Battery bars on V5f+ question

[Mrd777]

I've had my V5f + for less then a week and loving it, crusing all around nyc. I just noticed that the last bar is red and the second bar is orange, obviously letting me know that my battery is running low. On my app it tells me I have 40% battery left. My question is really how long do you trust running on these warning bars? Is it safe to wait for just a single red bar? and what battery percent is one bar?  I'm paranoid that it's going to shut off on me, is there any more of a warning sign? It seems a bit early to be getting red and orange bars at 40%.

thanks

[Mono]

I have a V8, where

<=10% <=> 1 bar blinking (red bar)
10%-20% <=> 1 bar (red bar)
20%-40% <=> 2 bars (red+orange)
...

The percentages are not likely to be the actual remaining battery capacity, in particular for values close to 0%. Given the reputation of InMotion and my experience I assume it is safe to ride the wheel to the very end, while you won't be able to ride at higher speed anymore when the battery is very low. While on 1 bar the wheel becomes notably softer, the riding experience is still pretty good. 

[houseofjob]

@Mrd777 I imagine the V5 bars are orange + red for the last 2 because that is the range where you are sacrificing decreased battery cycle count / battery longevity for more mileage. It is recommended, depending on who you ask, that you do not dip below anywhere from 20-40% battery if you are intending to maximize lithium battery life in general.

 

Battery percentage meter reading equivalents for the V5 should be the same as what @Mono is saying for the V8. Also remember, like @Mono is saying, battery percentage itself is not the most accurate measure, relative, not finite. (Temperature, cycle count dependent)

 

For InMotion wheels, your V5 should enter into cripple mode somewhere sub-20% battery, where max speed is significantly reduced, with the onset of tiltback threshold increasingly lowered where, eventually, you are unable to comfortably travel any further. The only caveat to watch out for is in extreme weather conditions where battery capacity is artificially reduced. Otherwise, you should be fine. (also note, harder accelerations that are acceptable at 100% battery might cutout at sub-20% battery level)

[Mono]

13 hours ago, houseofjob said:

It is recommended, depending on who you ask, that you do not dip below anywhere from 20-40% battery if you are intending to maximize lithium battery life in general.

when I see 30% battery charge status in the InMotion app, the charge doctor indicates 74V under charging, which means the battery has probably around 72.3V (accounting 1.1V for the 1.6A charge current and 0.6V for the diode). This means each cell still has more than 3.6=72/20V, which is considered to be the voltage of 50% charge of the cell. Doing the same computations, 15% (1 bar) on the app is about 3.5V in the cell. Hence I doubt that you could save a relevant number of battery cycles by never riding to 1 bar. Savings are more likely to come from not charging close to 100%. 

[who_the]

I find the V8 battery indicator to be extremely cautious, which i appreciate. I treat the "yellow-red," 2-bar indication as the halfway point in the effective charge, it seems to last a long time there. I've only run the battery down once to the point where my wheel tilted back and wouldn't let me ride any more. 

[LanghamP]

My apartment is on top of a long 1.5 mile slope; would regenerative braking damage my wheel if I go down it at 100% charged?

[houseofjob]

6 minutes ago, LanghamP said:

Does the VF5+ regenerative brake when going downhill?

All EUCs have regenerative braking period (i.e. for ALL braking).

6 minutes ago, LanghamP said:

If so, is there overcharge protection?

Sure. It's called cutout (wheel stays on but gyro stops balancing).

This not limited to regenerative braking downhill; happens for: overleaning, going over max speed, and hard regenerative braking (ala downhill) on a full battery.

[Mono]

My conjecture is that the only cutout that all current wheels have implemented is for max speed. Otherwise, in over-demand situations the wheel may just become weaker than expected and easy to out-lean, which is different from a cutout.

[houseofjob]

?

Can you elaborate?

Everything I've been led to believe on this forum is that there is a current threshold cutoff that these EUC manufacturers set to protect the motor and battery. Demanding too much, i.e. current spikes, whether gradually (overspeed) or suddenly (overlean) is what triggers cutout, both instances will result in the wheel staying powered ON, while the gyro stops functioning and there is no locomotive force. 

If this is not correct, can you explain in concrete, scientific detail rather than in vague-eries like "weaker"?

[steve454]

1 hour ago, LanghamP said:

My apartment is on top of a long 1.5 mile slope; would regenerative braking damage my wheel if I go down it at 100% charged?

Wow, that's a long hill, how steep is it?  As said above, you risk cutout with overcharged batteries, it might not damage the wheel, but if it cuts off and you fall and the wheel keeps going downhill, picking up speed and tumbling, that could damage the wheel (and anything in it's path)   I recommend not charging to 100 percent, and using a leash on long hills.  That would be safer.

[houseofjob]

1 hour ago, LanghamP said:

My apartment is on top of a long 1.5 mile slope; would regenerative braking damage my wheel if I go down it at 100% charged?

Yes if there was no such thing as overcurrent threshold cutout protection.

But there is (every wheel has).

 

Basically, at 100%, the regenerated current going back into the battery has nowhere to go (full battery potential). This is potentially harmful (read: possible fires), so the wheel has a protection against it: cutout.

There might be damage to you (falling/faceplant), but not to the wheel (unless it rolls of into traffic and gets run over maybe?).

 

Also of note, the regenerative current coming back to the battery is not as strong as some might lead you to believe.

Under a perfect storm, i.e. true 100% max charge then immediately going downhill with max braking force, you might get dropped, but I've had occasions where I've forgotten, charged 100% on the meter (might not be true max), then had to go downhill.

In those cases, I would remember this phenomena, try to accelerate some of the battery down before the hill, then slalom side-to-side down the hill, so as to minimize braking. Never experienced cutout.

[Mono]

1 hour ago, houseofjob said:

Can you elaborate?

The current can be limited without turning off the gyro. If the rider runs into this limitation, the wheel cannot keep the pedals level anymore and this imposes as weakness to the rider. Limiting the current of electric motors (at low speed) is rather a standard procedure.^1 At higher speeds the back EMF limits the current anyways. Cutting off the gyro/motor to limit the current I would call negligent design. This doesn't mean to say that producers could not be negligent.

Quote

Everything I've been led to believe on this forum is that there is a current threshold cutoff that these EUC manufacturers set to protect the motor and battery.

We have read the same posts but have come to different conclusions. I could not even remember a single post which argues (evidence-based) that all wheels cutoff the gyro/motor when they reach their limit current, but I would be very interested in a link. I am aware that some wheels have fuses and some wheels produce somewhat random cutouts. I have experienced forward and backward outleans but have, IIRC, never perceived a gyro/motor cut off in these cases.

^1 https://evmc2.wordpress.com/2014/07/21/electric-motor-power-really-simple-and-hp-ratings/

[houseofjob]

16 minutes ago, Mono said:

The current can be limited without turning off the gyro.

I'm sure they can, but is this really the current implementation? Isn't overlean too sudden a spike? Why does the gyro stop powering on overlean, as every overlean I've had still had the wheel powered on?

If this is the current implementation, wouldn't trying to lean and go faster past max speed result in the wheel just climbing speed normally (ignoring the higher acceleration rate request), not dropping the rider?

And I don't understand how you're saying high speed cutout is not the same phenomena as overlean. The wheel in both cases remain on but stop balancing, so isn't this an indication of an active wheel protection? Otherwise, the end result would be total power off or a battery fire, wouldn't it?

 

If I am wrong, I would like to learn, but your explanations don't seem to match my experiences (the other reasonings I picked up from this forum do). Please explain clearly and specifically, thanks!

[Mono]

14 hours ago, houseofjob said:

And I don't understand how you're saying high speed cutout is not the same phenomena as overlean.

You may have a look at the power and current vs speed graphs of electric motors. The maximal possible current goes linearly down with increasing speed. The "true" limit speed is where the current becomes zero. This is an entirely different operating condition than one would have in case of an "overcurrent", which would risk to damage components of the wheel. Overlean means approaching the limit current in the given situation, which does not necessarily damage components (and in most cases it doesn't) and from the wheels perspective an overlean wouldn't need any specific management at all in most cases.

The max speed cutout is necessary to turn off the wheel when it is lifted and freely spinning. 

14 hours ago, houseofjob said:

Why does the gyro stop powering on overlean, as every overlean I've had still had the wheel powered on?

Why wouldn't it remain to be powered on? I don't say that it shuts off, so the wheel lying on the side remained powered is exactly what I would expect. I can also imagine that when you lean a wheel too far in any direction (not only to the side) that it cuts off, but I haven't any data which gives support in one way or the other and it might depend on the specific wheel anyway. This would not have anything to do with the current, it would just depend on the angle of the wheel.

[LanghamP]

7 hours ago, LanghamP said:

My apartment is on top of a long 1.5 mile slope; would regenerative braking damage my wheel if I go down it at 100% charged?

Here's the answer from Jason McNeil.

It's a good question. During a charge cycle, the charger tops the battery up to 100% of their capacity. We have gizmo that allow you to do a partial charge, say 90% of the cell's potential, and therefore can be used safely in this situation. The only problem is that we don't have them with the V5F connector at the moment. 

 

Have a good evening,

Jason

[travsformation]

Hi,

I live in a very hilly area (makes San Francisco look flat; great place to learn EUC by the way! ), and am also wondering about this. Doesn't the V8 (which is the EUC I own) have some sort of alarm or warning for overcurrent (as opposed to just cutting out)?

I have yet to hear an alarm when going UP steep hills (although I do take it pretty easy and also tend to pick up speed before hills so inertia's on my side and I don't stress the motor too much). What I am concerned about is downhills: Like @LanghamP, I also live at the top of a long hill (although the seriously steep part is only about 1/4 of a mile). I've never heard an alarm from the V8 yet, or experienced a cutout, even though I've forgotten about the overcharge issue several times and gone down it on 100% battery.

On 2/27/2017 at 12:38 AM, houseofjob said:

Basically, at 100%, the regenerated current going back into the battery has nowhere to go (full battery potential). This is potentially harmful (read: possible fires), so the wheel has a protection against it: cutout.

Is the V8 any different from the V5 in this regard? (I'm guessing not, from what you posted above). So...in case of overcharge due to regenerative braking....the only warning I'll get is a cutout...? (No beeping, alarms, etc.). If so, yikes...

On the other hand, I know it's been explained but I'm not sure I fully understand (sorry...'tis my first week on the V8....). When exactly does regenerative braking occur? In all instances of braking, or on less pronounced (down)hills (I'm assuming there must be a difference: in some occasions the motor is able to regenerate current when braking, and in others it has to USE current to brake?). And is there a risk of a cutout with high battery regardless of the inclination of the hill?

Thanks for your patience and sorry for the newbie question.

[travsformation]

[Duplicated post, don't know how to delete so replaced post with THIS. Sorry]

[houseofjob]

On 11/3/2018 at 9:11 AM, travsformation said:

Is the V8 any different from the V5 in this regard? (I'm guessing not, from what you posted above). So...in case of overcharge due to regenerative braking....the only warning I'll get is a cutout...? (No beeping, alarms, etc.). If so, yikes...

Same for all EUC, brand / model regardless.

I'm not sure about a warning alarm for regen overcharge, could be different for each make & model of wheel.

 

On 11/3/2018 at 9:11 AM, travsformation said:

When exactly does regenerative braking occur? In all instances of braking, or on less pronounced (down)hills (I'm assuming there must be a difference: in some occasions the motor is able to regenerate current when braking, and in others it has to USE current to brake?). And is there a risk of a cutout with high battery regardless of the inclination of the hill?

Every time you brake with any EUC.

An EUC does not have traditional brakes like a car, bike, electric scooter, etc. To brake, the same EUC motor which moves you forward, starts trying to spin the opposite direction (while the wheel is still moving forward), causing an overall loss in forward speed.

Since current is drawn out of the battery to power the motor moving forward, the same motor trying to spin counter the opposite direction during the same forward motion, will send current back into the battery (ie. regen). 

This is basic conservation of energy law: energy cannot be created or destroyed, only altered into one form or another.

For a traditional car braking system, instead of regen, the energy being transferred is the heat lost into the air, as a result of friction of the brake pad clamping down on the car wheel.

 

On 11/3/2018 at 9:11 AM, travsformation said:

And is there a risk of a cutout with high battery regardless of the inclination of the hill?

Cutout depends on how hard you are braking (which controls the amount of current being regenerated), and how much headroom you have between your battery charge % and the 100% max. There is a threshold current value somewhere at or near 100% battery percentage, which, when crossed, will trigger the battery BMS to cut current flow between the motor and battery, as a safety measure to prevent risk of fire. 

 

[meepmeepmayer]

I don't think any modern wheel (including the V5 or V8) will just switch off without warning in any situation where the electronics themselves aren't broken. Those times are over. I sure hope so

On my ACM, there's overcharge beeping (and a tiltback, I believe, not sure, it only happened to me once), and I'd guess the V8 has the same. Same for overcurrent (though that's harder to define and may just end up being a temperature alarm).

The only thing to know about overcharging, if you hear the beeps, you don't have much time before it has to switch itself off (unlike overspeed e.g.).

Regenerative braking is mysterious, but the general consensus is that you always have it when you brake. The only other method of braking apparently is shorting and locking the motor for the fraction of a second in rapid succession, but even then in the breaks the motor moves and therefore regenerates.

Gotways consider battery cells 100% at below the max voltage (4.2V but "full" is something around 4.1V), so even after the charger has gone green, it will continue to charge the wheel (over 100Wh extra for my 1300Wh battery). I would assume your V8 does the same, so your battery isn't as full as you think (you can get 5% or 10% more). You can do a range test right after reaching 100%/green charger and a range test after you've had the green charger in the wheel for a few extra hours and see if there's a difference. Assumedly that's why you have no overcharge problem going downhill on 100%, your battery isn't really full.

[travsformation]

3 hours ago, houseofjob said:

An EUC does not have traditional brakes like a car, bike, electric scooter, etc. To brake, the same EUC motor which moves you forward, starts trying to spin the opposite direction (while the wheel is still moving forward), causing an overall loss in forward speed.

Since current is drawn out of the battery to power the motor moving forward, the same motor trying to spin counter the opposite direction during the same forward motion, will send current back into the battery (ie. regen). 

Thanks for the explanation @houseofjob ! I guess it's initially hard to wrap one's head around the notion of how an electric motor works, since it's so different from other types of motors (including other types of electric motors: AC-powered fans, PC fans, electric tooth brushes and razors, sex toys...)  I've read through some of the more technical posts on how the electric motor works and vaguely understood that it has to do with magnets, coils and rapid use-consumption cycles (so a pretty vague understanding), but now I think I get the general idea.

3 hours ago, houseofjob said:

This is basic conversation of energy law: energy cannot be created or destroyed, only altered into one form or another. For a traditional car braking system, instead of regen, the energy being transferred is the heat lost into the air, as a result of friction of the brake pad clamping down on the car wheel.

So in very vague and layman terms...electric energy is used to create movement, and when braking, that movement/inertia is converted back into electric energy, right? And for the sake of argument, to make sure I fully understand the conversion of energy law, if the energy generated while braking can't be absorbed by the battery cells, the EUC cuts out, thus transferring that energy to me in the form of motion (me falling on my ass), and then heat (due to the friction of my ass with the pavement)

On a serious note, technically, that means that if I were to go for a ride that included a lot of downhills, my range would be greater than if it were entirely on flat surface?

3 hours ago, houseofjob said:

Cutout depends on how hard you are braking (which controls the amount of current being regenerated), and how much headroom you have between your battery charge % and the 100% max. There is a threshold current value somewhere at or near 100% battery percentage, which, when crossed, will trigger the battery BMS to cut current flow between the motor and battery, as a safety measure to prevent risk of fire.

OK, I understand. So as I recall reading in another post, if at the very start of my ride I'm going to be doing a lot of braking, it might be wise to leave home with no more than 80% battery, just to be on the safe side...

2 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

On my ACM, there's overcharge beeping (and a tiltback, I believe, not sure, it only happened to me once), and I'd guess the V8 has the same.

@meepmeepmayer But....how does tiltback work if you're already tilting waaaay back to brake?

2 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Regenerative braking is mysterious, but the general consensus is that you always have it when you brake.

I think that's the main idea that I needed to understand

2 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

The only thing to know about overcharging, if you hear the beeps, you don't have much time before it has to switch itself off

Haven't heard the beep yet, but hopefully the V8 will emit it if the case arises, before a cut-out occurs. I recently fell on my ass while going down a steep hill, and the exact cause is still a mystery to me. I'm not sure whether the machine cut out with no warning (I was on 100% battery, going down the hill that my house is at the top of) , or that I accidentally hit the anti-spin handle button with the leash while lifting my arm for balance. @Mono mentioned that EUCs disable the kill switch above 2-3 km/h, can anyone confirm this?

2 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

I would assume your V8 does the same, so your battery isn't as full as you think (you can get 5% or 10% more). Assumedly that's why you have no overcharge problem going downhill on 100%, your battery isn't really full.

I guess I'm paranoid because of all the horror stories I've read about cut-outs while descending hills and how steep the hills in my neighbourhood are...

(Route to the closest café/bar)

(Route to the town centre, where all the shops are. Final destination is C, but I have to create waypoints so Gmaps doesn't send me along the main road. Anyway, the trip is 36' by bicycle, of which 25 are downhill....)

So you can see where my paranoia's coming from...Do you think that on this type of terrain/routes I can trust that the wheel will warn me before it cuts out, and the fact that the wheel's not really 100% charged, or should I err on the side of caution and leave home with 80% charge? (when I eventually feel confident enough to tackle that route, of course). Anyway, enough of my rambling...thanks for your patience guys!

 

[LanghamP]

If you're leaning on the pedals then you're burning the gas regardless of direction. Wheels don't care which way they point.

If you "float" down a hill then you'll get some but not much energy back. Maybe 20% or less, although I have noticed that if you start at the top of a mild 1-2 mile hill then the returned energy is quite a lot.

If you're leaning backwards quite a bit downhill then you can confirm you're using and not storing energy by looking at your WheelLog burn. I personally don't start at the top of a hill at 100%.

[meepmeepmayer]

32 minutes ago, travsformation said:

On a serious note, technically, that means that if I were to go for a ride that included a lot of downhills, my range would be greater than if it were entirely on flat surface?

Going downhill is always free at minimum. So you can ride until your battery is full. There's a 35 mile bike ride on Hawaii that's supposedly downhill only. Would be a nice experiment.

38 minutes ago, travsformation said:

I think that's the main idea that I needed to understand

We don't have an electrical engineer or physicist here who would explain things definitely. So all regen discussion is educated guesses. It seems less steep hills give more energy back, while very steep ones give less (heat losses I guess). Not 100% sure about that.

But you can alwas be certain, if you're on top of something with an empty battery, you can always ride down.

33 minutes ago, travsformation said:

OK, I understand. So as I recall reading in another post, if at the very start of my ride I'm going to be doing a lot of braking, it might be wise to leave home with no more than 80% battery, just to be on the safe side...

In principle, it can't hurt. 80% is maybe too cautious. You can look how much battery you gain from going down and then you know what the difference is.

35 minutes ago, travsformation said:

@meepmeepmayer But....how does tiltback work if you're already tilting waaaay back to brake?

Lean more. Pedal tilt from braking is a few degrees. A nice mean tiltback can have the pedals at a 45° angle. So enough room available.

37 minutes ago, travsformation said:

Haven't heard the beep yet, but hopefully the V8 will emit it if the case arises, before a cut-out occurs. I recently fell on my ass while going down a steep hill, and the exact cause is still a mystery to me. I'm not sure whether the machine cut out with no warning (I was on 100% battery, going down the hill that my house is at the top of) , or that I accidentally hit the anti-spin handle button with the leash while lifting my arm for balance.

Not sure what happened. Maybe it was overcharge, maybe not. But if you got down the hill one day, it should work the next day too (so that would mean it's unlikely an overcharge). I'd really be disappointed if the V8 has no such warning. But the lift button should make a sound too, shouldn't it? Mysterious. Maybe you overpowered it somehow?

45 minutes ago, travsformation said:

I guess I'm paranoid because of all the horror stories I've read about cut-outs while descending hills and how steep the hills in my neighbourhood are...

Horror stories? Havent heard any downhill cut-out horror stories. Not even from the weaker wheels.

Just to be clear, if the battery is completely full and still getting a current, is has to be disconnected or it might blow up. That's all. Should be very predictable (and have a warning before the battery is too full). It's not something that can randomly happen one day and won't happen the other day.

[Mono]

49 minutes ago, travsformation said:

On a serious note, technically, that means that if I were to go for a ride that included a lot of downhills, my range would be greater than if it were entirely on flat surface?

Yes, if the downhills do not take turns with uphills and you end up at a lower altitude than you started with. But that is also true without any regen involved.

BTW, based on the data I have seen or collected myself (and quotations from insiders) I strongly doubt the common believe that hard braking is done with regen.

[travsformation]

12 hours ago, LanghamP said:

If you're leaning backwards quite a bit downhill then you can confirm you're using and not storing energy by looking at your WheelLog burn. I personally don't start at the top of a hill at 100%.

Will check that out, thanks! Also, will get into the habit of not leaving home with a 100% charge... (I'm the Fool at the top of the hill )

11 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Going downhill is always free at minimum. There's a 35 mile bike ride on Hawaii that's supposedly downhill only. Would be a nice experiment.

Good point! (Does charging the wheel at Starbucks count as free too?) hehe  That road would definitely be cool to try out!

11 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

But you can alwas be certain, if you're on top of something with an empty battery, you can always ride down.

Or where I live, roll down!

11 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

In principle, it can't hurt. 80% is maybe too cautious. You can look how much battery you gain from going down and then you know what the difference is.

Will start with 80% and based on the charge I gain, adjust my habits accordingly. I think all this overthinking is coming from that fact that I got an injury during the first week of unicycling, so since I can't hop on my wheel, all I can do is think about and obsess about it!

11 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Lean more. Pedal tilt from braking is a few degrees. A nice mean tiltback can have the pedals at a 45° angle.

Good point. I guess there's only one way to find out! (Note to self: buy coccyx protection)

11 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Not sure what happened. Maybe it was overcharge, maybe not. But if you got down the hill one day, it should work the next day too (so that would mean it's unlikely an overcharge). I'd really be disappointed if the V8 has no such warning. But the lift button should make a sound too, shouldn't it? Mysterious. Maybe you overpowered it somehow?

I don't remember hearing any kind of noise, nor alarm nor the button noise. Then again, I focusing on the car that was about to pass me. As to the button being deactivated above certain speeds, I found a partial answer here thanks to some testing done by @WARPed170D.

11 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Just to be clear, if the battery is completely full and still getting a current, is has to be disconnected or it might blow up. That's all.

Yeah, would rather fall on my ass than have my V8 blow up on me. And a coccyx protector is definitely cheaper than a V8...(but maybe not more than a new coccyx hehe)

Off-topic: What do you guys think of the Dainese Action Short Evo? I know they're designed for snow sports, but as well as padding, they have plastic plates on thighs and, more importantly, the coccyx. I'd definitely trust these more than the G-Form Pro-X shorts (there's a review on Amazon for the Burton shorts (they use G-Form "foam") of someone who fell on ice while skiing, wearing Burton G-forms, and broke his coccyx). Motocross shorts might be a better fit, but with the larger plates on the bottom vertebrae, I doubt I could wear them under my regular clothes (I don't mind wearing knee and elbowpads over my clothes, but I refuse to wear biking shorts over my jeans....every man has his limits, you have to draw the line somewhere....  )

11 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Just to be clear, if the battery is completely full and still getting a current, is has to be disconnected or it might blow up. That's all. Should be very predictable (and have a warning before the battery is too full). It's not something that can randomly happen one day and won't happen the other day.

Good point. Have gone down that hill at least 4 times and that's the only time it happened. Has to be the kill switch (I was at a nearly standstill speed as I was slowing down massively because I was losing balance and a car was about to pass me...)

11 hours ago, Mono said:

Yes, if the downhills do not take turns with uphills and you end up at a lower altitude than you started with. But that is also true without any regen involved.

I've done a couple of 8km routes that include some massive uphills, but mostly downhills, and was surprised by how little the battery went down. Will start checking the battery level more closely and monitoring the WheelLlog graph.

Thanks for the replies an useful info guys!

[travsformation]

On 11/5/2018 at 2:17 AM, Mono said:

BTW, based on the data I have seen or collected myself (and quotations from insiders) I strongly doubt the common believe that hard braking is done with regen.

Today I checked my battery level on WheelLog at the top of a steep hill, 80% of which involved hard braking: 43%. I checked again at the bottom and battery level had gone up to 51%. It was interesting to watch the V8 battery indicator go down to 2 bars (1 red + 1 orange) after going uphill, and then go back up to 3 blue bars after going down a hill. Towards the end of the ride I got down to 1 red bar (not blinking), and after a couple of steep downhills (seriously hard braking), I was back to 1 red + 1 orange, so in my (very brief) experience, it appears that hard braking does in fact regen.

 

On 2/21/2017 at 1:36 AM, Mono said:

<=10% <=> 1 bar blinking (red bar)
10%-20% <=> 1 bar (red bar)
20%-40% <=> 2 bars (red+orange)

Based on this, one should start to "worry" when the red bar starts blinking then, right?