What one thing do you wish your electric unicycle came with?

[on one]

@Mango Absolutely: 1,2 and 3. (and can act as a Ring device which currently are routed through police departments unofficially)

Incindentally, I will provide a stealth mode that turns off all connectivity, no RF, bluetoothe, or Wifi.

Edited June 15, 2023 by earthtwin
more ideas

[Funky]

4 hours ago, mrelwood said:

Just a reminder, some EUCs pull over 10 000 watts… That’s close to a hundred processors.

Even if the MOSFET efficiency was 95% (I have no idea what it is in reality), there’d be up to 500 watts of power warming up the heat sink and the controller. That’s a lot for a heater in a small space.

10 000Watts true motherboard? Or those 10 000Watts stay in motor?? (Sorry i still don't know how EUC work..)  

Still there have been already made some EUC's without any fans. Have people been crying about overheating? 

 

Anyways how good can the "small" laptop fan be in closed EUC case.. More or less hot air stays in the EUC case.

Best thing would be Where heatsink is placed in wheel well or somewhere while riding direct air can go true it. Like 18xl heatsink and such.. Fan almost never comes on.

Edited June 15, 2023 by Funky

[on one]

I am thinking so far that a modular system with inter-changable parts would be desire-able, because a customer might have different needs and might enjoy upgrading as they own it and progress in their skills. I would engineer a high-quality alloy frame. The size of frame would be more contingent on the size of rider and desired battery capacity than anything else. So, to start out we would be able to choose a low power or a high power model with or without suspension (could be added later for like $300-$900 depending on the shock). So a customer could just buy a really inexpensive wheel to get into the hobby/sport and upgrade components as desired. Like if the customer is more interested in using the wheel as an alternative energy source they could spend a lot on batteries with a less expensive rim/motor/tire assymbly. Or, if they want high performance then customers could could pay for more expensive components and still keep their frame and basic electronics. Like have room to add more mosfets for a high performance motor, and choose a stronger mag rim, or choose a basic less expensive rim.

 

A customer doesn't have to buy the advanced computer which would cost like $700 more dollars if they only want a basic bluetoothe  computer to start out. But the motherboard would definitely be swappable for hobbyists who want to add their own on board computer for advanced functionality. They don't have to buy the taser, but there would be a spot for one. That kind of thing.

Edited June 15, 2023 by earthtwin
more info

[ffontana]

- real waterproofing

- reliable manufacturing qualities

- good performance but not exaggerated as new ones.

- GPS tracking or any good anti theft system.

- embedded charger so can charge on any AC outlet (maybe you can have an extra fast charger at home, but also an standard embedded one)

- good front and rear lamps.

- easy disassembly for maintenance.

- modular system for easy upgrading (battery capacity for example)

 

 

Edited June 15, 2023 by ffontana

[Punxatawneyjoe]

Most of what has been said here describes the Inmotion v13 strangely enough.

IP55 for the wheel IPX7 for the batterys

A real battery management system with built in safety allowing it to run on just one battery.( it works i have tried it)

Great fit and finish

Motherboard and motor able to handle over 10k watts (forwardandbak hit 12,500 in fancy mode recently)

Bright headlight and tailight

Easy to disassemble( i can drop the wheel out of it in less than 10 minutes)

modular build (singular components can be removed easily without taking apart the entire wheel)

Redundant hull sensors for safety, double the mosfetts, double the caps, Tiltback for safety installed in the firmware.

Built to withstand a crash( several have crashed and still worked fine afterwards)

Now they just need better QC on each unit so we aren't replacing 1/2 the wheel because of poor quality control on each of the components the wheel is using from other vendors.

[on one]

Graphene battery option https://www.thomasnet.com/insights/7-lithium-battery-alternatives/

Edited June 15, 2023 by earthtwin
link

[Funky]

21 minutes ago, Punxatawneyjoe said:

Most of what has been said here describes the Inmotion v13 strangely enough.

IP55 for the wheel IPX7 for the batterys

A real battery management system with built in safety allowing it to run on just one battery.( it works i have tried it)

Great fit and finish

Motherboard and motor able to handle over 10k watts (forwardandbak hit 12,500 in fancy mode recently)

Bright headlight and tailight

Easy to disassemble( i can drop the wheel out of it in less than 10 minutes)

modular build (singular components can be removed easily without taking apart the entire wheel)

Redundant hull sensors for safety, double the mosfetts, double the caps, Tiltback for safety installed in the firmware.

Built to withstand a crash( several have crashed and still worked fine afterwards)

Now they just need better QC on each unit so we aren't replacing 1/2 the wheel because of poor quality control on each of the components the wheel is using from other vendors.

Yeah it's awesome wheel.. For those who like electric motorcycles!!!

For rest of world a 3-4000 Watt, 35-40mph wheel is plenty. 

And worst of all it's weight is a deal breaker for many.

 

If only something in 70lbs where made like V13. Make smaller battery pack, less powerful motor, anything to make it lighter. Under 70lbs would be perfect.

 

Edited June 15, 2023 by Funky

[Unventor]

A formula 1 tire change and service crew. 

I guess it come from the 75+ screws to change tire/tube on a V11... Maybe just me. 😁

[sWiFt]

2 hours ago, Funky said:

Yeah it's awesome wheel.. For those who like electric motorcycles!!!

For rest of world a 3-4000 Watt, 35-40mph wheel is plenty. 

And worst of all it's weight is a deal breaker for many.

He makes a good point tho! While I do agree its a borderline monstertruck, the weight is not uncommon in the big mean machine scope of EUCs released lately. EX30, Sherman S, Master, all clock in just below 50Kg. Sure, Im somewhat partial as an owner, but besides it being a pain to lug around, the increased weight makes for a more stable and perhaps safer wheel in some use cases imo. Sure 80kmh cruise is possible but I go 40 if 40 is enough, and brutally enjoy the fact that I have an ocean of speed and power headroom, all redundant electronics and a sexy beast between my legs.

To be fair, if a wheel checks all the above perks, I would expect it to be somewhat heavy and expensive. We all want extreme range, speed and safety in a tiny form factor for cheap, but perhaps a further evolution of these things require us to accept certain downsides in one or more said areas.

Hopefully we´ll soon see new gen battery tech and composites (rim, windings, body) stronger and lighter than the current thing. Then sell a kidney or two to get it. If I could get ONE thing for all and any EUC it would be a new battery type, imo the biggest impact to the concept of EUC.

Anyhows, at the end of the day I really love what Inmotion are up to and it feels fresh. Looking back, the one thing IPS left me wishing for was an instruction manual. My MSX had me wishing for a mudflap. Naturally, I was missing a stand and a seat for the v13.  

Oh, and I also crashed mine on the asphalt already. It still purrs and the scars are fashionable.

Edited June 15, 2023 by sWiFt

[Punxatawneyjoe]

2 hours ago, Funky said:

worst of all it's weight is a deal breaker for many.

I'm surprised to keep hearing this stance from you, Aren't you slightly larger than the average person? From what i have read you are in the 220lb or heavier as you have previously stated. I would think you would want a larger wheel, more stable.  The weight thing i have been hearing since before i even got the wheel and honestly, it now feels like my v11 is a toy. As long as you don't have to pick it up and carry it anywhere it rolls just about anywhere. Even up stairs, no problem. The wheel doesn't feel at all to heavy now that i have been using it . I can turn in a 2' circle if need be and it stops faster than most bicycles. I think the weight thing scares people off but it shouldn't. You don't even think about it after the first week or so. And just because it's capable of 60mph that doesn't mean you have to go that fast. It has plenty of range if you are just putting along. I'm glad it's that heavy, you don't get blown off the road on a windy day and your not constantly making micro corrections to every crack or bump in the road. ok , i admit it. I'm a v13 fan boy....

[mrelwood]

7 hours ago, Funky said:

10 000Watts true motherboard? Or those 10 000Watts stay in motor??

Each watt the motor gives out comes from the battery, and through the motherboard. And each step has some losses, increasing the wattage when you go upstream towards the battery.

 Or are you thinking about the motor’s nominal wattage rating? It only tells us how much power the motor can handle for extended periods of time. The controller decides how much power it takes from the battery and gives to the motor, and it can easily surpass the nominal wattage rating. I don’t accelerate especially fast, but I usually get peaks of about 3000W on a 2200W V11.

When I said over 10 000 W, I was talking about the actual wattage that some EUCs can provide, not about the  wattage rating.

 

6 hours ago, earthtwin said:

a customer might have different needs and might enjoy upgrading as they own it and progress in their skills.

Having many features to choose from has a few crucial problems though: cost and delivery time. If they would be assembled at the factory, each wheel would be a custom order that would take 3 or (probably) more months to arrive. If they’re assembled at the distributor, the assembly costs western work hours. And distributors can’t stock all various mainboards, motors, batteries etc anyway since the EUCs don’t sell enough for that. Even the worst selling laptop model surely sells much more than any EUC.

 New cars with one’s preferred color and features can take over a year to arrive. That wouldn’t suffice for EUCs.

 Also, the options and features that keep popping up in new EUCs are not something the manufacturer can prepare for. A year ago no-one thought that a ShermS style shock would be coming to EUCs, so the frame and the battery shapes would have to be redesigned anyway.

 

1 hour ago, Punxatawneyjoe said:

As long as you don't have to pick it up and carry it anywhere it rolls just about anywhere.

That’s just it! Many of us DO have to pick up or carry their wheel. Maybe not often, but they still must be able to do it every once in a while.

Besides, many riders appreciate a low amount of effort needed for accelerating. The heavier the wheel is (and the bigger the tire diameter), the more effort it requires from the rider.

I got to test ride the ShermS shortly. I took a healthy forward lean, and it was like I was given a number in a waiting line saying “we’ll get back to you on the acceleration part, just wait patiently!” It… just… didn’t… accelerate! It was probably in hard mode, but still.

[Punxatawneyjoe]

25 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

I got to test ride the ShermS shortly. I took a healthy forward lean, and it was like I was given a number in a waiting line saying “we’ll get back to you on the acceleration part, just wait patiently!” It… just… didn’t… accelerate! It was probably in hard mode, but still.

Luckily the v13 has acceleration and brake assist.

33 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

That’s just it! Many of us DO have to pick up or carry their wheel

I am not being a smart ass but where would you be picking up and carrying it?

[alcatraz]

13 hours ago, mrelwood said:

Just a reminder, some EUCs pull over 10 000 watts… That’s close to a hundred processors.

Even if the MOSFET efficiency was 95% (I have no idea what it is in reality), there’d be up to 500 watts of power warming up the heat sink and the controller. That’s a lot for a heater in a small space.

Great point! 500w is almost a toaster.

Inmotion would limit performance if it's running hot.

Also, there could be a fan mod if it isn't enough. No big deal, as long as there aren't any accidents.

Mosfets can run fine at 80C (if I remember the datasheet). The hotspots however, could be a lot higher. That's what fans address, and heatsinks or closed compartments might not as well. What's considered an overheating control board? 65C? That also aims to address hot spots. Other components might not tolerate 65+ temps.

In computer heatsink reviews they speak of temperature delta. At 20C ambient you have a big delta (65-20C = 45D), at 40C a large chunk of that delta is gone (25D), and so goes your cooling. Add 500w on top and the wheel limits are definitely going to kick in.

[alcatraz]

A well constructed heatsink should have some fins internally as well so that a fan can transfer heat inside a closed compartment. 

I remember when I got my msx84. I noticed that it didn't heat up much. Never over 44C. It used to please me. Now, after my board failure the same symptom terrifies me. I WANT the temp to rise under load because it indicates that the cooling system is working. The mosfets are transfering heat into the heatsink.

If it stays unusually cool (compared to other same model wheels) then that's a RED LIGHT. Learn to notice these things, stay safe.

[Planemo]

1 hour ago, alcatraz said:

I remember when I got my msx84. I noticed that it didn't heat up much. Never over 44C.

Agreed! My MSX was good on heat too, rarely over 42c but I did have it spike to 55c.  As you know that wheel used an external heatsink facing into the wheel well with an internal fan blowing over the board. The internal compartment was largely sealed so I was never convinced the fan was doing much though, especially given how feeble it was and with zero ducting anywhere. The system did *seem* pretty stable with temps though so on the face of it worked OK, but of course that opinion is only based on the effectiveness of the temp sensor placement/quality which I'm not convinced was ideal on the MSX or indeed any wheels of the day. I would like to see several (probably at least 6) high quality sensors located at key points on the boards/fets.

1 hour ago, alcatraz said:

It used to please me. Now, after my board failure the same symptom terrifies me. I WANT the temp to rise under load because it indicates that the cooling system is working. The mosfets are transfering heat into the heatsink.

I'd like to see an initial temp rise then remain totally static whatever the load, like a car. The ideal way to achieve this is via water cooling and a thermostat. I accept the added complexity/packaging of this may never be ideal for EUC's though. Next best is simply a massive heatsink cooled by air which the Z10 had but again, whether the current crop of huge power EUC's could package a suitably sized heatsink is anyones guess. We don't seem to be overheating wheels these days so who am I to judge but I would suspect there are still huge real-world temperature variations on our boards which in a perfect world shouldn't exist - our fets can have rapid temp fluctuations which should be carefully monitored and tbf I think Inmotion is probably on the ball than others in terms of system monitoring. Most seem to just be going the large heatsink route and hoping for the best but at the end of the day air cooling is always going to have it's limitations when it comes to temp stability hence my wish that we had water cooling - I would take the complexity and added checking/maintenance over air cooling any day to get rock solid stable board temps. Of course I don't think I could trust the current manufacturers to build such a system at the moment. That said the Extreme Bull K4 had water cooling some years back and I'm not aware of any issues with the system, and it's been used on the range until today on the K6.

[0000]

3 hours ago, Punxatawneyjoe said:

I am not being a smart ass but where would you be picking up and carrying it?

Gonna interject and take a shot at this question since it's near and dear if you don't mind @mrelwood

I store my wheel in an Airforce flyers kit bag and it lives either on my passenger seat or in the lowest space behind the passenger seat of the van when traveling to keep the interior clean. Since it often goes in and out of the vehicle for guerilla charging, I'm either doing the one arm lug-and-lean or huffing it in the forward carry position. It's only a 65 lb wheel, but I seriously doubt I'd be doing the same manuevers with a V13, at least not without a year of dedicated iron temple time, and a fully supply of HGH and muscle milk .

Oh yeah, I also frequently have to halfways pick it up out of the bushes after getting sloppy with pedal clips on the trails which actually happened at least twice today coincidentally.

And one last thing I'm remembering now - I've been trying to hit the jumps a bit more lately, at least ones without gaps so far, and was just thinking how the feeling of the hang-time experience would be further improved by carrying less weight with you on your feet. The heavier the anchor, the more critical it is getting the approach and landing just right, or at least that's how it seems to me. Not to mention increasing the effort, I'm assuming, for all of the dynamic manuevers and body positioning on the trail. Running no suspension, you can't straight leg as much even if you wanted to.

So there ya go, a few practical reasons right there - I'm sure others got more.

Edited June 16, 2023 by Vanturion

[mrelwood]

4 hours ago, Punxatawneyjoe said:

Luckily the v13 has acceleration and brake assist.

Which in my mind just imitate the ride mode behavior on Sherman Max for example. That thing is rocking like a rocking chair even in hard mode. So the assists apply slow softness, while the pedal hardness brings fast softness (like a futon), if that makes sense.

4 hours ago, Punxatawneyjoe said:

I am not being a smart ass but where would you be picking up and carrying it?

@Vanturion already brought up a great example. For me it’s just lifting it into the boot of my car, and on my workshop table for cleaning and maintenance. I no longer have the legs to ride for 100km in a day.

 

3 hours ago, alcatraz said:

Mosfets can run fine at 80C

I think it’s much higher than that. I saw an article about a new gen mosfet that’s fine up to 175•C.

3 hours ago, alcatraz said:

In computer heatsink reviews they speak of temperature delta. At 20C ambient you have a big delta (65-20C = 45D), at 40C a large chunk of that delta is gone (25D), and so goes your cooling.

I think the delta on EUCs is much larger, which is why a fan in the sealed compartment works. The MSX peaking at 44•C was a good example, that’s where the temp gets up to at an irrelevant part of the board. I’d call that the ambient temperature, while the mosfets and their legs can peak at well over 100•C. There’s still 60•C of delta available for cooling.

 The V11’s “fan assisted passive cooling” seems to work just fine for it’s power. There is a big cooling block that extends as the controller cover, which is then (slightly?) cooled down by the fan in the headlight unit when necessary.

 Isn’t the V13 controller a fanless design though? If that doesn’t overheat, it definitely can be done for every EUC with proper design.

[Funky]

5 hours ago, Punxatawneyjoe said:

I am not being a smart ass but where would you be picking up and carrying it?

I'm not being a smart ass either. But not everyone has a private house, where they can roll right into bed... Some of us have a apartments, where you need to carry to fifth floor.

I personally want a big strong handle right in middle of EUC. So you can carry it one handed. I don't want to use two hands to carry any EUC..

Edited June 16, 2023 by Funky

[Funky]

8 hours ago, Punxatawneyjoe said:

I'm surprised to keep hearing this stance from you, Aren't you slightly larger than the average person? From what i have read you are in the 220lb or heavier as you have previously stated. I would think you would want a larger wheel, more stable.  The weight thing i have been hearing since before i even got the wheel and honestly, it now feels like my v11 is a toy. As long as you don't have to pick it up and carry it anywhere it rolls just about anywhere. Even up stairs, no problem. The wheel doesn't feel at all to heavy now that i have been using it . I can turn in a 2' circle if need be and it stops faster than most bicycles. I think the weight thing scares people off but it shouldn't. You don't even think about it after the first week or so. And just because it's capable of 60mph that doesn't mean you have to go that fast. It has plenty of range if you are just putting along. I'm glad it's that heavy, you don't get blown off the road on a windy day and your not constantly making micro corrections to every crack or bump in the road. ok , i admit it. I'm a v13 fan boy....

Yes i'm 280lbs. And i have no need of big/fast/heavy wheels. Simply because i'm not riding with cars.. (We don't even ride with cars here.) And going on sidewalks at 40km/h speeds are plenty fast.

While riding weight means jack shit. It's when you are carrying to 3rd floor everyday and maybe 4 times a day sometimes. My sweet spot is anything under 65LBS. Anything heavier is automatically a shit/trash wheel to me.. Sure i would love to own Sherman-Max myself. But again - i have no need. I don't need super range, very fast EUC.. I need daily max 10km. Fun rides 40km. As for speeds i ride around 35-44km/h mostly. Sure i could start going faster and such.. But again - i have no need.

Range wise even 1554Wh is way, way more than i ever would need.

Everyone has their own needs.. And i never will need one of those big wheels. Simply because of what type of rider i am.

 

Edited June 16, 2023 by Funky

[Mono]

18 hours ago, earthtwin said:

I will provide audio and video inputs and outputs for use as a DVR----1 terabyte, also provide video projection lens. Can connect to computer device to exchange information and back up computers, phones, tablets. Can be used as wireless router. Can run software, especially to control euc use as an alternative energy source.

13 hours ago, earthtwin said:

I am thinking so far that a modular system with inter-changable parts would be desire-able, because a customer might have different needs and might enjoy upgrading as they own it and progress in their skills. I would engineer a high-quality alloy frame. The size of frame would be more contingent on the size of rider and desired battery capacity than anything else. So, to start out we would be able to choose a low power or a high power model with or without suspension (could be added later for like $300-$900 depending on the shock). So a customer could just buy a really inexpensive wheel to get into the hobby/sport and upgrade components as desired. Like if the customer is more interested in using the wheel as an alternative energy source they could spend a lot on batteries with a less expensive rim/motor/tire assymbly. Or, if they want high performance then customers could could pay for more expensive components and still keep their frame and basic electronics. Like have room to add more mosfets for a high performance motor, and choose a stronger mag rim, or choose a basic less expensive rim.

 

A customer doesn't have to buy the advanced computer which would cost like $700 more dollars if they only want a basic bluetoothe  computer to start out. But the motherboard would definitely be swappable for hobbyists who want to add their own on board computer for advanced functionality. They don't have to buy the taser, but there would be a spot for one. That kind of thing.

 

OK, you are trolling, right? I mean, we all know that this it not going to happen in the real world of engineering, right?

Edited June 16, 2023 by Mono

[Planemo]

1 hour ago, mrelwood said:

Which in my mind just imitate the ride mode behavior on Sherman Max for example. That thing is rocking like a rocking chair even in hard mode.

 Really?!

I thought the Sherman was pretty solid, and that was on my usual medium mode!

Yourself being someone who has ridden one and the later Inmotion wheels I will take your word for it re the comparison, I'm just really surprised. I haven't ridden any Inmotions since my V5F (which felt super solid/zippy which I just attributed to the size/diameter).

Just goes to show that unless you directly compare wheels you wouldn't know, and also demonstrates how 'acclimatised' one gets to a particular wheel!

[on one]

6 hours ago, mrelwood said:

Having many features to choose from has a few crucial problems though: cost and delivery time. If they would be assembled at the factory, each wheel would be a custom order that would take 3 or (probably) more months to arrive. If they’re assembled at the distributor, the assembly costs western work hours. And distributors can’t stock all various mainboards, motors, batteries etc anyway since the EUCs don’t sell enough for that. Even the worst selling laptop model surely sells much more than any EUC.

Thanks for bringing this up. Lots of us enjoy working on our own EUC's, but new riders might not be ready to work on their own wheel yet, or ever decide too. My philosophy on this is open ended. While lipo batteries are industry standard, waiting for graphene batteries isn't realistic, but I would have an open ended design. The controller board would be the same for all the EUC's but features would be unlocked, or added as desired. I actually encourage "Hacking" not in the negative way, but like the old Apple Computer "Home Brew" clubs.

37 minutes ago, Mono said:

OK, you are trolling, right? I mean, we all know that this it not going to happen in the real world of engineering, right?

lol, Mono. No, I'm not trolling. I really want to do this.

Edited June 16, 2023 by earthtwin
more info

[on one]

The power just went out in my whole apartment complex. If I had the EUC that I intend to build, I could simply plug in a power strip to the AC port and and be good to go, but nope, the best I have right now is a Lipo lantern and my old KS14D as usb power.

[Funky]

@earthtwin Let's be honest. If you include everything that we have said in this post.. It will weigh over 45kg easily. And cost over 6000$.

Now if it was under 30kg.. I would be ready to pay that 6000$. Otherwise no thanks.  

[on one]

@FunkyYes, absolutely under 30kg. Lets deconstruct your KS18XL. King Song is a good brand with high quality components. Lets research how much the batteries weigh--->4.5kg, motor hub assembly? (likely the heaviest component -must save weight here), frame?, everything else? My customers would want to probably double the battery capacity right off the bat since I'm marketing it as a personal power device. Can be charged by wind, hydro, and/or solar. Incidentally, my EUC's range will be phenomenal. Imagine trekking on your wheel, finding a brook and camping for a couple nights while hydro charging back to full capacity? Fishing in a pool upstream because you actually need the food. Being able to live completely off grid? Emergency power. It's a freeing concept.

A basic wheel that is similar to a V8 with all the electronics and power management software should be available for less than $900, but the solar panels, hydro assembly, or personal windmill would be extra. The attachable wagon would be extra of course. If a camper were to trek in base camp wagon mode then the wheel would mostly function as a beast of burden.

Edited June 16, 2023 by earthtwin
more info