Do not buy S22 now! Upgraded version coming

[UniVehje]

Do not buy right now and return if you can. Otherwise you’ll be stuck with an outdated and non-functioning wheel. 
 

The current design is ver unreliable and the suspension doesn’t work properly. 
 

These pictures were leaked on KS Telegram channel and show some finalised designs and improvements.

[meepmeepmayer]

The "seven upgrade parts" are nearly everything in a EUC!

At least they are fixing the S22 fully.

[NErider]

Awesome....I just received mine the other day. At least it's got a replacement pinned motor supplied by ewheels and the 40T battery pack.  I wonder if they switched to a new manufacturer or if it is just the pinned version?

[chanman]

Board and hopefully pully slider things can be swapped in. Although I think I'm going to be happy with the 3D printed bearing sliders. Not sure what the motor upgrade is, battery "upgrade" is whatever.

Edited October 10, 2022 by chanman

[NErider]

Ya, my battery has temp monitors, my motor is "good enough" and I'm not being paid to win races on this thing, so the slider upgrade is cool, but I'll survive either way. 

[NErider]

Wait, that says "pulley track" and now I see a pulley and a cable. I'm good with the sliders or an aftermarket roller. 

Edit: It's obviously hard to make out the images. But I'm thinking it's not a cable on the pulley. It's probably a very groove pulley riding in the aluminum track. 

I give them props for thinking outside of the box. It probably works excellent when new, but it's an odd solution. 

Edited October 11, 2022 by NErider
Can't see the picture well.

[techyiam]

5 hours ago, UniVehje said:

These pictures were leaked on KS Telegram channel and show some finalised designs and improvements.

Now we are talking. Some real effort to genuinely improve the S22. The upgrading include all the four major areas: motor, controller, battery/BMS, and suspension. 

Although, I can't make out how the dust proofing works for the sliders. It does look like it is a real attempt to resolve the issue.

I hope Kingsong does indeed fix all the issues and fulfills the promises made at launch, and thus gives us a great wheel that is slotted between the V12 and the suspension heavy weights.

 

Edited October 11, 2022 by techyiam

[gon2fast]

Other than the slider pulley I am not seeing any new functionality, just promises that they will check the components better. 

If they could bump the wheel up to 2700-3000Wh config then I would be interested, they could even paint it gold for all I care LOL.

[techyiam]

34 minutes ago, gon2fast said:

Other than the slider pulley I am not seeing any new functionality, just promises that they will check the components better. 

If they could bump the wheel up to 2700-3000Wh config then I would be interested, they could even paint it gold for all I care LOL.

In the text of the slider image, it mentioned improved smoothness of the slide rails.

In the text of the controller board image, it briefly mentioned "increasing power".

In the text of the motor image, it mentioned the improvement of motor power.

There was also safety features improvements mentioned. 

It's very vague, but we can be cautiously optimistic. 

The original preorders of the S20 did well. So there was a demand for what was promised. 

But if they were to change specs to increase capability, Kingsong should put out a S22 LR (long range), Grand Eagle, and go after the Sherman-S. 

Edited October 11, 2022 by techyiam

[mrelwood]

A firmware update increased the model number but this overhaul doesn't?? 

[DjPanJan]

Anybody have serial number format for S22 i need to know how recognize good batches. 

Or is just that simply = all S20 fireball edition + S22 created before 10.10.2022 is dangerous electronic devices?

[supercurio]

From a discussion with King Song engineering:

• New mainboard is compatible with old motor and BMS
• Suspension "pulley track" (as shown) purpose is dust proofing. It is not a replacement for the slider system
• 3rd party 3D printed or CNC roller suspension upgrades are still expected to be compatible with this new S22

I am trying to convince King Song to offer an upgrade package for current owners, with the ability to buy the new mainboard, as the original one doesn't have a good reliability track record.
It would be wise for them to offer the option, since for some owners, the immediate reaction to the announcement was to make their original board fail in order to obtain an upgrade.

[chanman]

Thanks for the context @supercurio, would love to see the updated boards made available so I don't feel like I need to send my just arrived S22 back, and I think I will go head with my planned slider mods then. Any chance you have details on the motors, whether that's something new or related to the stator pin fix?

[supercurio]

@chanman I'm on the same boat, with an older "new" wheel that waited for replacement parts for almost all its existence. I can't return it, but it is tempting to sell, and buy later, if it's still worth it.

I'm happy this S22 has been a platform to enable collaboration between dealers and create a relationship with King Song. However as a consumer, it's the most expensive worse thing I ever purchased in my life.

 

Info from discussions with KS engineering about the new motor:

New motor will be more "powerful"
It means that although it will have the same Kv rating, therefore same torque vs speed parameters, it will heat up less.
The motor alone should indeed provide a bit more torque due to better efficiency, and mileage will increase as well - although maybe not in any measurable amount.
Mostly: the motor overheating observed by heavier riders during sustained climbing should be reduced (by how much is unknown)

Visual render is inaccurate
The motor is still hollow bore, however its "shaft" (translated from Chinese) is larger.

Supplier is not ZX anymore. The new factory is not identified for now.
Weight of the new motor TBD.
Compatibility with current suspension frame: TBD

(no extraordinary info compared to what the presentation says, but: trying to be a bit less marketing, more technical)

Edited October 11, 2022 by supercurio

[wstuart]

17 hours ago, techyiam said:

In the text of the slider image, it mentioned improved smoothness of the slide rails.

In the text of the controller board image, it briefly mentioned "increasing power".

In the text of the motor image, it mentioned the improvement of motor power.

There was also safety features improvements mentioned. 

It's very vague, but we can be cautiously optimistic. 

The original preorders of the S20 did well. So there was a demand for what was promised. 

But if they were to change specs to increase capability, Kingsong should put out a S22 LR (long range), Grand Eagle, and go after the Sherman-S. 

I'm hoping that the changes to the board will allow them to be more aggressive with how the system applies power. 

[wstuart]

9 hours ago, supercurio said:

From a discussion with King Song engineering:

• New mainboard is compatible with old motor and BMS
• Suspension "pulley track" (as shown) purpose is dust proofing. It is not a replacement for the slider system
• 3rd party 3D printed or CNC roller suspension upgrades are still expected to be compatible with this new S22

This might be just enough to get me to cancel my Master pre order (I originally ordered an s22).  I'm looking for a dedicated offroad suspension wheel.  Improvements to the power and reliability of the motor/board along with sliders that require less maintenance could win me over.  If Kingsong can elaborate on this in the next 2 weeks (show video) they'll win my purchase back.

[wstuart]

3 hours ago, supercurio said:

@chanman 

I'm happy this S22 has been a platform to enable collaboration between dealers and create a relationship with King Song. However as a consumer, it's the most expensive worse thing I ever purchased in my life.

Very well stated

[wstuart]

...... one more thing.... black out the colors.  It will look so much better

[techyiam]

1 hour ago, wstuart said:

I'm hoping that the changes to the board will allow them to be more aggressive with how the system applies power. 

Although, it is presented in a vague manner, it does come across to me that they are basically performing a do over. It makes no sense to have done this, and not resolve the lack of torque problem at low speeds.

Edited October 11, 2022 by techyiam

[meepmeepmayer]

15 minutes ago, techyiam said:

they are basically performing a do over

That is definitely necessary, and seems to be what they are doing.

KS should call it the S23 or something now. They can even make the excuse that it's the new 2023 variant.

[techyiam]

2 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

KS should call it the S23 or something now. They can even make the excuse that it's the new 2023 variant.

If it was Begode, it would have gotten a model name.

[wstuart]

7 minutes ago, techyiam said:

If it was Begode, it would have gotten a model name.

I don't know about that....... the Master is on its 3rd board design, 2nd battery design and second suspension version and it's still got the same name. 

 

Now that I think about it..... it seems like every wheel released in the last 2 years needed a redo.  Maybe the Sherman didn't "need" it but the MAX fixed some issues.  Max doesn't count because it was a redo.

Maybe the EXN was OK, but one could argue it was a redo of the EX.

[techyiam]

3 minutes ago, wstuart said:

I don't know about that....... the Master is on its 3rd board design, 2nd battery design and second suspension version and it's still got the same name.

You may have a point. There were some significant changes happening, and they happened fast.

For suspension improvements, I was thinking more along the line between the Master, and the T4,  for example. Basically, everybody agreed that the suspension is better on the T4. And now they are saying the Master Pro even has a more compliant suspension than the T4. So it seems significant improvement happen on newer released wheels. 

[Tawpie]

2 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

KS should call it the S23 or something now. They can even make the excuse that it's the new 2023 variant.

it is the anniversary edition, to be sold only during the anniversary.

I don't understand why anyone is excited or encouraged by vague marketing renders with ineptly translated 'descriptions' that appeared on a google drive.

Hopefully they're changing motor vendors. Hopefully the new vendor is actually better than ZX (there's no guarantee of that—ZX was fine until S20/22/T4). Hopefully they're doing something so that the driver boards won't die if the wheel tips over. Hopefully keeping dust out of the slider channels will reduce the amount of maintenance. If it's all true, none of that seems worthy of a new model designation, it's just fixes for the S22.

Gold paint though... that makes it a Leaper/Jumper Eagle for sure.

(I just want them to get the kinks worked out of S22, it's very close to being the wheel I wanted so very badly... last year)

[wstuart]

1 hour ago, techyiam said:

You may have a point. There were some significant changes happening, and they happened fast.

For suspension improvements, I was thinking more along the line between the Master, and the T4,  for example. Basically, everybody agreed that the suspension is better on the T4. And now they are saying the Master Pro even has a more compliant suspension than the T4. So it seems significant improvement happen on newer released wheels. 

Yup, If they offered the Master with the t4 100mm suspension travel I wouldn't even be considering an s27......

 

Likewise if Kingsong can prove they have more low speed torque and a suspension that won't squeak after 5 minutes on dirt, I will cancel my current Master pre order with ewheels.

 

I just need a wheel with offroad capable suspension AND torque!  Whoever builds it first can take my money......

Edited October 12, 2022 by wstuart