Veteran Patton 16" 126v 2220wh

[techyiam]

3 hours ago, mrelwood said:

5 hours ago, techyiam said:

Look at how well the suspension is soaking up the undulations for the rider doing stairs in the video below:

It didn’t seem as smooth as some 18/20” wheels though, for understandable reasons

What stood out for me was that the tire was fairly well inflated. A lot times, the stairs demos from China has the tires underinflated. Watch it at the slowest playback speed with it zoomed during the slow motion section. Observe the relative motion between the tire and wheel, and how little the wheel moves up and down even though the tire is decently inflated. 

[mrelwood]

21 minutes ago, techyiam said:

Observe the relative motion between the tire and wheel, and how little the wheel moves up and down even though the tire is decently inflated. 

You are probably talking about the very last take where they ride the stairs quite fast. It’s normal for any EUC to float over the stairs’ edges. But look at the first stairs clip. The rider’s feet slam on the pedals at every step, and the whole take seems even a bit jarring. My feet don’t slam like that on stairs on my V11.

[stizl]

14 hours ago, techyiam said:

Observe the relative motion between the tire and wheel, and how little the wheel moves up and down even though the tire is decently inflated. 

As @mrelwood pointed out, the one run down the stairs looks a bit jarring, but overall I am impressed with the suspension performance they are showing from only 80mm of travel, especially on the jumps. Those landings look pretty smooth. Also, credit the technique of the rider in making it look so smooth.  

19 hours ago, mrelwood said:

 The spring length looked to be roughly something like 25cm when freely extended. And I think the suspension travel is 10cm. That wouldn’t increase The pressure in a sealed chamber higher than something like 27psi. Most shock pumps’ dial has barely even started at that point. For reference, I use 160psi in my V11 air shocks when they are fully extended. When compressed it gets up to around 600psi IIRC. 27psi really is nothing. Definitely not worth disassembling your struts to insert a volume spacer.

Thanks for the references. I think you’re probably correct about it not being worth disassembling. On an upside-down damping rod strut (Patton/Sherman type), near full disassembly and draining of fluid is usually required to change the spring too. 
 

Likely incremental differences in performance would only be worth it IMO in a racing scenario where you’re chasing tenths of seconds and there is prize money involved. 

[Ronin]

 

[dredwheel]

1 hour ago, Ronin Ryder said:

 

🔥🔥🔥

love seeing patton reviews. this was a good combo of riding and information. 

[slippyfeet]

Theoretically, if LK offered Nylon panels w/ stainless steel screw anchors (while keeping the aluminum substructure components around the most common impact points e.g. toe hook/kickstand), how much lighter could it get? 

Cross-threading a single screw on this would probably make me cry.

[art1]

 

[Freeforester]

 

[Rawnei]

 

[That Guy]

4 hours ago, Freeforester said:

 

Remarkable to see tend to be skeptical Denis so happy! Patton surely must be something out of this world for this guy to be that excited... :-)

Edited May 3, 2023 by That Guy

[jimjam.nyc]

Everyone who gets their hands on this wheel have had some really positive things to say so far.

Fingers crossed the patton avoids any major 1st batch blunders that many other wheels have suffered.

I know the first round of production was held back a bit to fix bearing seals, and some other things. Hopefully that is a good sign.

[mrelwood]

51 minutes ago, That Guy said:

Remarkable to see tend to be skeptical Denis so happy! Patton surely must be something out of this world for this guy to be that excited... :-)

I started to watch the review after reading your comment, and then Dennis started with the top edges of the battery boxes bruising his legs blue on the first ride, being unable to plug in the charger due to lousy design, trolley handle being sticky, unable to use any pads currently at the markets, and the beeps from button presses being the loudest beep from any EUC, enough to alert the whole block, etc…

I get that insane power is fun, and a 16” wheel makes it feel even more instant. But if I’m expected to pay thousands for an EUC, it needs to have it’s schtick at least somewhat together from the usability perspective as well. The lack of ergonomics alone would be a showstopper for me. I think we really should be way past those kinds of issues by now.

Come to think of it, did Dennis even have anything positive to say about anything else but the power?

So, a heads up for anyone who cares about anything else as well.

[dredwheel]

46 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

I started to watch the review after reading your comment, and then Dennis started with the top edges of the battery boxes bruising his legs blue on the first ride, being unable to plug in the charger due to lousy design, trolley handle being sticky, unable to use any pads currently at the markets, and the beeps from button presses being the loudest beep from any EUC, enough to alert the whole block, etc…

I get that insane power is fun, and a 16” wheel makes it feel even more instant. But if I’m expected to pay thousands for an EUC, it needs to have it’s schtick at least somewhat together from the usability perspective as well. The lack of ergonomics alone would be a showstopper for me. I think we really should be way past those kinds of issues by now.

Come to think of it, did Dennis even have anything positive to say about anything else but the power?

So, a heads up for anyone who cares about anything else as well.

I don't know... those seem like pretty minor issues that we can't even be sure  don't have remedies. For instance, you can just go with the specific pads made for sherman s/patton. they fit fine. is there no way to adjust the beeps? and even if not, how often will i really be using it? especially since I can just use my phone. inconvenient charging ports are temporary irritations (like the s22, i can plug it in blindfolded now.)

 

but I can see why you'd hold off if you were waiting for the perfect wheel, but I think patton offers more than just raw power.

[slippyfeet]

 

On 4/27/2023 at 10:58 AM, slippyfeet said:

Theoretically, if LK offered Nylon panels w/ stainless steel screw anchors (while keeping the aluminum substructure components around the most common impact points e.g. toe hook/kickstand), how much lighter could it get? 

Cross-threading a single screw on this would probably make me cry.

Wrong Way just posted his unboxing. And yup, stripped the aluminum as I presumed...

[mrelwood]

4 hours ago, dredwheel said:

I don't know... those seem like pretty minor issues that we can't even be sure  don't have remedies.

Pads will be available for sure, it will just take a while until there are offerings enough to actually choose from.

The other issues are much more difficult to tackle. To my knowledge you can’t silence button presses such as powering on, which will wake up your whole family. Charger port location will require actual trickery to get into, and the battery box edges will require additional padding that will harm the already unnatural boxy ergonomics. GW Tesla is known for this, which I hated to ride. The tall and wider Patton is most probably much worse.

I generally choose products that are a joy to use. They definitely don’t need to be perfect, but I do have an issue with products that don’t have a shred of thought spared for it’s everyday features. Besides the pads, all other mentioned aspects (+ the headlight) are well thought out and a joy to use on a 3 year old V11, why would I have to compromise so severely on those now?

4 hours ago, dredwheel said:

I think patton offers more than just raw power.

I’d like to hear, what else is there for you?

[jimjam.nyc]

6 hours ago, mrelwood said:

Charger port location will require actual trickery to get into.

To be fair I believe it was mentioned since the first ever review of the patton by electric dreams that this issue will be fixed in production with slightly higher handles.

I guess if you ignore the suspension, software updates like pwm tiltback, (I know inmotion has tiltback and alarms I love my v12), great battery cells, good build quality and weather resistance, etc, one can say this wheel is only about the power.

Also just to be fair. Inmotion has issues with boards causing cutouts, shoddy parts, bearings going bad, etc. I never really gained the trust in my v12 even after 2k miles.

As someone who really loves my inmotion wheels, I am looking fwd to checking out the patton and seeing the differences in software and hardware.

Edit: my biggest beef so far with patton is the cross threading potential on the screws. 

Edited May 4, 2023 by jimjam.nyc

[Rollin-on-1]

6 hours ago, mrelwood said:

generally choose products that are a joy to use

Litterally everyone that has demoed the Patton have raved about how the Patton is a joy to ride and it trolleys better than many other wheels.  

 

6 hours ago, mrelwood said:

Charger port location will require actual trickery to get into,

I think this concern has been blown out of proportion. The production handles are supposed to be raised so it is easier to access the charge ports.  

 

6 hours ago, mrelwood said:

Pads will be available for sure,

May of the pads curently on the market will work just fine, with or without the bumpers.  There are pads that are available on AliExpress that have been on many of the demo wheels too.  It will also be easy to add a panel to the side like people have done for the S22 and all the Master style Begode wheels.  Again, I think the concerns about pads are blown out of proportion.

 

6 hours ago, mrelwood said:

the battery box edges will require additional padding that will harm the already unnatural boxy ergonomics

How many people have actually complained about this?  People complained about the Sherman S at first and the S22.  These are both very popular wheels and people have found a way to make it work.  I see no difference with the Patton - those that are bothered by it will find a way.

I am confused by your negative stance on the Patton.  It goes against almost everything the majority of reviewers have said.  It almost feels like trolling. 

 

[jimjam.nyc]

22 minutes ago, Rollin-on-1 said:

I am confused by your negative stance on the Patton.  It goes against almost everything the majority of reviewers have said.  It almost feels like trolling. 

 

This happens on this forum with every single wheel release.  For some reason people feel the need to put down what other people are interested in when it doest match what they enjoy or are interested in. Especially when the wheel coming out is a bit hyped up

I don't take @mrelwood as a troll though. He provides a lot of useful information to this forum and even on the InMotion telegram.

I definitely don't dismiss the negatives points on the Patton that are brought up. It's just most of the points raised actually apply to most wheels on the market.

 

[techyiam]

8 hours ago, mrelwood said:

the battery box edges will require additional padding that will harm the already unnatural boxy ergonomics. GW Tesla is known for this, which I hated to ride. The tall and wider Patton is most probably much worse.

I can provide a data point this since I have ridden a Patton. 

Firstly, riders can have enough anatomical differences to make a particular wheel fit well ergonomically or not.

Secondly, it also depends on an individual's past experiences. For example, the first time I got on an S22, the width at the top was so wide that I couldn't ride it at all. Now that I have been riding my Abrams for some months now, when I got on another S22, its width was no longer a problem. Note that the width of my Abrams at the top is wide, and it makes contact with my leg at a point even higher up. But the flexibility my the joints in my lower legs have improved and can accommodate better now. 

I rode the Patton around a very tight track at relatively slow speeds, and I had no ergonomically related problems whatsoever. My lower legs are usually very sensitive to any kind of pressure points. They just bruise very easily. But I had no problems with the Patton. My legs were lightly bruised (there was pain even after I got off) even after riding my Abrams for a few feet. Yes, the Abrams is that wide, and my legs are that sensitive. 

Therefore, I would not automatically assume that the Patton will be a problem for everyone, ergonomically. 

Let say this. I would suspect many riders would have to adapt to an Abrams ergo's. Whereas, many less would have to on the Patton. 

8 hours ago, mrelwood said:

I’d like to hear, what else is there for you?

I am going to chime in.

Denis Hagov is a glass half empty type of guy. The fact that he have so few negatives to say about the Patton is really is a good sign.

However, we need to acknowledge that he did not spend a lot of time praising the suspension, but it was implied. Basically, the FastAce suspension in both the Sherman-S and Patton is smooth and can absorb bumps effectively, once dialed in. Note that I didn't say wheel control. That is because I thought the S22 did a better job, IMO. But, this is not definitive since the Patton's suspension was not dialed-in to my weight. Mind you, the S22 wasn't either.

Denis also mentioned insane, another level of torque. Well, I felt none of that. I am not a big heavy rider. And maybe I haven't figured put how to use the pads yet, but the ease of acceleration and braking was not a standout for me. However, the S22 without the latest firmware update felt even worse.

My first impression on the Patton is that it is a wheel that have many things going for it.

(1) Competitive waterproofing: CHECKED

(2) Good build quality: CHECKED

(3) Class leading suspension, emphasis on comfort: CHECKED.

(4) Easy to ride characteristics: CHECKED.

Now, I don't do offroad, and I only rode a few laps on a very tight track outlined by cones in a not so smooth, slightly sloping parking lot.

Even so, I was impressed by the S22 chassis dynamics. It felt it instantly made me a better rider. Exactly what Lukas at Eevees said right at the beginning, and I didn't believe him. I thought he had a personal bias because they bought a boat load to sell. 

The other wheel I was impressed with was the V13, even on such a tight track. The V13 is not for everyone, but it does possess special qualities. 

In short, my first impression of the Patton is that it could be a great wheel, but it felt kind of mundane to me (it didn't stand out above the S22 and V13 for me), based to my limited time on it. Maybe for offroad, or for heavier riders who can access all the torque, it would feel different. 

 

That is not to say I wouldn't buy it. 

I would like to buy a suspension wheel. 

But it is not a easy decision to make. As impressive as the S22 Pro may be, overall, it is not a slam dunk. It still have open sliders, and the rollers are not durable. The motor performance is not class leading. And there may be still issues with the boards frying.

The V13 is also attractive in my eyes, but the Patton is a lot cheaper and offers a lot. If the Patton really have PWM-based tiltback, that's a pretty big deal.

I am going to wait to hear more about the Commander Pro, Commander Mini, and the Extreme. And maybe to be released Inmotion wheels. 

But for those of you that can't wait, the Patton may be a good choice.

Edited May 4, 2023 by techyiam

[techyiam]

1 hour ago, Rollin-on-1 said:

Litterally everyone that has demoed the Patton have raved about how the Patton is a joy to ride

I may be the outlier. For pavement, I enjoyed riding the S22, the V13, and my Abrams (only on smooth surfaces) more. However, I would say the Patton is a better wheel than the V12.

1 hour ago, Rollin-on-1 said:

it trolleys better than many other wheels

I believe this to be true. My Abrams trolley sucks because it is so flimsy that it cannot handle the weight of the Abrams.

Edited May 4, 2023 by techyiam

[Rawnei]

16 hours ago, mrelwood said:

I started to watch the review after reading your comment, and then Dennis started with the top edges of the battery boxes bruising his legs blue on the first ride, being unable to plug in the charger due to lousy design, trolley handle being sticky, unable to use any pads currently at the markets, and the beeps from button presses being the loudest beep from any EUC, enough to alert the whole block, etc…

I get that insane power is fun, and a 16” wheel makes it feel even more instant. But if I’m expected to pay thousands for an EUC, it needs to have it’s schtick at least somewhat together from the usability perspective as well. The lack of ergonomics alone would be a showstopper for me. I think we really should be way past those kinds of issues by now.

Come to think of it, did Dennis even have anything positive to say about anything else but the power?

So, a heads up for anyone who cares about anything else as well.

You have to look at the complete package, it's a very attractive package for a 12" rim wheel in 2023, currently best in class.

Edited May 4, 2023 by Rawnei

[Paul D]

I can barely stand my V11 suspension after the SS. This seems like a great replacement. If only I was rich!😢

the weight of the SS doesn’t bother me at all. In fact I kinda like it now. 

[jimjam.nyc]

The InMotion crowd is getting on edge. Build quality on other brands (even begode) is creeping up. InMotion is trying to compete more in the speed/power realm with some real growing pains and catching up to do. Their suspension while not bad is falling behind as well. Their latest model the v13 uses almost the same as the v11.  Brand loyalty brings nothing to the table. We should all be rooting for all of the major manufacturers of wheels to succeed. It will only bring a better product to all of us in the end. 

Noone can deny though the v13 brought some really good battery safety and enhancements to the table. While i wasn't interested in that wheel it was exciting to see and hope others will take note! It is way too easy to look at the v13 and rip it apart for all the reasons it is not for me. 

Like I said. I am looking forward to getting my Patton and First wheel that is not an inmotion or kingsong. Barring any first run production downfalls, this wheel is looking really good. It will be a win for all if this wheel holds up and does well. 

 

 

 

[dredwheel]

8 hours ago, mrelwood said:

 

I’d like to hear, what else is there for you?

I didn't get a Hero in 2023 because I wanted more power, that's for sure haha. I value sturdiness/build quality, weight displacement, ride quality, aesthetics, discreetness, suspension, etc... 

I'm particularly interested in the Patton because of its width. I've gotten used to the wide stance of the S22, and I've found I very much prefer it over narrower wheels. 

Haven't ridden it yet, but I'm sure I'm going to find some faults with it. But I've found faults with every wheel I've ever owned or tried. 

[Rollin-on-1]

6 hours ago, jimjam.nyc said:

I don't take @mrelwood as a troll though. He provides a lot of useful information to this forum and even on the InMotion telegram.

I agree, he is a respected contributor with a great deal of credibility.  I was 95% joking when I implied he was trolling.  His response to the Patton's drawbacks seem exagerated though, since Patton seems to be one of the most complete, ready-out-of-the-box wheels to be released in a while.  There is no perfect wheel, but LK sure seems like they made a valiant effort with the Patton.

Edited May 4, 2023 by Rollin-on-1
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