Veteran Patton 16" 126v 2220wh

[Mrd777]

Confirmed, as I just received my Patton that the idle sound is loud and annoying.
I’ve never owned a loud wheel at idle before.

[Critzlez]

for anyone curious, at lowest preload and softest compression damping on the 58lbs shock as a 120lb person, I get 28mm of sag, 35% of total travel. This is perfect for me for a very cushy ride but I hope this helps someone else with what suspension to choose.

Edit: highest preload and softest compression damping gives a sag of 15mm, 18% of total travel. I also remeasured the minimum preload to be more accurate

Again, i don’t bottom out dropping curbs even at softest compression damping. even when jumping my body (not lifting the euc in the air while jumping) up and down as high as I can on top of the euc, I can't bottom out. It doesn't bottom out when going down stairs either. I haven't tried going up stairs or curbs yet, but I doubt it will bottom out if I just set the preload to be stiffer.

And like I said, other people jumping curbs that are heavier like 180lbs didn't bottom out when they rode it when I asked. But not sure exactly if they went up curbs but some went down curbs.

 

Edited July 1, 2023 by Critzlez
Redid measurements and added more info

[Critzlez]

On 6/24/2023 at 3:35 PM, Todd Fahrner said:

Just unboxed mine (62lb knobby). Exciting! Here's worthless first impressions, coming from V11: 

• It's heavy and chunky, feels very solid. I knew to expect this, but the visceral reality hits. Just because it's nominally a 16" doesn't mean it's not a tank. I guess that's Veteran trademark/signature. Stairs are... wow. Knobby not bitey enough not to spin out on the treads if you try to walk it up: backwards by trolley handle comes close.
• The beeps for all button presses are absurdly loud, with no ready remedy apparent. eWheels (maybe?) included what looks like a replacement buzzer/beeper along with fuses. Not sure if the extra buzzer is same or different from OEM. Yes I want loud warning beeps but is there no "inside voice" for simple display toggles?
• Pads are shipping separately from eWheels. Without pads, my inner shins hurt from riding it carefully thrice around the block, hard metal corners. Definitely needs padding; shin contact point is higher than V11, so not used to any pressure there! Partly this was me adapting to the super wide body with unfamiliar ride feel and really not wanting to drop it with no pads. Flashbacks to learning on my first wheel. I know it will get better once I can relax. Can't say I was able to sense the extra performance; braking felt especially feeble and a bit wobbly. It was smooth enough, and definitely very nimble, unnervingly so for now. Knobby not too loud as I'd feared. I know I need to give it time, re-learn stuff. Definitely not a hop-on and jet experience for me, but something aspirational, a new challenge. 
• The user interface for the settings is um horrible. Like to turn on the light, you press the light button, right? No, that just beeps (AAUGH!) with nothing happening. Checked the QC sheet to see if light function tested: said yes. Huh. I don't know how I discovered it, but turns out you hold the light button and the "next" button 3 inches to the left at same time and it toggles on/off. It ships preset to tilt back and beep at ridiculous low speeds (like ~12mph), so I was forced to learn to change settings before riding. The printed manual is um also horrible: tried maybe 15min to make heads or tails of it. Thank you 2cells1pack: watched this Youtube several times, pausing and scrolling back often as necessary. I muddled through: https://youtu.be/9yFZB6cOkBQ  
  I'm still on board, know I can grow into liking this. But at this moment am appreciating the much more humane V11 interfaces, accessibility, lightness. Where's my spin kill button integrated into the handle? There isn't one: you have to turn the whole thing off, then back on again, with the beeps making anybody within 50 yards flinch. Twice.
• It does look cool, in a brutalist way. I guess the loud-ass beeps and opaque UI somehow match. This thing comes from a metal planet inhabited by metal beings.

This is weird. My patton turns on by just simply pressing the light button

Edited June 29, 2023 by Critzlez

[wstuart]

On 6/26/2023 at 8:29 PM, Rollin-on-1 said:

Initial ride - first impressions:

Sunday was a beautiful day here and my Patton was supposed to arrive between 9:40am and 1:40pm - and 2 days early no less. Unfortunately, that didn't pan out.  The weather forcast for today and tomorrow call for sever thunderstorms.  Needless to say, I was a bit grumpy with F'edEx.

This morning, my Patton arrived while I was at work. Sever thunderstorms were supposed to start at 7pm. It was almost 8pm by the time we got the kids in bed.  I opened up the box and pulled everything out.  After unplugging the headlight to silence the beeper, I put it on the charger to get it out of transport mode and then ran through the settings.  A quick look out the window told me I may have a chance to rip up and down my neighborhood street a couple of times before the deluge begins.  

Stepping on for the first time, I found the sag to be pretty close to ideal.  For reference, my ride weight tonight was ~180 - 181lbs.  I set the foot blocks where I thought I wanted them and pushed off.  I didn't bother to check anything else, like tire pressure or suspension settings.  I had a limited window of opportunity, so I took it.  It took me a few hundred yards to feel like I had my feet positioned where I wanted them.   But, I quickly felt comfortable on the Patton.  Out of the box, I wanted the compression to be a couple clicks firmer and the rebound a couple of clicks slower, but it was kind of fun being a little bouncy.

I ride with a staggered, duck stance.  By that, I mean the one foot is about an inch foward of the other and my toes are out a bit and my heels make contact with the wheel.  With this stance, I found myself wanting the toe block to be about an inch wider, but I also didn't have issues with pressure on my inner calves.

Acceleration was good, but without pads, I didn't find it quite as zippy as my 16x.  This may change once I get pads on and I feel a little more connected with the wheel.  Agility is nice, but it doesn't have the flickability that I love in my 16x. Again, this may improve as I get more time on the wheel and get pads set up like I want them, but I think the extra weight adds stability at the expense of flicability.  It think stiffer suspension may help with the flickability too.

I found the H626 to ride well and it was very controllable.  The Patton wanted to fall into turns more than I expected with the H626.  The H666 that I have on my 16x has a strong gyro effect and I expected similar or stronger with the H626.  I'm not sure if it is the higher center of gravity with the Patton, a different ride feel of the H626, or a bit of both, but I missed the gyro effect a little.  I guess time will tell if I really like it or want to swap it for something else.  I think it's a keeper though. 

If this sounds like a lot of observations for such a short ride before a storm, that is because the EUC gods felt pity on me and parted the storm.  I was able to get in a 10 mile ride with a nice balance of 25 mph neighborhood streets, a couple of parking lot faux race courses, some slow tight turns, and a short section of rooted up paved trail.  The Patton really shined on the rooted up trail. On my 16x, that trail beats the crap out of me and the wheel.  On the Patton, I was cruising down it at 25mph like it was nothing.

Curb drops...what curb?  I did a couple and they were SMOOOV!  Bonks...what bonk?  It just levitated up.  I even did a little seated riding tonight which went better than expected.  The landing zone is a bit narrow, but it wasn't uncomfortable.  Granted it was only for a short while.

After about 6 miles or so, I felt very acclimated to the Patton.  I found myself naturally easing off at 30 - 31 mph anticipating the tiltback I'm accustomed toon my 16x  Once I let go and just enjoyed the ride, I was pretty consistenly riding at ~35 mph without trying to push it. 

I'm going to ride it for a while longer with the stock suspension settings, but then I'll probably make some tweaks.  I did set the pedal angle adjustment to -2 at around the 5 mile mark. This is what I have my 16x set to and it immediately felt better when I set the Patton to -2 as well.

Of all the wheels that I have tested over the past few years, this is the first wheel that has felt right for me and worthy of replacing my trusty 16x.  The S22 was close...too bad KS fumbled that one for so long.

Anyway, thanks for reading this far.  Hopefully it was informative.  I'm looking forward to clocking more miles!

Is there anything you would like for me to check and report back on?  Let me know!

 

 

I have a wondering about flickability:

I wonder if higher voltage wheels loose capability/speed/response/flickability below 10mph.  I wonder if the controllers must "hold back" in high torque low speed scenarios to prevent burning up the board.

This is based on a little bit of hersey:

Last week I took a 100v EX to an escate/euc track racing event.  The most common and fastest euc there were the masters.  I let the most skilled rider in San Diego do a lap on my EX and his immediate response was that he really liked it and that he "missed the immediate torque of 100v wheels".  He explained that higher voltage wheels feliberatly and necessarily limit power off the line to keep from frying their boards and that this changes the low end feel.  Ive never owned a wheel with more than 100v so I cant say.  I wonder if the trend continues the other direction - meaning that even lower voltage wheels (84v 16x) can deliver more power sub 10mph that 100v or 126v wheels????

I do own a 16x an msp HT and a sherman S, and I will say that the 100v wheels cant come close to the flickability of the 84v 16x sub 15mph.  I absolutely love zipping around bikes on my 16x and it changes speed with and immediacy that I dont think any other wheels can match.  

[mrelwood]

40 minutes ago, wstuart said:

He explained that higher voltage wheels feliberatly and necessarily limit power off the line to keep from frying their boards and that this changes the low end feel.

That is incorrect. How a BLDC motor works is that the controller limits the output power and voltage in every situation except at 100% PWM. While riding this is the speed where you overlean the wheel. So all EUCs limit the output voltage at low speeds.

 If the high voltage wheels would limit the power any more than is necessary for staying upright, the wheel would dip forward during accelerations. I’m pretty certain that’s not what happens with 134V wheels.

 What does affect 84V vs 134V behavior is the firmware. 84V wheels were common several years ago, when the riding modes weren’t as hard and responsive as they are now. Take the 100V ShermS. I’m pretty sure that he wouldn’t think of it as a significantly “more immediate” response than on the Master for example. While being a 100V wheel just like the SherMax, the ShermS has a programming that follows the modern trend and the hard mode is much harder.

 The firmware on the V11 has gotten several upgrades during it’s 3 year lifetime, and it too has gotten more range at the hardest pedal stiffness area of the adjustment.

[Rollin-on-1]

1 hour ago, wstuart said:

I have a wondering about flickability:

I wonder if higher voltage wheels loose capability/speed/response/flickability below 10mph.  I wonder if the controllers must "hold back" in high torque low speed scenarios to prevent burning up the board.

This is based on a little bit of hersey:

Last week I took a 100v EX to an escate/euc track racing event.  The most common and fastest euc there were the masters.  I let the most skilled rider in San Diego do a lap on my EX and his immediate response was that he really liked it and that he "missed the immediate torque of 100v wheels".  He explained that higher voltage wheels feliberatly and necessarily limit power off the line to keep from frying their boards and that this changes the low end feel.  Ive never owned a wheel with more than 100v so I cant say.  I wonder if the trend continues the other direction - meaning that even lower voltage wheels (84v 16x) can deliver more power sub 10mph that 100v or 126v wheels????

I do own a 16x an msp HT and a sherman S, and I will say that the 100v wheels cant come close to the flickability of the 84v 16x sub 15mph.  I absolutely love zipping around bikes on my 16x and it changes speed with and immediacy that I dont think any other wheels can match.  

I think the flickability has more to do with the weight of the wheels.  The Patton has 50% more voltage and watt hours, and even more than 50% more weight.  

Plus the 16x is just an amazing machine!  

[Rollin-on-1]

PSA for Patton owners that got the Patton pads with the pre-cut holes for the case screws:

If you stick the velcro on the case it will overlap with the top panel.  I recommend trimming 1/4" off the top before you stick the velco on.  This will keep your velcro intact for future wheel maintenence.  

[Rollin-on-1]

Installed on the wheel.

[CrabChampion]

Patton battery blew out the bottom of the frame. Was jumped a bunch at the public demo. Combined with the leaky shock, broken axle bolt and now this, i'm not sure where the leaperkim quality is. Just seems like any other wheel to me

 

Edited June 30, 2023 by Cobaltsaber

[Rawnei]

3 hours ago, Cobaltsaber said:

Patton battery blew out the bottom of the frame. Was jumped a bunch at the public demo. Combined with the leaky shock, broken axle bolt and now this, i'm not sure where the leaperkim quality is. Just seems like any other wheel to me

 

Wow, wth! Looks like it's held there by a thin piece of plastic that cracked over time.

Here is a photo from ecodrift teardown, perhaps this area needs to be reinforced?

Edited June 30, 2023 by Rawnei

[Rawnei]

Until/If LeaperKim comes up with stronger replacement part I will probably put epoxy over that area.

[Freeforester]

20 hours ago, unicycle bunny said:

i can't figure out how to apply these stickers supplied by ewheel - did anyone go thru it? show me your photos! 

I’m sorry to advise you,  you’ve failed your Patton Club Owners practical test and are therefore presently classed as being non-PC, you can either resit the test by sending $10 to me or return the wheel to Patton Owners (returns department), PO Box 100.8v, Freeforester House, Grampian, Scotland.
 

A shipping label will be provided… 

[Freeforester]

36 minutes ago, Rawnei said:

Until/If LeaperKim comes up with stronger replacement part I will probably put epoxy over that area.

I’d be less inclined to offer it to all and sundry to jump a bunch out of it, but that’s just me. Try hard enough and most toys can be broken, just ask ‘Stride!

[Rawnei]

3 minutes ago, Freeforester said:

I’d be less inclined to offer it to all and sundry to jump a bunch out of it, but that’s just me. Try hard enough and most toys can be broken, just ask ‘Stride!

That it broke in this fashion clearly show's that it's too weak, no way to rationalize that, and if it's too weak it's possible that other things will cause too much stress over time, for instance riding stairs or technical off-road, we don't know at this point, this part should 100% be redesign/reinforced in factory.

[techyiam]

4 hours ago, Cobaltsaber said:

Patton battery blew out the bottom of the frame. Was jumped a bunch at the public demo.

Looking at the photo, the hinge section of the pedal on the same side looks really bashed up. Are you guys claiming there were no abuse?

Edited June 30, 2023 by techyiam

[CrabChampion]

36 minutes ago, techyiam said:

Looking at the photo, the hinge section of the pedal on the same side looks really bashed up. Are you guys claiming there were no abuse?

No, its been abused. But the fact that it failed in such a fashion. Those endcaps really should be metal instead of plastic. Eevees claimed this wheel is the most sturdiest yet, especially with the crash testing footage they did over in China. I dont really see the difference compared to other wheels on the market that most are claiming. There can be improvements

[Poker]

A bit hard to tell from the picture, is it just the plastic cover that came out or did part of the aluminum casing crack lose? 

[OliG]

47 minutes ago, Cobaltsaber said:

No, its been abused. But the fact that it failed in such a fashion. Those endcaps really should be metal instead of plastic. Eevees claimed this wheel is the most sturdiest yet, especially with the crash testing footage they did over in China. I dont really see the difference compared to other wheels on the market that most are claiming. There can be improvements

I just checked again how it’s made under mine (see picture). I honestly don’t understand how you succeed to do this.
 

Congratulations 😝!

 

Bottom of battery box is closed by a strong plastic cover than the « bumper «  bottom part comes on top of it to add a second layer. Doesn’t seem to be a real weak spot.

 

 

 

[Critzlez]

13 minutes ago, OliG said:

I just checked again how it’s made under mine (see picture). I honestly don’t understand how you succeed to do this.
 

Congratulations 😝!

 

Bottom of battery box is closed by a strong plastic cover than the « bumper «  bottom part comes on top of it to add a second layer. Doesn’t seem to be a real weak spot.

 

 

 

Agreed. I also checked on my patton and really the only way I believe that kind of fracture could've happened is if some object punctured it when offroading. It'd have to be punctured directly from the bottom, which would be very hard to do unless you are doing really technical offroad trails. The plastic that was punctured was the bottom layer, and that is pretty thin

Still, this is legitimately a concern to consider, because this is a battery housing. I don't want to take chances on any durability issues relating to the battery especially if it can cause fires. They could've easily made it metal instead of plastic.

Edited June 30, 2023 by Critzlez

[OliG]

18 minutes ago, Critzlez said:

Agreed. I also checked on my patton and really the only way I believe that kind of fracture could've happened is if some object punctured it when offroading. It'd have to be punctured directly from the bottom, which would be very hard to do unless you are doing really technical offroad trails. The plastic that was punctured was the bottom layer, and that is pretty thin

Still, this is legitimately a concern to consider, because this is a battery housing. I don't want to take chances on any durability issues relating to the battery especially if it can cause fires. They could've easily made it metal instead of plastic.

Yes, of course agreed that battery housing must in general (not specifically on Patton) be strong, high quality and well sealed. It must also be designed to avoid becoming a bomb in case of issue/fire on the cells. 

But don't forget that low quality metal will not be stronger than high quality plastic.  

Again it could be interresting to have more detailled pictures of the broken parts and under what conditions it happened in order to understand the probability to have this issue.

 

[Critzlez]

Yeah, it seems like they could've just made the plastic thicker. There's that hole on that layer of plastic too, which could've been easily filled in to make it more durable, plus just making that layer overall thicker.

[stephen]

56 minutes ago, Critzlez said:

They could've easily made it metal instead of plastic.

few more metal bits and it be the same weight as Sherman-s 😁

[jimjam.nyc]

8 hours ago, Cobaltsaber said:

Patton battery blew out the bottom of the frame. Was jumped a bunch at the public demo. Combined with the leaky shock, broken axle bolt and now this, i'm not sure where the leaperkim quality is. Just seems like any other wheel to me

 

Pretty sure every demo wheel has been busted up in some way or another. They get trashed to hell because nobody owns them. People actually try to break them. Which I think is great for us!

Looks like something LK needs to look at and fix.

It's nothing that looks like will be wide spread though.

Would have been great to see more angles of where it failed rather than the pic from up top with no real detail.

I feel like weak or loosened motor bolts and leaky untightened shocks as a bigger quality issue.

Edit: I will say the one thing inmotion does right. Their battery packs are not just slid in a box. They are fully form fitted in their container and bolted under the shell.

I am not against this battery box on the outside, but it seems like there is still improvements to be made to this design. 

Wonder if they can make perfectly sealed metal containers with some sort of pressure release if something blows.

Edited June 30, 2023 by jimjam.nyc
added thoughts

[Duf]

On 6/29/2023 at 7:38 AM, unicycle bunny said:

i can't figure out how to apply these stickers supplied by ewheel - did anyone go thru it? show me your photos! 

I'm trying to figure out what the two rubber "I"'s are for as well as all of those small plastic pieces with velcro

[Rollin-on-1]

13 minutes ago, Duf said:

I'm trying to figure out what the two rubber "I"'s are for as well as all of those small plastic pieces with velcro

The I's hold the front pad to the part that would go over your foot.  Together they act like a Flow or Kinetic pad system.  Those little tabs with velcro are a bit confusing to me though.  It seems like a lot of extra design for something that isn't an obvious benefit.