I did warn everyone two month ago: "S20 stop riding warning, global failure"

[meriwald]

26 minutes ago, Cerbera said:

Have you seen the latest teardown of Batch 3 Masters ? It is looking increasingly like they are giving too few fucks about production either, AND constantly changing their minds about design ! KingSong might be at it as well, but it certainly isn't just them, and I suspect Begode don't necessarily entirely deserve the pedestal you place them upon...

This teardown is funny ) cutouts in yoga brick as a headlight cover ))🤣🤣 such a gotway

[Tawpie]

6 minutes ago, meriwald said:

Info about "gotway tells to replace battery every year" comes from Ewheels. And no one is questioning this for some reason

Actually, it was originally from GW themselves. The original notice is somewhere here in the forum.

[Cerbera]

50 minutes ago, meriwald said:

This teardown is funny

There are funny BITS  The laughing stops when they forget to solder the damn motor wires !!!

[enaon]

there is already a thread on this, please merge:
 

 

[Funky]

13 minutes ago, enaon said:

there is already a thread on this, please merge:
 

 

???

Edit: Ahh i see what you did there. 

Edited September 2, 2022 by Funky

[meriwald]

21 minutes ago, Cerbera said:

There are funny BITS  The laughing stops when they forget to solder the damn motor wires !!!

Yes, that's why as soon as you get new wheel , you open and check everything. Soldering that back is 1 min job, not a big deal.

But yeah... If that comes off in motion..

I would never trust any of these guys, no matter what brand. All wheels have to be regularly inspected.

[alcatraz]

Early adoption can be risky. Stick to proven wheels for tinker-free miles. Even if you have to wait a bit to get suspension and whatnot.

[MetricUSA]

All you have to do is add shimms to the stator... What's the problem??? 🤷

[meriwald]

5 hours ago, MetricUSA said:

All you have to do is add shimms to the stator... What's the problem??? 🤷

Problem called KingSong

I don't get how people bit that bait with s20. They've been know for always slow, after 60% very slow,  sub 84v, when others doing wheels 24s for years, always less power, less speed, no drive at all, all their wheels were complete suckers, annoying talking bulshit from their speakers. Having that history someone actually believed they going to brake through with 134 v, suspension, all that stuff.?🤣🤣 Selling directly on Facebook from the factory, no dealers? Fffuck that was suspicious,  when before they were super protective and lecture everyone how dealers network is important so we going to LOCK your wheels because you bought them on Alibaba.

Everyone who supporting this company with money is giving OK for the whole industry that doing all these wheels locking, holding money for a year and shipping a piece of faulty crap.

Everyone who gives them money is hurting people who lost their hard earned thousands of dollars, those who whose wheels got locked. 

Why reasons that wheels were locked were forgotten for a s20? Dealers no more important for kingsong? No, they just wanted to grab your money. S20 is such a scam

Honestly the only way you buy this if you are a duck. Please see a duck picure attached

[meriwald]

Quack quack quack I buy KingSong

 

[meriwald]

1 hour ago, Forwardnbak said:

i kinda wondered if the plan to freight faulty motors via sea was just KS design to buy another month of time. 

Surely if they wanted dealers happy and riders rolling without issue they would eat some freight cost.

Many delays with KS announcements this whole way. 3rd party battery report?

I had a replacement motor sent to my dealer and the replacement date was pre July (I had just heard of the July fix then)

Maybe they weren’t aware of the issue when they sent it? 

 

A regular on my channel just reported a cut out with no warning, nearly broke leg.

His confidence is gone and he wants refund.

Shame. 

They were aware of all problems, but time was pushing, they needed to realease before gotway so they pushed this. Hoping buyer will eat it, and buyer did , instead of massive refunds we see obedient "waiting for parts and solution"

The motor and controller issues were found very early but they just shush everyone, because most of the wheels were sold not through dealers but through direct sale sales manager/community so there is no legal agreement and obligation to honor any warranty. So they made early discoverers of these problems to shut up and wait for parts.

Instead of solving problems, s20 was supplied to bunch of YouTubers along with promo agreemens, where everyone was complimenting and "enjoying" their renaimed s20. But when you actually take this shit to the trail it gives up on the first hill or even root. Shut off overtorque margins are so terrible, it barely has any torque.

When I posted on Reddit about massive controller issues my 5 posts were taken down and one was closed for comments same day. Moderator dude asked me to provide "proofs", I asked what kind of proofs is he looking for, I got no answer. Coming to conclusion that not only youbers were sponsored but also euc subReddit mods. And if you think they are too dumb in China to reach that far, they may be dumb but they hired a person who does it for them.

[meriwald]

4 hours ago, SamSuffit said:

It really looks like Kingsong wanted to hide it under the carpet, if they really fix it since July. There was no communication about it.

And I hope it is true, but my confidence in the company is eroding. After the battery debacle with the "smart" BMS only fixed by software (cheaper), the sliders which need a do it yourself solution, this hidden motor issue fixed by ...more glue?...it is a lot to accept and believe on a 1 wheel device.

I hope more and more people will wake up. Start looking into history and facts. Im watching this shit rolling starting from LockSong times and I cant just be silent. People go over my posts and call me names about kingsong hater and so on. I dont give a fuck about ks, too much honor for them. What makes me mad is that people can't see this bulshit going on and accepting all this. I don't want euc industry to be like that, I don't want kingsong practices to be generally accepted and allowed, fuck that. And thanks for pointing out to fake smart BMS. I'll add this to my list heehhe 😈

[Rawnei]

52 minutes ago, meriwald said:

Instead of solving problems, s20 was supplied to bunch of YouTubers along with promo agreemens, where everyone was complimenting and "enjoying" their renaimed s20. But when you actually take this shit to the trail it gives up on the first hill or even root. Shut off overtorque margins are so terrible, it barely has any torque.

You are either delusional believing all the misinformation you are spreading or you're consciously trolling, either way I can't see what you are gaining from repeating the same shit over and over.

[UniVehje]

1 hour ago, meriwald said:

Quack quack quack I buy KingSong

What are you trying to achieve with this kind of posting? It just makes you look like a person who cannot control their emotions. 

Please go ahead and use this thread to bash Kingsong and get the anger out of your system. Leave these kinds of posts out of it. No reason to attack other forum members. You are not helping your cause with these kinds of posts. And please keep the KingSong bashing also on this thread and don't spread any unconfirmed claims. 

We all know how bad the industry is and about the flaws of the manufacturers. This forum is for users to share informed knowledge and help each other troubleshooting. A personal vendetta and misinformation is not helping. Please let it go. 

[Funky]

2 hours ago, meriwald said:

I hope more and more people will wake up. Start looking into history and facts. Im watching this shit rolling starting from LockSong times and I cant just be silent. People go over my posts and call me names about kingsong hater and so on. I dont give a fuck about ks, too much honor for them. What makes me mad is that people can't see this bulshit going on and accepting all this. I don't want euc industry to be like that, I don't want kingsong practices to be generally accepted and allowed, fuck that. And thanks for pointing out to fake smart BMS. I'll add this to my list heehhe 😈

Same thing can be said about gotway... Fanboys be fanboys.  (But i can admit that gotway is doing much, much better, than in past. And S20/22 is simply shity wheel.)

We buyers don't look really at firm that made the EUC. I personally hate all goways wheels - because they simply had the worst water protection. (The older wheels especially, where mobo/heatsink sit sideways.) And new wheels still have that issue.

Most new wheels 1-3 batch will have some kind a problem. Inmotion - still having issues with V11/12. Kingsong just failed harder than others this time.  

Edited September 6, 2022 by Funky

[meriwald]

4 hours ago, Rawnei said:

You are either delusional believing all the misinformation you are spreading or you're consciously trolling, either way I can't see what you are gaining from repeating the same shit over and over.

Thx for noticing it's the same shit over and over.

[meriwald]

4 hours ago, UniVehje said:

What are you trying to achieve with this kind of posting? It just makes you look like a person who cannot control their emotions. 

Please go ahead and use this thread to bash Kingsong and get the anger out of your system. Leave these kinds of posts out of it. No reason to attack other forum members. You are not helping your cause with these kinds of posts. And please keep the KingSong bashing also on this thread and don't spread any unconfirmed claims. 

We all know how bad the industry is and about the flaws of the manufacturers. This forum is for users to share informed knowledge and help each other troubleshooting. A personal vendetta and misinformation is not helping. Please let it go. 

The difference here with unconfirmed claims and confirmed claims is a few month usually. I'll wait like I waited with controllers for s20.

I think it's pretty helpful, less people think that good looking s20 in between some blogger legs is a good idea to follow, less people get themselves in trouble.

I can back up any words I'm saying here. But again, if you are throwing my posts like that and call it misinformation, does it all worth my breath then ? You can enjoy it they way it goes I guess.

Because what you offering is I should slowly and kindly, wrap my words around how kingsong is evel, crying here and there, carefully speak only on "confirmed" by you claims, and say ta ta ta how bad it is. Fuck that, I say straight what I see and no need anyone approval to speak up, thank you.

In the end of the day you shouldn't expect to achieve anything with the most reasonable and well documented, posts about problems, like the thread with rotor sliping. You can think you are, but China doesn't care. The only way they speak is money. So stop giving them money.

That's what I'm calling for - massive, global returns of s20 as a defective, item not as described, faulty on arrival, etc. And stop crying your long stories about it, and vote with your dollar, then they will hear.

[meriwald]

9 minutes ago, supercurio said:

King Song decided to have an internal team focusing on this motor issue

Any proofs of that? Sounds like misinformation to me. Like PR statement from the college book, rather than real action  ks is a small company, they literally have 4-5 people who is actually able to deal with it. How can you dedicate a team when all you have is 5 people to dedicate )) what is it, a team of 2?  Because 3 already dedicated to controller issue?🤣

As some smart users already said here, shims need to be installed to stop the issue. To understand that there is no need for dedicated "internal team" and focusing on anything.

So this update, not sure what is the source , sounds more like: no no don't return, wait once again!

They may come up with quick firmware upgrade for that) like they did with "smart BMS" or make it a part of regular maintenance, when you have to open the motor and twist it back one in a while 😄 just wait for it , dedicated team is working hard

[Funky]

14 minutes ago, meriwald said:

The difference here with unconfirmed claims and confirmed claims is a few month usually. I'll wait like I waited with controllers for s20.

I think it's pretty helpful, less people think that good looking s20 in between some blogger legs is a good idea to follow, less people get themselves in trouble.

I can back up any words I'm saying here. But again, if you are throwing my posts like that and call it misinformation, does it all worth my breath then ? You can enjoy it they way it goes I guess.

Because what you offering is I should slowly and kindly, wrap my words around how kingsong is evel, crying here and there, carefully speak only on "confirmed" by you claims, and say ta ta ta how bad it is. Fuck that, I say straight what I see and no need anyone approval to speak up, thank you.

In the end of the day you shouldn't expect to achieve anything with the most reasonable and well documented, posts about problems, like the thread with rotor sliping. You can think you are, but China doesn't care. The only way they speak is money. So stop giving them money.

That's what I'm calling for - massive, global returns of s20 as a defective, item not as described, faulty on arrival, etc. And stop crying your long stories about it, and vote with your dollar, then they will hear.

I'm already voting with $$$.  All new wheels that have been released past 3 years, have been shit in my eyes. (Two big, to heavy, to bad built quality.)

All gotways wheels have water ingress problems, also the dangling wires and two-side taped "decorative" pads, that come loose often. Master/T4 battery casing being made of plastic - meaning they are very fragile. All inmotion wheels are more or less "duds". As they still are having problems with V11/12. The s20/22 suspension is a joke - open frame suspension, where grease mix with sand and over time becomes sandpaper, ruining the sliders themselves. Also sand going in there the suspension will feel "clunky" not smooth. (Enjoy fixing the suspension/replacing the sliders 2-4x times a year.) S18 had to "small" battery pack and wasn't so "safe" to ride.

EX20S is one of better built wheel. Yet it also have zero waterproofing. And is one of most heavy wheels. (Automatically crap in my eyes.)

When i saw the S20/22 sliders - i said "Fuck that". And haven't looked at it since. Because it's simply crap of a wheel.

 

I'm still waiting for awesome wheel.

Wheel with all metal frame - frame that hold everything together. Real smart BMS. Max speed ~60km/h (~37mph). Range 50-80km (31-50miles). Weight 20-25kg (44-55lbs). Waterproof motor/motherboard/batteries IPX-5/6/7.

But sadly i don't see that happening. Because wheels are getting bigger, more heavy, more expensive. Yet same time build quality goes to shit. (All released wheels past 3 years again..)

 

I could keep going same as you are. But i'm not making treads crying about it. (I did that here in your tread. So you don't feel alone.)

 

[meriwald]

😁 Thx man, I don't feel alone) plenty of people can read the market and see what is going on, it's clear as day. This forum is not something defining:) people can have as many purple badges and stars as they want but does it really mean anything?😄

There is a big difference in issues with gotway and kingsong here. When I open ALL my gotway wheels, which I had around 12-15 over 6 years, I'm getting terrified every time. Assembling quality is so low, so careless. Needs a lot of work to safely ride it. Pinched wires, holes for water, misaligned shells,, lack of solder on main components. Really endless list, and every time new surprises. BUT there is nothing you cant solve by yourself. Yes, you need to spend 20hr checking everything, waterproofing, soldering connectors, organizating wires, but it's possible and doesn't require super skill or some unbelievable equipment to do that. It doesn't feel right paying so much money and having to fix all defects, but first of all.we are early adopters and second - I love working on my wheels It's like a part of experience, upgrade, add capacitors, change axle to hardened steel, upgrade to lifted hangers, improve cooling system in a cool way and be proud of it , waterproof it and ride with no worries. At this point if all that will be taken away from me, I'm not sure I can enjoy gotway anymore )))) 

But when kingsong or inmo ships you shit like these motors and faulty boards this is a serious . You can't solve it with zip-ties, soldering and some silicone. That's fucked up.

[Funky]

10 minutes ago, meriwald said:

😁 Thx man, I don't feel alone) plenty of people can read the market and see what is going on, it's clear as day. This forum is not something defining:) people can have as many purple badges and stars as they want but does it really mean anything?😄

There is a big difference in issues with gotway and kingsong here. When I open ALL my gotway wheels, which I had around 12-15 over 6 years, I'm getting terrified every time. Assembling quality is so low, so careless. Needs a lot of work to safely ride it. Pinched wires, holes for water, misaligned shells,, lack of solder on main components. Really endless list, and every time new surprises. BUT there is nothing you cant solve by yourself. Yes, you need to spend 20hr checking everything, waterproofing, soldering connectors, organizating wires, but it's possible and doesn't require super skill or some unbelievable equipment to do that. It doesn't feel right paying so much money and having to fix all defects, but first of all.we are early adopters and second - I love working on my wheels It's like a part of experience, upgrade, add capacitors, change axle to hardened steel, upgrade to lifted hangers, improve cooling system in a cool way and be proud of it , waterproof it and ride with no worries. At this point if all that will be taken away from me, I'm not sure I can enjoy gotway anymore )))) 

But when kingsong or inmo ships you shit like these motors and faulty boards this is a serious . You can't solve it with zip-ties, soldering and some silicone. That's fucked up.

For the prices we are paying, all that should be done at factory. I bet most users aren't openething the damn thing - to simply "work" on it... I didn't enjoy changing tire, or "waterproofing" the wheel. If i had the option of not going inside at all, i would take that.

And we aren't really early adopters anymore. (Only when new wheel gets released..) But there is already "somewhat" set standards. That we expect from a new wheel.

Edited September 6, 2022 by Funky

[meriwald]

21 minutes ago, supercurio said:

I understand the skepticism. The person I talked at KS showed good results in making things happen internally so far.
It can't be seen since there was no public result yet, so that's why I'm sharing updates here, for stuff that's hopefully relevant.

A few in the Russian community started to look into solutions to prevent the stator to slide without having to replace the full motor, or until they can get replacement motors. They might try some and I'm looking forward what they come up with, although it's probably out of lack of confidence that the problem will be solved in a timely manner.
I'm not sure the solution you propose here is practical however. Realistically, motors presenting the defect will need to be replaced and that's about it.

But, you'e talking to the source here, it's me. Hello 👋

So when you say " I'm the source", it out of the question legit. But when I post something its called misinformation and gets moved to a detention thread.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying yours words are not true, I'm glad you sharing here your knowledge from internal source. I'm just trying to understand how that works here ))

And I would appreciate less formal PR style touched up statement, because as I said before, there is no team to dedicate. They are aware of the problem from long time ago, I know from my source, and it's not a surprse for them to start making a "dedicated team" right now. So it does sound like PR stunt rather than a real action. Yes, of course they thinking how to fix it, by why liying about dedicated team and making it sound like they just discovered it now and urgently doing something?

[Cerbera]

36 minutes ago, Funky said:

or the prices we are paying, all that should be done at factory. I bet most users aren't opening the damn thing - to simply "work" on it... I didn't enjoy changing tire, or "waterproofing" the wheel. If i had the option of not going inside at all, i would take that.

Very hard to disagree with that. I think it must be a testament to just how much fun these things are to ride when working, (and the lack of any safer alternative options) that we are prepared to put up with this level of sketchiness. And of course not all of us are ! But I don't think that those of us that are prepared to deal with it like that this is the case, or that the pricing of these things is at the level where this shit really should be done for you, yet isn't !!  And yet sometime it is ! It's the random luck saloon...

Edited September 6, 2022 by Cerbera

[meriwald]

3 minutes ago, Funky said:

For the prices we are paying, all that should be done at factory. I bet most users aren't openething the damn thing - to simply "work" on it... I didn't enjoy changing tire, or "waterproofing" the wheel. If i had the option of not going inside at all, i would take that.

And we aren't really early adopters anymore. (Only when new wheel gets released..)

I still think we are early users here. Look, there were no 100v and up bldc motor controllers before, gotway created from scratch, they have real bright minded engineers and own pcb line, so from schematics to a ready boards everything is done in house. That's the most valuable part of the wheel, everything else wouldn't be possible without creating a reliable high current, high voltage bldc controller. That's really impressive and I can forgive them other things, appreciate real innovation here. 

[Cerbera]

Remember that before there were nice safe bicycles there were Penny Farthings. And our nice safe modern bikes also still crash, just less often.

 

Getting the wobbles, 18th century style...

Before there were nice safe aeroplanes there were all sorts of lunatics and their mental contraptions held together with string and sellotape trying to get airborne. A lot of boats sank before they made ones that didn't so much. I see EUCs as very much following the same sort of trajectory, and as much as Gotway et al deserve some criticism for a certain level of devil-may-care attitude to QC they also deserve equal praise for being the innovators they undoubtably are. As much as they annoy and frustrate me sometimes I am also enormously grateful to them that we have machines like this in my lifetime - it's the nearest thing I'm gonna get to a hoverboard, and I don't ever really lose sight of how lucky I am to even have the chance to do this and crash !

Edited November 16, 2022 by Cerbera