Inmotion V14 Adventure: a new trail wheel from Inmotion

[techyiam]

3 hours ago, Eucner said:

That looks like too large bearing. It will be expensive from quality manufacturer, so we are going to see a lower quality one chosen. Large diameter will also increase rolling resistance and shorten mileage.

@mrelwood have been able to source inexpensive alternatives.

I own a Begode T3, and the big stock bearings is running fine for over 8000 kilometers so far. I not really seeing the theoretical negatives so far. Are there actual statistical data to back this up. Personally, I think the wheel may conk out before the bearings. The build quality isn't like the V12 or the Abrams. The large diameter bearings appear to be the least of my worries with the T3 right now. The display and headlight stopped working. Also, the plastic shell and other parts aren't that durable.

Edited August 24, 2023 by techyiam

[techyiam]

9 minutes ago, Eucner said:

It's sad to see novice mistakes repeated.

Gotway/Begode pervasively and perennially. But many people buy their their wheels repeatedly. 

[Eucner]

4 minutes ago, techyiam said:

I not really seeing the theoretical negatives so far. Are there actual statistical data to back this up.

The real world negatives of larger bearing size:

• More expensive (look shop prices).
• More rolling resistance (basic mechanics from larger radius, look also for bearing catalogs).
• More seal resistance (basic mechanics from larger radius, look also for bearing catalogs).
• More prone to water intrusion (larger sealing area, closer to water from beneath).

[Paul g]

19 minutes ago, Eucner said:

The real world negatives of larger bearing size:

• More expensive (look shop prices).
• More rolling resistance (basic mechanics from larger radius, look also for bearing catalogs).
• More seal resistance (basic mechanics from larger radius, look also for bearing catalogs).
• More prone to water intrusion (larger sealing area, closer to water from beneath).

   I absolutely agree with you on these, the last two points being extremely important for an off-road wheel, and on loose bolts being the cause of broken bolts, but the idea with the bigger bolts being better is that when we have small diameter ones, the thread breaks easy(on the shell) because the shell where the bolts screw into is made out of Aluminium and then we get the loose bolts. That is why it is important to have bigger diameter bolts on these wheels.

     Edit: Sorry, it’s the Aluminium of the motor hub, not shell, but these issues with loose bolts and broken threads appear on the shells as well.

Edited August 24, 2023 by Paul g

[Rawnei]

From Facebook commentary section of V14 post by Inmotion:

[techyiam]

11 minutes ago, Eucner said:

The real world negatives of larger bearing size:

• More expensive (look shop prices).
• More rolling resistance (basic mechanics from larger radius, look also for bearing catalogs).
• More seal resistance (basic mechanics from larger radius, look also for bearing catalogs).
• More prone to water intrusion (larger sealing area, closer to water from beneath).

But people have found affordable alternatives. Ask @mrelwood.

It may be so theoretically, but how significant is it for electric wheels applications.

Most electric wheels are not cruising at 60+ mph for hours and hours. So mileage is quite low for most owners.

Having my T3 ownership experience, I am not worry about that anymore. That so call cheap bearings in my T3 is quite durable. And I had no issues riding in rain, even in torrential downpours. We get a lot of precipitation in these parts. There is no way I could tell the rolling resistance is measurably worst. Wrong grease application is way more pronounce, by orders of magnitude. I know because I experienced it. I lubed the bearings in different ways. Plus I compared it to my V12 and Abrams.

[Paul g]

Just now, Rawnei said:

From Facebook commentary section of V14 post by Inmotion:

    Wow! Is InMotion getting it better and better with this one? Big statements until now, let’s hope it won’t be a flop  

[mrelwood]

6 hours ago, onkeldanuel said:

Yeah finally large hole again , great for torque but you are right, hope they learned how to design a proper bearing cover 

I’m also curious about this. How and why would the axle/hole diameter affect torque?

 

2 hours ago, techyiam said:

But people have found affordable alternatives. Ask @mrelwood.

You have a worrisomely good memory!  But yeah, 20€ a piece for the 6816 bearings for the 1st gen V11. 50€ for stainless steel ones. The prices have probably come up since though, like everything in the world. The shop is located in Germany:

https://www.kugellager-express.de/

[bpong]

3 hours ago, mrelwood said:

I’m also curious about this. How and why would the axle/hole diameter affect torque?

 

You have a worrisomely good memory!  But yeah, 20€ a piece for the 6816 bearings for the 1st gen V11. 50€ for stainless steel ones. The prices have probably come up since though, like everything in the world. The shop is located in Germany:

https://www.kugellager-express.de/

now y'all making me abit uncomfortable now...

[Unventor]

7 hours ago, techyiam said:

@mrelwood have been able to source inexpensive alternatives.

I own a Begode T3, and the big stock bearings is running fine for over 8000 kilometers so far. I not really seeing the theoretical negatives so far. Are there actual statistical data to back this up. Personally, I think the wheel may conk out before the bearings. The build quality isn't like the V12 or the Abrams. The large diameter bearings appear to be the least of my worries with the T3 right now. The display and headlight stopped working. Also, the plastic shell and other parts aren't that durable.

It just seems as a big collecting community there will always be critical voices and they are often very laud. 

What I mean is we mostly hear about stuff not working as expected yet somehow they tend to do for many. I am glad your ( @Rawnei) purchase worked/works fine. This is what we all want hopefully. 

Right now a lot of debate yet little data and no teardown to get some facts straight. One thing is how things work in theory but once shaped into a full product some get surprised. 

I have had a KS16X that had issues yet for most part those that didn't push it topspeed limit would find it a good wheel for what it was or is. 

Same with KS18L (have it still in basement) or better the later KS18XL (didn't own it but friend do). 

Now the V11 is kinda my Alpha Romeo 1980 sportscar. Huge smile but it break down from time to time. Not always the wheels fault. I fried mine 2 times not been focused enough during servicing it. Yes that could be designed better yet it isn't so I learned my lesson I hope. 😁

That is part why I have asked people at Inmotion to set design focus for easier and more streight forward service. 

I hope we might see this showing off as model interation of new releases see the daylight. 

V11 was first step V12 was still in same design language. V13 first of a new era and V14/Adventure is the next link of the chain. 

I might just look aside for a weight increase if all other things are greenlight. Speed is not an issue at all in my book. 

[Unventor]

1 hour ago, bpong said:

now y'all making me abit uncomfortable now...

Well today's modern wheels have performances (please don't read this as speed alone it is meant in the very wide term here) very different to what you have on your profile. 

With this risk will go up. It is a matter of calculated risk. Also why I am not a speed demon or aggressive rider. It should always be the back of the mind things can break. And they will eventually.

As an example I had 2 crashes due to puncture. I knew I were in trouble at first one before it happened on my V8. My first major crash at near V8 topspeed 30ish kmh. 

On my V11 it came out of the blue but due to a valve detached from the tube.  But due to first experience I had much much better gear to help me out. Still gravity is not always your best friend. 

Now with wide bore motor vs axel design this has moved along and it is the natural progression. You can read about why in this forum (discussed in V11 threads a lot). But first design will always bring lessons learned for next generation design. I am pretty sure Inmotion have had a team on this since V11 to improve this as it is a key part to keep weight down amongst other benafit too. 

[bpong]

1 hour ago, Unventor said:

...,

With this risk will go up. It is a matter of calculated risk. Also why I am not a speed demon or aggressive rider. It should always be the back of the mind things can break. And they will eventually.

,...

your statement above reflects what im thinking when im riding too.... i used to ride aggressively for the low speed that my tesla can generate but after a few bounces/falls im now quite content and cautious to ride at 40kph.  it also gets me thinking whether or not i really need that modern wheel since im quite content with my old tesla.  but the curiosity to try something new like suspension and more powerful motor is just too compelling to ignore.  "i gots to see whats its all about", ... but exercising caution at the same time...

[techyiam]

44 minutes ago, bpong said:

your statement above reflects what im thinking when im riding too.... i used to ride aggressively for the low speed that my tesla can generate but after a few bounces/falls im now quite content and cautious to ride at 40kph.  it also gets me thinking whether or not i really need that modern wheel since im quite content with my old tesla.  but the curiosity to try something new like suspension and more powerful motor is just too compelling to ignore.  "i gots to see whats its all about", ... but exercising caution at the same time...

I am quite certain my speed will go up where the conditions allow if I get a suspension wheel like the Patton or V13.

However, I take mitigating risks very seriously. I think overall, with a suspension wheel, I should be less prone to getting into a single vehicle accidents. On the roads that I ride on, there can be so many types of road irregularities. I find ones that are harder to avoid are the depressions made by something very heavy that dented the asphalt within a couple days before.

Edited August 24, 2023 by techyiam

[Paul g]

3 minutes ago, techyiam said:

I am quite certain my speed will go up where the conditions allow if I get a suspension wheel like the Patton or V13.

However, I take mitigating risks very seriously. I think overall, with a suspension wheel, I should be less prone to getting into a single vehicle accidents. On the roads that I ride on, there can be so many types of road irregularities. I find ones that are harder to avoid are the depressions made by something very heavy that dented the asphalt within a couple days before.

     I have similar issues and I hope a good suspension wheel will solve it. We have our share of bad roads around here and the most dangerous are the potholes when I have to ride on the same lane with the cars as I can’t see the pothole coming since the car in front of me covers it. I could say in the city I can have an off-road experience??    . I tried out the Patton on a really large(30cm/12”) and dip pothole and I just couldn’t believe the experience.  We also have speed bumps around here, they are very dangerous if you don’t see them at night and they can throw one off really badly.

[Unventor]

Well in short if you have not tried a suspension wheel, then have not unlocked the full fun and safety potential just yet. 

It doesn't need to be perfect butter gliding to make a serious help to your riding. I have had rides on my V11 that would have been serious situation with major injury to follow. Now the V11 was first V13 to follow and now with a new different system that hopefully is more like a setup and forget vs the V11 that need routine check ups. 

[bpong]

the link below is a rambling video from chooch tech.  IMO, its a video primarily about his opinions about the wheel,  containing no more factual information other than what we have gathered from the 2 released teasers.  i get the feeling he is trying abit too hard to pitch this wheel.  you better have a medium or large coffee or energy drink before viewing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4TvHebPA-Q

 

[MadVlad]

18 hours ago, bpong said:

the link below is a rambling video from chooch tech.  IMO, its a video primarily about his opinions about the wheel,  containing no more factual information other than what we have gathered from the 2 released teasers.  i get the feeling he is trying abit too hard to pitch this wheel.  you better have a medium or large coffee or energy drink before viewing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4TvHebPA-Q

 

To be fair thats like every other video of his, I think he is just hoping to get an early wheel from them. That guy is the ultimate hype man for every suspension wheel.

[Unventor]

There are a fair 'few' you tubers I don't watch content from as they clearly only care for clicks and subscriptions. 

That said Chooch use the wheels he like I guess. It doesn't match my use and priority. Due to that I don't waste time and in this way make them earn on my view time. 

There are others I do like listen to what they have to say. Not necessarily how I view things but Chooch and Madpack made a no attention list I have. 

I would like to see what Duf think of it. Or even better MrElwood is he was given the chance. Yes I did put up an application myself but it is not likely I get picked for this. Yet AI have not heard if all has been selected so far. Yet it matter not much as tester for now would have a NDA. 

That said I am just until next week for more news from Inmotion. 

I am waiting also to see how good a trolley function the Adventure will have. I know the style of it but that means nothing until we hear real life feel and how it is executed. 

[Wally]

Seems to be similar to BMW and new Goldwing front suspension,  can carry more weight more stabile.  They show upper and lower slider bushings, which is what a motorcycle uses, so if done right should be great

[techyiam]

The plot thickens just before the Official launch of the Inmotion V14 Adventure.

According to Smartwheels.ca:  V14 Adventure at Smartwheel.ca

Quote

• Double Suspension System: Suspension sliders on sides and coil suspension on the rear. The V14 Adventure has a double suspension system that provides a comfortable and stable ride over rough terrain. The suspension sliders on the sides absorb bumps and vibrations, while the coil suspension on the rear provides additional support.

If the Inmotion V14 Adventure indeed has a double suspension, that would make it a first. But I am not sure how they are going to keep the weight down.

Under the specs section, the cells listed are Samsung 50S. But in the description, it listed Samsung 50E cells.

Pedal height is adjustable.

Also, battery capacity is listed as 1800 Wh, which is kind of wonky.

Assuming 134.4 V:

32 cells x 3.6 V (nominal voltage for either 50E or 50S) x 5 Ah x 3P = 1728 Wh.

Hopefully on September 1, everything will be cleared up at the Official Launch of the Inmotion V14 Adventure.

Edited August 27, 2023 by techyiam

[Rollin-on-1]

57 minutes ago, techyiam said:

The plot thickens just before the Official launch of the Inmotion V14 Adventure.

According to Smartwheels.ca:  V14 Adventure at Smartwheel.ca

If the Inmotion V14 Adventure indeed has a double suspension, that would make it a first. But I am not sure how they are going to keep the weight down.

Under the specs section, the cells listed are Samsung 50S. But in the description, it listed Samsung 50E cells.

Pedal height is adjustable.

Also, battery capacity is listed as 1800 Wh, which is kind of wonky.

Assuming 134.4 V:

32 cells x 3.6 V (nominal voltage for either 50E or 50S) x 5 Ah x 3P = 1728 Wh.

Hopefully on September 1, everything will be cleared up at the Official Launch of the Inmotion V14 Adventure.

This has got to be a translation error.  The chances of fork suspension plus a linkage suspension with a progressive coil would be like a belt and suspenders for a pair of overalls.  

I would view that level of triple redundancy as IM not knowing what they are doing and just throwing everything they can think of at the problem.  I just don't see the Smartwheel info being credible.

[techyiam]

10 minutes ago, Rollin-on-1 said:

This has got to be a translation error.  The chances of fork suspension plus a linkage suspension with a progressive coil would be like a belt and suspenders for a pair of overalls. 

Perhaps.

Although, the wording of the last sentence can imply that the linkage suspension is for handling the big hits, while the small bump compliance is handled by the hydraulic struts.

 

1 hour ago, techyiam said:

The suspension sliders on the sides absorb bumps and vibrations, while the coil suspension on the rear provides additional support.

 

[Paul g]

1 hour ago, techyiam said:

The plot thickens just before the Official launch of the Inmotion V14 

Also, battery capacity is listed as 1800 Wh, which is kind of wonky.

 

    That would put many people off, including my self. If they decided to make a wheel with customisable battery capacity why would they go for such a low maximum capacity? That would be wrong from the start. If it would be 2400Wh then if I want I could go lower, but could never go higher. That being  said, I think it would kill it completely if it were to be true, which I hope it isn’t.

[meepmeepmayer]

I assume this is just bad info on a dealer's site.

If not, maybe it's a 134V wheel, sold with 1800Wh (3 battery packs + 1 empty dummy pack) by default, and people can add a fourth pack to get 2400Wh. I guess that could make a bit of sense if removable batteries are a thing (still not believing in that, looking at the pictures) and they want to keep the perceived default price lower. I think it would be easier to just offer 2400Wh right away and lose the removable battery effort overhead and complications, but who knows.

If it's really 100V, then it better be really good (and not too expensive) to work out. Could happen, the Sherman-S is 100V after all, too. But it would be a bit disappointing, and as already mentioned above - what would even be the point of removable batteries then if the max is 1800Wh?

[jimjam.nyc]

Double suspension would only add complexity for no reason. More things to breakdown or maintain, plus added weight for no real reason.

Inmotion themselves put a video out on the suspension already and spoke about the sealed sliders directly. I doubt they would leave this out.

I really hope it's a translation error.