Paul A Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 If one V13 hall sensor fails, is the wheel going to notify the rider? Or will the notification be when the second hall sensor fails, sending the rider to ground. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techyiam Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 30 minutes ago, Clem604 said: So if there are hall sensor issue(s) with the wheel will it manifest itself in the beginning or could it happen at any time? I think Eevees sold around 30 (I could be wrong) batch 1 wheels so I will inquire with them if any customers have had any hall sensor related errors. With the Abrams, it wasn't so straightforward. It can cutout somewhat randomly. However, with the last firmware, the Abrams doesn't cutout even with bad hall sensor signals above 8 or 10 km/h. This was possible because Leaper Kim implemented a software based hall sensor backup. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UPONIT Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 17 minutes ago, Paul A said: If one V13 hall sensor fails, is the wheel going to notify the rider? I had the same question. 13 minutes ago, techyiam said: With the Abrams, it wasn't so straightforward. It can cutout somewhat randomly. However, with the last firmware, the Abrams doesn't cutout even with bad hall sensor signals above 8 or 10 km/h. This was possible because Leaper Kim implemented a software based hall sensor backup. Huh? What is this "software based hall sensor backup" voodoo you speak of? Is this documented somewhere? I'd love to hear about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techyiam Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 15 minutes ago, UPONIT said: Huh? What is this "software based hall sensor backup" voodoo you speak of? Is this documented somewhere? I'd love to hear about that. I have read it on Facebook in one the Abrams related groups. Leaper Kim even provided tests to show that the Abrams did not cut out even when the some of the hall sensors were disabled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Funky Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 2 hours ago, Clem604 said: So if there are hall sensor issue(s) with the wheel will it manifest itself in the beginning or could it happen at any time? I think Eevees sold around 30 (I could be wrong) batch 1 wheels so I will inquire with them if any customers have had any hall sensor related errors. My guess anytime. Even while riding.. 1 hour ago, Clem604 said: Yes I hope so because I'm going ahead with the Sherman S regardless. I doesn't bother me being a guinea pig for future Sherman S owners, I suppose someone has to. Not all heroes wear capes. Go, go Mr... Spoiler And here we go with "first" problems.. What did i tell you foulks. Rusty pedals.. Hall sensor.. What's next?I already can see the origami construction failing over time. Or suspension going out of sync, because of not having rigid arch/bridge in middle. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Tasku Posted January 23, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted January 23, 2023 4 hours ago, Funky said: And here we go with "first" problems.. What did i tell you foulks. Rusty pedals.. Hall sensor.. What's next?I already can see the origami construction failing over time. Or suspension going out of sync, because of not having rigid arch/bridge in middle. 1st batch wheels tend to have problems and as we seen they get polished. Does not matter the manufacturor in my opinion, cause this is niche and small business even still. I don't see this only LeperKim problem with ShermanS. Good thing we are well informed, and I consider the rusty pedal solved(outside batch-1). Looking at the problems other models had during their launch, Sherman-S has almost non-existing problems so far. But I bet there is a buzz at the workstation involving hallsensors right now. We see this with all production industry, with cars and motorcycles and what not. If you want to be on safer side, wait til production is well on its way and all possible problems are polished, and this is why most don't buy the 1st batch cars. The first batch people should maybe consider that they should contact their seller when they encounter problems, as this way they get theirs fixed but it can be slow process (you might end up having batch-3 setup later on). If you get these early batches, hopefully get the wheel from closeby seller, that's my tip for anyone hesitant. Regarding hall sensor problems, I would say there is not a single model of a wheel that has 0% change of hall sensor failure. V13 has backup as mentioned, that's progress. I hear Sherman might have backup to this function but still would cause need to repair. Hallsensor failures are low change, extremely so. They do get discovered usually very early on when wheel is tested. Seems the person did ride his unit careful too at first, as anyone should any new wheel outa box. They could have been damaged during transit for one, so first tests must be careful. Best practice is that the place where you buy it tests the unit for you before shipping to you. Extra layer of security there. --- Funky, now you need to go get yourself Sherman-S. After you do, come back tell us more, your so invested into this. Take pictures and go ride it. Give us your review with actual unit. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
novazeus Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 @MrMonoWheeldid a very nice topic on his teardown with great pictures. i wish every wheel had that. kinda hard buying a pig in a poke online. i don't have group rides. i'm no wheel mystic. i'd just like high quality photos of every part of the wheel so at least i can decide for myself, right or wrong.(and not bait and switch tires like king song did in kuji's video and send me this horrible tire that's on it now). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Funky Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 23 minutes ago, Tasku said: 1st batch wheels tend to have problems and as we seen they get polished. Does not matter the manufacturor in my opinion, cause this is niche and small business even still. I don't see this only LeperKim problem with ShermanS. Good thing we are well informed, and I consider the rusty pedal solved(outside batch-1). Looking at the problems other models had during their launch, Sherman-S has almost non-existing problems so far. But I bet there is a buzz at the workstation involving hallsensors right now. We see this with all production industry, with cars and motorcycles and what not. If you want to be on safer side, wait til production is well on its way and all possible problems are polished, and this is why most don't buy the 1st batch cars. The first batch people should maybe consider that they should contact their seller when they encounter problems, as this way they get theirs fixed but it can be slow process (you might end up having batch-3 setup later on). If you get these early batches, hopefully get the wheel from closeby seller, that's my tip for anyone hesitant. Regarding hall sensor problems, I would say there is not a single model of a wheel that has 0% change of hall sensor failure. V13 has backup as mentioned, that's progress. I hear Sherman might have backup to this function but still would cause need to repair. Hallsensor failures are low change, extremely so. They do get discovered usually very early on when wheel is tested. Seems the person did ride his unit careful too at first, as anyone should any new wheel outa box. They could have been damaged during transit for one, so first tests must be careful. Best practice is that the place where you buy it tests the unit for you before shipping to you. Extra layer of security there. --- Funky, now you need to go get yourself Sherman-S. After you do, come back tell us more, your so invested into this. Take pictures and go ride it. Give us your review with actual unit. Completely agree on 1st batch problems. If one wants somewhat problem "free" wheel. They need to buy an older model. Or 3rd/4th batch wheel. As much as i would like to have something like S-S. It simply isn't a wheel for me. As i don't need range/speed. And even then i would have bought a Sherman Max.. Instead of S-S. Go watch (Wrong Way!) latest video. I feel the same about wheels.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clem604 Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 (edited) 7 hours ago, Funky said: My guess anytime. Even while riding.. Not all heroes wear capes. Go, go Mr... Reveal hidden contents Haha not a hero, just a stubborn fool. This will be my contribution to the EUC world, by possibly having a cutout and a subsequent face plant in the name of progress 🫡 All jokes aside, I'm still not too concerned about this possible issue as so far we have only have 2 instances of hall sensor failure that have been reported. Edited January 23, 2023 by Clem604 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Paul A Posted January 23, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted January 23, 2023 13 minutes ago, Clem604 said: having a cutout and subsequent face plant Video it, or it didn't happen..... 3 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHOSTTE Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 Just now, Paul A said: Video it, or it didn't happen..... God damn 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasku Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 (edited) Some of the common problems with sensors is that they need to be close enough, yet not far enough. Even slightly tilted angle could have bad results too. You only need to have made poor work attaching it and you could have problem. So with new assembly lines it is possible that someone could have made errors, maybe he was the new guy. If this is something only 2 occasion in first batches, I would not worry. Generally hallsensors have not been the problem, but like I said EVERY EUC model has some need hallsensor related problem solving. (edit. Also the wheels are tested before they are sent so.. and usually one guy does the work and other inspects, so margin of error would be minimal during assembly of the product.) Edited January 23, 2023 by Tasku Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InfiniteWheelie Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 10 hours ago, UPONIT said: Huh? What is this "software based hall sensor backup" voodoo you speak of? Is this documented somewhere? I'd love to hear about that. Is it possible he’s talking about sensor-less operation? I’ve heard wheels can be run sensor-less above a certain speed. He did mention 8-10 km/h. If sensor-less really works, it seems like a good redundancy method to prevent cutouts (while moving quickly). It requires no extra parts or cost, with nothing to physically fail. Of course dual halls sensors is a good method too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wstuart Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 1 hour ago, Tasku said: Some of the common problems with sensors is that they need to be close enough, yet not far enough. Even slightly tilted angle could have bad results too. You only need to have made poor work attaching it and you could have problem. So with new assembly lines it is possible that someone could have made errors, maybe he was the new guy. If this is something only 2 occasion in first batches, I would not worry. Generally hallsensors have not been the problem, but like I said EVERY EUC model has some need hallsensor related problem solving. (edit. Also the wheels are tested before they are sent so.. and usually one guy does the work and other inspects, so margin of error would be minimal during assembly of the product.) So is a hall sensor problem something that would only whow up in the first 10 miles?......1 mile?....... 30 miles? I'm sort of comforted by the fact that the Facebook cutout occurred at 9 miles...... supporting that this is a problem that happens in the beginning of a wheel's life. My Sherman S came with 2 miles testing on the odometer- which I appreciated. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rawnei Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 1 minute ago, wstuart said: So is a hall sensor problem something that would only whow up in the first 10 miles?......1 mile?....... 30 miles? I'm sort of comforted by the fact that the Facebook cutout occurred at 9 miles...... supporting that this is a problem that happens in the beginning of a wheel's life. My Sherman S came with 2 miles testing on the odometer- which I appreciated. Nobody can say, all it takes is 1 case of it happening at 1000 miles and that idea is contradicted. We would need to understand what is happening and why. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tawpie Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 (edited) 14 hours ago, UPONIT said: Is this documented somewhere? I'd love to hear about that. I have no idea if LK uses it, but there is a motor control architecture called "senseless" that can control a BLDC motor without hall sensors. S22 claims sensorless as a backup in their marketing but I haven't seen anyone verify that it works. It is totally real, there's a video of a VESC sensorless project that certainly does work! https://outerreeftech.com/blogs/news/sensorless-brushless-dc-bldc-motor-control#:~:text=Sensorless BLDC motor control is also known as,the motor%2C current%2Fvoltage is passed through the windings. Edited January 23, 2023 by Tawpie 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chester Copperpot Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 On 1/22/2023 at 4:05 AM, Paul D said: I think how you ride, your gear setup, and your brain make everything different for each rider. I have a hard time going slow on mine because it’s so easy to go fast. lol, I crashed because of this. Irony. it’s a smooth stable ride for me. I need to get used to riding faster than my v11 takes me. Today was my breakthrough day. Wobbles are almost completely gone, cruising around 27-28mph without even realizing it until I looked down, lol. I never thought I had a need for speed but damn, it’s so easy on this thing. I’m getting a bit of upper leg fatigue now, clearly indicating that I’m engaging muscles that I wasn’t using on my smaller wheel. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WILSONEUC Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 Anyone know what is being fixed or addressed in batch 3, or future batches...if announced? I want to buy this wheel but unsure yet if this is the perfect time to do so. Question is ......BUY NOW....or buy later ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasku Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 29 minutes ago, WILSONEUC said: Question is ......BUY NOW....or buy later ? If your batch has issue, you can get it fixed at your local dealer. So assuming you willing to buy from close-by, I think it would not matter much. But even still, I personally don't buy first batches. Also during the release it is winter(for me in here), I always wait to get later batches because.. If it is good weather, I would not wait to waste another moment 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uras Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 On 1/23/2023 at 12:13 PM, KiwiMark said: I'm assuming that you have decided to never buy any EUC? I doubt that there is any EUC made that didn't have one single unit fail, so you presumably would rule out buying any, at all, ever. I wouldn't buy anything that hasn't been out for at least a year. The fixes are often incorporated in the newer wheels. This seems to be industry wide with euc - let the public do the fault finding 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHOSTTE Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 15 minutes ago, Uras said: I wouldn't buy anything that hasn't been out for at least a year. The fixes are often incorporated in the newer wheels. This seems to be industry wide with euc - let the public do the fault finding No different from buying a car or anything really 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clem604 Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 (edited) 4 hours ago, WILSONEUC said: Anyone know what is being fixed or addressed in batch 3, or future batches...if announced? I want to buy this wheel but unsure yet if this is the perfect time to do so. Question is ......BUY NOW....or buy later ? It depends on your risk tolerance. There are a few of us in this thread waiting for their Sherman S to arrive so you could wait for us to put some miles on our wheels before you take the plunge. My batch 2 wheel should arrive within the next 2 weeks. Edited January 24, 2023 by Clem604 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techyiam Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 13 minutes ago, oktothorpe said: No different from buying a car or anything really Except for one big difference. Although, there are many other reasons. Some electric wheels can cause random cutouts, which can cause serious bodily harm. Car are federally regulated. The likelyhood of buying a new car that can randomly hurt its occupants is highly unlikely. Not so with electric wheels. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHOSTTE Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techyiam Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 8 minutes ago, Clem604 said: Depends on your risk tolerance. There are a few of us in this thread waiting for their Sherman S to arrive so you could wait for us to put some miles on our wheels before you take the plunge. You guys are the unsung heroes. Hopefully the hall sensor related issue is not wide spread. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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