Cancer of the world (Split from “e-mobility devices banned from city buses in Erie Pennsylvania”)

[Freeforester]

16 hours ago, Vanturion said:

Speaking of pretending

 

17 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

"Cancer of the World" sure is a good description….

 

No point in pretending it didn’t happen, now the cat is coming out of the bag:

https://youtu.be/1l6Q2r5VWLo

Gotta feel a bit sorry for those who took this in good faith, only for their health to suffer as it seems it has, and continues to do so. A class action is being raised presently in Germany by a number of those who suffered. Still, it’ll be the rest of society who will pay, as it’s highly unlikely that those (indemnified) perpetrators of these injuries (big pharma) will be forced to give redress, even though it was quite clear to those working in the particular field of mRNA vaccine research that this was highly likely to be the result, given the inadequate test results.     The ongoing excess mortality figures running beyond their five year averages alone bear testament to that, much less the travails of those still living with the consequences.

[0000]

19 hours ago, sbb said:

There's obviously a mass die-off that happens with the 6k half cycle, and the 12k ones are reportedly magnitudes worse. Neither appear to be an extinction event for most species. A lot of everything dies, but enough things survive for most species to continue. Clearly, since the rocks show this disaster every 6k years, but we're still here after 150k+.

I once attended a talk whose focus was on paleolithic architecture where they showed numerous examples/excavations of ancient massive monoblock stones that had been shaped using techniques that supposedly couldn’t be replicated today. I didn’t have the expertise to evaluate one way or another, but it was pretty compelling and interesting material. The cyclical near-extension events, I think, goes a long way in explaining why recorded human history doesn’t really go back all that far, geologically speaking.

19 hours ago, sbb said:

Still, it's coming at some point. And the move to an all-electric, immobile, no-farming bug-and-lab-meat society by our moral, philosophical, and intellectual betters might exacerbate the death toll.  Heck, even an average solar flare would immobilize and freeze / starve most of the planet if they get their way.

Arrogance, hubris, power inherited rather than built, authority wielded with no accountability, an inherent or even deep-seated ethnic hatred toward the cultures and peoples that tend to place great value on self-sufficiency, there’s a lot of factors I can think of rolling up into how and why the anthropogenic climate change narrative is promoted by those in the West with the lion's share of political power. I don’t know if it’s stupidity, a profound lack of imagination, cowardice, paycheck dependency, peer pressure, and/or a combination of some other factor that prevents the majority of people from understanding that the people in charge really do not have their best interests at heart.

"Our betters" have already broadcasted for all of the world to hear, that is many of the most rich and powerful among us deeply associated with the now infamous WEF organization, that they aim and aspire for the majority of humanity to have no property rights, not own land or farm it, nor eat meat. I imagine our ideologically pre-conquered, pre-indoctrinated ancestors would have declared these people enemies of humanity and driven them out of their respective countries in their more rational age. Clearly times have changed.

I personally don’t count my chances amongst the survivors if this 12k cyclical natural disaster pops off in my lifetime, and I do accept the possibility of it happening. It’d be a hell of thing to go from the conveniences we live with today to then try and survive to rebuild if you can even make it through the initial chaos. That said, I totally agree, the coils will melt, and the over-reliance on complexity (globalization + technology) to keep humanity fed is a profound weakness in terms overall human survivability in this type of cataclysmic disaster.

19 hours ago, sbb said:

ANY solar effect that changes which doesn't directly follow UV brightness is, therefore, not in the "natural budget" and gets blamed on us.

Which, on it’s own, is all the evidence an individual should need to know to conclude that the climate simulation the entire “green new deal” relies upon is completely without credibility.

Imagine if the majority of people were capable of dismissing all future claims and statements of public figures and organizations if it was established or shown they had committed to a lie without apology or retraction. I don’t think any of today’s public figures or organization of notable political power would be left standing. Instead we permit endless amounts of deflection, moving goal posts, changing definitions, changing positions, and on and on. The Prussian Education System: ensuring the obedience and compliance of the masses since the late 1800s.
 

19 hours ago, sbb said:

Mechanically speaking, we know the mechanism should be electrical, and some people are theorizing that it affects the coupling between the planet's crust and mantle; it's the same magnetic effect that makes our EUC motors work, but in this case it appears to also affect a viscous coupling in the same way an automatic transmission can shift gears.
...
Both are a fuck ton of (thermodynamic) work, and we get the credit. We are told that the effect will selfishly murder everyone unless we agree to eat bugs, somehow.

I think it’s pretty hard for many people to wrap their head around, much less accept the concept that “they hate us (peasants) and they want us dead.” Perhaps made easier to understand through the lens of associating trends in power working through distinct ethnic groups, but that’s probably one of the most verboten topics a curious mind can explore, much less remark upon. But back to the science, very interesting stuff – again I appreciate taking the time to type all that up.

19 hours ago, sbb said:

Indeed. But the lack of ozone seems to be due to a lack of magnetic field; the solar dust does not get pushed to the poles in a "magnetic bottle" like it does, here. Instead, the charged dust makes it right to the atmosphere and shreds any ozone, which then then no longer acts as a UV filter.  At least, that is what we observe in our own poles.

That’s the thing though, Mars has an iron core, the planet still spins, and it features topography that suggests multiple periods of large scale flooding (from deposit layers) as well as a history of tectonic/seismic activity (at least it looks like just pulling up some screenshots), so that begs the question - what happened to the magnetic field that likely used to protect a similarly robust protective ozone layer? If, presumably, the magnetic field can go away, does that eventually happen to Earth, and how?

The same wikipedia entry (yeah sorry in advance) states “Presently Mars shows little geological activity” which is a lot more interesting to me in the context of everything you described regarding the interaction between solar wind and earth as well as that coupling effect to the planet’s crust and mantle you mentioned. Maybe a crude analogy, but in a way it's kind of like the (tectonic) engine of Mars run out of juice at some point and subsequently lost the ability to support life. Or maybe it would be more appropriate to refer to magnetic bottle effect as the shield protecting life rather than the tectonic engine, although with the engine analogy it implies some kind of service life and termination date which makes a certain kind of sense in this context.

Always interested to read more if you have any other thoughts on the matter.

Edited July 14, 2023 by Vanturion

[0000]

11 hours ago, Freeforester said:

No point in pretending it didn’t happen, now the cat is coming out of the bag:

https://youtu.be/1l6Q2r5VWLo

One of both the slowest and simultaneously well-documented red pilling events in recent memory is the Dr. John Campbell COVID figurehead slowly "finding out" that the 'zines weren't always safe, nor effective.

It was a glacial, and IMO a rather inorganic process, one in which I remember to be somewhat offensive as he strictly played by YT's misinformation rules which ultimately meant he was assisting in spreading the government's mRNA misinformation. This ultimately served to harm even more people who, presumably, were otherwise looking to the net for alternative advice. Definitely still in the group that profited from COVID, and I believe cynically so as it didn't take much critical thought to realize they were lying when they:

• changed the official definition of pandemic removing "with enormous numbers of deaths and illness" over a decade prior (Monkeypox, a pandemic right?)
• changed the official definition of vaccine removing the "providing immunity" clause and replacing it with "provide protection" (the same thing that regular exercise, good sleep, and healthy nutrition does for your immune system)
• exempted all vaccine makers from legal liability while simultaneously campaigning for injection mandates across large swaths of public and private sector jobs
• allowed Pfizer to inject their own placebo group polluting their one study they were relying upon to gauge safety destroying any chance of assessing the long term safety profile
• counted fatalities under 14 days of taking the 'zine among the non-vaccinated statistics where proximity to the time of your injection was highly correlated to deaths, especially in the first couple days representing the lions share of near-term fatalities from these injections
• Pfizer lawyers advocating to not release their safety data for 50 then 75 years to the public in which it was eventually disclosed in these documents that they did not devise a method of tracking injection injuries and deaths because they were relying upon VAERS (oh the irony)
• Every single death in VAERS, the only fucking official US database tracking the attributed to the 'zines continues, to this day, to be ignored by all authoritative bodies
  • this in stark contrast to the Swine Flu vaccines, just roughly a decade prior, which were shuttered after less than 20 deaths were attributed (I think it was around 10)
• The common flu was completely eliminated for 2 years in WHO health statistics
• Hospitals got paid federal money to follow a standard of care that included intubation which had a mortality rate of over 50% sometimes nearly 70% depending on the study killing a majority of those who were unlucky enough to experience said standard
• The standard of care included Remdesivir, a thrice failed and repurposed drug that failed to treat Hep-C, RSV, and Ebola but was granted EUA on the weakest evidence providing another legally hard-won income stream for the patent holders and hospitals taking deficit tax money hand over fist, meanwhile...
• Ivermectin, an extremely cheap, generic, over-the-counter drug with one of the safest and well known risk profiles, was demonized by the FDA as horse medicine when it cost nothing in terms of financial burden or health risk to virtually any individual to try as prophylactic. Today there are over 98 independent studies today, the vast majority of which demonstrating measurable benefit in treating COVID when administered appropriately.
• The complete disassociation of age, weight, and other health risk factors in the authoritative messaging mandating experimental injections - one size fits all

I'm forgetting more than I'm remembering here... the point is, instead of making bones about the litany of corrupt and immoral goings on that anyone could easily find for themselves despite all of the ongoing censorship, especially someone like Dr. Campbell himself who made it his job to become authoritative source, that he'd rather stick to the book and make a buck for that long says something. Yeah, I don't really count him as one of the good ones. Congrats to his COVID grift I guess though.

11 hours ago, Freeforester said:

The ongoing excess mortality figures running beyond their five year averages alone bear testament to that, much less the travails of those still living with the consequences.

And people still want to put their head in the sand and pretend we're the problem for raising any of these points. The fact that anyone thinks any of these governments, more specifically the individuals who perpetuated these crimes, have any legitimacy, any credibility whatsoever after what they've done, it's enough to make you lose faith in humanity.

11 hours ago, Freeforester said:

Still, it’ll be the rest of society who will pay

100% agree. It's absurd whenever I see someone sue the government. It's just a tax on ourselves, it doesn't come from the official who perpetuated the wrong-doing. It's a completely immoral system that protects criminals punishing us in the initial theft and again in the aftermath. Absurd clown world.

Edited July 14, 2023 by Vanturion

[Freeforester]

On origins of the all-encompassing ‘control’ playbook:

https://youtu.be/QUHe03ZJusQ

 

[atdlzpae]

One of many egregious things is that people damaged by Covid "vaccines" are left to their own devices.
You can't sue Pfizer/Moderna, they are immune. You can't sue your employer either for forcing you to take it.
You can only politely ask the government for help.

In the US Countermeasures Injury Compensation Program paid out four compensations for a total of $9k.
$4k probably won't even cover one hospital stay related to myocarditis.

People who took the jab believed they are doing something good.
A lot of them regret it with no help in sight, only the permanent damage for the rest of their lives.
This system is corrupt to the core.

Edited July 14, 2023 by atdlzpae

[0000]

2 hours ago, atdlzpae said:

One of many egregious things is that people damaged by Covid "vaccines" are left to their own devices.
You can't sue Pfizer/Moderna, they are immune. You can't sue your employer either for forcing you to take it.
You can only politely ask the government for help.

For sure, it's mind blowing the risks people assumed (especially pushing it onto their own kids) with taking these experimental products, often and ultimately because of both professional and peer pressure if they weren't true believers, all without virtually any promise of recourse if it went poorly for them. It was public knowledge here in the US that the vaccine companies were made immune to liability. I mean, what other novel product, never before tested on humans, lacking all long-term safety data, with no toxicology information available, would you inject directly into your body bypassing natural defenses where the companies were granted immunity from any and all harm caused, whatsoever, for their products. This in addition to the publicly-known, very low and increasingly negligible risk of fatality, the younger and healthier their demographic. Just incredible.

In my view, a predatory grift of this level, the depth of the lies sustained and still continuing to perpetuate this crime was a fatal blow to civilizational cohesion. I really believe the powers that be executed civilization with this one, and now it's simply a matter of living through the slow collective realization of what happened as more people lose faith and trust in our system. Trust being the lifeblood of a civilization, it now spurts out of the fatal wound like a severed artery.

2 hours ago, atdlzpae said:

In the US Countermeasures Injury Compensation Program paid out four compensations for a total of $9k.
$4k probably won't even cover one hospital stay related to myocarditis.

Meanwhile, just for comparison as it popped up in the feed - in my area of the woods, in 2017 a retired man cycles himself into an, admittedly, somewhat poorly-marked bollard in the middle of a paved bike trail, ends up paralyzing himself in the fall, and my state's supreme court rules that the tax-payers owe him $10 million for this abdication of personal responsibility. What idiotic legal idiosyncrasies.

2 hours ago, atdlzpae said:

People who took the jab believed they are doing something good.
A lot of them regret it with no help in sight, only the permanent damage for the rest of their lives.

Admittedly, for me it's hard to have sympathy. Especially as I took a lot of time to research and create material to warn people in my personal life as well as online, but it mostly fell on deaf ears, and the censoring and banning of any dissenting argumentation and evidence that challenged the official narrative was incessant. As I said in an earlier rant, we really are bred to be obedient and compliant people, something approaching slave-like in deference to perceived authorities, the ultimate product of our Prussian-modeled education indoctrination systems. So I get it, I used to be that way too before developing a skeptical mind.

Although not as active today, people still self-report injection injuries on r/CovidVaccinated - just tragic.

2 hours ago, atdlzpae said:

This system is corrupt to the core.

Truer words..

Edited July 15, 2023 by Vanturion

[atdlzpae]

1 hour ago, Vanturion said:

somewhat poorly-marked bollard in the middle of a paved bike trail

I hate those things. Each time I pass one of them I think to myself: If my wheel cuts out, I'll lose all my teeth.

1 hour ago, Vanturion said:

Admittedly, for me it's hard to have sympathy.

Sadly as a species we evolved to live in groups, so individualism isn't deeply ingrained into us. What worked well when we lived in communities smaller than Dunbar number, completely fails us today.

You're right, education is also a huge part of it. But the tendency to follow authority is definitely mostly genetic too.

1 hour ago, Vanturion said:

Although not as active today, people still self-report injection injuries on r/CovidVaccinated - just tragic.

Yeah. 2 years ago when I was researching if I should take the jab I spent hours upon hours reading it.
It was interesting to see it change from Yay, I got vaccinated! to I have rash all over my body.

Edited July 15, 2023 by atdlzpae

[0000]

2 hours ago, atdlzpae said:

What worked well when we lived in communities smaller than Dunbar number, completely fails us today.

Agreed. Bigger communities/cities can work too I think, at least in terms of sustainability on a very long timescale, but evidently not under a monetary system (unsound money) that tends to eventuate in erasing integral aspects of personal sovereignty and eliminating political representation of actual consequence, as evidence the US since 1913. All the power, political certainly, and now going so far to attempt to infringe on our personal medical decisions as we've seen with the COVID response, increasingly ends up centralized over time. There have been some pretty stark warnings about the consequences of central banking in American history, but here we are.

2 hours ago, atdlzpae said:

You're right, education is also a huge part of it. But the tendency to follow authority is definitely mostly genetic too.

Hmm, you're probably right on the genetic component. It makes sense that dissenters who go against power tend not to survive, much less thrive, over those who cooperate with authority, or who strategically position themselves to become an authority - play that theme out over the rise and fall of human civilizations and the traits to cooperate with power get reinforced through the selective breeding process.

Then again, I want to say most people, perhaps above a cognitive threshold, are capable of reasoning and making the choice to follow truth or power when they are in conflict. Free will and all.

Back to your point though, I'm now remembering there's something called the warrior gene expressed dis-proportionally in different racial groups that predisposes some to aggression and violence.

Quote

The MAOA gene can come in the form of 2, 3, 3.5, 4, or 5 allele. A 3-repeat allele is considered dysfunctional and is what is referred to as the "warrior gene". A 2-repeat (2R) allele is considered very dysfunctional. The 2-repeat allele does not produce a protein needed to break down old serotonin. It is strongly correlated to criminality and doubles the rate of violence of the 3R without needing an environmental interaction mechanism. People with a 2-repeat allele MAOA gene have a permanent chemical imbalance in their brain making the person more likely to be agitated, aggressive, and impulsive.

I won't link the actual statistics because that might be too hot a topic for this forum, but it's pretty easy to infer how the gene tends to be expressed given the demographics of the prison population in the US.

Something I find interesting in the article above is it references an Algerian living in Italy being granted a sentence reduction for murder as the judge ruled his genes made the murderer less responsible for his actions. Universal application of the law is a core principle of many European peoples' cultures, but it seems to be increasingly sacrificed on the altar of the current ideological bent of our ruling "elites". Just one of those inconvenient truths I suppose that comes with the consequences of forcing encouraging multiculturalism/integration at any cost.

I digress, but the genetic point you brought up made me think about this little discussed scientific factoid that is criminally absent from the public debate on crime, punishment, and race relations.

People evolved differently with different environmental pressures for thousands of years leading to genetic drift such as the varying expression of the warrior gene in a given racial group, and now living in the resource abundant world with high levels of mobility, bringing differently evolved people together sometimes results in some very negative consequences. I'm sure we'll achieve equity at some point though, perhaps in mass expedition to the afterlife.

2 hours ago, atdlzpae said:

Yay, I got vaccinated! to I have rash all over my body.

It seems some people are still boosting too, incredible times.

Edited July 15, 2023 by Vanturion

[mrelwood]

 

3 hours ago, Vanturion said:

Admittedly, for me it's hard to have sympathy. Especially as I took a lot of time to research and create material to warn people in my personal life as well as online, but it mostly fell on deaf ears

As was to be expected. People used to care for and understand what facts are, but in the past two decades “a fact” has been degraded to “an opinion”. I’ve had a couple really strange discussions related to that, where someone said that he knows and understands that they are facts, but that he still believes otherwise. Like… what?? All ready to become a flat earther I guess. (I know, an old jab, but it just fits. And deserves zero sympathy.)

No matter how well researched your warnings were, there exists no reliable method of conveying that to the readers. So they would have to do their own fact checking and researching anyway. And with the current work environment of two-burnouts-before-retirement-at-75-or-you’ve-failed, people don’t have the time or the energy required to look into things. News, information, choosing what to buy, etc. all need to be provided as readily chewed and served packages that require only the absolutely minimum effort. And people gladly pay for such service if it gives them the illusion of saving a second of their precious time or the slightest amount of effort of having to look into things.

Your well researched warnings were essentially right next to flat earthers’ recruitment pages, and unfortunately to an unknowledgeable person they were equals.

I was raised as a (non-fundamental) Christian. When I was a child, I thought that everybody were. It was a shock to learn in my teens that that wasn’t the case. And I never even considered whether I actually believe in that stuff until I was 20. Quit the church very soon after. Point being, even the smartest and wittiest of people are slaves to being human, and unable to assess a bigger picture than what they’ve seen thus far. Vaccines that the public health care system forces you not being actually good for you is one of those things. It’s simply unfathomable, and every criticism towards it is considered a conspiracy theory. Until their belief system crumbles from first hand experiences.

I had held off taking the first jab, but when one of my favorite bands were coming to play their first concert in Finland, the organizer required a covid passport (a recent jab or covid). I tried to read into it, but it was impossible for me to compare the conflicting information I found, since I didn’t have the means to assess which ones were true. Or even more true. Since I wanted to go to the concert so bad, i took the jab a week before the concert. I felt dead for the next two days, and got a two week vaccine flu bad enough to prevent me from attending the concert. And very mild symptoms that lasted for 14 months.

I guess I decided to believe in the wrong “facts”.

[Eucner]

1 hour ago, mrelwood said:

I guess I decided to believe in the wrong “facts”.

You can't know what the alternative fate for you would have been. It could have been better or worse. Despite all ill side effects, it still could have been the right decision.

[UniVehje]

10 minutes ago, Eucner said:

You can't know what the alternative fate for you would have been. It could have been better or worse. Despite all ill side effects, it still could have been the right decision.

Exactly this. I didn’t find the source for now, but I recall reading about strong side effects might correlate with reacting very badly to actual covid. Statistically still a safer bet.

What I find strange in these discussions is the ability to believe highly trained experts around the world are all (or at least majority)either wrong or joined a conspiracy and have ulterior motives. If laymen doing their own research can do better job or are more reliable in this highly specialised area requiring complex statistical models under strict guidelines, we would have a big problem in the world. 

[Freeforester]

“What I find strange in these discussions is the ability to believe highly trained experts around the world are all (or at least majority)either wrong or joined a conspiracy and have ulterior motives. If laymen doing their own research can do better job or are more reliable in this highly specialised area requiring complex statistical models under strict guidelines, we would have a big problem in the world.”

 

Speaking as I am, a now retired deer stalker and basically educated of only up to secondary level education: One needed not to be an expert oneself to fathom out what might or might not be the best course of action, when it was possible to read and reason out both  beyond and behind the clarion call, but it did and still does require a bit of time and effort, and a sense of which ‘expert’ to trust.     As for that expert opinion: for me, when ex-head of Pfizer’s very own mRNA vaccine R&D division took the European Medical Agency to court in a bid to prevent the pan European jabs rollout, citing various details and the until then apparently insurmountable problems associated with the autoimmunity aspects encountered with the development of a similar mRNA ‘vaccine’ for the original SARS viral outbreak, that caught one’s attention; the way the court passed the decision ‘Pontius Pilate’- like to the political grifters in the scenario merely served to confirm my suspicion about the safety-worthiness of the jab, but just to be sure, I looked into the earlier problems and concerns cited by professor Yeadon, and found them to be real.      Further research and learning from expert sources of hitherto impeccable record, all apparently now intent on somehow ‘trashing’ their lifelong career reputations on these alleged ‘tin-foil hatted conspiracy theories’ only served to further strengthen my suspicion that not all was as it was being portrayed.        The cap was set by the Japanese government FOI request of the trial data, showing the distribution of the spike protein throughout the body of those volunteers who were inoculated, and the fact that the (outsourced) trials were abruptly halted thereafter, with no recorded follow up of these guinea pigs’ outcomes.  Professors Malone (developer/inventor of mRNA vaccine technology) and Bhadki (hitherto preeminent immunologist of repute in Germany) were proven (in my mind) to be right to be dismayed.    Subsequent  events closer to home in my small community and familial sphere made me realise the validity of these concerns, though I appreciate that statistically these are indeed insignificant, to both the next of kin and those completely unaffected. The statistics aren’t uppermost in my mind, however, but rather the impact on real lives of real people.

 The jury may still be out on Vanden Bossche’s concerns that we may in fact not yet be out of the woods, but given the number of calls he has made correctly during the course of the pandemic,  not least surrounding the deleterious/disastrous effect of trying to ‘vaccinate’ one’s way out of it and in so doing, forcing the virus into evolution toward immune-escaping variants, I’m personally minded to continue to apply the ‘precautionary principle’ until such time as it can be demonstrated that  the virulence of the virus has been subdued, once and for all.     My views on Ivermectin are well enough known on another older thread so I’ll spare you the repetition of these, safe to say it is clear that far fewer deaths have occurred where it was used as either a prophylactic or as part of a treatment regime, despite the mainstream media clamour to the contrary; something that can still lay claim to be both ‘safe and effective’, it’s only failing being that it is dirt cheap, and out of patent, so cannot be readily monetised.

 

 

Edited July 15, 2023 by Freeforester

[woke rider]

Just now, Freeforester said:

The jury may still be out on Vanden Bossche’s concerns that we may in fact not yet be out of the woods, but given the number of calls he has made correctly during the course of the pandemic,  not least surrounding the deleterious/disastrous effect of trying to ‘vaccinate’ one’s way out of it and in so doing, forcing the virus into evolution toward immune-escaping variants, I’m personally minded to continue to apply the ‘precautionary principle’ until such time as it can be demonstrated that  the virulence of the virus has been once and for all.

I appreciate your rational. It seems like the covid-19 virus was engineered because it targeted certain segments of the population, especially the elderly who have become over populated. Being alive in a time of genetic engineering of virus is tricky. Being wary of strangers, not traveling, living in small communities, bolstering your immune system, making sure your vitamin D levels are in the healthy range, taking antiviral medication, making sure your gut is healthy, and taking immunizations, N-95 mask wearing are all important to stay alive and healthy in this era.

[atdlzpae]

7 hours ago, UniVehje said:

Exactly this. I didn’t find the source for now, but I recall reading about strong side effects might correlate with reacting very badly to actual covid. Statistically still a safer bet.

I'm very skeptical of this claim because the mechanism of how mRNA works is drastically, drastically different from how a virus works.
Which is different from the classical "attenuated virus" vaccines.

Source? Preferably a study or something statistical?

7 hours ago, UniVehje said:

What I find strange in these discussions is the ability to believe highly trained experts around the world are all (or at least majority)either wrong or joined a conspiracy and have ulterior motives.

There are a lot of high quality scientists that disagree. The issue is that we're now mostly living in echo-chambers, so we rarely look at the other side's arguments. Algorithms make sure to feed us only what we are likely to click on.

You're a moderator so you can see my post history from the now removed thread from 2021/2022. If you look there you can see that I cite sources left and right. From scientists who disagree.

We live in times of censorship and cancelling. So neither you nor me know how many healthcare workers & scientists really support Covid "vaccines". A lot of them are afraid to speak up. Afraid of losing their job. Afraid of never being published again. Afraid of losing their career.

We'd need an anonymous survey to discern how many scientists & doctors really like how science & healthcare are currently being done.

8 hours ago, UniVehje said:

If laymen doing their own research can do better job or are more reliable in this highly specialised area requiring complex statistical models under strict guidelines, we would have a big problem in the world.

Unfortunately, there is fraud in the whole medical science. So much fraud that you could drive a truck through it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_pharmaceutical_settlements

Pfizer has a distinction of paying the second biggest settlement of $2.3 billion. J&J $2.2 billion. These numbers come from all sorts of unethical practices.
Will the lawsuits happen for Covid "vaccines"? Almost certainly not. Those "vaccines" are covered under EUA and thus they are immune from liability.
What's the chance that companies with criminal history suddenly stopped being evil when they got immunity from liability?

I'll bring one example right now:
During Pfizer trial Maddie de Garay was hospitalized within 24h after her second shot. She now is permanently injured, her life will never be normal. And in the trial results she was classified as "functional abdominal pain".

If that's not fraud then I don't know what is.

[sbb]

11 hours ago, UniVehje said:

What I find strange in these discussions is the ability to believe highly trained experts around the world are all (or at least majority)either wrong or joined a conspiracy and have ulterior motives. If laymen doing their own research can do better job or are more reliable in this highly specialised area requiring complex statistical models under strict guidelines, we would have a big problem in the world. 

In many cases, yes. The part that gets buried is that most experts are only experts in their own particular silo, so they defer to (and parrot) others they consider to be experts.

The challenge with that strategy is the definition of "expert" -  any idiot who knows one single buzzword that you don't.

The masking fiasco is case and point. Most of the medical experts who insisted, to people at risk, that a cloth mask in any way mitigates or reduces that risk, belong in prison for battery, and probably manslaughter if the person died from following their masking advice.

Still, masking works - the experts at the CDC said so, and every government said so. And they are all experts, who listen to experts. And they have complex statistical models, strict guidelines, and other buzzwords that everyone will assume to mean whatever validates the argument.

Guess who said Covid masks don't do shit?

Industrial hygienists.

The IH crowd knows about it because this topic is literally their gig.  And they were correct.

 

The covid masks that the Experts have told us to be 70+ percent efficacy are no better than putting a tube sock over your face.  The "wear two masks = 97% efficacy" claim that the experts made is also no better than wearing a tube sock over your face, folded. Or a T-shirt.

The mask hoax was initially good guidance when the viral transmission was thought to be spread by spit.  Actual experts put out guidance to mitigate having someone else's sneeze land in your eyes, nose, or mouth; stay out of the spray (6+ feet) OR wear a spit-shield and sunglasses.

That advice was good for about 9 days, if I recall, after which the transmission was proven to be aerosol. And then that advice became completely irrelevant.

Instead, the "experts" doubled down. Some, to the point of saying "mask AND six feet", which was never actual advice.  Official guidance was "or".  NYSDMV website said, on every page, "AND".  One-way aisles in supermarkets and stores are yet more examples of laughable "expert" advice on how to mitigate an aerosol pathogen.

The thing is, the covid masks are great and correct for stopping spit, snot, piss, puke, puss, liquid shit, and arterial blood spray from entering your nose and mouth. When working a patient where such a thing may happen, a paper or cloth mask, or even a used pair of underwear over your face, will work. It'll buy you the time you need to get away and get a new blocker.

Those masks do fuck-all to protect you from things that stink, however.  And therein lies the hoax, and the criminality of the "experts".  Protection from things that stink is covered under OSHA CFR 1910 "respiratory protection".  Everyone reading this probably saw an expert on TV state that "we are in uncharted territory" with regard to viral exposure controls.  The people who said that were full of bullshit.  CFR 1910 is written in the blood of people who got wrecked, and the instant that virus was known to be an aerosol with no means of measuring concentration or dosage, IDLH protocols for EVERY commercial setting became the only viable (and legally acceptable) exposure control.

Still, the 70 and 97% claim of masking and double masking as a spit-shield is legit, from a legit study.

The study was simple and was done in regard to sneezes in the center-aisle seating on airplanes; Get the initial weight of a beaker with a mask on it.  Give the mask a squirt of water from a spray bottle a short gap away.  Weigh the beaker and mask, then only weigh the beaker to determine how much water was captured by the mask.  Efficacy!

It turns out, putting a mask on the spray bottle AND the beaker stops even MORE water from getting into the beaker!  So does putting two masks on the beaker!

Guess what else that study showed, that didn't make it into the expert briefings?   Putting a sheet of lexan ANYWHERE between the beaker and the spray bottle produced 100% efficacy.  Those transparent spit-shields were the most appropriate control, yet they were buried by the "experts" because they break the "protects you from aerosol" gaslight.

"Experts".

It's sad to realize that all the Syrians who were killed by sarin gas could have saved themselves by putting their underwear on their face.  It's said to realize that all the soldiers who died from mustard gas in WW1 could have been saved if they'd simply worn a cheetah-print Etsy mask. Or maybe two.

"Experts".  Aerosols.

Silos.

I watched the influenza case rate fall to 0 in NYS  in October of 2019, and the case count became (and stayed) 0 for the entire country in November of that year, and stayed 0 for the entire country for the duration of the pandemic. At first, I thought the guys in my county DOH had been re-tasked to work on other things, but when the 2019 summary came out in 2020, every other disease stat for every month was populated; the only 0s were for Flu in Nov and Dec. Same is true for the state, and country, and WHO data.

The flu cases were replaced by covid cases everywhere covid testing was rolled out, because the covid test yielded a positive result if you had influenza.

The actual flu rate did not go down; it was the same as it always was, and is seasonal. The covid rates were a combination of, mostly seasonal influenza, along with some legit covid, and a reported 1-in-5 false positive rate that may be higher or lower.  Anyone with flu was misdiagnosed and mistreated for covid.  THAT is malpractice by "experts". Anyone who was killed by influenza complications, because they were treated with Covid protocols, is an instance of criminal manslaughter.

The flu season waned in the spring as it always does, which coincided with the mass Jab ramp-up.  MSNBC "experts" cited the seasonal decline of influenza IN the covid case counts as proof that the Jab stops transmission, so everyone must get it.  All the experts agreed. Anyone who refuses the Jab should be rounded up and treated as a mass murderer. Especially if they refuse to wear a mask.  Videos of Aussies getting the shit kicked out of them by police, for daring to sit on their front porch, began to surface.

Silos.

Back when the virus was new, and about two weeks after Cuomo (NYS governor) had forced the infected elderly to be placed back into retirement homes after pulling his own family members out, there was serious fear that every old person was going to be slaughtered by this virus. There was a hospital ship available that could have taken every infected person and cared for them, but Cuomo refused to use it, and it sat idle.

Trump responded with a press conference, which most should remember, to directly address what Cuomo had done; Trump brought out a pair of lab coats from Pfizer who were directly responsible for developing this "new mRNA miracle" that might save our grandparents if they can finish it in time.  The two lab coats said, in no uncertain terms, that the Jab did not and could not target the virus. They said the elderly mortality rate was so high because Covid-19 "is a one-two punch", the virus wreaks havoc, but combined with the spikes going everywhere, it just overwhelms the immune system. They said they hope that the mRNA jab will give their immune systems a head start on the spikes, so that WHEN the elderly get infected, their immune system ONLY has to deal with the virus.

Remember that?

It never changed.

"What I find strange in these discussions is the ability to believe highly trained experts ... under strict guidelines"

Forgive the lack of brevity, but I do hope this wall of text has, in some way, answered part of your observation.

Cheers,

Edited July 15, 2023 by sbb
typos

[Freeforester]

6 hours ago, earthtwin said:

N-95 mask wearing 

I’m led to understand that certain research labs (at least in the U.K.) inoculate some test animals by means of eye drops (the eye being moist, at body temperature, a bit like a good place to start), but apart from those who conduct such trials, who knows?    It’s pretty much certain that one of the places where there was among the highest risk of coming into contact with the virus was in hospitals, where masks were worn by most if not all, pretty much from the get go; colour me skeptical, but I feel that Canadian virologist Byram Bridle was more right than wrong when he explained the likely ‘efficacy’ of all the common or garden masks in slowing or preventing viral spread, he maintained it was a ‘size matters’ type of thing, inasmuch as the smallest pores in most masks worn would let viral particles pass through largely unimpeded (akin to attempting to stop a sugar lump from passing through a hula hoop, ISTR) but again, experts disagreed on this, much like the climate ‘emergency’ experts disagree too.      
 

Ah well.

[woke rider]

The more action you can take the better because Covid is so serious. Shopping online is a good way to help protect yourself too. It takes time to get your vitamin D levels up if your doctor does a blood test and prescribes Vitamin D supplementation. Covid-19 isn't the only danger. As the population rises our risks go up, especially in dense areas like cities. Rather than argue about what the experts say we should follow common sense and take every measure possible to protect ourselves, our families and our communities from the spread of disease.

[atdlzpae]

6 minutes ago, earthtwin said:

The more action you can take the better because Covid is so serious. Shopping online is a good way to help protect yourself too. Rather than argue about what the experts say we should follow common sense and take every measure possible to protect ourselves, our families and our communities from the spread of disease.

I personally don't subscribe to a paranoia of that magnitude. The only real difference between now and 2019 to me is that prices are way, way higher.
I'll take reasonable precautions just like my parents and grandparents did. Which right now means 2000-2019 level of precautions.

10 minutes ago, earthtwin said:

Covid-19 isn't the only danger. As the population rises our risks go up, especially in dense areas like cities.

Well, that's not a problem. Demographics in the West are busted, some countries are already losing population. Others will follow soon. So just live your life and don't fear, the population of your city will soon start dropping.

Time for isolation will be when the labs release a truly deadly virus. But in 2023? Use the freedom and enjoy life while you can.

[Freeforester]

For that rainy or windy non-rideable day: another expert, of course (subtitles may be used to advantage).

All we are saying, is-give reason a chance!

Edited July 15, 2023 by Freeforester

[0000]

19 hours ago, mrelwood said:

People used to care for and understand what facts are, but in the past two decades “a fact” has been degraded to “an opinion”

I'd argue people didn’t stop caring about facts, they, for a multitude of reasons and some already pointed out in this thread, especially the way in which our education system “teaches,” became complacent in the methods they use to evaluate and eventually choose to believe whether something is true or not.

Facts are still facts. Complacency and a belief in the infallibility of our institutions, the professional people populating them, and especially towards the people running them as well as a highly ingrained deference to authority is part of what got us to this point.

19 hours ago, mrelwood said:

No matter how well researched your warnings were, there exists no reliable method of conveying that to the readers.

That’s not true. We’re evidently engaged in the activity right now. Debate. Argumentation. Even permission in the forum to express dissenting opinions on controversial issues, even better when supporting these opinions with logic, reason, and evidence. There’s a reason free speech is enshrined in the US’s bill of rights. Trust me, I don’t hold the US today as some kind of paragon of virtue (just the opposite now), but our bill of rights was pretty fucking good even though it’s effectively constantly used as toilet paper by all 3 branches of government if not outright ignored.

You cannot have choice without the ability to engage with contradicting or alternative ideas. It is why censorship is as effective as it is reprehensible and antithetical to a free society; censorship removes free will by eliminating the ability to have choice. Without choice, without informed consent, you are left with obedience and slavery.

It’s not unimaginable that we wouldn’t even be able to have this conversation online in 10 years given the directions power is moving toward with policy in the West. It’s worth thinking about the implications of what that will mean for human expression and free will.

Edit: Anyway, sorry I'm kinda straw-manning your position, I know we're on the same page with free speech and in that you probably meant there was no way to get readers to believe you if their chosen method of evaluating a position or argument is ultimately appeal to authority such as a consensus of doctors or the institute of the CDC. I just felt going into essay mode (what else is new).

19 hours ago, mrelwood said:

And with the current work environment of two-burnouts-before-retirement-at-75-or-you’ve-failed, people don’t have the time or the energy required to look into things.

And yet it’s been made easier than ever before in human history to pull out one’s smartphone at any point in the day and peruse primary sources. People don’t even have to set aside a day to go to the library anymore, the library of Alexandria is literally in our pockets.

I’m playing devil’s advocate here, but if one was going to gamble with their life, or their children’s, as some did (and lost all without real informed consent mind you, and often under some form of duress/coercion due to professional pressure), you would think they’d make some time to do their research given the conflicts of interest and incentives involved for many of the pushers.

To your point, I think the modern environment (nurture) and bad incentives has a tendency of stripping out a vital aspect of humanity that elevates us above what we would think of as base or animal. Traditionally it is the animal that either follows the carrot or gets the whip and both of these incentives were very much at play in affecting mass compliance. Still, at the end of the day you cannot discount individual accountability for choices made because without that, we are reduced to the status of slaves existing simply to follow orders and thus freed of the responsibility that comes with free will.

I have my own issues with anger toward power that have obviously damaged society and made the world a place largely inhospitable to reason, this can make it difficult to sympathize at times, but I know it doesn't change or help anything. If nothing else, it is my hope more people recognize what's happened properly for the betrayal that it was/is and are more apt to engage with reason in the future before automatically stereotyping and dismissing any whiff of conflicting/independent thought. We are not going to get justice or retribution, the best we can hope for is awakening more skeptical and self-sufficient people.

19 hours ago, mrelwood said:

Your well researched warnings were essentially right next to flat earthers’ recruitment pages, and unfortunately to an unknowledgeable person they were equals.

Yeah, labels and stereotypes are one of the primary ways power sustains itself to the point where people won’t even hear contradictory arguments that even approach questioning what is “well-known,” what is “the science,” what is “official,” what "experts say," as those are some of the authoritative labels that hold sway. Agreeing with your observation - the campaign to malign anyone with inconvenient “opinions” to power has been incredibly successful, and in a world where power is sustained not through reason, guilt by association effectively shuts down debate and thought.

19 hours ago, mrelwood said:

I was raised as a (non-fundamental) Christian. When I was a child, I thought that everybody were. It was a shock to learn in my teens that that wasn’t the case. And I never even considered whether I actually believe in that stuff until I was 20. Quit the church very soon after.

I had a similar experience and upbringing. After some degree of individuation, I found I couldn’t and still can’t submit to any kind of collective belief system. That said, lots of good people are religious and being raised in a system that instills a good moral code is infinitely superior to what we have today in the West – which is essentially, my morality is what feels good, what gains me advantage, and/or what the authorities tell me today until they tell me something different tomorrow.

19 hours ago, mrelwood said:

Point being, even the smartest and wittiest of people are slaves to being human, and unable to assess a bigger picture than what they’ve seen thus far.

Agreed, the propensity to comply with these authoritative dictates was not very well correlated to IQ. Skeptics span the full bell curve and power conveniently used those on the bottom-end to straw-man and misrepresent as all contrarian dissent where they failed to censor.

19 hours ago, mrelwood said:

Vaccines that the public health care system forces you not being actually good for you is one of those things. It’s simply unfathomable, and every criticism towards it is considered a conspiracy theory. Until their belief system crumbles from first hand experiences.

Yeah, that’s kind of where we (collectively) are at I think: crumbling in a way. A hell of a lot has to go wrong over a long period of time to perpetuate this kind of crime against humanity at the level that it happened, and as I said before I sincerely doubt (Western) civilization survives in a form free thinking people would want to live through in the long run. Unfortunately, many people had to learn the hard way, some in a way they didn’t come back from too (speaking of the #DiedSuddenly variety), but some wounds, speaking in terms of trust in your institutions and other foundational pillars, you don’t just get back up from IMO.

In any case, power never holds itself responsible, so we’ll almost certainly never get anything approaching an acknowledgment of wrong doing in any official capacity so there will always be an out for many people who don't want to recognize reality for what it is.

19 hours ago, mrelwood said:

I guess I decided to believe in the wrong “facts”.

Well I sincerely hope you suffer no more ill effects in the long term.

It was one (of many) of the logical leaps one had to make independently to give weight to the fact that they had no long term safety data and we’re still mandating the injections. Another being that logically no uninjected individual could harm another person who chose injection immunity (on the logic that the mRNA injections were actually vaccines, which they weren’t so again they changed the definition), and therefore requirements/mandates were never logically consistent as a necessity because an uninjected person’s decision never affected an injected immune person’s decision after a reasonable amount of time had passed for a population to choose one way or the other.

But they threw out Nuremberg Code (informed consent wasn't possible lacking evidence of safety and polluting available evidence such as the official Pfizer trial) with this one, so like I said, a crime against humanity.

Honestly, I really don’t know how people move forward from this if these crimes continue to go unacknowledged or addressed though. I’m thinking that the powers that be pretty much have to eliminate all of the intellectually honest people who speak out in the long run. A neo-Maoist kind of cultural revolution purge of the dissident intellectuals because if they can get people to understand even a piece of the betrayal of what’s happened, I don’t think an honest person can believe those in charge have any legitimacy in their continued rule and hold on power whatsoever.

Edited July 16, 2023 by Vanturion

[0000]

17 hours ago, Eucner said:

You can't know what the alternative fate for you would have been. It could have been better or worse. Despite all ill side effects, it still could have been the right decision.

It depends what kind of society you want to live in I suppose.

One in which you have an infinite amount of trust in the infallibility authority and authoritative institutions to the degree that you believe it's OK for them to lie to us for our own good, presumably, because they always put the best interests of society over their own self interest. This also requires you to logically accept that the good of society is superior to your own self interest, especially when those are in conflict*.

That's essentially the world we are living in today and I'll give you a few examples that demonstrate why this is exactly the case:

• Authority was clear that the "vaccines" were safe. This was a lie.
  • Official VAERS reports, notably and vastly (under)recorded by doctors who were under an immense amount of social and professional pressure not to notice or speak out against issues with the "vaccines" has attributed 35,549 deaths directly resulting from these "safe" injections in the US alone.
    • So it would follow that it was justified to sacrifice these 35,549 individuals for the greater good of society as they likely didn't understand the injections weren't safe considering the official messaging, and thus couldn't provide informed consent. In other words, it was fine that the authorities lied and continue to lie about it because their deaths somehow protect us in some way right?
       
• Authority was clear that the "vaccines" were effective at "stopping the spread". This was a lie.
  • This claim was later retreated from in favor of the completely un-provable "reducing symptoms," which was frequently expressed by making otherwise completely healthy people unnecessarily sick for days and sometimes weeks. You could read about these anecdotes online all the time, we just heard from @mrelwood above, you probably heard from some friends or colleagues how they got sick after their shot(s). Fact is, there were no official statistics in the US beyond VAERS, which is public evidence of some profound criminality that continues to go unpunished.

There are plenty of other cases in which the true statistics were obfuscated or polluted such as:

• Hospitals being monetarily incentivized to attribute COVID as cause of death,
• Each hospital recorded COVID death averaged about 4 comorbidities meaning it wasn't just or even necessarily COVID that did them in,
• Hospitals emergency room standard of care was ineffective to the point where you could argue they were assisting in expediting the extreme cases (and profiting from the accompanying Federal grant money),
• The Pfizer Clinical Trial counting mortality under 14 days from the time of injection as unvaccinated deaths (coincidentally this is the timeframe in which the vast majority of people died from the injections)
• The Pfizer Clinical Trial throwing out numerous cardio-related deaths of the participants as unrelated to their injections and thus statistically not significant
• The Pfizer Clinical Trial using removing the antigen (active component) but still using health-problematic adjuvants such as mercury (immune response stimulation) in their placebo injections
• The Pfizer Clinical Trial destroyed long term safety profile by injecting the placebo group because they reasoned it was the ethical thing to do (LOL)

The point is, if you are well-researched and intellectual honest @Eucner, in order to believe what you wrote, it would have to logically follow that despite the all of these provable lies by omission or otherwise and straight up deceits, the authorities were correct in their justifications to lie to the public for their own good.

The alternative being, you know, requiring and advocating for a world in which it isn't necessary to manage us by lying. A world where power respects informed consent, free-will, choice, human rights, and all of those other inconvenient things that were swept under the rug because people seem to want to hold fast to the belief that the authorities and "experts" knew better.

Edited July 16, 2023 by Vanturion

[0000]

16 hours ago, UniVehje said:

What I find strange in these discussions is the ability to believe highly trained experts around the world are all (or at least majority)either wrong or joined a conspiracy and have ulterior motives. If laymen doing their own research can do better job or are more reliable in this highly specialised area requiring complex statistical models under strict guidelines, we would have a big problem in the world. 

It doesn't require a PHD to look up VAERS data (or your countries equivalent) and discover that 35,549 deaths were attributed to these experimental injections. That's the official database in which vaccine induced injuries and deaths are recorded by accredited doctors (risking their reputation). People took these injections because they were often mandated or professionally coerced, and they were led to believe they were "safe and effective" by all sources of authority.

What more do you need to know to figure out that a crime has been committed? Sure, there's a lot more out there, and I've spoken often about it, but I'm confused about what you're not understanding about the simple statement above.

It may require a lack of imagination to understand that institutions and governments can fall victim to corrupt incentives and become populated with people unwilling, to be charitable, to bite the hand that feeds, especially over a long period of time. Cancer spreads, you'll see this in poorly managed companies; good/honest/ethical people quit and the other unprincipled people stay. This is a feedback loop that reinforces itself over time. It has other names too, regulatory capture - I'm sure you're familiar.

@Freeforester linked a video doing a good job describing how academia has fallen and become corrupted in this way. BTW, the (former) professor in that video didn't start to investigate and stand up against power until he was personally threatened by protestors and students and essentially ran out of his own teaching position at Evergreen University because they wanted to force a form of racial segregation for a day. I remember this as it happened close-by in my own state.

I suspect if you perceive that everything's going well for you and you weren't ever personally injured or disadvantaged unjustifiably by power or the forms in which it is expressed, then you have little incentive to try and figure out if anything untoward is happening in your/our society. I tend to think it's a matter of time before more people become sensitized to what's been going on in the West, but maybe not - I get why some people prefer a kind of comfortable ignorance.

Edited July 16, 2023 by Vanturion

[UniVehje]

27 minutes ago, Vanturion said:

It doesn't require a PHD to look up VAERS data (or your countries equivalent) and discover that 35,549 deaths were attributed to these experimental injections.

”OpenVAERS is an American anti-vaccinewebsite created in 2021 by Liz Willner.^[1][2] The website misrepresents data from the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) to promote misinformation about COVID-19 vaccines.^{[1][2][3][4]”}

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenVAERS
 

 

[0000]

56 minutes ago, UniVehje said:

”OpenVAERS is an American anti-vaccinewebsite created in 2021 by Liz Willner.

Fair enough, I'll concede that I haven't personally attempted to compile the VAERS entries myself to validate the numbers that are graphed conveniently on that website over attempting to parse a massive csv file and have been relying on this convenient compilation for arguing VAERS numbers. It's a good point, I should make an attempt to do this for one of the years recorded and see what the data says for comparison to the site. I'll quote your wiki entry -

Quote

OpenVAERS misrepresents data from the VAERS database to indicate that the COVID-19 vaccines are harmful by publishing unverified data and statistics on the number of people who have allegedly died or suffered injuries after being vaccinated against COVID-19

That's a pretty good indication that you know the VICE article referenced in the wiki and others are full of shit as they make no effort themselves to verify statistics, but every effort to go out of their way to malign an individual who took it upon themselves to make VAERS data more presentable and accessable. OpenVAERS isn't the only source of information or anecdote out there linking the #DiedSuddenly phenomenon, much less numerous injuries, directly to these injections that circulate mRNA instructions to produce spike proteins throughout your body.

Instead, the VICE article, for example, spends all their time talking about how horrible right-wing conspiracy people are going there and providing traffic to the website. Just awful. They don't even claim that the statistics are false, just unverified which is exactly what they will remain if "journalists" like these refuse to do their one and only job, verify.

Quote

OpenVAERs is “misinformation 101,”  Kolina Koltai, a postdoctoral fellow at the Center for an Informed Public at the University of Washington, told VICE News in February when we first reported on the website. 

“It's decontextualization. I literally show examples like that in classes that I teach. You take a bit of information and you remove all the other context from it. That's common with almost any misinformation you can see,” Koltai added.

That's what's funny about all of this, it just takes one hit piece, or one random "postdoctoral fellow" working in their respective indoctrination center claiming misinformation^TMand the comfort blanket can go back on. I got one for you.

Quote

"It's slanderous. I can literally show examples in the classes I don't teach. You take a bit of information and you remove all the other context from it. That's common with almost any character assassination pieces you can see." Vanturion added.

Edited July 16, 2023 by Vanturion

[atdlzpae]

1 hour ago, UniVehje said:

”OpenVAERS is an American anti-vaccinewebsite created in 2021 by Liz Willner.^[1][2] The website misrepresents data from the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) to promote misinformation about COVID-19 vaccines.^{[1][2][3][4]”}

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenVAERS

Is there any accusation of data fabrication in OpenVAERS? No.
Is the data presented in OpenVAERS in VAERS? Yes.
I looked at original VAERS. You basically get a giant .xlsx file that is a complete PITA to go through. The data is the same though.
So I'll take a website that compiles it into a neat & searchable form any day of the week.

If "decontextualization" and "misrepresentation" are the problem... Where are the good official sources? Sources that don't show that Covid "vaccine" has 40 times the mortality of all other vaccines combined? Please give us links.
Is the 40 number accurate? Of course not. You can't use it for statistical purposes. But to see a signal that "something is very wrong"? Definitely.

And this signal even though obvious is ignored. Look back at my post that shows 4 vaccine compensations worth total $9k.

########

@UniVehjeNGL, I'm disappointed. I like conversations where someone actually reads the arguments and responds with counterarguments.

Seeing this lazy response I'm sadly having flashbacks to when I talked with Paul A, and no matter how many arguments I put up, his only response was always to just copy-paste something from a random article or a CDC announcement...

Please don't be like that. Try to actually understand what the other party is saying instead of just copy-pasting random articles from the internet.

Edited July 16, 2023 by atdlzpae