techyiam Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 1 hour ago, Rawnei said: highest cell is 4.223V, lowest 4.168, 44 minutes ago, Rawnei said: overcharged cells and one cell lagging behind quite a bit. It is somewhat disconcerning to see such high cell imbalance of 73 mV between highest and lowest cell voltages, and cell voltages over 4.23 V. With my S22, the BMS would issue a warning if any cell voltage exceeds 4.23 V. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UniVehje Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 It does seem like something’s not right with cell balancing 🤔 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rawnei Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 (edited) It's slowly balancing. This is my first real charge other than just testing that the charger works since I got the wheel. Current state of charge (charger disconnected): Edited February 24 by Rawnei 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peytole Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 (edited) ce n'est pas grave, 0,06 max.c'est problématique à partir de 0,3 volts. roulez et déchargez à 30%. La prochaine charge sera déjà meilleure. Attendez toujours un peu avant de vous brancher. Les BMS intelligents sont un pas en avant mais peuvent vous rendre paranoïaque. Revenez nous dire ce qui se passe la prochaine fois. Edited February 24 by peytole Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tep Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 5 hours ago, Rawnei said: Did a 45km group ride today and pushed top speed couple of times, my EUC World alarm at 80% PWM/20% safety margin triggered around 60kmh (multiple times), it's difficult for me to hear beeps over wind and helmet but I don't think wheel was beeping and I couldn't really feel my tiltback which I have set at 74% PWM. My guess is that EUC World doesn't have full support for the Lynx yet and the PWM value we see in EUC World is not the wheel reported one but a calculation which does not match wheel PWM, maybe @Seba can clarify this? I don't think EUCWorld alarm to support this wheel 100% at the moment. Also have seen it mentioned somewhere that 50E Lynx will trigger EUCWorld alarm earlier due to higher voltage sag. That being said, I only use wheel alarm, it's audible enough to hear with a motorcycle helmet, will definitely be harder to hear if I wear an open face helmet. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UniVehje Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 48 minutes ago, peytole said: ce n'est pas grave, 0,06 max.c'est problématique à partir de 0,3 volts. roulez et déchargez à 30%. La prochaine charge sera déjà meilleure. Attendez toujours un peu avant de vous brancher. Les BMS intelligents sont un pas en avant mais peuvent vous rendre paranoïaque. Revenez nous dire ce qui se passe la prochaine fois. Please edit your post and write only in English on this forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rawnei Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 1 hour ago, Tep said: I don't think EUCWorld alarm to support this wheel 100% at the moment. Also have seen it mentioned somewhere that 50E Lynx will trigger EUCWorld alarm earlier due to higher voltage sag. That makes no sense both 50E and 50S has voltage sag, if EUC World is not using the value sent by the weal it's doing guesswork by guessing the PWM that is why it's off, also I have the 50S version. Hopefully @Seba already working on the implementation. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forwardnbak Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 Mine has been overcharging in similar ways. I am testing the PIDZOOM prototype for Lynx at the moment to cut it from overcharge. Also don’t seem to see cell balancing yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forwardnbak Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
novazeus Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 (edited) can u monitor the bms while the wheel is charging? like u can on a s22 or v13? i ask because the s22 has the same manufacturer of chargers and one of my chargers cuts off early and the other charger slightly overcharges but the cells balance quickly. the charger that came with the first wheel, same charger, wouldn't push the first wheel to 100% on both packs. 2nd charger, np. too hot. i gotta make my electrons out here so i'm real stingy. Edited February 25 by novazeus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rawnei Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 Expected it to balance cells overnight but low cell still remains high cells got drained. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriull Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 (edited) 17 hours ago, Rawnei said: Any consensus on the overcharging? My Lynx currently at end of charge phase highest cell is 4.223V, lowest 4.168, mostly concerned about the 4.2V+ but aware that sensors at can be off. You'r lynx has notable unbalanced cells! So some cells reaching above 4.2V is "normal" - they likely reached the single cell overvoltage threshold and caused the bms to prematurely cut off charging: Your first battery stats show 151,7V: 4.235V - 4.162V (*) The second ~1 h later: 151,6V: 4.233V - 4.172V (*) Your first step should be to let the bms do it's work and balance as much as it can before riding again. If this is a normal top passive balancing bms all the cells above 4.2V will be discharged to somewhere around 4.2V (or a bit below). With 0,1V beeing roughly 5-10% of full charge this 0.03V could be about 1,5-3% of 5Ah ~ 75-150mAh. With 140 Ohm balancing resistors discharging 150mAh could take about 50h at ~4.2V ... After this step the "high voltage" cells are settled, but the low voltage cells still not charged full. So you should repeat this cycle (charging and waiting for the high voltage cells to settle to ~4.2V again) until all cells are balanced. It could help this "balancing cycles" if you discharge by riding the cells a little bit (to some 4.19V - measured after 5-10 min resting) after waiting for the "high voltage cells" to 4.2V and before charging the battery again. Can you take a charge graph with EUC World? Could it be that your charger delivers a too high voltage? If so the balancing stage during charging is extremely shortened as there will ve no cv stage. The cells would just be charged with full current until single cell overvoltage cut off is engaged - one does not want to stress cells like this continuously. Remember to "adjust" your voltage reading - if you use a volt meter compare how much the reading is when your wheel reports the 151,7V, divide this measurement proportional for a wheel reported voltage of 151,2V =4.2V x 36 and adjust your charger to this voltage. So if your voltmeter reads x measuring the battery while the wheel reports 151.7V you want to adjust the no load charger output voltage to a voltmeter reading of x / 151.7 x 151.2V. If you have good luck that's it - maybe cells were just not equally charged when the pack was assembled. If you have bad luck you have "very different" cells in the pack. Which is no real problem either - you have just a bit less usable capacity. Best to not discharge the battery too much! And not burden it too much once the battery charge is low! As this will stress the weakest cells even more and increase imbalance. Just check for balanced cells after every charge now and use the above recipe to ensure balance. You'll see how "far down" you can use the battery before cells get imbalanced again. (*) As ?strangely? the drop of the highest cells voltage is less as the increase of the lowest voltage cell and there is a notable increase in minimum voltage at all without charging this wheels bms could have active balancing? If so and this is not only some strange side effect forget what's written before.. (beside the charger adjustment which is important anyway!) If so the active bms should have equalized the cell voltages more or less by now?! Edit: As you posted the new stats while i wrote the post - there is definitely no active bms. It's classic passive top balancing! Continue letting the high voltage cells drain until the reached the "stop balancing threshold" somewhere at or below 4.2V and follow the procedure explained above. Edited February 25 by Chriull 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rawnei Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 4 minutes ago, Chriull said: If so the active bms should have equalized the cell voltages more or less by now?! See my post above, seems it didn't balance all that much cell remains low from wheel sitting overnight, it even went back down a bit! It seems a common occurrence people reporting their Lynx's overcharging a bit, perhaps a lot of the Lynx chargers are badly tuned delivering too much? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rawnei Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 I have a cheap multimeter, I don't know how well calibrated it is, but charger is 151.8. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriull Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 5 minutes ago, Rawnei said: See my post above, seems it didn't balance all that much cell remains low from wheel sitting overnight, it even went back down a bit! Yes - i just edited my post according to your news. The increase from 4.162V to 4.172V after charge stop seems to be just some side effect or measurement inaccuracy? 5 minutes ago, Rawnei said: It seems a common occurrence people reporting their Lynx's overcharging a bit, perhaps a lot of the Lynx chargers are badly tuned delivering too much? If the cells are out of balance some cells _have_ to be overcharged, as some others do not get full charge. So to solve this problem one can as first step balance the cells and as second step ensure that no imbalance occurs anymore (charger adjustment and no low battery charge burdening) Just now, Rawnei said: I have a cheap multimeter, I don't know how well calibrated it is, but charger is 151.8. The reading could by accident be according to the wheels reported voltage of 151,7V ?directly after charge stop?. So adjusting the charger down to 4.2Vx36=151.2 is recommendable. But better to measure battery voltage with the multimeter and calculate the needed reading for the charger adjustment. Be careful - all that's handling with potential deadly voltages! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriull Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Rawnei said: I have a cheap multimeter, I don't know how well calibrated it is, but charger is 151.8. Don't know how the lynx is designed, but often battery voltage can be measured best at the big capacitors on the motherboard. If you measure a reading u_mm V with the multimeter and the wheel reports u_w V you want to adjust your charger to a multimeter reading of u_mm / u_w * 151.2V. Edit: ensure that after the next charge the wheel reports 151.2V (or a little bit below) - if not repeat the charger adjustment! Edited February 25 by Chriull 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rawnei Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 1 minute ago, Chriull said: Don't know how the lynx is designed, but often battery voltage can be measured best at the big capacitors on the motherboard. If you measure a reading u_mm V with the multimeter and the wheel reports u_w V you want to adjust your charger to a multimeter reading of u_mm / u_w * 151.2V. Well I'm not about to open motherboard compartment 😅 I will adjust charger best I can towards 151.2V and check reported readings after a top charge. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UniVehje Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 8 minutes ago, Chriull said: But better to measure battery voltage with the multimeter and calculate the needed reading for the charger adjustment. Be careful - all that's handling with potential deadly voltages! Yeah, who would I know how to do this properly? I’m going to receive my Lynx soon and not really looking forward to opening my wheel for dangerous measurements with cheap multimeter and opening my charger to adjust voltage. All this should not be my responsibility as an owner of a brand new expensive wheel. Would something like Roger Charger (or Hou Ning) be more accurate in voltage with a display and adjustable voltage. I remember the debacle about S22 chargers needing adjustment. Lynx comes with the same charger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EUC Custom Power-Pads Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 5 minutes ago, UniVehje said: Would something like Roger Charger (or Hou Ning) or any same looking charger from a AliExpress seller. Because they are all the same. (except different sticker or logo on the display) I really can't believe that there are so many people who believe that Roger or Hou build the Chargers themselves or modify them in any way. (except own sticker, logo and doubling the price) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rawnei Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 12 minutes ago, UniVehje said: Yeah, who would I know how to do this properly? I’m going to receive my Lynx soon and not really looking forward to opening my wheel for dangerous measurements with cheap multimeter and opening my charger to adjust voltage. All this should not be my responsibility as an owner of a brand new expensive wheel. Would something like Roger Charger (or Hou Ning) be more accurate in voltage with a display and adjustable voltage. I remember the debacle about S22 chargers needing adjustment. Lynx comes with the same charger. Measuring and adjusting is easy, I just did it, positive negative is on each side of the plug, it's also printed on the charge cover. Adjusting: On each side of charger there are 4 screws, unscrew 4 of them on the one side where the cable with plug goes out to the wheel, other side just unscrew the top 2 ones, now you can remove the top cover of the charger, inside there is a very visible potentiometer that is blue in color with a brass/copper colored adjustment knob, left less volt, right more volt, it needs to be plugged in and you need to have multimeter in the plug while adjusting, wear gloves, use a small screwdriver and be careful not to touch other components, use plastic tool if you have but the slot is very small. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rawnei Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 4 minutes ago, EUC Custom Power-Pads said: or any same looking charger from a AliExpress seller. Because they are all the same. (except different sticker or logo on the display) I really can't believe that there are so many people who believe that Roger or Hou build the Chargers themselves or modify them in any way. (except own sticker, logo and doubling the price) I understand the concept but I don't think you will find those particular PSU's on AliExpress and particularly not together with a bunch of different plugs prepared for different wheels, what they do is make it much easier for someone to just order and not think about it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UniVehje Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 5 minutes ago, EUC Custom Power-Pads said: I really can't believe that there are so many people who believe that Roger or Hou build the Chargers themselves or modify them in any way. (except own sticker, logo and doubling the price) Nobody believes that and nobody has claimed that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onkeldanuel Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 (edited) 26 minutes ago, UniVehje said: Nobody believes that and nobody has claimed that. Here is my Batterie stats at end of charge..think its ok right ? Or is it better maybe to adjust the charger down to 151,2V? Edited February 25 by onkeldanuel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techyiam Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 9 minutes ago, onkeldanuel said: Here is my Batterie stats at end of charge..think its ok right ? Or is it better maybe to adjust the charger down to 151,2V? If my battery packs have your packs cell voltages, I would be overjoyed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EUC Custom Power-Pads Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 (edited) On 2/25/2024 at 11:55 AM, Rawnei said: I understand the concept but I don't think you will find those particular PSU's on AliExpress and particularly not together with a bunch of different plugs prepared for different wheels, what they do is make it much easier for someone to just order and not think about it. I already ordered the same charger directly from a Chinese factory. Edited March 1 by EUC Custom Power-Pads Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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