Do not buy S22 now! Upgraded version coming

[jtm94]

On 10/12/2022 at 1:52 AM, mrelwood said:

The V11 only needed bearing covers though.

They also had dying motherboard + taillight issues in some versions. The real kicker is that the V11 shocks are still abysmal. I know several V11 owners personally and they all have shock issues. This still hasn't been addressed and the V11 has been out for 2.5 years?

 

I'm surprised Kingsong took this long to address the awful stock suspension sliders.... Seems like such an obvious issue and a simple one to solve at that.

Edited October 15, 2022 by jtm94

[sunstrong]

22 hours ago, jtm94 said:

I'm surprised Kingsong took this long to address the awful stock suspension sliders.... Seems like such an obvious issue and a simple one to solve at that.

Probably because they already made the sliders and don’t want to waste them. Just like the S18! According to Ecodrift, the hollow motor and better sliders were already developed last year but because there are so many left over in the warehouse they are only starting to sell those now.

[techyiam]

1 hour ago, sunstrong said:

Probably because they already made the sliders and don’t want to waste them. Just like the S18! According to Ecodrift, the hollow motor and better sliders were already developed last year but because there are so many left over in the warehouse they are only starting to sell those now.

More reasons to buy later batches.

The issue here is that in order for the manufacturers to get a certain price, they must place a minimum size order.

[wstuart]

So when is this gonna happen?!

I would really like to switch back to the s29 but I'm about to buy a Master.  For me to switch back to kingsong I would need to know when this is available

 

[mrelwood]

13 minutes ago, wstuart said:

So when is this gonna happen?!

I would really like to switch back to the s29 but I'm about to buy a Master.  For me to switch back to kingsong I would need to know when this is available

They are both such disasters at the moment, that I wouldn't put any money on either right now. (Read on the respective threads for details.) I'd wait for the ShermS, just in case it would at least function for the intended purpose on arrival.

[GothamMike]

On 10/16/2022 at 1:56 AM, techyiam said:

More reasons to buy later batches.

The issue here is that in order for the manufacturers to get a certain price, they must place a minimum size order.

It is very confusing right now, every few weeks a new model comes out. But they cannot make wheels fast enough, so we are stuck for a while.

[techyiam]

6 minutes ago, GothamMike said:

so we are stuck for a while.

+1 on that.

I am not willing to buy a wheel that is a lemon.

Edited October 24, 2022 by techyiam

[GothamMike]

Someone 'splain to me why the sliders are such an issue? You'd think a better skate bearing with a better "slider tire" would fix this.

 

[mrelwood]

2 hours ago, GothamMike said:

Someone 'splain to me why the sliders are such an issue? You'd think a better skate bearing with a better "slider tire" would fix this.

And it does. Any roller with a bearing does. But the original doesn’t have any bearings or rollers. Just frictiony pieces of plastic sliding up and down.

 Having to fix such fundamental design errors yourself on a new expensive wheel is an issue.

[jtm94]

You don't even need rollers. You can just use a better plastic with less tight tolerances and it will work beautifully. Bearings have nothing to do with it.

[mrelwood]

2 hours ago, jtm94 said:

You don't even need rollers. You can just use a better plastic with less tight tolerances and it will work beautifully. Bearings have nothing to do with it.

Is this something you’ve tried, or a guess? What I’ve learned from the V11 is that loose sliding bits do not decrease the friction, they only introduce slack. And when the wheel shell gets to bounce around at bumps due to the slack, the suspension feels harsh. And they even bind more while accelerating. Installing a system with bearing rollers made the ride smooth on a way another level. The S22 slider design works with the same basic principle, and everything I’ve read and experienced about the roller sliders vs the originals support this as well.

 You can loosen the bars that hold the sliding bits on the S22 to get rid of any static binding, which can help. But the rollers are on a different level of smooth suspension action completely.

[MetricUSA]

23 hours ago, GothamMike said:

Someone 'splain to me why the sliders are such an issue? You'd think a better skate bearing with a better "slider tire" would fix this.

 

This explains everything...

https://youtu.be/xo5GwXnZXhE

In the mean time contact 

info@szkingsong.com

and demand an recall of all bad sliders and replace with roller sliders... 

Demand a recall of all bad motors....

And don't use over spec 340 kg springs!!!!

Did I forget anything??? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[kiitick]

I don't think the sliders are an issue. They would be, if you weigh less that 90 kilo, but for us heavier riders, they work like they're supposed to. Not saying there's not room for improvement, but I've done upgrades on every wheel. My s18, v12, Sherman and v11 both came with crappy pedals, I had to upgrade them. I had to buy pads to get them comfortable. That's extra money that I put in to make it function better. Same with the sliders on the s22. I've actually had to invest significantly less on the s22, because stock stuff is so much better. Didn't have to buy a seat, pads, pedals, higher amp charger, etc. I've pretty much stopped riding other wheels at this point, because it's the most comfortable ride I've ever had. With the new motors, this is my dream wheel. Under 50 kilos weight, 100 kilometer range with my fat butt going 30 kmph. No voltage sag, because it has high discharge cells, from ewheels. First wheel that I feel is truly use friendly enough to replace the motor myself, only took 2 hours. I would actually encourage you to buy one.

[MetricUSA]

Kiitick you choose to replace perfectly fine pedels as on upgrade... These friction slides are a fundamental part of the wheel!!! All the other suspension wheels including Kingsong s18 uses rod and bushing slides for a god damn reason!!! IT WORKS!!! WHY in hell is kingsong now trying to reinvent the time held slide!!! Even plastic mold bases use rod and bushing!!! So WTF?!? 

[kiitick]

11 hours ago, MetricUSA said:

Kiitick you choose to replace perfectly fine pedels as on upgrade... These friction slides are a fundamental part of the wheel!!! All the other suspension wheels including Kingsong s18 uses rod and bushing slides for a god damn reason!!! IT WORKS!!! WHY in hell is kingsong now trying to reinvent the time held slide!!! Even plastic mold bases use rod and bushing!!! So WTF?!? 

A fundamental part that works as intended. The pedals WEREN'T perfectly fine, they didn't fit my feet, I had zero grip.  WHY DO THEY KEEP SELLING WHEELS WITHOUT SPIKED PEDALS!! SPIKED PEDALS JUST WORK BETTER. (that's my sarcastic voice.)

  Just because a car doesn't meet YOUR usage requirements doesn't mean that a truck is the ONLY fundamental thing that works. I was very clear about usage. I think to each their own. I'll continue to ride, and enjoy riding. 

[Tawpie]

13 hours ago, MetricUSA said:

WHY in hell is kingsong now trying to reinvent the time held slide!!!

Second guessing them of course, but I think that they found the S18 to be too difficult to manufacture cheaply, and they were faced with a very wide wheel and needed to try something to slim it down. If you think about it, plastic bushings riding on metal is what classical stanchions use, KS just changed the shapes. The things they got wrong were the "grease/glue" coupled with the open design that let in grit. And they didn't fully appreciate that we expected our Baja truck to ride like a Citreön.

It's really neat that clever and determined makers are coming up with possible solutions—ones that aren't that much more expensive than a set of Clark fairings, without pads. The jury is still out on those designs but they show a lot of promise and that to me is a very good sign indeed!

Yeah, we should have gotten all we were promised and more of what we imagined. They set expectations very high and we took them up a notch or three. Disappointment was virtually guaranteed. And if we're not used to batch1 control board problems, and battery problems, motor and bearing problems by now, we deserve to be disappointed even more. I'm not defending this release, it's as bad and unlucky and poorly handled as it gets and KS needs to up their game in a lot of areas.

I'm just saying that we are wanting quite a bit from a niche product category and haven't been willing to pay the piper. One year ago 3200USD for a wheel was outrageous, 4000USD for a Hero was just silly. Today, MasPro, ShermS and Challenger are teaching us the lesson: if you want the moon, it's going to cost ya.

[MetricUSA]

Bullshit every begode uses rod and bushing, it literally is the cheapest form of slide, immotion uses rod and bushing, every motorcycle and mountain bike uses rod and bushing in the front forks... Good God we got a bunch of deniers living in lala land.... 

[meepmeepmayer]

No fighting here please. You can disagree civilly about how awful the latest manufacturer shenanigans are

[DragonFZ]

This is all good. Chinese manufacturers not knowing, Marketing 101, Refine and Development engineering, and Material Science. All package together in this information age, where a community of early adapters get to contribute and innovate. If it was a completely finished product, we wouldn't get this type of experience and the wheel would cost a lot more than the current pricing.

I agree with this " One year ago 3200USD for a wheel was outrageous, 4000USD for a Hero was just silly."  Back then, we were still measuring the price of the wheel by how much WH in the battery packs. The Hero was an answer for a better material, better built demand from the community. I told myself I would never buy a $4000 wheel. Now, I've 2 on pre-order.