steep hills with low battery, come up to it and then slowly bleed speed. that way you know you are not demanding too much current. Listen to the beeps and be ready to fall or speed slow enough you know you can step off. Great advice, thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve454 Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 6 hours ago, Philip W said: When you tried to accelerate maybe you lean too far to the front, that the circuit board thought the wheel was on the ground. It seems like the fast acceleration and forward lean made the wheel think you were about to fall forward, so it cut off quicker than you thought it would, to at least give a better chance of survival with less injuries than if you kept aggressively accelerating through the tiltback. Maybe the wheel knew it was soon to be on the ground and did a preemptive shutdown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Posted June 3, 2017 Author Share Posted June 3, 2017 37 minutes ago, steve454 said: It seems like the fast acceleration and forward lean made the wheel think you were about to fall forward, so it cut off quicker than you thought it would, to at least give a better chance of survival with less injuries than if you kept aggressively accelerating through the tiltback. Maybe the wheel knew it was soon to be on the ground and did a preemptive shutdown. It's a theory, all I know is that I heard a beep just prior to the cut out so I assume I was going at least 27 or 28kph where I think my only alarm was set to? My plan is to just add a second alarm and reduce both alarms to lower speeds along with acceleration a bit more slowly in the future. I really don't want to do that again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve454 Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 1 minute ago, Maximus said: I was going at least 27 or 28kph where I think my only alarm was set to? 2 minutes ago, Maximus said: I was going at least 27 or 28kph How do you turn off the double quote? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Posted June 3, 2017 Author Share Posted June 3, 2017 Geez, I'm not sure? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason McNeil Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 @Maximus do you recall what the voltage was when your Wheel cut out? Your board is over-reporting the voltage by 2v, might not seem like a big deal, but if you're below the 58v level, the battery is not capable of sustaining the voltage for hard acceleration. Relationship between acceleration & voltage drop can be seen in this example with an old 9B1 E (30 cells), & it's quite profound. At 62v, this is a fully charged battery, during hard acceleration, the voltage falls to 47.5v & the Wheel inevitably cuts out. If it detects you're being too aggressive, a good firmware will give you some preemptive tilt-back below the 40-50% level, . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Posted June 3, 2017 Author Share Posted June 3, 2017 2 hours ago, Jason McNeil said: do you recall what the voltage was when your Wheel cut out? I didn't even think to look at voltage...now that it seems like it's an important statistic, I'll be keeping track a lot more. I'm still trying to get the voltage down on the wheel just so that it will start normally. @Jason McNeil, when you say that a "good firmware will provide preemptive tiltback" are you saying that there is an upgrade to my KS-14C's firmware or are you saying that their firmware is not good compare to another more modern wheel? As much as I want to know "why" this happened, in also trying to figure out how to prevent it in the future. Is this an operator error where I need to learn how to ride this wheel differently based upon wheel variables or is there a hardware/software change that can be made to the KS-14C that would at least provide me with tiltback instead of a cutout? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos E Rodriguez Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 Nothin to change. The EUC software is very simplistic. They need to add more capabilities, adaptation and battery and use changes and terrain knowledge so it can do real time adaptations to maximize efficiency and safety and power. For that they would need more software but I don't think they know how to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve454 Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 3 hours ago, Maximus said: I didn't even think to look at voltage...now that it seems like it's an important statistic, I'll be keeping track a lot more. I'm still trying to get the voltage down on the wheel just so that it will start normally. @Jason McNeil, when you say that a "good firmware will provide preemptive tiltback" are you saying that there is an upgrade to my KS-14C's firmware or are you saying that their firmware is not good compare to another more modern wheel? As much as I want to know "why" this happened, in also trying to figure out how to prevent it in the future. Is this an operator error where I need to learn how to ride this wheel differently based upon wheel variables or is there a hardware/software change that can be made to the KS-14C that would at least provide me with tiltback instead of a cutout? Have you seen @Marty Backe's long ride videos? He rides pretty fast but doesn't accelerate too quickly I believe that style of riding has almost no chance of cutout, as long as the cruise speed is a few miles per hour below tilt back speed, so as to have some safety margin in the batteries for voltage sag. I guess what I am trying to say is, just slow down a little. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 @Maximus Older Ks14 C are pretty well known Historie to cut out on hard accelerations or hefty hills or ultraheavyriders or alle of that- if batterie to low....that's why Ks implemented a speed regulation on Newer Firmwares! It CAN drive 30 down to 20-25% but NOT if pushed to hard! so just try to calm down your drivestyle under 50% Firmware can only be updated on newer Ks14c.... if that's not possible on yours...you have on old type....no speed regulation, but responsible driving needed on lower batterie a important question would be what version you have 340wh or double batterie with at least 680wh? if just 340/420 take all this advices even more seriously!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Posted June 4, 2017 Author Share Posted June 4, 2017 16 minutes ago, KingSong69 said: important question would be what version you have 340wh or double batterie with at least 680wh? I have the big 840Wh battery...if I can ever get the wheel to turn back on I'll be sure to reduce hard acceleration and be more careful under 50%. Not sure how useful it is to have this big battery if I'm limiting with the charge doctor to 80-90% and then I can only ride "carefree" until 50%. What a pain, I should have stuck with my inmotion wheel! Smaller battery but 100% reliable and I was able to ride the same way through about ~20% battery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 5 hours ago, steve454 said: Have you seen @Marty Backe's long ride videos? He rides pretty fast but doesn't accelerate too quickly I believe that style of riding has almost no chance of cutout, as long as the cruise speed is a few miles per hour below tilt back speed, so as to have some safety margin in the batteries for voltage sag. I guess what I am trying to say is, just slow down a little. Yes, I never accelerate hard with any of my wheels, including my 840wh KS14C. Don't get me wrong, I accelerate but I don't push it like I'm trying to escape the jaws of Godzilla. Never had a problem, and I've written my KS14C very fast even when below 30%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 5 hours ago, Maximus said: I have the big 840Wh battery...if I can ever get the wheel to turn back on I'll be sure to reduce hard acceleration and be more careful under 50%. Not sure how useful it is to have this big battery if I'm limiting with the charge doctor to 80-90% and then I can only ride "carefree" until 50%. What a pain, I should have stuck with my inmotion wheel! Smaller battery but 100% reliable and I was able to ride the same way through about ~20% battery. Sorry, but your post sounds a bit like you have tried "to show off" to your friends when accelerated, how fantastic fast and incredible your unicycle is..... Do this with your V8 at 30% or some higher and I can guarantee you same thing happening! (there are reports of cutting out V8,also,so no difference here) thats no offense meant! I have done exactly the same on one of my wheels....this showing off thing and failed with Desaster :-) Just drive it like a normal human being.... take you time and (on fuel batterie) look at some stats of a app of wheellog or Gyrometrics which crazy amounts of Amps and voltdrop are produced on a really hard acceleration....and you will get the mechanics of what's possible and what not.... on newer firmwares KS because of this reduced the speed at a certain batterie level ( depending on wheeltype starting at 45% or 25%) and they are overly and overly bashed for doing that safety features..... so in the end it still lays in the hand of the users this times we are in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Posted June 4, 2017 Author Share Posted June 4, 2017 2 hours ago, KingSong69 said: but your post sounds a bit like you have tried "to show off" to your friends when accelerated, how fantastic fast and incredible your unicycle is..... Don't get me wrong, I was accelerating after just having turned around, but it was my first long ride with the wheel, so I was not 100% comfortable and didn't feel like I was doing anything too unusual. Point taken though, I'll just avoid that type of acceleration particularly with a lower battery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dingfelder Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 On 6/2/2017 at 5:16 PM, steve454 said: How do you turn off the double quote? I don't know. I do know that responding to multiple pieces of a single quote separately is a mess on this forum. New codes keep getting added in and turning everything back to a single botched up quote again. Something with quotes is automated which should be left alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dingfelder Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 15 hours ago, KingSong69 said: Sorry, but your post sounds a bit like you have tried "to show off" to your friends when accelerated, how fantastic fast and incredible your unicycle is..... .... Just drive it like a normal human being.... But showing off *IS* being a normal human being! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve454 Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 Just now, Dingfelder said: But showing off *IS* being a normal human being! Good point! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos E Rodriguez Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 14 hours ago, steve454 said: Good point! LOL. I know This things are so cool. I also want to mess around with it. For me just jumping off the sidewalk or ramming into it would be great, but I am afraid I would bust the axle. I weight 190 and I can feel the minute flexing just taking the big cracks on the asphalt. So I avoid it and take the bumps with care.Falling is too painful. I personally believe the design is not robust enough to take that beating. But it would be very simple to re-engineer and they should. All it needs is: Wider axel. 3/14 or 1 inch thick. Not hallow but with channels cut along the shaft wide enough to fit one cable. So 4 channels cut. Bigger or more MOSFET rated at total current of 120% of max. Ball park it should be able to handle 60 amps sustained without overheating or have hardware and software to limit the max current and not push pass max. I rather feel the wheel get soft and possibly have to step off because I pushed too hard than blow a MOSFET or have a BMS shutdown event. BMS shutdown should be a safety to prevent battery fire due to short circuit and not to control riding. Controller and push buttons should be water proof. Kingsong puts conformal coating on their controller. I dont thing Gotway puts anything yet. Stop putting silicon caulk over everything. its not useful specially over the MOSFET. It acts as an insulator of heat. Power cables are not supposed to be bent at 180 degrees. It causes high resistance point at the bends. They need to be routed with progressive turn radius. Quality controls for soldering. Its terrible what they are doing right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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