Sherman S Disassembly Findings, Thoughts, and Ownership Log

[techyiam]

14 minutes ago, UPONIT said:

Abec-3 Bearings made in USA, $75 each.

I suppose these are not knockoffs then. 🙂

[InfiniteWheelie]

22 hours ago, UPONIT said:

McMaster-Carr has 4 choices in 6208-2rs bearings, ranging from $25 to $125 each (for stainless steel). Permanent-solid-polymer-lubed and sealed, $75/ea. Abec-3 Bearings made in USA, $75 each.

Options for added longevity/quality/precision...

These look amazing, has anyone tried them before? It looks like they repel water, snow, mud, and even pressure washing according to this video. If they last multiple seasons of bad weather they'd be worth whatever they cost.

 

 

Edited February 4, 2023 by InfiniteWheelie

[MrMonoWheel]

So today I opened up my wheel to change the bearings, and I have discovered some... interesting things. I have 200 miles on the wheel, and its never been submerged or ridden through salt water/rivers. The very most I did was ride it down the dry part of a beach during low tide. The wheel had some sand on it, but it was not wet at all. The inside of the motor housing has a ton of corrosion everywhere. Im not sure what exactly is causing this, but its not what I want to see inside of a $4k wheel. I was planning on swapping the bearings, but now I dont know what I should do. I am in contact with GT King and pretty much at the end of my patience with this wheel. I told them I expect either a new wheel, replacement motor and suspension (due to the clunking and stiction), or a refund. Otherwise I will be getting in contact with Amex to sort this out. I had high hopes for the wheel and remained hopeful throughout all the problems, but it just seems that the build quality and attention to detail is not what I expected. When everything is working well its an amazing wheel to ride, but theres just too many things that could cause it to not work properly.

One other finding, before tearing down the wheel I loosened up the 4 top bolts on either side that connect the battery housing to the motherboard housing, and the suspension moved a lot smoother without issue. This indicates that there is obviously an alignment issue with the way the wheel is designed, putting strain on the stanchions causing the struts to have increase resistance. However, even after taking the struts out and pushing them up and down on the floor I still feel some pretty weird stickiness at the start of the travel and when it changes direction. It makes an audible sound too, almost like an internal element is extra sticky. So while the alignment took away a lot of the stiction, theres still something wrong with the suspension itself.

Note: Before opening up the motor I thoroughly washed it with soap/water and then blasted it with a pressure washer. My idea was that under this worst case scenario I would want to see how much water gets inside the motor (or at least past the bearings) as I will be opening it anyway so I could dry it out. The funny part is there was absolutely no moisture anywhere inside the motor or past the bearings, so nothing I could have done during ownership would have caused this inside the motor.

 

 

 

And in these images, you can see there is rust/corrosion on the laminated core as well as rub marks on the magnets from where they are making contact of some sort.

[techyiam]

How about the condition of the bearings making noise? Was the motor wiring channel in the axle sealed properly? 

[Steve Evans]

1 hour ago, MrMonoWheel said:

So today I opened up my wheel to change the bearings, and I have discovered some... interesting things. I have 200 miles on the wheel, and its never been submerged or ridden through salt water/rivers. The very most I did was ride it down the dry part of a beach during low tide. The wheel had some sand on it, but it was not wet at all. The inside of the motor housing has a ton of corrosion everywhere. Im not sure what exactly is causing this, but its not what I want to see inside of a $4k wheel. I was planning on swapping the bearings, but now I dont know what I should do. I am in contact with GT King and pretty much at the end of my patience with this wheel. I told them I expect either a new wheel, replacement motor and suspension (due to the clunking and stiction), or a refund. Otherwise I will be getting in contact with Amex to sort this out. I had high hopes for the wheel and remained hopeful throughout all the problems, but it just seems that the build quality and attention to detail is not what I expected. When everything is working well its an amazing wheel to ride, but theres just too many things that could cause it to not work properly.

One other finding, before tearing down the wheel I loosened up the 4 top bolts on either side that connect the battery housing to the motherboard housing, and the suspension moved a lot smoother without issue. This indicates that there is obviously an alignment issue with the way the wheel is designed, putting strain on the stanchions causing the struts to have increase resistance. However, even after taking the struts out and pushing them up and down on the floor I still feel some pretty weird stickiness at the start of the travel and when it changes direction. It makes an audible sound too, almost like an internal element is extra sticky. So while the alignment took away a lot of the stiction, theres still something wrong with the suspension itself.

Note: Before opening up the motor I thoroughly washed it with soap/water and then blasted it with a pressure washer. My idea was that under this worst case scenario I would want to see how much water gets inside the motor (or at least past the bearings) as I will be opening it anyway so I could dry it out. The funny part is there was absolutely no moisture anywhere inside the motor or past the bearings, so nothing I could have done during ownership would have caused this inside the motor.

 

 

 

And in these images, you can see there is rust/corrosion on the laminated core as well as rub marks on the magnets from where they are making contact of some sort.

OMG, i cannot imagine how much this must be pissing you off. it looks to me like the wheel (or motor at least) has been submerged in salt water. cannot imagine how that could possibly happen on a new wheel.

also, there maybe other water damage elsewhere in the wheel (like inside the shocks etc)

i would hold off on putting in the new bearings and give gtking a chance to respond.

i gotta believe they will make this right.

so sorry this happened to you

good luck,

steve

 

Edited February 13, 2023 by Steve Evans

[novazeus]

that sucks! ur teardown and photos drove me away from leaperkim. thank u!

buying wheels online without being able to examine them in person is a crap shoot.

i'll stick with the devils i know, king song and inmotion.

[Steve Evans]

1 hour ago, MrMonoWheel said:

So today I opened up my wheel to change the bearings, and I have discovered some... interesting things. I have 200 miles on the wheel, and its never been submerged or ridden through salt water/rivers. The very most I did was ride it down the dry part of a beach during low tide. The wheel had some sand on it, but it was not wet at all. The inside of the motor housing has a ton of corrosion everywhere. Im not sure what exactly is causing this, but its not what I want to see inside of a $4k wheel. I was planning on swapping the bearings, but now I dont know what I should do. I am in contact with GT King and pretty much at the end of my patience with this wheel. I told them I expect either a new wheel, replacement motor and suspension (due to the clunking and stiction), or a refund. Otherwise I will be getting in contact with Amex to sort this out. I had high hopes for the wheel and remained hopeful throughout all the problems, but it just seems that the build quality and attention to detail is not what I expected. When everything is working well its an amazing wheel to ride, but theres just too many things that could cause it to not work properly.

One other finding, before tearing down the wheel I loosened up the 4 top bolts on either side that connect the battery housing to the motherboard housing, and the suspension moved a lot smoother without issue. This indicates that there is obviously an alignment issue with the way the wheel is designed, putting strain on the stanchions causing the struts to have increase resistance. However, even after taking the struts out and pushing them up and down on the floor I still feel some pretty weird stickiness at the start of the travel and when it changes direction. It makes an audible sound too, almost like an internal element is extra sticky. So while the alignment took away a lot of the stiction, theres still something wrong with the suspension itself.

Note: Before opening up the motor I thoroughly washed it with soap/water and then blasted it with a pressure washer. My idea was that under this worst case scenario I would want to see how much water gets inside the motor (or at least past the bearings) as I will be opening it anyway so I could dry it out. The funny part is there was absolutely no moisture anywhere inside the motor or past the bearings, so nothing I could have done during ownership would have caused this inside the motor.

 

 

 

And in these images, you can see there is rust/corrosion on the laminated core as well as rub marks on the magnets from where they are making contact of some sort.

out of curiosity, how many miles did the wheel have when you got it?

 

[MrMonoWheel]

1 hour ago, techyiam said:

How about the condition of the bearings making noise? Was the motor wiring channel in the axle sealed properly? 

 

54 minutes ago, Steve Evans said:

OMG, i cannot imagine how much this must be pissing you off. it looks to me like the wheel (or motor at least) has been submerged in salt water. cannot imagine how that could possibly happen on a new wheel.

also, there maybe other water damage elsewhere in the wheel (like inside the shocks etc)

i would hold off on putting in the new bearings and give gtking a chance to respond.

i gotta believe they will make this right.

so sorry this happened to you

good luck,

steve

 

It definitely surprised me. I am hoping they can make this right as well, but I definitely am pretty pissed.

 

45 minutes ago, novazeus said:

that sucks! ur teardown and photos drove me away from leaperkim. thank u!

buying wheels online without being able to examine them in person is a crap shoot.

i'll stick with the devils i know, king song and inmotion.

Thats the thing, even if I could have inspected this wheel in person it would have looked perfectly fine, all the problems I have had have occurred within the last 100 miles.

 

38 minutes ago, Steve Evans said:

out of curiosity, how many miles did the wheel have when you got it?

 

When I got the wheel it had 2 miles on it, however seeing that the wheel reset itself to zero miles out of the blue I cant actually know what the wheel has been through. That being said, everything appeared new when I unboxed it so I believe it really was a new unit.

[novazeus]

13 minutes ago, MrMonoWheel said:

Thats the thing, even if I could have inspected this wheel in person it would have looked perfectly fine, all the problems I have had have occurred within the last 100 miles.

yeah ur right about that. my decisions come from teardown videos and just judging the wheels on workmanship. if the work looks tidy, it makes me think the wheel is quality. if i see sloppy work, i think the wheel is less quality. a sloppy built wheel might function perfectly, and a tidy wheel might fail, but not knowing what i'm looking at, that's all i have to go on. 

i hope leaperkim takes care of u. 

[MrMonoWheel]

15 minutes ago, novazeus said:

yeah ur right about that. my decisions come from teardown videos and just judging the wheels on workmanship. if the work looks tidy, it makes me think the wheel is quality. if i see sloppy work, i think the wheel is less quality. a sloppy built wheel might function perfectly, and a tidy wheel might fail, but not knowing what i'm looking at, that's all i have to go on. 

i hope leaperkim takes care of u. 

Yep I agree with that. In the eevees teardown the sherman S looked quite good, but my reality has been different as you all have seen 

[wstuart]

4 hours ago, MrMonoWheel said:

Yep I agree with that. In the eevees teardown the sherman S looked quite good, but my reality has been different as you all have seen 

Wow man.  That is absolutely shocking. There is one other guy here in Dan Diego who will be installing new bearings on his Sherman S soon.  I will ask him if he sees something similar. 

[Planemo]

On 2/3/2023 at 10:05 AM, UPONIT said:

 Abec-3 Bearings made in USA, $75 each.

Hmm.. despite the price, ABEC-3 is right down on the scale re the ABEC grading

ABEC Rating Guide - Emerson Bearing

[Funky]

It's sad to see that on new wheel.  I don't wanna be that guy... (Just kidding.) But i TOLD YOU SO.  

Sorry for being Debbie Downer. That's how problems start..

 

Ps. I'm gonna exit the topic now. (So if you don't want me coming back - don't @me.) 

[DragonFZ]

11 hours ago, novazeus said:

that sucks! ur teardown and photos drove me away from leaperkim. thank u!

buying wheels online without being able to examine them in person is a crap shoot.

i'll stick with the devils i know, king song and inmotion.

Examining it would not work. No mechanic is going to do a teardown of the motor unless they have to.

I'm assuming all the EUC companies don't QC the motor they receive from Motor Manufacturers. So far, all the EUC companies have been very responsive to bad motors. Let's see what happens. Maybe, we might get a new improved 3500W motor.

Edited February 13, 2023 by DragonFZ

[novazeus]

1 hour ago, DragonFZ said:

Examining it would not work. No mechanic is going to do a teardown of the motor unless they have to.

I'm assuming all the EUC companies don't QC the motor they receive from Motor Manufacturers. So far, all the EUC companies have been very responsive to bad motors. Let's see what happens. Maybe, we might get a new improved 3500W motor.

like this, but even if the motor isn't opened up, u can see clues of how tidy or not the wheel was assembled.

 

[Funky]

2 hours ago, novazeus said:

like this, but even if the motor isn't opened up, u can see clues of how tidy or not the wheel was assembled.

 

OMG those caps on motherboard aren't even SILICONED.. What he did with finger - would happen each time you hit a bump on road. Over time those caps will simply break off! 1:25 video time.

Or was that simply pre-release model? I hope they don't sell the wheel like that.

Edited February 13, 2023 by Funky

[MrMonoWheel]

53 minutes ago, Funky said:

OMG those caps on motherboard aren't even SILICONED.. That he did with finger - would happen each time you hit a bump on road. Over time those caps will simply break off! 1:25 video time.

Or was that simply pre-release model? I hope they don't sell the wheel like that.

Mine are all siliconed down, it was one of the first things I checked when I got the wheel as I planned to silicone them myself if they weren't already. 

[MrMonoWheel]

Update: Swapped in the SKF bearings. Getting the motor covers off was a pain in the ass, but the key was heating up the inner area near the bearing with a heat gun/torch to get it to expand and come off as I pried up the sides with tire spoons. First I hammered the bearings onto the main shaft with a block of wood on the other side to support, I used a 40mm 12 point socket as it fits perfectly over the inner race and has enough space for the axle to come up. Once the bearing is all the way on, the motor cover can be gently hammered on using a rubber mallet. I ditched the silicone paste for Lucas marine grade bearing grease as it should do a much better job keeping things sealed up. 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004QO9FAM/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[TheNotoriousEUC]

13 hours ago, MrMonoWheel said:

Update: Swapped in the SKF bearings. Getting the motor covers off was a pain in the ass, but the key was heating up the inner area near the bearing with a heat gun/torch to get it to expand and come off as I pried up the sides with tire spoons. First I hammered the bearings onto the main shaft with a block of wood on the other side to support, I used a 40mm 12 point socket as it fits perfectly over the inner race and has enough space for the axle to come up. Once the bearing is all the way on, the motor cover can be gently hammered on using a rubber mallet. I ditched the silicone paste for Lucas marine grade bearing grease as it should do a much better job keeping things sealed up. 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004QO9FAM/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

……and this is why these wheels are not in danger of becoming mainstream anytime soon 😂. I am starting to think these companies should just send wheels out as ‘build your own’ kits and save on labor. I have looked at what I need for personal safety and possible wheel protection and have taken the latter in consideration when deciding on a wheel. What I have also learned is I will need to budget for a whole new collection of tools and it doesn’t matter the wheel/company with InMotion being *maybe* the lone exception…now. IMO these companies are doing more to hurt their bottom line by not caring about their roll-outs not because people won’t buy them, they clearly will but that group is a small minority. Prices for these wheels are skyrocketing but the build quality is still questionable. It will never fly with the masses and therefore never be mainstream no matter how many commercials they appear in. To be completely honest, I’m okay with that part but I also don’t want to send this thread down that rabbit hole.😉

 

[Tawpie]

3 minutes ago, TheNotoriousEUC said:

InMotion being *maybe* the lone exception

Sadly, they're not any better than the rest of them. They tend to do neater work which is a start, but you still need to include the price of a good set to T handled hex wrenches in your wheel budget. Fortunately, China also provides us with affordable tools. You'll need them eventually to fix a flat anyway!

[TheNotoriousEUC]

Timely! It seems Dawn is on a live talking about this right now but Ronin (Ryder) posted video on IG of his V13 Cutout.

 

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CouTo1_gieM/?igshid=NTdlMDg3MTY=

[UPONIT]

On 2/13/2023 at 12:30 AM, Planemo said:

Hmm.. despite the price, ABEC-3 is right down on the scale re the ABEC grading

ABEC Rating Guide - Emerson Bearing

Not sure what you mean? The rating isn't a "linear" type of comparison (Abec-5 is x% better than Abec-3, which is y% better than Abec-1)

Regardless, I doubt higher-rated bearing is useful for this case. Just pointing out that higher quality is an option available to regular consumers.

[MrMonoWheel]

Got the wheel all finished up today. Sounds and rides fantastic with the new bearings. I took care when assembling everything to do it as evenly as possible and it does seem the suspension is 25% as sticky as before. Obviously there's some alignment stuff going on causing this. I'm still waiting to see what GT King says. If they end up sending me a new motor I will swap the bearings in that one before I even put it in the wheel. This will also give me a chance to see if the inside has any corrosion.

One thing that I need to repair is one of the screws holding the battery housings to the motherboard housing stripped out the threads, so I need to buy a HeliCoil kit and fix that. Otherwise everything seems fine for now.

Mess of a garage:

 

Getting it back together:

 

Finished:

[Tasku]

Hello @MrMonoWheel!
Great topic you have here.

I looked at that motor picture of yours. The white goopy stuff, was that like mold? Did it go off easy? Make me wonder if some poured their drink or soup in there. Yucky!

The motor seems to hold good enough against water if you hosed it down? There should have been water inside, yet you said there was not? I did not find it that likely that the beach ride could have caused anything base on that, as what was shown in the pictures. Just my thoughts but I think what was inside was from factory testlines, cause you had early batch.

Then regarding the magnets, you said that after you assembled it back you did not hear magnets scraping anything?

That rust in magnets, seemed totally harmless, only on surface. I assume you rubbed it off? Pretty sure those magnets was as it is during assembly and some did not clean em fully. Stockpiles of magnets tend to get rust in surface in storages, and they get prolly big shipments. You can use products that are designed to protect that electric motor from rusting. That sorta products usually last ~2 years before need to use again. Magnets tend to rust but even you would not do anything to em, the motor would still function for long time. 1-year maintenance plan, to take look in the motor, is good. +we get more pictures! 

But if you wanna replace it(motor), I assume you have to send the motor back first, then wait that they get it, then wait that they send it back. If you get more discount, take that instead.

Sorry to hear old bearings was bad, but gotta love the pictures and story. Hope ya get smooth rides as reward!

Edited February 16, 2023 by Tasku

[DragonFZ]

On 2/15/2023 at 10:47 AM, TheNotoriousEUC said:

……and this is why these wheels are not in danger of becoming mainstream anytime soon 😂. I am starting to think these companies should just send wheels out as ‘build your own’ kits and save on labor. I have looked at what I need for personal safety and possible wheel protection and have taken the latter in consideration when deciding on a wheel. What I have also learned is I will need to budget for a whole new collection of tools and it doesn’t matter the wheel/company with InMotion being *maybe* the lone exception…now. IMO these companies are doing more to hurt their bottom line by not caring about their roll-outs not because people won’t buy them, they clearly will but that group is a small minority. Prices for these wheels are skyrocketing but the build quality is still questionable. It will never fly with the masses and therefore never be mainstream no matter how many commercials they appear in. To be completely honest, I’m okay with that part but I also don’t want to send this thread down that rabbit hole.😉

 

I kinda agree... Mainstream will not get the 40 plus mph wheels. It's like not everyone gets a top end sports car that requires a dedicated mechanic or team. I would think if the manufacturers would update their older wheels. it can go mainstream. Something very portable... 30 to 40 lbs, top speed 20 ish, waterproof with IP rating, under $1000, 30 real miles range, etc. Like a MTen4 but with quality and waterproof.