OldSolo Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 On 1/2/2024 at 7:15 AM, techyiam said: Wow, that's amazing progress. Regarding wobbles, are you having wobbles during braking? The Mini is more prone to braking wobbles, I found. Having said that, for new riders, wobbles can also be cause by the rider himself, and which will go away with time. And there are number things a rider can due to reduce wobbles. Your negative experience (reported ... again, and again ...) is certainly at odds from virtually EVERY video review I have seen. There is no question that a 12" RIM wheel (I am hoping that SOME DAY people will drop the confusing nomenclature - it makes ZERO sense that 12" rim wheels are called "16 inch" and 14" rim wheels are called "20 inch") will exhibit less stability than a 14" RIM wheel. But besides the price, multiple reviewers specifically point out the lower CG of the Mini (compared to the Patton) increases stability. I was leaning towards a larger wheel given my experience racing cross-country MTBs. When the 29er bikes came along, I was ascouotonished at the difference on rougher trails, compared to 26" bikes. It still seems that would be good for offroad EUCs, but it seems that the smaller, more nimble wheels are preferred. I do know that my A2 gets jarred off lne easily, but the lack of suspension is the main reason. My Mini is due to arriive in a few days, although with the cold weather we are seeing here (high did not reach 50F today, 40s are colder than my aged body wants to ride!) it will likely be a bit of time before I get any significant riding. That will give me time to do some disassembly, as I am quite curious to have a look at the suspension internals, and get some measurements of the springs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldSolo Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 I hope this does not offend, but I will repost what I posted elsewhere ('what wheel should i buy'): Last night my doorbell rang ... shocked to see UPS out there. Delivery a DAY EARLY?!?! Who would have guessed! I pulled it out, took out of transport mode, and put a charger on it. It showed 5 bars but did charge for 3-4 hrs, so everything is definitely balanced at this point. I will be doing some disassembly today & will report back with my findings about the suspension. Given that I am still a RANK beginner, I am not even feeling any urgency about riding this quite yet. Want to get better on the A2 & learn to free mount. Raining today, and it has been cold enough to keep me from riding. It is a good time for swapping tires, checking bolts, examining & measuring suspension, etc. Would be nice to have a spring rate tester ... need to think about how to do it, probably poke around online. Then we can have AN ANSWER to the actual spring rate on the Mini, and then see what is available to swap out. I am considering getting two shorter springs of different rates to build in some progression. A true progressive wound spring would be awesome but obviously isn't going to be available 'off the shelf' assuming I can even FIND a proper size. There are companies who will custom wind springs - if it gets to that point, I will explore costs & then begin a new thread. Perhaps someone will be bold & take a Patton apart & get some measurements. Again, it is ABSURD to tell people to buy a complete replacement unit to change spring rates! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techyiam Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 4 minutes ago, OldSolo said: I will be doing some disassembly today & will report back with my findings about the suspension. Given that I am still a RANK beginner, I am not even feeling any urgency about riding this quite yet. Just a friendly precautionary idea to consider. Sometimes, it is better to ride it first to establish a baseline before you start working on your new wheel, so that should something goes wrong after you have worked on it, it would be more obvious whether the fault lies in your court or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldSolo Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 (edited) Understood, and I appreciate the thought. The only actual change I will make initially is swapping the tire to SR241. The rest is more informational. Nothing about these is particularly new to me OTHER than the control board, which I would not touch other than to add a little silicon (per the teardown done by Albert 2C1P). The difference between knobby & street tire isn't something I need to experience immediately. In fact my sense is that the knobby will be a little less precise & more forgiving => good for me. Now IF I get into the shock & find myself in some strange new world, OR there seems to be some bizarre assembly process, I won't keep screwing around! But assuming it is just standard fork design tech (most likely a primitive damping circuit w/ bypass controlled by the top nut) it is no biggie. Oh, that said, I would note this observation: the damping clicker has a marvelous feel to it. It has more sense of "solidness" to it ... that isn't really the right word, but it feels substantial. It has some resistance turning between clicks, then it 'snicks' into the next step in a solid, well controlled sense. Doesn't feel cheap (as I expected) at all. The action itself has been very favorably described by those who didn't have issues with the spring rate. So whomever built these 'forks' apparently did know what they were doing. I guess all of the shouting about "testing with 55kg Chinese men not valid for FAT Americans" prompted the overly stiff springs. That's why I think this should be easily remedied. I actually have the forks torn down on my Husky TE449, changing the shim stacks & going with softer springs. Nothing new under the sun ... ... except self-balancing wheels! I would not TOUCH that or screw around with battery packs! While I applaud the guys (Roger!) who have "hopped up" their wheels for racing, that is the FARTHEST thing from my mind! Edited January 9 by OldSolo typo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techyiam Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 23 minutes ago, OldSolo said: I will make initially is swapping the tire to SR241. Nice. Many have spoken highly of the Shinko SR241. Perhaps the Shinko SR241 will improve the Mini's chassis dynamics. 29 minutes ago, OldSolo said: I would note this observation: the damping clicker has a marvelous feel to it. It has more sense of "solidness" to it ... that isn't really the right word, but it feels substantial. It has some resistance turning between clicks, then it 'snicks' into the next step in a solid, well controlled sense. Doesn't feel cheap (as I expected) at all. That's nice. I am really surprised by this. I thought the hydraulic struct used in the Mini is on the cheap side, hence I wouldn't have expected the damping adjusters to have a quality feel to it. Incidentally, the damping adjusters on the S22 has the typical low quality cheap shock feel, not the solid, positive clicking into the each indent feel. 33 minutes ago, OldSolo said: The action itself has been very favorably described by those who didn't have issues with the spring rate. So whomever built these 'forks' apparently did know what they were doing. I guess all of the shouting about "testing with 55kg Chinese men not valid for FAT Americans" prompted the overly stiff springs. That's why I think this should be easily remedied. I actually have the forks torn down on my Husky TE449, changing the shim stacks & going with softer springs. I see. By your assessment, the Mini's hydraulic structs aren't necessarily that bad, so there is something worthwhile for you to work with. And with a little bit of elbow grease and a properly sized coil spring, given your technical background, the suspension on the Mini should be good. I look forward to hearing about Mini after it has been transformed into a bad ass wheel after you're done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldSolo Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 1 hour ago, techyiam said: Nice. Many have spoken highly of the Shinko SR241. Perhaps the Shinko SR241 will improve the Mini's chassis dynamics. That's nice. I am really surprised by this. I thought the hydraulic struct used in the Mini is on the cheap side, hence I wouldn't have expected the damping adjusters to have a quality feel to it. Incidentally, the damping adjusters on the S22 has the typical low quality cheap shock feel, not the solid, positive clicking into the each indent feel. I see. By your assessment, the Mini's hydraulic structs aren't necessarily that bad, so there is something worthwhile for you to work with. And with a little bit of elbow grease and a properly sized coil spring, given your technical background, the suspension on the Mini should be good. I look forward to hearing about Mini after it has been transformed into a bad ass wheel after you're done. Not transforming, no badass wheel (other than that as already described by multiple reviewers! I truly do not understand why you have such issues with this wheel. I get it, you didn't like your test ride. But unless almost every single review I have seen on youtube, as well as the comments made by Roger & Dawn when riding Marty's Mini, thought very highly of the wheel OTHER than the springs being too stiff for people (under 200#?). The dynamics have generally been praised, and the damping seems superb. And I do not mean to be confrontational - internet posting is always fraught with that risk! But I am not doing any big time 'transforming' of the wheel, simply seeking to assess the practicality of changing to a lower spring rate - that applies to this wheel, as well as the OTHER Commanders using this same suspension, and the Veterans as well (different 'fork' unit, but comparable basic structure). As I repeatedly have stated, these companies know ZIP ZERO NADA about suspension design. Veteran subcontracted to someone who builds 'serviceable' suspension (no one would describe Fastace as anywhere near 'state of the art' in the two-wheeled world), and it APPEARS that Begode did find someone to make a reasonable facsimile. The linkage systems have all been rather pitiful in various ways, so they SELL a wheel & then IMMEDIATELY have to send out new stuff. Or in the case of the Master, just sell new versions with functioning suspension. A spring change, and possible a change of fluid, is a little bit of NOTHING for MX suspension forks (or road bikes, for that matter; I did send my Yamaha forks off for revalving & respringing). It should not be complicated, nor involving much more than unscrewing the end after removing the shock from the wheel (needed for tire change!). Now, on another matter, I want to COMPLIMENT you. Having just posted elsewhere about how I seriously doubt a 70mph wheel due to the cubic relationship of aerodynamic drag to velocity, I saw your comment w/ partial differential equations on a thread specifically about that relationship. It warmed my heart, taking me back to the mid-70s as an engineering undergrad at a little place we affectionately called the North Avenue Trade School. Perhaps the most unspeakable expression or phrase uttered with the most hatred could be spelled out: Diff-E-Q Back in the days before PCs, when computer center time (for a non-compsci guy like me) involved punching CARDS for inputting your program into the mainframe, that simple expression "diffyQ" brought fear & loathing into many engineering undergrads!. Your post brought back memories of my youth ... and a simple timeframe calculation should readily show WHY I do NOT need a 'bad ass wheel'! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombie31 Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 (edited) Honestly I've gotten to not hate the suspension, if you are a new rider like me, you said you are still working on free mounting, the suspension will make you a much better rider than having a pillow under your feet and the wheel as a whole is a ton of fun. Im coming up on 2 weeks of owning this wheel and I am doing fast mtb singletrack and some decent size jumps, and 35mph on the street, it constantly surprises me with what it's capable of and it seems like it can do anything, especially with the fact it's on the street tire it's crazy how well it does off road, you just need to learn it, the wheel does a great job at absorbing the big impacts and drops and it will help with the high frequency impacts while teaching you how to use your knees and weight to your advantage. I really wouldn't change anything until you know exactly what you want to change. My issue is the suspension tops out quite aggressively and leads to this metal clank/thud going over sharp impacts, no amount of preload reduction can fix this for me but I would see if you run into that same issue Edited January 9 by Zombie31 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techyiam Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 15 minutes ago, Zombie31 said: My issue is the suspension tops out quite aggressively and leads to this metal clank/thud going over sharp impacts, no amount of preload reduction can fix this for me but I would see if you run into that same issue If there is a compression damping adjuster, you can increase compression damping to reduce bottoming out severity. The ride would be stiffer though. You progressed mighty fast. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombie31 Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 19 minutes ago, techyiam said: If there is a compression damping adjuster, you can increase compression damping to reduce bottoming out severity. The ride would be stiffer though. You progressed mighty fast. Thank you! I meant topping out as when the suspension extends fully and cannot mechanically extend any more. There should be something in there like a top out spring to keep the fork from banging into the damping rod but that seems to be missing in the command mini so when it tops out (usually in the air after hitting a sharp impact that compressed the suspension) it puts the suspension under great stress maybe it was designed around those forces (I hope so) but it seems quite violent and very loud, it is usually solvable by reducing preload but it even at the softest preload setting the Commander Mini offers its not enough Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techyiam Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 2 hours ago, OldSolo said: And I do not mean to be confrontational - internet posting is always fraught with that risk! But I am not doing any big time 'transforming' of the wheel, simply seeking to assess the practicality of changing to a lower spring rate - that applies to this wheel, as well as the OTHER Commanders using this same suspension, and the Veterans as well (different 'fork' unit, but comparable basic structure). Oops. My tone was meant to be serious, not sarcastic. By transforming, I am using in the same context as S22 owners have done with their S22's. I am hoping that kind of transformation for your Mini. Sometimes, a tire change, and/or suspension mod, tire pressure, and maybe firmware update can transform a wheel. That's what have happened with the S22. Since you are putting on a good tire, and and add to it your expertise in suspension, perhaps you can also transform the Mini. If you are successful, the Mini may become an incredible buy. 2 hours ago, OldSolo said: involved punching CARDS I did that. But rather superficially. I think I did one simple program. It was I think one week turn around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techyiam Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 (edited) 32 minutes ago, Zombie31 said: I meant topping out as when the suspension extends fully and cannot mechanically extend any more. My bad. I read it wrong. Firstly, you need to make sure your sag is in the right ball park. But since you already have no preload set, you are out of options with the coil spring setting. Then if there is a rebound damping adjuster, you can increase rebound damping. Also, isn't there a stopper at the top of the stanchions too.l? Edited January 9 by techyiam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldSolo Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 (edited) Yes, increase your rebound damping to help with top-out. When I have time to examine and think about this, I'll see if there might be something else to soften this. I will cut/paste what I posted in the comparison thread: Pulled down my new mini last night, was just placing an order from the evil empire for stainless allen head screws to replace the phillips screws on reassembly. A couple of observations: 1) it has a tubeless street tire, WITH A TUBE. Weird 2) the shock mount is really well conceived, the slider system is simple yet relatively foolproof. Although there is some potential for mud, a stainless rod sliding through oiled brass bushings should be very durable. This is a VAST improvement over the silly little wheels on the regular size Commander 3) the spring is too stiff, as I weighed 169 as I stepped on the Mini, there was a small amount of sag, perhaps 1/4-1/2" (rather tricky to measure by oneself!); a somewhat lower rate would probably be better, although given the relatively short travel of these suspensions, I think it would be great for big hits. If I get time later today, I will attempt to dismantle the shock & measure the spring, examine the damping mechanism, etc. - - - When I was removing the bolts that lock the fitting to the motor (M6 x 55mm stainless flathead) I noticed the tendency for the allen key to have a little play. There is a thread somewhere around here where someone stripped the heads out of the bolts. They are in VERY tight, and to remove them I used a 1/4" electric impact driver PUSHING DOWN HARD to keep it seated. Everything came out fine, but I would advise caution. I was looking around for a solution, HERE are potential replacements using a Torx head which is far more difficult to strip. Same concept as replacing the myriad Phillips head M3 & M4 bolts with allen heads. I am TRULY impressed with much of this wheel. As I have said, the teardown down by 2Cells1Pack encouraged me to really consider this wheel. It is quite long, but for the basic disassembly for a tire change, THIS VIDEO covers everything. He did put a little bit of grease on the sliders on reassembly, I would not do that as these oil-impregnated bronze bushings are self-lubricating. Grease will just tend to hold abrasive particles. I was considering a little dry moly, but a little online research suggested that was not needed & might be negative. I will give a little thought to how to improve mud/crud resistance up under there (different fend design, plastic sheeting, etc) but it really doesn't seem to be a big deal. Even water resistance looks to only need the battery cable entry to be well sealed. Oh yeah, one OTHER observation. Albert does the old "hold down the power switch" to discharge the capacitors after batteries are disconnected. Just for giggles I did that, but checked voltage. There was still >30v there, quite persistent. Holding down the power switch saw it drop .1v at a time. So be advised! Edited January 10 by OldSolo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldSolo Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 18 hours ago, Zombie31 said: Honestly I've gotten to not hate the suspension, if you are a new rider like me, you said you are still working on free mounting, the suspension will make you a much better rider than having a pillow under your feet and the wheel as a whole is a ton of fun. Im coming up on 2 weeks of owning this wheel and I am doing fast mtb singletrack and some decent size jumps, and 35mph on the street, it constantly surprises me with what it's capable of and it seems like it can do anything, especially with the fact it's on the street tire it's crazy how well it does off road, you just need to learn it, the wheel does a great job at absorbing the big impacts and drops and it will help with the high frequency impacts while teaching you how to use your knees and weight to your advantage. I really wouldn't change anything until you know exactly what you want to change. My issue is the suspension tops out quite aggressively and leads to this metal clank/thud going over sharp impacts, no amount of preload reduction can fix this for me but I would see if you run into that same issue Interesting comments on the street tire. For some reason as I posted above, it is tubeless BUT there is a tube inside! Putting a valve stem in the wheel & running tubeless will allow lower pressures, further enhancing off-road ability. My A2 came with a tubeless knobby (and no tube) and I switched to a tubeless Pirelli Angel street tire. It holds air just fine ... And one other benefit: running tubeless makes it ultra-simple to use balancing beads. They make a HUGE difference in ANY wheel: car, truck, motorcycle, or unicycle. Constant dynamic balancing is a worthwhile addition. They can be added through a valve stem (core removed, it is a slow & annoying process, and it requires only the smaller size). The only downside is that you cannot use a sealant in the tire. In most applications I have found the tradeoff to be well worth it. Perhaps if I have issues of flats on this wheel it will be different. I suppose if there are thorns & such in offroad use, sealant is more important. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighEndScooters Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 Anybody know what version of the commander mini they are on and what are the improvements to the latest version? This wheel kind of came and went but I hear the firmware on it is awesome Thanks in advance for any responses Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frolic0415 Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 On 1/13/2024 at 2:25 PM, HighEndScooters said: Anybody know what version of the commander mini they are on and what are the improvements to the latest version? This wheel kind of came and went but I hear the firmware on it is awesome Thanks in advance for any responses https://www.ewheels.com/product/eb-commander-mini-2400wh-battery-3200w-motor-suspension/ "NEW: Upgraded Samsung 50S battery packs, in the gold or red CNC trim parts & choice of the street/knobby tire" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombie31 Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 Is this normal for a wheel to do? It seems like the motor has gotten a little loose and its scraping on the side of the housing, you can see a line on both sides where it wore through the anodization into the metal, The tire is also either touching or a hairs width away from touching on one side and I can press it into the side of the housing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frolic0415 Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 This wheel doesn't have bluetooth speakers correct? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punxatawneyjoe Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 On 1/22/2024 at 2:36 PM, Zombie31 said: Is this normal for a wheel to do? Normal, no. It looks like the motor wasn't properly shimmed. i would ask your retailer for a new motor. To shim it correctly it will have to come apart, meaning the motor covers. At least that's what it looks like. I would lay the wheel in its side and see if it has end play by grabbing the wheel on both sides and wiggling it up and down to see if there is play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RetroThruster Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 On 2/18/2024 at 7:56 PM, Frolic0415 said: This wheel doesn't have bluetooth speakers correct? Mine does, not sure if all of them do or not but I'd assume they all do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frolic0415 Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 9 hours ago, RetroThruster said: Mine does, not sure if all of them do or not but I'd assume they all do. Weird, I rode a friend's one and it didn't have speakers according to him so I was confused after reading the spec sheet. I guess different batches do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Hillary Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 (edited) @Zombie31 Mine did something like this, but it was one of the battery housing screws coming loose and grinding into the motor cover. I had to remove the battery and tighten down all the screws, then put some silicone over top of them so they didn't re-loosen. Why the hell would they put screws facing the MOTOR on the BACK of the battery housing? Edited February 22 by Dan Hillary 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldSolo Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 On 2/22/2024 at 2:29 AM, Dan Hillary said: @Zombie31 Mine did something like this, but it was one of the battery housing screws coming loose and grinding into the motor cover. I had to remove the battery and tighten down all the screws, then put some silicone over top of them so they didn't re-loosen. Why the hell would they put screws facing the MOTOR on the BACK of the battery housing? This is how the battery case is assembled! Screws on both sides, it is VERY well put together but they sure don't know how to use thread locker. I will be posting a video of the battery box teardown & how everything is packaged, then resealing with BETTER silicone. Sorry this happened to you, it must have been at it for awhile I would think. This is why I have owned my Mini for a couple of months, but have not ridden it. I am systematically taking everything apart for inspection, documenting it, and then will reassemble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldSolo Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 So my first suspension teardown is posted. I will likely add a new thread in this forum as much of the information should be applicable to all of the Commander variants. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Hillary Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 17 hours ago, OldSolo said: This is how the battery case is assembled! Screws on both sides, it is VERY well put together but they sure don't know how to use thread locker. I will be posting a video of the battery box teardown & how everything is packaged, then resealing with BETTER silicone. Sorry this happened to you, it must have been at it for awhile I would think. This is why I have owned my Mini for a couple of months, but have not ridden it. I am systematically taking everything apart for inspection, documenting it, and then will reassemble. Mine was within the first 30 miles. When I disassembled for my street tire change I was able to hand tighten about half the screws in the back of my batteries 😬 I had too much confidence in ewheels' independent QC checks, it seems. I also added silicone over the tops of the screws 👍 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frolic0415 Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 I just ordered the 50s version, very keen for it to arrive. Will be my first suspension wheel 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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