Cancer of the world (Split from “e-mobility devices banned from city buses in Erie Pennsylvania”)

[Paul D]

On 6/26/2023 at 5:03 AM, mrelwood said:

Who has the right to make laws…? This is a completely different discussion, but a society simply can’t function without 

And yet here we are, still somewhat functional.

[Planemo]

2 hours ago, Paul D said:

And yet here we are, still somewhat functional.

Somewhat, yes. Even with rules. A modern society without rules is Mad Max on a mass scale. Humans are simply too self centered and cant be trusted unless on a small scale eg Amish/small tribes in Africa/Inuit nomads etc.

Humans are, in general, a selfish-based disease and a blight on this planet to every other living organism, even themselves.

Rules are needed for the majority to keep our sorry asses in check.

1st world citizens are way too narcissistic to live in a society without rules. Theres no turning back from that thanks to social media and capitalism so get used to it.

[mrelwood]

@Planemo, except… well… Actually nothing, never mind.

 In addition though, I’d say that… well… Nothing actually, never mind.

You really said it all!

[sbb]

6 hours ago, Planemo said:

Humans are, in general, a selfish-based disease and a blight on this planet to every other living organism, even themselves.

Sounds like you need a better friend circle.

[Punxatawneyjoe]

7 hours ago, Planemo said:

capitalism

something wrong with this now? It's bad to own a business?

[alcatraz]

I don't blame lawmakers for doing what they do. They have their incentives, and I have mine.

Often when I ride, there's a driver that's locked into the solid lines in the road, afraid to get a fine for touching them, not realising that they're putting others in danger for doing it. Like passing riders at way too close proximity.

I understand their incentives and I don't get angry. But if I were them I do things differently because I know the rules are meant to aid us, not govern us.

I run a red light in the blink of an eye if it's clear and I see danger behind me. Some people don't.

Yesterday I saw an ambulance in full strobe and siren mode having to wait behind a mercedes with a terrified driver behind the wheel afraid to pull one meter into a giant intersection because of a red light.

I often see people with really mixed up priorities with life changing consequences. I don't blame them but I try to learn from them.

Edited June 30, 2023 by alcatraz

[Planemo]

7 hours ago, sbb said:

Sounds like you need a better friend circle.

A personal attack, well done. And succinctly supports my point.

5 hours ago, Punxatawneyjoe said:

 It's bad to own a business?

The largest water supplier in the UK was privatised and paid its CEO's millions in dividends. Its now £14 billion in debt. So the government/taxpayers will have to pick up the pieces whilst great swathes of the UK's waters can't be entered due to raw sewage warnings. A further kick in the teeth is hearing narcissists up in arms due to not being able to get their daily dip whilst not giving a jot about the damage to marine/coastal life.

[Freeforester]

Not quite got the idea about “cleaning up” in the way most folk would like to see.

 

Reminded me of RBS former chief, Fred ‘the Shred’ Goodwin:

 

[Cerbera]

2 hours ago, Planemo said:

A personal attack, well done. And succinctly supports my point.

I really don't think that was a personal attack mate, just a wry off-hand comment. We all have decent friends I'd hope, but that doesn't stop the human race as a whole exhibiting the 'madness of crowds' (see Brexit and climate change denial etc etc).

It is difficult not to feel misanthropic in the UK at the moment, with seemingly every big corporation, supermarket and utility company out to rip the citizenry off to the maximum possible extent, facilitated and enabled by a greedy, power-clinging government that fully enables them and does almost nothing to protect the ordinary person on the street from a horrendous cost of living crisis, whilst kicking more and more personal freedoms to the kerb if it suits their wider purposes. 

I know this forum is not the place to discuss all that (and thank goodness there are online communities like this where we can temporarily escape it all), but it does perhaps explain why Brits are likely to feel 'attacked' from all sides at the moment. It's a very sorry state of affairs over here right now.

Edited June 30, 2023 by Cerbera

[Robse]

9 hours ago, Punxatawneyjoe said:

something wrong with this now? It's bad to own a business?

No - but there is one big problem: By virtue of my work in business development / management, I have seen it repeated so many times that I can well postulate that the biggest factor in human depravity is greed. It is predictable - every time things go well and better for a start-up company, and a lot of money rolls into the account, greed arises. Enough is no longer enough. And from that comes all kinds of depravity - and consequent problems with the environment, work ethic, behavior towards other people, views on humanity and a morbid need to present oneself as better than others at the expense of.... well, take your pick.

[Punxatawneyjoe]

2 hours ago, Robse said:

No - but there is one big problem: By virtue of my work in business development / management, I have seen it repeated so many times that I can well postulate that the biggest factor in human depravity is greed. It is predictable - every time things go well and better for a start-up company, and a lot of money rolls into the account, greed arises. Enough is no longer enough. And from that comes all kinds of depravity - and consequent problems with the environment, work ethic, behavior towards other people, views on humanity and a morbid need to present oneself as better than others at the expense of.... well, take your pick.

Well i would disagree, i feel like this happens to some but it's not the norm. Most successful people i know have the time and the money to do good things. This includes giving others an income , donating to charity's , cutting down their waste and carbon footprint. Most are very kind and considerate to others. With my job , i am around many many people with lots of money and multiple monster houses and i find mostly the opposite of what you are claiming. Usually it's the people on the dole waiting for the next handout are the ones stealing from others, committing crimes,doing depraved things and treating others with disrespect. The world runs on capitalism and the only reason where are where we are is because of it. I think it's irresponsible to use specific examples of corruption to sum up capitalism as a whole.

Edited June 30, 2023 by Punxatawneyjoe
afterthought

[Freeforester]

Irrespective of one’s personal beliefs surrounding climate change and carbon footprints, but some context given below;  I’m not sure you’ll stop planet Earth from being the (far) bigger ‘baddie’ in the carbon stakes, if you really do believe carbon dioxide is some sort of problem, but that’s a matter of education for all:

https://youtu.be/3BJKY1fiSdc

 

[0000]

On 6/29/2023 at 4:51 PM, Planemo said:

Humans are, in general, a selfish-based disease and a blight on this planet to every other living organism, even themselves

Whenever I see consensus for this sentiment, I think that Hollywood and the purveyors of the Western cultural zeitgeist at large have done a fantastic job programming people to hate themselves and other people. Tell me something, in general, what do we do with diseases? Not a trick question, we tend to eliminate them (unless you get grant money to play with biological weapons "gain of function research" overseas). So if you really believed that humans are a blight and a disease, why do you still draw breath? Or is it every other human that's not you that is the problem? I don't believe you strictly think like this, but this is how your statement logically breaks down.

At some point, I would think people would begin to ask themselves whose agenda does it benefit to get large swaths of the population to believe that they are so inherently evil that they would be better off not living at all, much less bringing others into the world. I can think of many increasingly more visible people and organizations working toward a depopulation "sustainable" agenda who also, hypocritically, don't follow the same self-deletion doctrine in their personal lives. An observant person might make something of these discontinuities and hypocrises exhibited by the powerful and find a way to lead themselves out of believing self-destructive narratives.

Human beings are the most dominant form of life on the planet, this is self-evident. And yet, many are led to begrudge their status and privilege as such as evident with your statement. As a hypothetical question - if lions, tigers, or wolves became the dominant life form on the planet, would they begrudge their status as such? No, they would simply act in their "selfish" eat-or-be-eaten nature as animals tend to do. It's man's ability to act outside of his selfish animal instincts that makes him the only living organism that is capable of choosing to act for good or evil because we are the only organism that is not a slave to our nature.

I think it is right to be upset that many of us seemingly are not acting as good stewards and caretakers of the natural environment, but it doesn't help anyone to condemn humanity as a whole as a disease or a blight that logically should be eliminated, especially yourself. Human beings are the only organisms we know of that are capable of being good, capable of virtue, and there would be no possibility of the concept of good and evil without there first being human beings to conceive it. Like I said, I think there's been a very consistent destructive anti-human message constantly reinforced in our culture especially through television, movies, and other audio-visual entertainment and the large agreement with your assertion is proof of this campaign's success. Who does that messaging serve?

The precursor to war is a collective devaluing of human life, and war, is the most profitable of "human" enterprises. It would be better to save the judgment for those who actually deserve being called classified as a blight by way of their individual actions rather than our collective existence.

Edited June 30, 2023 by Vanturion

[Planemo]

8 hours ago, Vanturion said:

Tell me something, in general, what do we do with diseases? Not a trick question, we tend to eliminate them

You make some very, very good points and I appreciate your balanced and respectful argument. I also appreciate the time you have spent writing it so I will add a few responses.

Re the above, I agree. Humans have solved some incredibly nasty diseases. But lets not forget that the vast majority are for our gain. This is not to be unexpected as, after all, humans want to survive just like every other species. I'm not sure that the drive to survive is an argument against the selfishness of humans though when the end result is also to the benefit of those creating said cures.

8 hours ago, Vanturion said:

So if you really believed that humans are a blight and a disease, why do you still draw breath? Or is it every other human that's not you that is the problem? I don't believe you strictly think like this, but this is how your statement logically breaks down.

Very well put. I'll start by saying I clearly don't think all of mankind is a blight. But I genuinely feel that the ratio of decent/non decent humans is skewed much too far to the non-decent side. As for me personally, I'm far from perfect but I live to an ethos of just being as decent as I can be, not only to other humans but also everything else that shares this small planet with us. As an example, covid sort of put the final nail in the coffin for me, the level of selfishness and self entitlement exhibited by such a high ratio of people just showed me the sheer numbers I am talking about. Then theres also the UK governments furlough scheme which was absolutely raped by fraudsters and those wishing to cash in on either not having to work or, continuing to work and still cashing in on it anyway. Rules were broken left, right and centre, those doing so only for the benefit of themselves, not others. Again, I'm not surprised it happened, what did surprise me was the sheer numbers of those doing it.

8 hours ago, Vanturion said:

An observant person might make something of these discontinuities and hypocrises exhibited by the powerful and find a way to lead themselves out of believing self-destructive narratives.

I'm not convinced that someone has an 'agenda' to get the population to self-loathe tbh but I take your viewpoint. To be frank I don't think that much of the population needs any help at all in 'not having the time' for their fellow humans.

8 hours ago, Vanturion said:

Human beings are the most dominant form of life on the planet, this is self-evident. And yet, many are led to begrudge their status and privilege as such as evident with your statement.

I think it's exactly that status and privilege which leads many to become selfish.

8 hours ago, Vanturion said:

As a hypothetical question - if lions, tigers, or wolves became the dominant life form on the planet, would they begrudge their status as such? No, they would simply act in their "selfish" eat-or-be-eaten nature as animals tend to do.

Of course, they wouldn't be 'aware' of their status, but they would also only stick to doing the things they do now. Crucially, theres only so many things that lions and tigers etc eat. The rest of the planet would go on just fine. The problem with humans is that our self-preservation is driven to such an extent that it comes at the detriment of other species. Put simply, put any other species at the top and the planet survives just fine. Put humans at the top and we manage to put pretty much most other species at risk, even the entire planet. You will of course get counter-arguments stating how much great work humans are doing to help other species (which I'm not knocking at all) but the vast majority of that 'help' is as a result of us fcuking it up for them in the first place.

I am not going to insult your intelligence by suggesting that you wouldn't know about the worldwide environmental damage caused by humans, my point is that much of the good that some are doing now to try and help mother nature shouldn't have happened in the first place, and that it only did so because huge numbers of people can't be trusted to think of anything other than themselves and their fat pockets.

8 hours ago, Vanturion said:

It's man's ability to act outside of his selfish animal instincts that makes him the only living organism that is capable of choosing to act for good or evil

Totally agree. I just wish that more people were more towards the 'good' side.

8 hours ago, Vanturion said:

I think it is right to be upset that many of us seemingly are not acting as good stewards and caretakers of the natural environment, but it doesn't help anyone to condemn humanity as a whole as a disease or a blight that logically should be eliminated

I certainly don't have any belief that humanity should be eliminated. Nor do I have any feelings of suicide. I just wish that a larger proportion of people could be decent. I've seen that relatively large numbers of people can do it, it just seems to go to $hit in most densely-populated areas, or what many would class as '1st world' countries where the drive to obtain money/trinkets outweighs their morals/decency. And people must be living under a rock if they don't see epic levels of narcissism all over Faceache/Twatter. 

To re-iterate, I am not saying everyone is like this. One of my good friends is a very, very high IT earner and he's the nicest guy you could ever meet. He wants to earn what he does simply because he likes expensive pastimes, it's just the way it is. I would be exactly the same tbh as he does a lot of really interesting, exciting stuff. But you can do that without being selfish and entitled (which he isn't in the slightest). Neither does he feel the need to post it all over the internet for 'likes'.

8 hours ago, Vanturion said:

Like I said, I think there's been a very consistent destructive anti-human message constantly reinforced in our culture especially through television, movies, and other audio-visual entertainment and the large agreement with your assertion is proof of this campaign's success. Who does that messaging serve?

You may be right, I can't say I have noticed that though. But you're correct if that is indeed whats happening, it serves no purpose.

I will finish by stating that I accept my viewpoint may be skewed by the fact that I have worked in enforcement for the last 20 years, 12 of those as a frontline bobby and 8 as a roadside examiner for drivers of HGV's. So yes I have seen the worst of society (as well as the best) but I have a great relationship with my drivers, even the 'naughty' ones as I treat everyone with respect and as such we often shake hands even when I hand them a £1500 penalty. The same applied when I was a bobby and the fact I never had to use my CS or baton in those 12 years is almost unheard of for most frontline officers. So I guess that ultimately what I saying is that an awful lot can be achieved if we are just nice to each other, live by a moral code and extend that to other species, not just humans. And I just wish we could lose the 'look, look at me!' mentality that has been propagated by social media.

As I say, I'm far from perfect, I eat supermarket meat for a start.....and I ride an illegal wheel....and...and... but....I do think often about what impact I make to this planet, minimise my footprint and above all, try to act in the best way possible towards my fellow humans. Of course I don't always get it right...but it's that ratio thing again..

...and then I leave work, finding myself yet again snarled up in the anger and selfishness of what is the commute home. Numerous cars beeping, cutting each other up, blowing red lights, no-one yielding to others...and again it's unfortunately the vast majority, not the few...I just chill and turn the radio up whilst getting reminded that I really need to find a ranch in the middle of nowhere.

[Funky]

And when others go off-topic it's okey.. When i go off-topic - i get warnings...

Fuck that - i will ignore all warnings in future.  This is open forum and we can talk about anything. Especially answering other people replies - should be ALLOWED! Even if you're going off-topic.

Mods can crate new topics and put what they don't like in separate topic.  

 

And yes humans are the cancer of the world.. (Simply take look around the world. Most problems are human fault.) And i wish the planet would blow up and off us all. 

Take a look all around, most young have no dreams, no motions, have already given up on life at age 20. (Why they have given up? Simply because the American dream is dead.. You wont own a house. You don't make enough money to raise a family. You are lucky, if you have paid off student loans.. You are lucky if you got roof over your head and food in your belly. Working 9-5 useless job, to simply keep on living this pointless life.) We are doomed... Nothing else needs to be said.

I myself have already given up - Wont continue where this is going, but most will get the idea. And no i won't seek help. Because it won't change my life.

And because i have given up - i could care less about others.. So yes, selfishness comes hand to hand perfectly. 

Edited July 1, 2023 by Funky

[Cerbera]

1 hour ago, Funky said:

This is open forum and we can talk about anything.

It's difficult not to go off-track sometimes, and downright impossible at others !

But I also don't envy the mods' job here in trying to make sure content stays roughly relevant to the initial thread.

And it's easy to see why someone wanting to discuss the issue at hand - EUCs being banned on public transport, doesn't also want to have to sift through 2 pages of misanthropic rage at the general state of the human race ! Personally I come here to get away from all that sort of stuff, though of course that does make me something of a hypocrite for adding to it myself further up this thread ! Ah, the tangled webs we weave...

[GothamMike]

On 6/29/2023 at 7:13 PM, sbb said:

Sounds like you need a better friend circle.

Someone be well edumacated.

[Cerbera]

39 minutes ago, GothamMike said:

Someone be well edumacated.

Give the guy a break, hey ? I'll bet his English is fair bit better than your Latvian !

[mrelwood]

23 hours ago, Vanturion said:

they would simply act in their "selfish" eat-or-be-eaten nature as animals tend to do. It's man's ability to act outside of his selfish animal instincts that makes him the only living organism that is capable of choosing to act for good or evil

I really like your guys’ civilized discussion about the (off-) topic. But this comment is one I definitely disagree with.

 Animals only kill for food and to protect themselves and their descendants and kin. Humans slave and cultivate animals to be eaten, worn, used as instruments for hobbies, etc. Humans are the only spieces that kill for anything other than to eat.

And animals are definitely capable of doing selfless good acts. There are many YT videos of dogs and other animals trying to save humans and other animals from harm. For example there are numerous where a dog tries to save a fish on dry ground. You can’t claim that it was taught to do that.

https://youtube.com/shorts/DqAl9e0SYQE?feature=share

https://youtube.com/shorts/B77AjSYTJ3s?feature=share

https://youtu.be/cfPlONgOPs0

Etc etc…

[The Brahan Seer]

13 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

Humans are the only spieces that kill for anything other than to eat.

Thats not true, ask a dolphin or seal as its being thrown in the air and played with (just like cats play with mice (another species)) just for fun by killer whales.

Chimpanzees also kill for fun too.  You need to watch more David Attenborough.

16 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

And animals are definitely capable of doing selfless good acts.

Humans are always saving animals, and often die in the pursuit of rescuing pets often not their own.

[Robse]

summa summarum: more intelligence eqauls more lust and need to kill and torture for fun and pleasure.

[The Brahan Seer]

1 minute ago, Robse said:

more intelligence eqauls more lust and need to kill and torture for fun and pleasure.

Does it though? Male lions will kill all male offspring his own included.  Don't get me onto Meerkats...

https://www.discoverwildlife.com/animal-facts/mammals/meet-the-worlds-most-murderous-mammal-the-meerkat/

[Robse]

1 minute ago, The Brahan Seer said:

Does it though? Male lions will kill all male offspring his own included.  Don't get me onto Meerkats...

https://www.discoverwildlife.com/animal-facts/mammals/meet-the-worlds-most-murderous-mammal-the-meerkat/

and my stupid cat will take a living mouse with her inside our house just to play with it until it dies..  already 8 times this week 🙄, perhaps a distinct between intelligence and instinct?

[level9]

13 hours ago, Planemo said:

I certainly don't have any belief that humanity should be eliminated. Nor do I have any feelings of suicide. I just wish that a larger proportion of people could be decent. I've seen that relatively large numbers of people can do it, it just seems to go to $hit in most densely-populated areas, or what many would class as '1st world' countries where the drive to obtain money/trinkets outweighs their morals/decency. And people must be living under a rock if they don't see epic levels of narcissism all over Faceache/Twatter. 

 

Most people are and do act decent. The relatively small portion of narcissists, by the very nature of their disorder, suck up everyone's attention. It makes it look like there are more than there really are. Regular, decent folk don't win any life participation awards for simply being non-toxic and don't make the nightly drama-filled news. They're comparatively quiet. That's why you'd don't see them...

[Cerbera]

16 minutes ago, Robse said:

my stupid cat will take a living mouse with her inside our house just to play with it until it dies.. 

That's your house that's killing them, or rather the fact that it means they can't get away. The reason cats play with prey is actually part of nature's balancing act ensuring that at least 50% of animals who are initially caught have further chances of escape, and when not in an enclosed environment a lot of the time they do, and kitty is left empty-pawed. 

My little cat is old and pathetic now, and all the wildlife knows she can't be bothered anymore, but when she used to bring them in (in her youth) she used to bang them about a bit, and then lose interest, leaving them to run and hide about the house, where they had just about enough time and energy left to find somewhere I couldn't get to them before expiring of shock, and filling my house with the smell of death until I could finally locate them ! I 'm rather glad those days are over...

As for orcas, they do it mainly to train their young, and chimps are just nasty-ass bastards ! We gotta watch those guys - they have already entered their 'stone age', and use their newfound 'tools' to bludgeon each other with, in a disturbingly human sort of way...

Conversely, once we start talking about humans, the ones of higher intelligence there are normally the ones that most abhor violence.

Edited July 1, 2023 by Cerbera