Alien Rides Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 Update: After a long while, I've gotten some replacement hardware from Gotway directly. Thanks to everyone for commenting and for the support. I'm looking forward to riding my revamped ACM! ------------------------------------ I've been riding an ACM for a few weeks now, and while it has high potential, I I think it could be even better with some improvements. Here's a few suggestions: Tiny Pedals The pedals are way too small. I believe Gotway is currently trying to create a bigger one, but it seems that it might not be big enough. Ideally the new pedals are NB1 sized or bigger. Maybe it would be possible to put MSuper pedals on the ACM? The black grip on the pedals also wears out quite quickly, and soon you won't have much grip left at all. I'm afraid I might start slipping off soon, especially in wet conditions. (This might be solved with new red grips?) Pic from @tremF: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1mrwOQYqr4gRWxndFNyU1NzVkE/view Low speed cutouts I've had the ACM cut out several times at low speed. Either when just starting out or going over a small hill/bump. It's quite scary/frustrating when it happens because it's completely out of your control. I have not seen this behavior with other wheels. Battery/Distance Gotway mentions that you're supposed to get 60-80km on the 820wh battery, I'm not sure how it's measured but I'm only getting around half of that. ~25 miles or so on a full charge. I am a bit heavier, about 95kg or so. Case Quality There's a lot of screws to remove to be able to open up the shell. The screws that the gotway ships with are fairly weak and easily stripped. There's been several people reporting stripped screws stuck in the case, and there's no easy way to get them out because the screws and standoffs are very thin. Pic from @TremF: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1mrwOQYqr4gT1RLWEQyWXlrRDg/view The decision to put the tire valve behind two screws is also strange to me, though I suppose it could make a nicer aesthetic. Wheel Comfort The pedals on the ACM are fairly high which allow for nice sharp turns without scraping the bottoms of them. The body of the ACM is fairly boxy though, and is one of the least comfortable wheels I have ridden. My calves are a bit bigger and the pressure that the top of the EUC places on them is pretty painful. I'm going to try to add multiple layers of padding to the top of the shell to see if that helps. (In my experience the KS 18-A is the most comfortable wheel I've ridden.) Non-integrated trolly handle At nearly 40 lbs, the ACM is quite heavy. A trolly handle would be a nice addition as it would allow you to maneuver your wheel through stores without the pain of lugging it around. Unfortunately the after-thought trolly handle is unsightly and requires you to screw into the plastic case. Many people complain that the screws end up quite close to the wheel. I think that the KS16 got the integrated trolly handle perfect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve454 Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 11 minutes ago, Kevin Grandon said: I've had the ACM cut out several times at low speed. Either when just starting out or going over a small hill/bump. It's quite scary/frustrating when it happens because it's completely out of your control. I have not seen this behavior with other wheels @TremF said the same thing happened to him. Now that two ACM's have done that I wonder if that could be in the firmware to help you deal with a high speed cutoff by letting a person experience it at low safe speed. Were you able to land on your feet or did it shoot out from under you so fast you fell? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve454 Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 17 minutes ago, Kevin Grandon said: ~25 miles or so on a full charge. I am a bit heavier, about 95kg or so. Wow, that seems pretty good to me. My Ninebot app says 18 miles on a full charge. Not sure how accurate it is, probably at my weight,190 pounds, it is a lot less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cloud Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 @Kevin Grandon. Sorry about the bad experience with the ACM. Some of the items you are reporting are major, like the cut outs and the pedals size. The rest of them , i believe, are minor amd most euc owners face the same issues with other wheels and there is an easy fix for that. For example, the rubber on the pedal will wear out and most people come up with ways to increase traction by covering the oedals with something, like grip tape. The battery mileages is always about half of the advertized range and your range is consistent with the other wheels. I am the same weight as you and also get 25 miles on a 840 wh battery from a kingsong wheel. There is normally a bunch of screws to remove whenopening the case on any wheel, so comparatively this is not a disadvantage, trolley handle again is minor compared to the good operation of the wheel. I actually prefer to have a non integrated trolley handle - there is one available for acm. Intergared vs non intergrated doesnt make or break the wheel, its not that much of a serious advantage, so , in my opinion, from your list of minuses, only the cut out is serious - but this cant be the norm. Perhaps your wheel is faulty? It shouldnt cut out by design. Small pedal size is a minus for sure, hope Gotway can come up with bigger pedals. I guess body boxiness could be an issue too but could be sometiphing one can get used to. I dont think its much bigger than Ks 16 or KS 14. so hopefully when the power cut out issue is sorted out, and if you get a more comfortable pedals, your impression of it could change. A lot of it seems to be a matter of perception, and doesnt look that bad in comparison with other wheels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alien Rides Posted July 10, 2016 Author Share Posted July 10, 2016 12 minutes ago, steve454 said: @TremF said the same thing happened to him. Now that two ACM's have done that I wonder if that could be in the firmware to help you deal with a high speed cutoff by letting a person experience it at low safe speed. Were you able to land on your feet or did it shoot out from under you so fast you fell? I've noticed the cut outs at lower speeds, < 10mph or so. So far I've been able to catch myself both times, but it's still possible to be injured at those low speeds. There's a new mainboard with 12 mosfests, hard to say but possible it would fix it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cloud Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 9 minutes ago, steve454 said: Wow, that seems pretty good to me. My Ninebot app says 18 miles on a full charge. Not sure how accurate it is, probably at my weight,190 pounds, it is a lot less. Isnt your ninebot 340wh battery vs his 840wh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alien Rides Posted July 10, 2016 Author Share Posted July 10, 2016 3 minutes ago, Cloud said: The rest of them , i believe, are minor amd most euc owners face the same issues with other wheels and there is an easy fix for that I disagree that we should settle for lower quality products because we can fix them ourselves. If we want to have nicer wheels we need to provide feedback so better wheels are made. Don't settle for something sub-par. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve454 Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 59 minutes ago, Cloud said: Isnt your ninebot 340wh battery vs his 840wh? Yes, if I ever get a new wheel it has to have a bigger battery. I rode about 7 1/2 miles today on gravel trails mostly with some fairly steep hills, never thought I'd ride that long a time in one day. My knees are a little sore, but found this trail system that goes for miles and am finally trusting the Ninebot not to cut out. Still wear the helmet and full fingered gloves with built in wristguards though. But actually I am more than happy with my 340 wh battery. I rode a long time and had a lot of fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cloud Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 Yeah i agree with this. We shouldnt settle, we should of course provide feedback , no question about it. Im just saying that in comparison with the other wheels a lot of these items are on the same level. And one's satisfation is not an absolute value - it is perception based compared to other available choices. For example, i want to be as comfortable riding my wheel as i am driving my car. But at this point it is not achieved with any euc. So i am quite content with the comfort of riding my wheel, understanding that this is the level of comform currently attainable across many different eucs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve454 Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 12 hours ago, Kevin Grandon said: I've noticed the cut outs at lower speeds, < 10mph or so. Uh Oh, I think @TremF said his cutouts occurred almost at a standstill, while taking off. This sounds different and much more dangerous. I am glad you were not hurt. 12 hours ago, Cloud said: in comparison with the other wheels a lot of these items are on the same level. And one's satisfation is not an absolute value - it is perception based compared to other available choices. I agree with you, and I hope that the feedback this forum gives is helping people. It has helped me a lot in learning to ride, fixing problems, and making it a better experience. My NB1 is great, I love it, and I don't want to hurt it. But so far, it keeps working very well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alien Rides Posted July 11, 2016 Author Share Posted July 11, 2016 1 hour ago, Cloud said: There is normally a bunch of screws to remove whenopening the case on any wheel, so comparatively this is not a disadvantag The number of screws is not bad, but the design could be much better, more like modern a computer shell for example. The bad part is the screw stripping, which leaves my current case barely attached in some places and probably needing to be replaced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linnea Veteran Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 Thanks to @Kevin Grandon to post up the problems with our wheels for us to have a chance to improve our wheels. 1. Pedal problems: We are designing bigger pedals now to make it more comfortable to ride. 2. Low speed cut off problem: Take the wheel to your local distributor to have a check with main board. 3. Battery and distance problem: ACM is powerful model with 1500W power, and fast speed, the faster you ride, more electric it will consume, so the range should be shorter. 4. Screws on shells problem: Other riders have reflect this problem several days ago, we have already improve quality of these screws to avoid such problem. 5. Wheel comfort: Leg pad for ACM is soft enough to avoid heavy painful feeling for riders. But it is sure that position of leg pad on ACM will fit to every one's leg as somebody is tall and their leg is higher than pads position. This problem will be solved in a way after we make a bigger pedals for it. 6. Trolley handle problem: Consider the structure of the wheel, we finally made the trolley handle out. No doubt that most riders are not satisfied with it, but we did really try our best to do it better. We welcome any suggestion for ACM trolley handle if someone have a good idea with it. Thanks! BTW, our Msuper V3 will have build- in trolley handle. In a word, thanks to @Kevin Grandon to post up these problem for us to improve our wheels! Every bean has its black,but we keep improving our wheels! Thanks for all who support us all the time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TremF Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 The cut out, rubber grips and weak screws issues can be sorted by your seller/distributor. I am presuming you have contacted them? I think you mentioned that you have quite a few broken screws which possibly means needing a new case? I'm not sure if this is covered but it should be! For you it may be easier them replacing the whole thing rather than the case, pedals and board which is most of the ACM. I'm not sure if Gotway are providing full new pedals from their new design or just the rubber grips to previous buyers. I am presuming just the grips but hopefully the pedals should be available soon at a good price for anyone wanting to upgrade them. Compared to my Ninebot I too am finding the ACM a little bulky and uncomfortable when leaning it to turn but I'm getting used to it. The battery / distance thing is probably about right. I did a range test one day and got around 25 miles BUT I was riding quite fast at times and over various terrains and hills - also I didn't keep going until the pedals tilted back to slow me so I may have got a few more miles if I could cope with the beeps. If you look at the battery meter on the app while riding you will see how much it can fluctuate while riding at speed but if you cruise along gently it stays more stable and will likely cover more miles. I intend to do another range test soon trying to keep to a steady cruising speed but there's not much I can do about the terrains / hills I ride. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 8 hours ago, Kevin Grandon said: I've noticed the cut outs at lower speeds, < 10mph or so. So far I've been able to catch myself both times, but it's still possible to be injured at those low speeds. There's a new mainboard with 12 mosfests, hard to say but possible it would fix it. the cutouts at lower speed should not come from mosfets....these normally only get problems under very heavy load, example: heavy person, long up hill ride...the 12 mosfet is more for extreme situations... cutouts at lower speeds or general cutouts at any speed can happen from bad solder points or completly bad mother boards... check with your seller, this behaviour is not ok at all, and i would give back such a wheel! i would not trust it at all... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alien Rides Posted July 12, 2016 Author Share Posted July 12, 2016 On 7/11/2016 at 1:01 AM, KingSong69 said: the cutouts at lower speed should not come from mosfets....these normally only get problems under very heavy load, example: heavy person, long up hill ride...the 12 mosfet is more for extreme situations... One type of low speed cut out I have noticed is that the wheel appears to lose power after a small bump, but this is fairly rare and doesn't always happen. My thought was that the the board could not supply enough power for some reason, maybe because of a sudden demand for power, instead of a gradual ramp up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 4 minutes ago, Kevin Grandon said: One type of low speed cut out I have noticed is that the wheel appears to lose power after a small bump, but this is fairly rare and doesn't always happen. My thought was that the the board could not supply enough power for some reason, maybe because of a sudden demand for power, instead of a gradual ramp up. whatever you have mentioned... This all would lead me to not trust my wheel anymore...completly cut power on low speed occasions? ok...sometimes with a bump...but cut outs in general are a "no way" to happen...my two cents... i received a Ks18 just yesterday...and i would not ride it if it would go to cut out on me ...even when it is at low speed... i would search until i have the fault..... because there where some reports on high speed cut outs on the ks18 1200 watt...(but i also heard of more people who had never problems)....i iam very, very careful and suspicious this first days....but if MY would really come up with cut outs...it would go into the corner as long as the problems are resolved/fixed ...like i said...my 2 cents... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OliverH Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 The cut off and the pedals still prevents me from ordering ACMs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alien Rides Posted July 13, 2016 Author Share Posted July 13, 2016 6 hours ago, KingSong69 said: This all would lead me to not trust my wheel anymore...completly cut power on low speed occasions? I find I am trusting my ACM less and less and riding my KS-18 more often these days. Sad that Gotway won't help me with the issue either =( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 I wonder if there could be a cold solder joint or loose connection causing the slight power loss over bumps? Does it do it if you ride down a sharp curb, or is it only when riding up over a bump? Did you buy it directly from Gotway or was it through a third party? @Linnea Lin Gotway, @Jane Mo was able to help @TremF. I know every situation can be different and there can be a couple of different sides to each story, but it sounds like Kevin has similar problems to TremF? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 4 hours ago, Kevin Grandon said: I find I am trusting my ACM less and less and riding my KS-18 more often these days. Sad that Gotway won't help me with the issue either =( whats with your distributor/direct seller? cant he help a bit, like try a new board or something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TremF Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 5 hours ago, Kevin Grandon said: I find I am trusting my ACM less and less and riding my KS-18 more often these days. Sad that Gotway won't help me with the issue either =( Definitely speak to your seller. They should be sorting this for you. Gray Goodbarn of Yorkshire Airwheels Ltd has been fantastic help for me and has ordered the replacement board and pedal grips. I replaced the screws myself rather than him possibly pay more in postage than they cost but he did offer to send them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tadrossi Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 17 hours ago, OliverH said: The cut off and the pedals still prevents me from ordering ACMs. I had similar reservations after reading this forum about my mcm4 but after owning it for about a month now I am staring to feel like the posts on this forum are a bit hypercritical and may be due to a bias towards the kingsong lines of wheels. I couldn't be more happy with my Gotway and plan on purchasing either the acm16 or the new MsuperV3 that just got posted. Each wheel is different, just like cars. You don't expect the same things from a pickup truck and a camry. Each wheel has characteristics that are unique and takes time to learn. All of my wheels are different. I have 3. The screws and rubber are valid points but I'm sure that they will be address as the model matures. Cutouts should not happen but at this point I have seen to many people with no problems with the ACM 16 on the web for this to be the norm. Just my 2cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 I certainly hope you're right as it is true that we tend to hear more about problems posted than positives, but to have two forum members from different parts of the world mention similar problems sounds like more than a coincidence. If you ever buy one and start off at the top of a very steep hill with other pedestrians walking down, be sure to let us know if you make it down okay every time. I don't think there's a bias towards any certain brand of wheel in the forum. Look at @TremF - he started wih a glowing review about Gotway and then ran into problems. If a wheel is going to randomly fail on you, you're not going to have a lot of confidence in it after a while regardless of what brand it is. @Cloud has had overheating issues with his KingSong, and just look at the KS faceplant posts as well as Ninebot controller/firmware issues. I personally wish we all had wheels that were 100% reliable as our personal safety and that of those around us rely on our wheels to perform well. Unexplained failures can only hurt the hobby and lead to potential injuries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TremF Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 I'm definitely not biased against Gotway. I enjoyed my Ninebot (the only other EUC I have owned and tried) but it was seriously lacking in range and they haven't headed in the direction I wanted with their new releases. I have never owned a Kingsong and am not biased towards it. To me the wheels I would likely be interested in from Kingsong are either too big for my liking (KS18) or have annoying colourful lights that can't be turned off (KS16). I think things like LED rings look tacky and don't suit me. Thankfully they could be turned off on my Ninebot and the ACM only has 5 colourful LED's on the back that I can't see so can live with. I love the ACM, despite it's little niggles, because they are being sorted (new board and rubber grips arriving soon) and when it works it is fast, smooth, powerful and importantly for me - can do many miles More if I just slow down! hehe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 1 hour ago, tadrossi said: I had similar reservations after reading this forum about my mcm4 but after owning it for about a month now I am staring to feel like the posts on this forum are a bit hypercritical and may be due to a bias towards the kingsong lines of wheels. I couldn't be more happy with my Gotway and plan on purchasing either the acm16 or the new MsuperV3 that just got posted. Each wheel is different, just like cars. You don't expect the same things from a pickup truck and a camry. Each wheel has characteristics that are unique and takes time to learn. All of my wheels are different. I have 3. The screws and rubber are valid points but I'm sure that they will be address as the model matures. Cutouts should not happen but at this point I have seen to many people with no problems with the ACM 16 on the web for this to be the norm. Just my 2cents. I think this Forum is very neutral!!! you should have seen Gotway/KingSong bashing on the Facebook group :-) I read as much as i can before i go for a wheel....and also to this Forum in our Country we have at 2 sellers/distributors, which only get a new wheel into Programm if ...lets call it " is ready for PrimeTime"....They both waited until the 12Mosfet Version and i think that is not because in the meantime they do not want to make Money, they just wait until the first Version Errors are not existing anymore, and they do that on both brands KS and Gotway :-) Also i want to say that, when i say to Kevin i would not trust the wheel anymore...i mean especially HIS ACM...not Gotway ACM in General....for me it seams to be a good wheel, just with some starter probs.... But his wheel seams to cut out a Little bit more...and that is a no go.....for me at least Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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