MSV3 Wind testing

[Cerbera]

My airwheel was quite good in strong wind. If the wind was behind you or towards you control was pretty excellent - less so if it's coming at you from the side. Most of the time I could stay on it, and even tolerate powerful sideways blasts by zig-zagging across it to avoid being blown off.

So I had imagined that the Gotway MS3, with its heavier weight, fatter tyre, and stable ride authority would do equally well, if not better in 50 mph+ wind. Well I was wrong about that

The infamous 'rock zone' - the null area around the center of gravity becomes something of an issue in strong headwind. The wind I was in this morning was strong enough to make my pedals rock back and forth like nobody's business, which very much didn't help my forward motion. Sideswipes by the wind seem to upset the stability of the tyre on the ground more, sending me wobbly, rather more easily than what happened with my old 14 incher in similar conditions.

Lastly, with wind full against you, the wheel doesn't like being pushed forwards, and feels like it is struggling to exert itself with any authority. I found I could improve things slightly by rotating my body so that I was more side-on to the wind, and offering minimum profile to air drag, but even so, that was quite hard going !

I am going out in it again now  Anyway, so what are your thoughts on Gotways and high wind ? Are there any other techniques you guys have found for minimizing the problems ?

CBR

 

 

[nomad]

So that's why it's called AIRwheel...

Seriously though I think for combating strong wind easier what you need is a solid grip on the shell. A fat shell with harder cushions (or no cushions) is more stable! The v3 is pretty thin (especially 820Wh model) and has very soft pads.

Furthermore a fat shell will give a wider foot stance. Also pedal height affects the pivoting. Think a virtual triangle drawn between the contact point to the ground and the outsides of the pedals. If the bottom corner of the triangle is more pointy then it's less stable. So wider separated pedals that hang lower gives a more stable platform. Compared to my V5F+ the Msuper v3 was much more stable, because the V5F+ is super thin while the pedals are just as high, even a tiny bit higher because they are a little more angled up like a V.

[Donafello]

3 hours ago, Cerbera said:

My airwheel was quite good in strong wind. If the wind was behind you or towards you control was pretty excellent - less so if it's coming at you from the side. Most of the time I could stay on it, and even tolerate powerful sideways blasts by zig-zagging across it to avoid being blown off.

So I had imagined that the Gotway MS3, with its heavier weight, fatter tyre, and stable ride authority would do equally well, if not better in 50 mph+ wind. Well I was wrong about that

The infamous 'rock zone' - the null area around the center of gravity becomes something of an issue in strong headwind. The wind I was in this morning was strong enough to make my pedals rock back and forth like nobody's business, which very much didn't help my forward motion. Sideswipes by the wind seem to upset the stability of the tyre on the ground more, sending me wobbly, rather more easily than what happened with my old 14 incher in similar conditions.

Lastly, with wind full against you, the wheel doesn't like being pushed forwards, and feels like it is struggling to exert itself with any authority. I found I could improve things slightly by rotating my body so that I was more side-on to the wind, and offering minimum profile to air drag, but even so, that was quite hard going !

I am going out in it again now  Anyway, so what are your thoughts on Gotways and high wind ? Are there any other techniques you guys have found for minimizing the problems ?

CBR

 

 

Its funny you bring this up because out of the 3 HOLY SH*T moments I had on a unicycle 2 of them was because of wind. The first one was when I was carrying a grocery bag in one hand and it was set on my side. I was riding about 25/30km and a gust of wind came and I was instantly pulled to one side. I really prepared to fall. I dropped the bag and somehow saved it. The second time  was without anything in my hands and a gust of wind hit me so hard from the side thank god there was nothing 3 feet to my left. And the thrid was hitting a bump in rain and my feet almost slid off the thing

[Smoother]

@Donafello.  I have 3 HOLY SH*T moment every ride, and that's just getting on the damn thing. I salute you! 

@Cerbera. My technique for minimising the problem of riding in high winds, is to prop my wheel careful up against a wall, make a cup of tea and watch that nasty wind blow, from the warmth and safety of my couch. Maybe a biscuit too.??☕️

But seriously. When the wind blows here at the beach it knocks me all over the place, I'm not having fun, and I can't hear the music coming from my Kingsong speakers, so I call it a day.  Just like my Paramotoring, if I'm not enjoying it I won't do it.

[EnPagés]

I ride daily next to the beach and in winter some days I go walking, my MCM4 it's for enjoy it not for hurt me.

@Donafello I'm able to ride with a jug of water and also a tower of pizza to take away but I've been practicing with short distances first.

[Cerbera]

Thanks for the replies, guys

Cheers @nomad for that tip about hanging on to the shell - I would agree that does help, even though it takes some adjustment to my normal riding style, which is not to touch the pads at all...

@Smoother I am so pleased for you that you have a paramotor; I badly want one of those  Alas, my nearest club / training center is Brighton, which is just too far away to be useful

@Donafello Ah yes, the old 'shopping bag caught by wind' problem. I certainly know about that one  I have found that if you keep the bag near your center of gravity, and not out to one side you can completely remove the bag from the effects of the wind. I actually have a 2-ended little plastic hook that clips on to the rear waistband of my jeans, and allows a carrier bag (or 3!) to hang from the back of me - I have found that to completely negate the effects of wind because your own body blocks it from reaching the bag(s), and its (their) centered position means it is never dragging you off in one direction or another - it just stays nicely in the middle and leaves both my hands free in the event of a crash.

20 hours ago, Smoother said:

But seriously. When the wind blows here at the beach it knocks me all over the place, I'm not having fun, and I can't hear the music coming from my Kingsong speakers, so I call it a day.  Just like my Paramotoring, if I'm not enjoying it I won't do it.

I do know what you mean there. I am a bit obsessed with testing wheels under difficult circumstances, but I'll agree that epic coastal wind battles can't be described as enjoyable wheeling. Challenging riding, yes, but I wouldn't want to have to do it everyday

CBR

[zlymex]

On 2016/11/17 at 8:21 PM, Cerbera said:

I am going out in it again now  Anyway, so what are your thoughts on Gotways and high wind ? Are there any other techniques you guys have found for minimizing the problems ?

One way is to sit ride or crouch ride to reduce the section area.
 

[Cerbera]

8 hours ago, zlymex said:

One way is to sit ride or crouch ride to reduce the section area.

Hmmm. I suspect that might radically lessen one's ability to control and correct for powerful eddies of wind. Also might make us look like proper plonkers

[Greg Spalding]

10 hours ago, zlymex said:

One way is to sit ride or crouch ride to reduce the section area.
 

as above...

crouching isn't really a great idea (ask folks how nearly impossible it is to control a K-S 18 while seated)

1.  it makes your body into a SAIL.... giving MORE wind resistance from the front.... by a large margin.

2.  the wheel is FAR less stable because you have lowered your center of gravity to just above that of the wheel meaning you have less control of the wheel by minimal body movements.

3.  you aren't ready for sudden needs for shifting weight... if you come to something in the middle of the road you are far more likely to crash before being able to stand and sudden WEAVES are nearly impossible with the crouching body orientation.

 

no offense intended... of course

_______________________________

of course, you might be able to SNEAK UP ON FOLKS a bit easier when crouching 

[zlymex]

By my preliminary tests, wind drag is the most negative factor for range. 

An EUC on its own consume certain amount of energy, even bigger than the tire resistance power, and can be tested by monitoring the current drain of the battery from lift test.

Chart below is for 75kg rider of Msuper V3 at tire pressure 3.0 bar, flat road, no wind.
 

[zlymex]

39 minutes ago, Greg Spalding said:

as above...

crouching isn't really a great idea (ask folks how nearly impossible it is to control a K-S 18 while seated)

1.  it makes your body into a SAIL.... giving MORE wind resistance from the front.... by a large margin.

2.  the wheel is FAR less stable because you have lowered your center of gravity to just above that of the wheel meaning you have less control of the wheel by minimal body movements.

3.  you aren't ready for sudden needs for shifting weight... if you come to something in the middle of the road you are far more likely to crash before being able to stand and sudden WEAVES are nearly impossible with the crouching body orientation.

 

no offense intended... of course

_______________________________

of course, you might be able to SNEAK UP ON FOLKS a bit easier when crouching 

It's true crouching is difficult, but it does save energy also because the wind speed is lower below 1meter.

Few people are able crouching even they practiced, that's one way to show off

[MaxLinux]

15 hours ago, Cerbera said:

I have found that if you keep the bag near your center of gravity, and not out to one side you can completely remove the bag from the effects of the wind.

In the case of plastic grocery bags, if you hold them normally with your arms hanging down, the bags act like a sail and catch the wind. This can quickly disrupt your balance. Also, plastic grocery bags tend to swing, creating shifting weight that can quickly make the EUC unstable. I hold the bags close against my body in the center. I also wrap them around my hand as much as possible to minimize swinging. I usually hook my thumb over my belt to help keep the bags close to my body and as motionless as possible. Even with these tips in mind, I find that I ride significantly better when not carrying bags in my hands. I like to clip a folding backpack to my belt loop on the way to the store, then unfold the backpack and use it to carry the groceries home.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00DHIZ85E/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I recorded one of my EUC shopping trips during the summer. Opening and loading the folding backpack is at 29:00.

 

 

 

[Cerbera]

 

23 minutes ago, zlymex said:

It's true crouching is difficult, but it does save energy also because the wind speed is lower below 1meter.

Not where I ride it isn't - it's coming directly off the sea from ground level up, in a solid wall of turbulence  Crouching here, even if practised, is a guaranteed crash, I reckon...

13 minutes ago, MaxLinux said:

I hold the bags close against my body in the center. I also wrap them around my hand as much as possible to minimize swinging. I usually hook my thumb over my belt to help keep the bags close to my body and as motionless as possible

Yeah, it's good advice. On an MS3, carrying a heavy shopping bag can help you go uphill faster - just hold it out in front of you !

[Smoother]

2 hours ago, zlymex said:

By my preliminary tests, wind drag is the most negative factor for range. 

An EUC on its own consume certain amount of energy, even bigger than the tire resistance power, and can be tested by monitoring the current drain of the battery from lift test.

Chart below is for 75kg rider of Msuper V3 at tire pressure 3.0 bar, flat road, no wind.
 

True, wind resistance does consume  a lot of power, and true any given wind moves faster, the further away from the, drag inducing, earths surface it is (within reason). Any aviator knows this.  I once took off in my paramotor, in a gentle wind, but by the time I was 300 feet up, although my wing was going forward at about 22 mph, the ground was also going forward ( not backward as one would expect) at about 20 mph, which, if you subtract my forward speed means I was trying to penetrate a 42 mph wind.  Needless to say, I descended and landed quickly.  If it's not fun, I won't do it.

nice chart.

@Cerbera yes . I suppose 1 m and 1.8m makes no practical difference.  Solid wall of turbulence? Nice!  Not.

[Greg Spalding]

6 hours ago, zlymex said:

It's true crouching is difficult, but it does save energy also because the wind speed is lower below 1meter.

Few people are able crouching even they practiced, that's one way to show off

And 54 years of age I have trouble standing up after crouching in the hallway of my office.... LOL

I'll have to work on this

thank you for the suggestion

[zlymex]

1 hour ago, Greg Spalding said:

And 54 years of age I have trouble standing up after crouching in the hallway of my office.... LOL

I'll have to work on this

thank you for the suggestion

You know what, I'm older.

I've just finished a trip of 16km in windy winter, with some crouching positions. http://www.imxingzhe.com/xing/18266637/

[Greg Spalding]

1 hour ago, zlymex said:

You know what, I'm older.

I've just finished a trip of 16km in windy winter, with some crouching positions. http://www.imxingzhe.com/xing/18266637/

Wow!

That is one awesome trip... You are very brave and that really must have been something. Wish I had been there to experience that with you

Thanks for the link

[Citi Wheel]

On 11/17/2016 at 7:21 AM, Cerbera said:

My airwheel was quite good in strong wind. If the wind was behind you or towards you control was pretty excellent - less so if it's coming at you from the side. Most of the time I could stay on it, and even tolerate powerful sideways blasts by zig-zagging across it to avoid being blown off.

So I had imagined that the Gotway MS3, with its heavier weight, fatter tyre, and stable ride authority would do equally well, if not better in 50 mph+ wind. Well I was wrong about that

The infamous 'rock zone' - the null area around the center of gravity becomes something of an issue in strong headwind. The wind I was in this morning was strong enough to make my pedals rock back and forth like nobody's business, which very much didn't help my forward motion. Sideswipes by the wind seem to upset the stability of the tyre on the ground more, sending me wobbly, rather more easily than what happened with my old 14 incher in similar conditions.

Lastly, with wind full against you, the wheel doesn't like being pushed forwards, and feels like it is struggling to exert itself with any authority. I found I could improve things slightly by rotating my body so that I was more side-on to the wind, and offering minimum profile to air drag, but even so, that was quite hard going !

I am going out in it again now  Anyway, so what are your thoughts on Gotways and high wind ? Are there any other techniques you guys have found for minimizing the problems ?

CBR

 

 

I haven't tested this technique in strong winds, but sitting down significantly decreased the regular wind resistance at 30+ kph.

[Dancer]

My wind driving way:

When the wind is coming from the right, I straighten my left leg and bend my right leg a little bit. The cushion then presses against my left leg and I catch the winds by moving my right foot up or down. My left leg remains straight and secured against the cushion.

When the wind comes from the left, I do everything reversed.

[Smoother]

@Cerbera it sounds like the wind, pushing your body backwards, is reducing your ability to apply pressure to the front of the pedals.  Maybe try moving your feet forward by an inch from your normal position and see if that compensates.

[MaxLinux]

On 11/17/2016 at 7:21 AM, Cerbera said:

My airwheel was quite good in strong wind.

I can also recommend the IPS Lhotz for great wind stability. I think the wide 2.5 inch tire is the main reason. I have been impressed many times by the confidence this provides in gusty conditions. 

[The Fat Unicyclist]

49 minutes ago, MaxLinux said:

I can also recommend the IPS Lhotz for great wind stability. I think the wide 2.5 inch tire is the main reason. I have been impressed many times by the confidence this provides in gusty conditions. 

I'll second that - Wellington is known for its wind (so much so that when we went to Chicago, we just laughed)... And the Lhotz just seems immune to it! 

It does have an impact on range, but not at all for performance!