I did warn everyone two month ago: "S20 stop riding warning, global failure"

[meriwald]

4 hours ago, supercurio said:

Context for those with no experience in this type of environment, about teams:

Again, nice theoretical book paragraph there. That's not what they doing though. Yeap, walking from office to office, calling on zoom, going on meetings 🤣))) what they doing is closer to classic "let me ask our engineer" meme phrase they learned to tell to foreigners when there is no answer :))

It's great you have such a connections at ks! Even English speaking, nice. I have English speaking source too(with google translate mostly hahah), and I tell you don't be flattered too much and feel too privileged about it, they just play you.

 

[NSFW]

8 hours ago, meriwald said:

So when you say " I'm the source", it out of the question legit. But when I post something its called misinformation and gets moved to a detention thread.

Because he came with a clear description of the problem, and he stayed focused on it. That makes it easy to take him seriously.

Whereas you showed up with non-specific FUD and then oscillated between hating on "LockSong" and praising Gotway. That made it hard for anyone take you seriously.

If you want to be taken seriously in the future, you can learn from what you just observed, and adjust your behavior accordingly.

Or, you can just keep doing what you've been doing, and keep on getting the same results you've been getting.

What happens next is entirely up to you.

Edited September 6, 2022 by NSFW
typo

[alcatraz]

I'd let the OP be frustrated and tell the story without counter attack.

If Kingsong had a perfect track record and you try a gotway and it breaks immediately, I totally understand your desire to shit all over it.

People forget there are lots of wheels out there. You're going to encounter someone that has had a great experience with a controversial brand, sooner or later. And you're going to encounter someone that has had an awful experience with a more trusted brand. Sure, it's a minority, but is that a reason to shut them down?

[UniVehje]

4 hours ago, alcatraz said:

I'd let the OP be frustrated and tell the story without counter attack.

If Kingsong had a perfect track record and you try a gotway and it breaks immediately, I totally understand your desire to shit all over it.

People forget there are lots of wheels out there. You're going to encounter someone that has had a great experience with a controversial brand, sooner or later. And you're going to encounter someone that has had an awful experience with a more trusted brand. Sure, it's a minority, but is that a reason to shut them down?

He was just asked to stay on this thread and not mess another more focused thread. This thread has value and discussion on KS failure is welcome. They sure failed badly and deserve some bad reputation. Locking wheels remotely, S18 linkages and now this S22 fiasco. 
 

Personally I would also warn anyone thinking about getting the S22 to stay away for now. Buying it at the moment just brings more work and loss to the dealers and DIY work for themselves. For KS the only negative outcome from rushing this wheel seems to be this kind of negative reputation. It’s not confirmed yet, but there are rumors that they might be slow shipping the spare motors to dealers and thus making riders wait for 1-2 months or forcing dealers to pay the cost of air shipping. I’d like to see this being expensive only to KS so that they learn to do better next time. I do understand the frustration very well as I’m also right now out of 3000€ and just got to enjoy the wheel for two weeks. Now waiting for indefinite amount of time to get it back and missing the rest of riding season. 

[meriwald]

9 hours ago, NSFW said:

Because he came with a clear description of the problem, and he stayed focused on it. That makes it easy to take him seriously.

Whereas you showed up with non-specific FUD and then oscillated between hating on "LockSong" and praising Gotway. That made it hard for anyone take you seriously.

If you want to be taken seriously in the future, you can learn from what you just observed, and adjust your behavior accordingly.

Or, you can just keep doing what you've been doing, and keep on getting the same results you've been getting.

What happens next is entirely up to you.

Thx for the advice. I can see you wish me only good. Appreciate it.

I don't have any intention or goal to reach here, not convincing to take me seriously, so Im not going to plan a "better mind game". I'm just sharing what I found ridiculous about one company and what I admire about another one. Just one man, one perspective, one opinion.

If you look into what I'm saying and brush off excessive mockery I do on KingSong (because that's how I feel) you may find it reasonable. What I discovered about KS and keep seeing is not ok for me, so I speak up. 

But I'm getting tutored here pretty hardly )) some people here approach me in such an arrogant way or even openly call me names or give mental diagnosis, that's hilarious. I understand you have here the core pack of people, supporting each other no matter what. In two days I've already heard I have mental issues, I have to go somewhere else because it's a grown people thread, I have to take a ride and cool off, I have to behave, hell lot of people telling what to do. And all that for me 😊  I'm really flattered, so many advices, I only have to take them one by one and my road to success is ready 😊 

@UniVehjeiI appreciate your work as a moderator, thank you for keeping an eye on forum and making your contribution to euc world. As I mentioned before people were not too selective in what they tell me, however I never personally address anyone in disrespectful way. I joke around with ducks :)) but it was general, wasn't addressed to anyone and it was a joke. So I honestly don't understand your double standard for banning me, giving some 5 points, omg)) deliting my comments, including the one with scepticism about info source. That's a real concern, people should understand where is it coming from. And your comment was not cool at all on the ban message. So double standard, you letting other disrespectful address me and they have no warnings.

The only thing I did is not stayed too focused on the main thread and kept asking questions. But the author of the post himself said he doesn't mind a bit of general discussion about industry quality. So again, double standards. All because I say negative things about KingSong.

I showed scepticism about the source of all this info @supercurio pulling out from kingsong. He is trying to make it sound like they "got it" they are having a dedicated team, and I'm once again telling you that I know there is no dedicated team, even in the shape and form he brought up later. That's not how kingsong works,  that's not how gotway works. If someone say it's just a bunch of kids running around assembling batteries and connecting them to the motor through series of transistors - that will be 1000% more accurate description of how they are dealing with this than "they assigned a dedicated team". I understand many of you put thousands of money into born dead wheel and anything I say hurts you. But it doesn't mean it's my fault:) you should have red flag them on locking times and pay more attention to what is going on. 

And shadow sponsored advertising is real, I don't understand how that doesn't bother anyone. They literally fooling people with a power of influencers. Top riders make loud videos of how good s20 is, but off main stream they admit how you have to be careful, how many boards you have to change in one month, how it has no torque and so on.

Once again, a conter example - your beloved Gotway, responds with silence when people screaming in attemp to gain their sponsorship. I know personally a top riders who were doing everything they can to get gotway, but it's not their way. While ks is trying to poison the media space, gotway silentl and hard working on the new wheel. Because in the end of the day, product is what matters.

Cheers everyone, really like this forum and I've been reading it for a long time since I got my wheel in 2017 and this is how I found a first people in my area to ride with. So I'm grateful to whoever established it and hopefully I won't need to make a new account because I'm definitely not stopping saying truth and calling out manipulation 🙌

[Tawpie]

Frankly, i'm absolutely stunned.

A brand new model of an electric unicycle has problems, some very serious, with its first large scale production run.

Has that ever happened before? I mean ever? To any manufacturer?

Here I was under the impression that EUC is a fully mature category. Creating the next shiny thing is like cranking out a new and improved pair of scissors, right? How could this have gone so wrong?

[gon2fast]

5 minutes ago, Tawpie said:

Frankly, i'm absolutely stunned.

Yup, very few first batch launches have gone off without major issues. Most of us jump in first knowing that there is going to be some heartbreak. The S22 is a complicated build and will take some revisions to perfect. If you can't deal with that go get a scooter.

Edited September 7, 2022 by gon2fast

[meriwald]

2 minutes ago, Tawpie said:

How could this have gone so wrong?

I think they just tried to jump over their heads.

134v is not a joke. Lack of experience and poor industrial espionage.

And this motor problem is not even direct ks fault, it's all on motor manuf. But ks didn't have time to test and polish everything, they had to push in front of begode.

That shows that they can't care less about riders, and care about $ only.

Shit, every time I reply to something I ending up criticizing Ks 😬😬😁😁

[meriwald]

3 minutes ago, gon2fast said:

get a scooter

That must be officially written in the forum rules as a highest level of insult on the forum.

 

[supercurio]

3 hours ago, meriwald said:

I showed scepticism about the source of all this info @supercurio pulling out from kingsong. He is trying to make it sound like they "got it" they are having a dedicated team, and I'm once again telling you that I know there is no dedicated team, even in the shape and form he brought up later. That's not how kingsong works,  that's not how gotway works. If someone say it's just a bunch of kids running around assembling batteries and connecting them to the motor through series of transistors - that will be 1000% more accurate description of how they are dealing with this than "they assigned a dedicated team". I understand many of you put thousands of money into born dead wheel and anything I say hurts you. But it doesn't mean it's my fault:) you should have red flag them on locking times and pay more attention to what is going on. 

Since you describe that you're confused why you're being given diagnosis, put in a separate thread box, all that stuff:
I think most here base their trust on information being consistent with everything else and patterns. If it all matches: okay seems legit. If there's any contradiction: not believable.

In what you wrote right here for instance, you continue mentioning in quote that "they assigned a dedicated team", implying that it's what someone wrote.
Except I never did, and even made a post explaining why it wouldn't be the case. However you came up with this dedicated team idea, and then keep arguing against this thing that never happened.

My opinion is that you genuinely want to give good advice and warn people against issues that would affect them or make them lose a bunch of money. To make this effort effective, make sure that everything you say is as accurate as possible, least amount of judgment and interpretation, including when quoting someone a couple posts above which is so easy to verify for anyone. Then you'll see the feedback from what you post change and others start to rely on your good helpful advice.

Edited September 7, 2022 by supercurio

[Funky]

4 hours ago, gon2fast said:

Yup, very few first batch launches have gone off without major issues. Most of us jump in first knowing that there is going to be some heartbreak. The S22 is a complicated build and will take some revisions to perfect. If you can't deal with that go get a scooter.

Or simply get an older, truly tested wheel.. That has been in the world more than 2 years.

[meriwald]

9 hours ago, supercurio said:

Except I never did

"King Song decided to have an internal team focusing on this motor issue "

That was your words

You giving too much credit and value to the company that tosses their clients like garbage.

so just to confirm, can you add me to the WeChat group, I can send yiy my wechat id

or at least share some screenshots please, so everyone can see

[Tawpie]

7 minutes ago, meriwald said:

company that tosses their clients like garbage.

I must disagree with you on this one... it's too early to know how KS is going to handle this. Time will, as always, tell.

If KS follows the example of the industry's performance leader, they'll tell folks to replace their motor every year.

[meriwald]

3 minutes ago, Tawpie said:

I must disagree with you on this one... it's too early to know how KS is going to handle this. Time will, as always, tell.

If KS follows the example of the industry's performance leader, they'll tell folks to replace their motor every year.

I already know how it will end, and I don't need to be in any WeChat group for that ))

But I'm not going to say, because you can't really criticize KingSong here without getting warings and ban

The most responsible solution is kingsong locking all s20 because they are unsafe to ride and makes a live stream where CEO looks into customer eyes with pocker face for 2 hours straight, like nothing is up

[chanman]

Some of you are giving this man too much credit in having genuine intentions. 

Occasionally he writes as if he is trying to be constructive and giving reasonable advice and ends with a . This is an act. He doesn't actually want to accomplish anything other than tell people they are morons for buying Kingsong and discredit them in any possible way by saying absolutely anything despite whether it is true or not.

 

 

[Funky]

3 minutes ago, chanman said:

Some of you are giving this man too much credit in having genuine intentions. 

Occasionally he writes as if he is trying to be constructive and giving reasonable advice and ends with a . This is an act. He doesn't actually want to accomplish anything other than tell people they are morons for buying Kingsong and discredit them in any possible way by saying absolutely anything despite whether it is true or not.

 

 

Hey.. In my eyes everyone is a moron.  And on internet i like to imagine that i'm talking with donkey from Shrek. 

Edited September 7, 2022 by Funky

[supercurio]

2 hours ago, meriwald said:

"King Song decided to have an internal team focusing on this motor issue "

That was your words

Thanks for looking again .
In case my formulation was lacking clarity, I used "Focusing on" to mean: increased prioritization, and you meant "dedicated to" described it as exclusivity, which KS would not have the resources to.

Anyway, team is formed and the conversation started, as I reported here.

2 hours ago, meriwald said:

so just to confirm, can you add me to the WeChat group, I can send yiy my wechat id
or at least share some screenshots please, so everyone can see

Although you shall be forever commended for your heroic help to bring wheels back during the ride where several S22 mainboard blew, I can't think or something you'd bring to a direct conversation with KS from what I've read in this thread. And you said you have your sources there already so you're fine.

Then sharing screenshot from a private group is a goddamn awful idea. I will keep my independence on this tho, so I'll keep making public what I deem relevant in order to reach the target goal, which is getting S22 issues fixed. And there's a good list to go through.

Anyway I can't blame you for trying to get the info you want, but in this case I'll decline: that would be an obviously terrible strategic move overall.

Edited September 7, 2022 by supercurio

[gon2fast]

On 9/6/2022 at 10:44 PM, meriwald said:

That must be officially written in the forum rules as a highest level of insult on the forum.

Well stated, I apologize LOL.

[gon2fast]

We can all disagree and still get along.

 

[alcatraz]

If there's nothing more to add then maybe wait and see if there's going to be any motor replacement offer. Standing on principle of not paying anything, could end in being emptyhanded. 

Paying less is better than nothing. If you bought from overseas, remember that western consumer protection means nothing in China. If buyers and sellers need to meet half way then being respectful and cooperative will likely yield a better outcome.

[mhpr262]

On 9/7/2022 at 7:34 AM, Tawpie said:

Frankly, i'm absolutely stunned.

A brand new model of an electric unicycle has problems, some very serious, with its first large scale production run.

Has that ever happened before? I mean ever? To any manufacturer?

Here I was under the impression that EUC is a fully mature category. Creating the next shiny thing is like cranking out a new and improved pair of scissors, right? How could this have gone so wrong?

To be fair outrunner/hub electric motors, li-ion cell battery packs, transistors for power electronics and linkage suspension systems are not exactly rocket science that the engineers have to figure out as they go along, like the SpaceX engineers with their brand new, fully reusable Starship rocket. The issue is not so much that that there are issues with the technology but that those issues are due to sloppy engineering, lazy corner cutting, plain carelessness and irresponsible cost saving measures. Literally ALL of the issues with new wheels of the last two or three years were entirely foreseeable or preventable. THAT is what is so infuriating about the whole matter.

[Tawpie]

2 hours ago, mhpr262 said:

The issue is not so much that that there are issues with the technology but that those issues are due to sloppy engineering, lazy corner cutting, plain carelessness and irresponsible cost saving measures.

From the viewpoint of someone who spent their working life in new product development, this is a bit of a harsh assessment! But my history makes me a bit defensive as a fellow 'guilty party' so take it with a grain of salt.

We are not buying space hardware here. We are not willing to pay what it would cost in money and performance for an EV grade or even an e-bike grade battery. It's taken SpaceX a decade and how much money and spectacular failures to develop a steerable self balancing free falling tube, I'd bet the total R&D available to all the EUC manufacturers is less than what went into the grid fin on Falcon.

Anyway, yes. I 100% agree that things can be better. But until we, the end consumer, are able to pay what it costs, we will get what we pay for.

Edited September 9, 2022 by Tawpie

[Funky]

33 minutes ago, Tawpie said:

From the viewpoint of someone who spent their working life in new product development, this is a bit of a harsh assessment! But my history makes me a bit defensive as a fellow 'guilty party' so take it with a grain of salt.

We are not buying space hardware here. We are not willing to pay what it would cost in money and performance for an EV grade or even an e-bike grade battery. It's taken SpaceX a decade and how much money and spectacular failures to develop a self balancing free falling tube, I'd bet the total R&D available to all the EUC manufacturers is less than what went into the grid fin on Falcon.

Anyway, yes. I 100% agree that things can be better. But until we, the end consumer, are able to pay what it costs, we will get what we pay for.

I would say that what @mhpr262 said was right on point! And no where near harsh as it should be. Euc engineers are simply lazy and careless. Way too much corner cutting to save some $$$... Some wheels still got hotplugs, that have exited true many wheels/models/years and have never been fixed. Still no real waterproofing done whatsoever. And simply sloppy products made.

Same as i have been saying, that last 2-3 years all wheels in my eyes are complete garbage. No quality control whatsoever and simply built bad. I would not buy any of the new wheels, that have been released past few years. Because they are simply bad!!! It's not really about price even. I don't want to buy a product that cost 3000-5000$ and are bad.. I want a good product for that price!

Even now if i had option of V13 or 18xl.. It would be hard decision on my hands. Heavy "new" turd, that have not been tested whatsoever. Or wheel that is truly tested and works great and are reliable. I think i would go 18xl.. (Even if both costed ~2000$.)

Edited September 9, 2022 by Funky

[techyiam]

14 minutes ago, Tawpie said:

this is a bit of a harsh assessment

Motor QC, controller, and sliders, are three glaringly obvious areas where Kingsong is considerably behind when compared to other euc companies. Kingsong isn't breaking new ground for the industry. Kingsong is more like playing catch up.

Moreover, Kingsong's S22 priced similarly to its competitors'. For example, when compared to the Master, they are priced similarly, but the Master has more battery, and motor performance? The S22 may excel on big hits, but the Master provides a more comfortable ride. Also, even though the S22 has a longer theoretical suspension travel, many owners are reducing it to improve rideability. 

[Tawpie]

47 minutes ago, techyiam said:

Motor QC, controller, and sliders, are three glaringly obvious areas where Kingsong is considerably behind when compared to other euc companies. Kingsong isn't breaking new ground for the industry. Kingsong is more like playing catch up.

Moreover, Kingsong's S22 priced similarly to its competitors'. For example, when compared to the Master, they are priced similarly, but the Master has more battery, and motor performance? The S22 may excel on big hits, but the Master provides a more comfortable ride. Also, even though the S22 has a longer theoretical suspension travel, many owners are reducing it to improve rideability. 

Sure! Agreed. I cancelled my pre-order because I got to the point where it was better to wait, I wasn't going to be riding it enough until spring anyway.

Half baked releases are an industry wide 'feature' and no manufacturer has the high ground, or the low.

BG continues to release wheels that have 1 or 2 complete WTF issues, it's in their DNA... battery configuration, water protection, over stressing of batteries, shit excuses for wire harnesses, durability of the STRUCTURE. IM, LK aren't in the clear either. I just got an OG Sherman and was warned about tires coming off the V1 rim... and the quirky 'no further updates' firmware. It didn't come with the "water proofing" sticker but has had plastic ribs ground down so it won't kill the battery when it tips over on its side (did they honestly never drop a wheel on its side?). Make sure the axel isn't bent because the previous owner isn't a light weight. It's far from perfect and the long term support… I have to use a rider fork of unreleased software to upgrade the firmware so it won't show negative miles, LK never provided the tool to fix that. Abrams? How long did people wait for "safe" V12 driver boards—and did IM ever publicly acknowledge their "issue"? Pinch a wire during V12 reassembly anyone? They didn't recall V11 for bearings, or reveal why sometimes their batteries end up with huge voltage discrepancies—they'll just brick your wheel until you pay for another battery. Forget to stow your kickstand and you burn your board?

The lists go on and on and on. All I'm saying is that we do not pay nearly enough to expect nirvana. Accept that and move on, or just stick with the last known "high quality very reliable no issues" wheel from your favorite manufacturer... MCM5, 18XL, V8?

Pointing fingers and declaring people incompetent and uncaring is as tiresome as pontificating about the evils the junk food industry while we open the second bag of Cool Ranch Doritos. (I like those almost as much as riding!)

Edited September 9, 2022 by Tawpie