Commander Mini (2400Wh 50E, 134V, 16in tire/12in rim, 40kg/88lb, 3200W C38 motor, suspension, speakers)

[techyiam]

Here we have an insider who doesn't give a satisfying justification as why he doesn't think much of the Commander Mini. In Electric Dreams' latest video on the Unboxing of the Begode Extreme, @Jack ex-KS said he will compare the Extreme to other wheels in its class except for the Commander Mini because he isn't all the interested it. In stark contrast, Marty Backe posted how much he liked the Commander Mini.

Timestamped.

 

Edited August 5, 2023 by techyiam

[slippyfeet]

That's disappointing to hear about his disinterest.  At least we'll have Albert doing the comparison once he gets his in BC.

[techyiam]

On 8/5/2023 at 11:44 AM, slippyfeet said:

That's disappointing to hear about his disinterest.  At least we'll have Albert doing the comparison once he gets his in BC.

I got to ride very briefly a Commander Mini with a street tire in a parking lot setting and some cones.

I rode my V12 to the event. I rode back to back my V12 and the Commander Mini. I am not a heavy nor big person, so I can't access the torque like other people. I felt that I could accelerate easier on my V12. Although, my V12 wobbles during hard braking before, I managed to tune the wobbles out. In contrast, the Commander Mini wobbles during braking. The Mini felt heavier compared to my V12, and is not as agile as the V12. But for my type of riding, that is of no consequence. The Mini rode too firmly for me. I like the S22 type of firmness better. It felt as if the high speed hydraulic damping circuit was set to a too slow setting. I could easily get the sprung weight of the wheel to bounce up and down by me pushing my weight on the pedals.

The exterior of the Mini looks to have a decent build quality by taking a cusory visual inspection. 

In any case, even though the Mini is priced so well, I no longer am considering the Commander Mini any longer.

I can understand why Dawn Champion is not interested in Commander Mini, and Jack ex-Kingsong as well. I am not seeing the big upgrade feeling over my V12, that is from a riding perspective. 

Edited August 7, 2023 by techyiam

[jimjam.nyc]

6 hours ago, techyiam said:

I got to ride very briefly a Commander Mini with a street tire in a parking lot setting and some cones.

I rode my V12 to the event. I rode back to back my V12 and the Commander Mini. I am not a heavy nor big person, so I can't access the torque like other people. I felt that I could accelerate easier on my V12. Although, my V12 wobbles during hard braking before, I managed to tune the wobbles out. In contrast, the Commander Mini wobbles during braking. The Mini felt heavier compared to my V12, and is not as agile as the V12. But for my type of riding, that is of no consequence. The Mini rode too firmly for me. I like the S22 type of firmness better. It felt as if the high speed hydraulic damping circuit was set to a too slow setting. I could easily get the sprung weight of the wheel to bounce up and down by me pushing my weight on the pedals.

The exterior of the Mini looks to have a decent build quality by taking a cusory visual inspection. 

In any case, even though the Mini is priced so well, I no longer am considering the Commander Mini any longer.

I can understand why Dawn Champion is not interested in Commander Mini, and Jack ex-Kingsong as well. I am not seeing the big upgrade feeling over my V12, that is from a riding perspective. 

I think you have ridden a patton also. Curious as to your thoughts on mini vs the patton.

I felt the patton to be a decent bit more stable and easier to accelerate and brake vs my v12 as well.

So just curious.

[techyiam]

19 hours ago, jimjam.nyc said:

I think you have ridden a patton also. Curious as to your thoughts on mini vs the patton.

I felt the patton to be a decent bit more stable and easier to accelerate and brake vs my v12 as well.

So just curious.

My opinion is going to be clouded a bit. The reason being that I rode my Abrams (not my V12) to the couple of events where I rode the Patton.

Firstly, I have to say, both the Patton and the Mini are easy wheels to ride, no adaptation periods are required. In contrast, I borrow someone else's V11, and I couldn't ride that wheel like I have ridden it before. But damn, the V11 felt smooth and refined. I didn't expect that.

My first time on a Patton, it had the 62 lbs spring. It felt cushier to be sure. Handling was good, and I didn't remember feeling heavy at all. But the problem is that I jump on it off an Abrams. The Patton did not have any wobbles of any kind, nor hint of any. Acceleration wise, it was OK. In comparison, the Mini was OK too. I didn't think they accelerated as easily as my V12. If memory serves me well, the Patton and Mini felt quit similar. It is hard to say how they will compare should a heavier rider was to ride them, though.

On my second time on a Patton, the Patton had a 66 lbs coil spring. It still felt cushy, but the chassis dynamics was noticeable more controlled. It felt similar to a S22 now in chassis dynamics, unlike with the 62 lbs coil spring.

Overall, the Patton felt way better than my V12 because it absorbs imperfections so well, and never feeling sketchy.

Now that I have ridden other wheels, I have to say my V12 braking isn't that great.

I feel that my V12 accelerates and brakes better than a stock V12. The reason for it is because I go through a procedure in which I go thru an undocumented calibration-like action. There is only one out of more than 20 possible choices. But one will give better acceleration, braking and no wobbles. This is done after I have already gone through setting the ride mode, pedal sensitivity, and split mode.

On both the Patton and the Mini, I did not ride above 40ish km/h.

The Mini has a solid heavy feel to it. But because of the wobbles and firm ride, it didn't feel like it was that much more enjoyable and nicer to ride than my V12, that is, on a relatively smooth parking lot surface. I did not ride off-road, nor over bumps and potholes, nor drops and stairs. But my use-case are very simple road surfaces in any case.

I do notice the Patton felt less sketchy than my V12. The V12 moves around a lot in comparison. Mind you, it's nothing as bad as my T3 though. An interesting observation is that my V12 felt stable even though it moves around a lot. I feel more confident riding my V12 over 50 km/h on non-smooth roads than on my Abrams. For some reason, going over bumps, the V12 jumps around a lot, but can still gives me confidence. My Abrams rides a lot more steady, but on non-smooth roads, I don't feel as wiling to go 50+ km/h as on my V12. This is with the V12 having a tire pressure of 30 psi, and the Abrams 20 psi.

Having said that, on perfectly smooth roads, the Abrams will blow away my V12 for high speed cruising, hands down. But my V12 still feels stable and planted.

Note that my V12 has an aftermarket scooter tire, and my Abrams has a stock tire.

Edited August 8, 2023 by techyiam

[mrelwood]

@techyiam, that was a great post/comparison! One thing though. You talk about the differences in acceleration/braking, but you didn't mention which ride modes and other settings you used for each wheel. I'm sure you've noticed on the V12 how much the different settings affect acceleration and braking. On other manufacturer's wheels also there can be a pretty big difference in just hard vs. medium mode.

1 hour ago, techyiam said:

I borrow someone else's V11, and I couldn't ride that wheel like I have ridden it before. But damn, the V11 felt smooth and refined. I didn't except that.

Here as well, the riding mode adjustments are so versatile that two V11s can feel like completely different wheels. This is why I made my latest video, to help riders understand the versatility and to get the best out of their Inmotion wheels' settings.

The ride height at different shock pressures hugely affects this as well. I once let a much lighter person try my V11, who barely got any sag from the suspension. They could barely turn with it! I lowered the shock pressure to match their weight and immediately they thought that the wheel turned and rode great.

Quickly test riding others' wheels isn't all that simple.

[techyiam]

4 hours ago, mrelwood said:

@techyiam, that was a great post/comparison! One thing though. You talk about the differences in acceleration/braking, but you didn't mention which ride modes and other settings you used for each wheel. I'm sure you've noticed on the V12 how much the different settings affect acceleration and braking. On other manufacturer's wheels also there can be a pretty big difference in just hard vs. medium mode.

On my V12, I used settings that gave me the least amount of braking wobbles. The V12 is prone to death wobbles in braking.

My settings are:

(1) Drive Mode:  Off-road

(2) Pedal Sensitivity:  100%

(3) Split Mode Enabled:  50%  and  50%

With regards to ease of acceleration and braking, the pedal mode can have an effect. On the Patton, I was not able discern a difference. I did not have much time on the Mini, so everything was left as is.

4 hours ago, mrelwood said:

Here as well, the riding mode adjustments are so versatile that two V11s can feel like completely different wheels. This is why I made my latest video, to help riders understand the versatility and to get the best out of their Inmotion wheels' settings.

The ride height at different shock pressures hugely affects this as well. I once let a much lighter person try my V11, who barely got any sag from the suspension. They could barely turn with it! I lowered the shock pressure to match their weight and immediately they thought that the wheel turned and rode great.

Quickly test riding others' wheels isn't all that simple.

When I look for a new wheel, my first and foremost preference is a wheel that is not prone to wobbles.

The other preference is for a wheel that is intuitive to ride. For me, the Patton, Commander Mini, and the S22 are such wheels.

My Abrams is not a wheel that is intuitive wheel to learn to ride. The top of the wheel is super wide. It is very top heavy, sluggish and unwieldy at first.

It took a while before I could adapt to it. It turned out to be a nice and refined wheel to ride, and the build quality is a stand out, other than the fact the battery mounting holes are not aligned, and the bottom crossmembers are under designed. This wheel also needs the Kevin's capacitor mod otherwise it would be rather sluggish for a rider of my weight, and prone to braking wobbles. But looking back, I would not buying the Abrams again if the price wasn't as low as it was, now that I have discovered the Patton, the S22, and the V13, and that it was a big and heavy wheel at a low price so I can justify in getting it to help me figure out whether a big heavy wheel would be something I would like to ride.

So yeah, first impressions are first impressions. But it does help to give some clarity as to what kind of wheel it is.

Based on first impressions, I never liked the way the OG Sherman rides. Could I learn to like to ride it. It is possible. But I would rather get the Abrams instead on highlight.

[techyiam]

7 hours ago, techyiam said:

For some reason, going over bumps, the V12 jumps around a lot, but can still gives me confidence. My Abrams rides a lot more steady, but on non-smooth roads, I don't feel as wiling to go 50+ km/h as on my V12. This is with the V12 having a tire pressure of 30 psi, and the Abrams 20 psi.

Just had a thought. I like to add another point that I think is noteworthy regarding this.

My V12 has the Inmotion branded spike pedals and pads. Whereas, on my Abrams, it has stock pedals and pads. I remember some time ago that after installing the spike pedals and pad on my V12, it felt more secure on the bumpy stuff. So this could be a factor.

[Ronin Ryder]

On 8/5/2023 at 1:29 PM, techyiam said:

Here we have an insider who doesn't give a satisfying justification as why he doesn't think much of the Commander Mini. In Electric Dreams' latest video on the Unboxing of the Begode Extreme, @Jack ex-KS said he will compare the Extreme to other wheels in its class except for the Commander Mini because he isn't all the interested it. In stark contrast, Marty Backe posted how much he liked the Commander Mini.

Timestamped.

 

Excluding a wheel from a comparison /review because of “not liking it” is a brand bias that unfortunately many riders have issues to remove themselves from…That’s the opposite of what I’m trying to do on my end.

[mrelwood]

12 minutes ago, Ronin Ryder said:

Excluding a wheel from a comparison /review because of “not liking it” is a brand bias

I do applaud your attempts to avoid brand bias. Not enough people do or are even able to do it nowadays.

But I’m not sure if dismissing a single wheel model equals brand bias. If I were in a position to review several wheel models, I wouldn’t see the point of making a review on a wheel that I don’t like either. From personal preferences for example. Unless there was something that I’d see worthy of warning people about.

 

[techyiam]

9 hours ago, Ronin Ryder said:

Excluding a wheel from a comparison /review because of “not liking it” is a brand bias that unfortunately many riders have issues to remove themselves from…That’s the opposite of what I’m trying to do on my end.

Yeah, well, Jack is an insider, and kind of semi-not-insider.

It looks like Jack rather not review the Mini than to say a lot of bad things about the Mini.

I had a very brief ride on the Commander Mini, and it rode like it doesn't have suspension. I didn't encounter any big hits since I only rode it in a parking lot. And the thing wobbles under braking. Two strikes that no influencers have mentioned yet. I noticed Sensei Vegan graciously gave a misleading reply when someone asked whether he will buy the Mini. Sensei Vegan said he will wait to see how the Extreme is like first.

Here is Casey (EUC way of life) complaining about his Commander Mini on Facebook.

Quote

Casey Bretthauer

Top contributor

+1

 

  · 5h  · 

 

Received my Commander Mini today...

Other CP mini owner chime in and those with 66lb Shermans or Patton's with preload turned way up chime in.

I'm 220lbs and the suspension is EXTREMELY stiff. There is 0 sag when I step on it, I checked the preload and it's on the lightest setting (full counter clockwise), I adjusted the rebound still no sag and can barely get it to move. If you adjust the nuts under the rebound wheels it only gets stiffer. It also only feels like it has about 1-1.5" of travel which takes my weight + going off a curb or down stairs to get it to move.

If I ride across a feild or even the boardwalk the suspension feels non existant. I get comments saying it's stiffer than the Patton but for daily use if it can't take up small bumps, grassy fields, etc. At my weight then what is the suspension for if it's not a "jumping" wheel?

If you are below 200lbs and plan to have a cushy road/light off road wheel this isn't for you. If you plan to jump it maybe.

Odd note, if you tilt the Patton or sherm S forward or back 90 degrees then back up right you can hear the oil in the shocks move around. When you move the CP Mini there is 0 noise so either it's 100% full or 100% empty

Unless something is wrong with mine not even my s22 with full compression or Sherman S with full preload is not this stiff.

Milli Begode Anita Kwan Kebye GotWay it would be fantastic if you shared the "weight" of the hydraulic system as well as detailed instructions on if both sides are rebound or one is compression like the Patton and Sherm S.

 

Edited August 8, 2023 by techyiam

[Gkindy]

To be fair, Casey seems to complain about everything.

[techyiam]

1 hour ago, Gkindy said:

To be fair, Casey seems to complain about everything.

To be fair, he provided a valid data point based on his ownership experience and observation. 

He actually owns a Commander Mini.

I was surprised too. I am willing to buy a suspension wheel because I am seeking more ride comfort, and reduce the probability of an accident due to poor road surfaces. The Commander Mini doesn't help enough for me in this regard.

In addition, I am getting tire of having to deal with braking wobbles. My T3 doesn't wobble. But the Commander Mini wobbles worse than any of my other wheels. and even at lower speeds. 

[techyiam]

Here is Casey's (EUC way of life) video on the Commander Mini showing how stiff his Commander Mini suspension is.

I like to point out that on the Commander Mini that I was on, when I hop on the pedals, the suspension went through its travel. I think the source of his Mini being stiff is different than the Mini that I was on. I weigh less than 160 lbs.

I suspect the spring in his Mini is too stiff. Whereas, for the Mini that I was on, perhaps the perceived stiffnes is due primarily to much compression damping. Not the slow speed circuit though.

 

 

Edited August 8, 2023 by techyiam

[jimjam.nyc]

Best advice I can give is buy based off how you use the wheel. Not based off anyone on youtube or Facebook droning on about their own nonsense.

Speak to a shop you trust and tell them what you are looking for.

Example for me is, I almost changed my patton suspension to higher spring rate based on BS I saw on literally every youtube video.

My shop gave me advice based on how I ride and weight. they never once pushed me in any direction. I made the right decision to stick.

If I went with thr youtubers, I would not be happy right now.

If you are leaning towards mini due to wanting stiffer suspension, etc. Call or email your shop and have a convo with them.

If all you care about is saving money, get a mini from a discount shop and enjoy it! It's prob a great wheel either way!

[techyiam]

51 minutes ago, jimjam.nyc said:

It's prob a great wheel either way!

You gave advice without seeing or riding one?

Based on what I saw, this may not be a good advice unless the owner wants grief.

The price is great to be sure. I won't be getting one. For those who want one, I would not buy one until hearing from owners reports first. If you are already an experienced Gotway or Begode owner, and you are ready to deal with potential issues, then sure.

Just wait a bit longer. Owners will be posting soon. Right now we just have Casey's testimony. His should be a first batch production wheel?

Edited August 8, 2023 by techyiam

[jimjam.nyc]

1 minute ago, techyiam said:

You gave advice without seeing or riding one?

Based on what I saw, this may not be a good advice unless the owner wants grief.

The price is great to be sure. I won't be getting one. For those who want one, I would not buy one until hearing from owners reports first. If you are already an experienced Gotway or Begode owner, and you are ready to deal with potential issues, then sure.

Just wait a bit longer. Owners soon be posting soon. Right now we just have Casey's testimony. His should be a first batch production wheel?

My advice was to speak to someone you trust, preferably where you buy your stuff.. The only other advice was if saving money is the only thing you care about.. then go that route.. I didnt give anyone advice to purchase anything sight unseen or based off my opinions on this or any other wheel.

you seem dead against this wheel.. Which is ok for you. I am not swaying anyone away or to it. Seriously people should speak to someone on the hook for them. Like a shop who will need to refund them or spend time and money warrantying their faulty wheel. (if it even is faulty)

I am yet to see a wheel release without some sort of possible issues.. Mini, patton, v12. s22.. all of them. Even the older now reliable wheels had issues on release. Its just the way it is in this hobby.

 

 

[techyiam]

Just now, jimjam.nyc said:

you seem dead against this wheel..

Only for me. This wheel will not work for me. And I explained why.

This is what you said:

54 minutes ago, jimjam.nyc said:

If all you care about is saving money, get a mini from a discount shop and enjoy it! It's prob a great wheel either way!

This is what I said:

11 minutes ago, techyiam said:

Just wait a bit longer. Owners will be posting soon. Right now we just have Casey's testimony. His should be a first batch production wheel?

 

[jimjam.nyc]

3 minutes ago, techyiam said:

Just wait a bit longer. Owners will be posting soon. Right now we just have Casey's testimony. His should be a first batch production wheel?

I dont disagree with you, but some people may want to jump in on a first batch.. Some people are happy and comfortable taking the risks

 

5 minutes ago, techyiam said:

Only for me. This wheel will not work for me. And I explained why.

Honestly I wouldn't buy this wheel, and was never thinking about it, but I know and see plenty of people happy with their commander wheels. Most of them are people happy to save money and deal with some repairs and things if needed. I am sure most of the time for normal use these wheels work just as good or as bad as any other one.

I just kind of want people to stop making decisions based off self proclaimed experts on the internet. One day its "mind body connection like no other" next day its "this wheel is ok i guess" Same person, not even a month later on the same wheel.

Same with normal owners.. I wouldnt trust anyones else's opinion on things.. Which is why I say.. First batch, last batch... doesnt matter. Speak with someone about what you are looking for if you are unsure, and be happy with your purchase! I feel like the odds of getting a wheel with an issue are the same across the board. I have owned most brand of wheels now... The reliability is all over the place across the board.

Just my 2cents.. Also probably dont listen to me either :-)

 

[techyiam]

20 minutes ago, jimjam.nyc said:

Honestly I wouldn't buy this wheel, and was never thinking about it, but I know and see plenty of people happy with their commander wheels. Most of them are people happy to save money and deal with some repairs and things if needed. I am sure most of the time for normal use these wheels work just as good or as bad as any other one.

How many Commander Mini owners have you spoken to? 

The only owners I know about who has bought a production unit is Casey so far.

[jimjam.nyc]

6 minutes ago, techyiam said:

How many Commander Mini owners have you spoken to? 

The only owners I know about who has bought a production unit is Casey so far.

I said Commander wheels. Meaning commanders as a whole. There are plenty of happy customers of commanders. Mini will most likely be no different.

Look i am not trying to engage in a back and forth with anyone here.

I think screen capping one guys  experience (who has a history of being vocal) saying it's hot trash, is no different than watching Marty and crew ride up a mountain and say this wheel is awesome. After he drills holes in it, bypasses charge boards, and screws plywood on the side to stick pads on. I just think it's all the same and people should choose for themselves and be happy.

 

[techyiam]

7 minutes ago, jimjam.nyc said:

Mini will most likely be no different.

That is a big assumption you are making for others.

7 minutes ago, jimjam.nyc said:

I think screen capping one guys  experience (who has a history of being vocal) saying it's hot trash, is no different than watching Marty and crew ride up a mountain and say this wheel is awesome. After he drills holes in it, bypasses charge boards, and screws plywood on the side to stick pads on. I just think it's all the same and people should choose for themselves and be happy.

Casey's is merely one data point. It doesn't matter if his is an outlier or not. Others will follow. And together that is what counts.

I just saw a Commander Mini unboxing on Youtube from someone who got it from ewheels.

People who have bought their Commander Mini's are starting to receive their Mini's. It won't be long.

Edited August 8, 2023 by techyiam

[Mitch G]

I also bought a batch 1 commander mini and I love it coming from a master/sherman/s18/16x/14d. I can now drop off curbs without bottoming out. Yes the suspension is stiffer than the master but I prefer the stiffer suspension on the mini vs the master. I daily ride my wheels to work on road and off road EVERY DAY. Sure the mini isn't as plush as the master off road but I can blast through the trail faster on my mini than I could on the master even if it does feel just a slight bit less smooth.

The youtuber complaining about torque on the mini probably didn't update the firmware on his wheel because my mini has more torque than my master did for sure. 

My Commander mini has a knobby tire and doesnt wobble any more or less than my master did. So Im confident in saying the wobbles are a street tire/ rider error. 

For me, the mini is a perfect daily driver. Every wheel has pro's and con's. I don't want a veteran wheel ever again until they release a firmware that doesnt dip the pedals when you turn. I wouldn't buy the s22 because of the terrible slider design that requires constant maintenance. I also think the mini has the most durable chassis which is important for me as its my main form of transportation. 

But if standing still on your wheel and bouncing on it is your thing... or locking your knees out while riding off road is your thing.... then the C mini probably isnt the best wheel for you.

[Ronin Ryder]

5 hours ago, jimjam.nyc said:

Best advice I can give is buy based off how you use the wheel. Not based off anyone on youtube or Facebook droning on about their own nonsense.

Speak to a shop you trust and tell them what you are looking for.

Example for me is, I almost changed my patton suspension to higher spring rate based on BS I saw on literally every youtube video.

My shop gave me advice based on how I ride and weight. they never once pushed me in any direction. I made the right decision to stick.

If I went with thr youtubers, I would not be happy right now.

If you are leaning towards mini due to wanting stiffer suspension, etc. Call or email your shop and have a convo with them.

If all you care about is saving money, get a mini from a discount shop and enjoy it! It's prob a great wheel either way!

It seems to be the trend to *** on youtubers, as I regularly see that narrative here and there online. No one forces anyone to watch these reviews. If i were to get a Patton id get 66lbs. I bottomed it out easily.  Glad you didn’t. I do buy 70% of the wheels i review as well (used to be 100%). So there are reviewers that do give advices based on their purchase too. This is not an exclusivity to anonymous posters on this forum. But the side effect of purchase based reviews is that some tend to be biased too due to purchase decision comforting matters. So buy based reviews aren’t excluded from issues too.

I did buy a Commander mini since a Month+. Daily active rides, fine tuning the suspension settings, not testing briefly someone else’s wheel for 10-20min or hearing rumors. The suspension works fine.

Edited August 8, 2023 by Ronin Ryder

[jimjam.nyc]

11 minutes ago, Ronin Ryder said:

It seems to be the trend to *** on youtubers, as I regularly see that narrative here and there online.

I wasn't meaning to say anything bad about youtubers at all. I probably should not have used the word BS. But I honestly just meant it as the opinions of the majority of youtube reviews on Patton were telling everyone to get higher spring rate, instead of swaying people to really figure out what they actually need.

I really watch love all of the content people create, and find nothing wrong with sponsored content. I just want to urge people to follow up after reading or watching opinions.

I do watch all of your reviews, I find them to be some of the more consistent out there. (Not just because we are both in NYC). I just never really make a purchasing decision based off of reviews alone unless there is an overwhelmingly negative narrative as a whole.