KS16A clicking noise while idle

[WaveCut]

Hi there. A friend of mine got KS16A recently, I just checked it out, but he noticed something strange.
There is a click noise coming from the inside, while EUC is idle and turned on, when it moves there is no clicks or they're just masked by the motor and env. sounds.

Listen here: http://rghost.ru/7GZgLFcZq

Any thoughts?

[SlowMo]

That could be a sign of another loose washer inside the motor which was left by an exhausted worker.

[Chriull]

I have a ks16 at home too and i assume that these are the switching currents amplified and played by the loudspeaker. (Internal interference/coupling between the audio and the motor driver electronics)

Imho the clicks are the change between forward and backward direction. So they are gone, once the ks moves in one direction.

[Frankman]

@WaveCut Do you hear any click if you turn the wheel by your hand when the wheel is switched off?

[Chriull]

Just listened to your recording again at home - sounds exactly as mine. Is your "clicking noise" also of quite low volume (almost only hearable in quiet surroundings)?  I also won't call that sound "click", but more like some kind of sparkling as from loose contacts.

I am still quite 99,99% sure thats "just" the interference between the power part and the amplifier to be hear in the loudspeaker - as with mine. And to be exact, this intereference does not come, like a have written before from the current through the drivers/motor but the current change when switched on/off and mainly, as it sounds, from the current slopes when changing direction. When idling/standing still the wheel is balancing and quite permanently changing the motor direction.

But in any case i would follow the hints from @Frankmanand @SlowMoand look for something loose to be sure that you can rule that out.

[WaveCut]

I revceived confirmation from another KS16A owner, who had detached his loudspeaker, that he have no clicks since then, so it seems to be the reason. Thanks all!
 

[Chriull]

Just now, WaveCut said:

I revceived confirmation from another KS16A owner, who had detached his loudspeaker, that he have no sounds, so it seems to be the reason. Thanks all!
 

Could you ask him, if the high pitched (PWM) noise got noticable lower while riding with the speakers detached?

[WaveCut]

Just now, Chriull said:

Could you ask him, if the high pitched (PWM) noise got noticable lower while riding with the speakers detached?

also he got his controller burnt on a days, so... let him replace one

[SlowMo]

15 minutes ago, WaveCut said:

also he got his controller burnt on a days, so... let him replace one

How did he manage to burn his KS-16 controller?

[WaveCut]

No special nor edge case: he was riding over the wooden branch as usually, and device shut down at the moment.

[SlowMo]

17 minutes ago, WaveCut said:

No special nor edge case: he was riding over the wooden branch as usually, and device shut down at the moment.

This is the first time that I heard a KS-16 controller burned. Maybe due to huge power spikes during jumping on tree roots that heated the board and cannot be cooled by the built in fan. 

[Chriull]

7 hours ago, Chriull said:

...

I am still quite 99,99% sure thats "just" the interference between the power part and the amplifier to be hear in the loudspeaker - as with mine. And to be exact, this intereference does not come, like a have written before from the current through the drivers/motor but the current change when switched on/off and mainly, as it sounds, from the current slopes when changing direction. When idling/standing still the wheel is balancing and quite permanently changing the motor direction.

...

I wanted to add, that the interference is just an idea and by no way prooven - could be that just the motor is "playing" the sound as unfortionately also the (main part) of the PWM noise, but since

4 hours ago, WaveCut said:

I revceived confirmation from another KS16A owner, who had detached his loudspeaker, that he have no clicks since then, so it seems to be the reason. Thanks all!
 

there could be some truth within it. Hopefully this KS16 owner can give us more info once he receives his new motherboard! Would be really great.

[WaveCut]

My friend will detach speakers to test that theory and I'll post an update then.

[WakefulTraveller]

I've heard a report of the board to the KS 16a burning from climbing a a 25 degree slope. I'm thinking that the ACM16, with the more powerful motor, can handle overheating issues better. The ACM has this beefed up heat sink, and the board seems to be just fine at 90 degrees Celsius with the alarm going off at 80 degrees.

[Jeffrey Scott Will]

15 minutes ago, WakefulTraveller said:

I've heard a report of the board to the KS 16a burning from climbing a a 25 degree slope. I'm thinking that the ACM16, with the more powerful motor, can handle overheating issues better. The ACM has this beefed up heat sink, and the board seems to be just fine at 90 degrees Celsius with the alarm going off at 80 degrees.

Forgive my lack of any engineering background, but don't more powerful motors put more potential heat stress on components?

[SlowMo]

3 minutes ago, Jeffrey Scott Will said:

Forgive my lack of any engineering background, but don't more powerful motors put more potential heat stress on components?

Yes but Gotway is managing to control overheating issues better.

[Jeffrey Scott Will]

Just now, SlowMo said:

Yes but Gotway is managing to control overheating issues better.

Didn't they just pause production on ACM to redesign the heatsink since the initial design on the first batch was not enough? Sounds like they both don't know how to manage heat from the extra power just yet. 

[Jason McNeil]

Tina says that there were two cases of fuse blowing in the KS16s & "we have increased the current in firmware, so this issue will be updated." which presumably mean they have a handle on this issue, only time will tell....

31 minutes ago, WakefulTraveller said:

board seems to be just fine at 90 degrees Celsius

But can the other components reliably handle this sort of temperature, what about the melting point of the plastic?

[WakefulTraveller]

@Jason McNeil If the high temperature of an overclocked CPU are anything to go by, then I think yes, with efficient cooling and the proper isolation of the components, temperatures at around 90 degrees Celcius shouldn't be a threat, at least on the short term. My biggest concern is the rise of ambient temperatures within the case. The BMS to the battery packs have overheating protection as well, so one of two will lead to the control board telling the rider to take it easy.

I  was considering buying a white EUC so that the ambient temperatures would be a little bit lower when out in the sun, but I ended up with going with the all black version for the looks of it.

[Jason McNeil]

4 minutes ago, WakefulTraveller said:

overclocked CPU are anything to go by, then I think yes, with efficient cooling and the proper isolation of the components, temperatures at around 90 degrees Celcius won't be a threat

Maybe, but a BSOD typically doesn't result in a visit to the hospital   No manufacturer that I am aware of has any sort of intelligent data channel from the BMS to the control board; if there is a temperature sensor embedded on the BMS, it's most likely going to kill power than any short of independent alarm.

The QC budget of any mainstream PC maker going to be the equivalent of the total annual sales volume of a GW or KS. 

[WakefulTraveller]

@Jason McNeil I'm not really sure how the overheating protection to these BMS boards is managed. It might just lower the power throughput or something like that. I'd like to know myself. It's conceivable that signals could be sent through the power cables, but that's a far fetched idea.

[SlowMo]

I think the best thing for now is to wait for further revisions of these 16 inchers before deciding to buy. There is always some sort of of problems with rushed initial batches and the end users are always the ones suffering as beta testers.

[esaj]

7 minutes ago, SlowMo said:

I think the best thing for now is to wait for further revisions of these 16 inchers before deciding to buy. There is always some sort of of problems with rushed initial batches and the end users are always the ones suffering as beta testers.

My thoughts exactly, I've just been waiting for a good 16-inch model for my next wheel, but am having constant second thoughts due to all these issues... and we have very short summer after all    Maybe I should just order new shells for the Firewheel... Or get off my lazy ass, and fix the current ones with some epoxy or something   They don't close properly, as the "screw poles"/Ialwaysforgetwhattheyrecalled got cracked in the crash when the BMSs cut out. Plus my packs are currently away to have the BMSs changed (which I had all winter to get dealt with, but didn't send them until last week, so again my own fault ).

[Ecko]

Back to topic......today i disconnected the speakers of my KS-16 and i can report that this electric spark sounds are not from the speakers. They are coming from inside of the motor. 

[bjornhallberg]

Yeah ... I do recall reading somewhere on this forum that it is indeed an engine sound, like when it is idling, trying to get torque. Sounds like a geiger counter. I have this on mine as well.

 

" Update: Jason McNeil was correct on this one: The fan turns on at 50°C! The "broken ball bearings" sound is coming from the engine and are torque “bursts” causing minute flexings within the wheel resulting as audible “ticking” noise!!! "