onewheelkoregro Posted December 20, 2023 Share Posted December 20, 2023 I wonder what the output is? https://www.livemint.com/industry/energy/northvolt-breaks-through-no-critical-mineral-sodium-ion-based-battery-ready-for-market-11702875787729.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanB Posted December 20, 2023 Share Posted December 20, 2023 I've heard of it before and I'm excited for any future battery tech that can improve our EUCs. After a tiny bit of research I found out that the Sodium batteries have a 160Wh/Kg whereas lithium batteries have 300Wh/Kg, so not great for EUCs unless they improve the sodium batteries over time. Still, developing a battery that doesn't rely on rare earth metals is a big deal. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RagingGrandpa Posted December 20, 2023 Share Posted December 20, 2023 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robse Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 Solid state battery design charges in minutes, lasts for thousands of cycles.. https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2024/01/240108153157.htm hmnnn ?? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul D Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 Well, I got a boner. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UniVehje Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 I’ll get interested when we see these in any consumer device. Then we may be close to first EUC manufacturer using them. It should be a no brainier if they become available. Even at high cost. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aztek Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 Problem is these are always within reach - next two years. Just like nuclear fusion (although this is good). 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alcatraz Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 On 1/21/2024 at 1:21 PM, Paul D said: Well, I got a boner. Do you mean a friend that looks for old bones in the ground? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alcatraz Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 How many boners can you count? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Ray Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 I dont know if there are already solid state 18650 batteries in the market. But if there are, can they be used to replace the old LiIon versions? Does the BMS still work? I have this fear that one day my KS-14D might burn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Brahan Seer Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 Solid-State Batteries Introduction to Solid-State Battery Technology Solid-state batteries (SSBs) are an emerging and highly promising innovation in the relentless pursuit of advanced energy storage solutions. In contrast to traditional batteries, SSBs feature a radical departure in design, as they make use of solid electrolytes as opposed to the more common liquid or gel electrolytes found in conventional battery technologies like lithium-ion cells. This groundbreaking shift in the battery paradigm holds tremendous potential for significant advancements in multiple key aspects, encompassing energy density, safety, lifespan, and the operational temperature range. In terms of energy density, solid electrolytes facilitate the utilization of lithium metal anodes, which boast a notably higher theoretical capacity when compared to the graphite anodes that are prevalent in lithium-ion batteries. Moreover, the utilization of solid electrolytes offers an inherent advantage in terms of safety, as they are non-flammable, effectively mitigating the substantial risk associated with thermal runaway, which is a primary concern in conventional battery technologies. Furthermore, the benefits of solid-state batteries extend to the operational temperature range. The use of solid-state electrolytes enables a potentially wider spectrum of temperatures within which these batteries can function efficiently. This expanded operational temperature range opens up new possibilities for deploying these batteries in diverse environments and applications, making them an attractive option with a profound impact on the energy storage landscape. BMS Considerations for Solid-State Batteries Solid-state batteries, despite their promising potential, bring forth novel challenges and factors that necessitate a reevaluation of Battery Management System (BMS) design and operation. While the core principles of battery management, such as State of Charge (SoC) estimation, cell balancing, and safety protocols, remain pertinent, the methods for achieving these functions may undergo substantial variations. For example, because solid-state batteries exhibit distinct charge and discharge behaviors in comparison to liquid-electrolyte batteries, it might be imperative to formulate new models for precise SoC estimation. Similarly, cell balancing strategies might require adjustments due to the distinct self-discharge rates and varying internal resistance characteristics inherent to solid-state cells. The introduction of solid-state batteries into the energy storage landscape prompts an evolution in BMS design and operation, calling for innovative solutions tailored to the unique characteristics of this groundbreaking technology. The thermal management demands associated with solid-state batteries could indeed deviate significantly from traditional batteries. Although these batteries may boast a broader operational temperature range and a reduced risk of thermal runaway, they might also necessitate a distinct approach to managing their thermal behavior, particularly due to potentially higher operating temperatures. Furthermore, solid-state batteries may exhibit different failure modes compared to their liquid-based counterparts. This divergence in failure modes calls for the development of new techniques for fault detection and diagnostics. Consequently, Battery Management Systems (BMSs) tailored for solid-state batteries must be equipped to monitor and react to these distinctive operational characteristics and failure scenarios, necessitating an evolution in their design and functionality. Link: https://www.monolithicpower.com/jp/battery-management-systems/advanced-topics-in-bms/future-trends-in-bms Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriull Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 57 minutes ago, T-Ray said: I dont know if there are already solid state 18650 batteries in the market. But if there are, can they be used to replace the old LiIon versions? As they are 23 minutes ago, The Brahan Seer said: an emerging and highly promising innovation there is no viable replacement for li ion cells in EUCs. 57 minutes ago, T-Ray said: I have this fear that one day my KS-14D might burn. The ks 14d is not really a wheel known for fires, but one can still regard some points to reduce the risk, like monitor charging to recognise dead/detoriated cells causing imbalances or any other abnormalities. Inspect the batteries after crashes to, at least visually exclude cell "deformations" Store the wheel or just the batteries outside (be careful in regard to humidity) Don't burden the batteries once charge state gets lower. Replace the batteries once abnormalities show up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MetricUSA Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 (edited) I found this actual solidstate battery you can take home...now to but them in eucs!!! Yoshino Solid-State Portable Power Station B4000 SST, 2611Wh Backup Battery with 4000W AC Outlets & TT-30R Outlets for RVs, Solar Generator (Solar Panel Optional) for Camping, Outdoor, Emergency https://a.co/d/5gvVmXM Edited July 19 by MetricUSA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Brahan Seer Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 4 hours ago, MetricUSA said: I found this actual solidstate battery you can take home The problem is the battery suggested is only suitable for powering home devices with low current draw. Total 20A at 110V for the whole system. The discharge current per cell will be very low compared to the current 50S cells we are using. We are close 1year+ to getting solid state batteries for EV's with the right specs but not quite there yet. Maybe 1-3 years before it becomes affordable too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punxatawneyjoe Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 1 hour ago, The Brahan Seer said: The problem is the battery suggested It's also 54 ah so it wont last long for a $3k battery. You can buy a lithium 100ah battery for $220 USD and a 3kw inverter for $150. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mono Posted July 21 Share Posted July 21 (edited) On 7/19/2024 at 4:54 PM, MetricUSA said: I found this actual solidstate battery you can take home...now to but them in eucs!!! Yoshino Solid-State Portable Power Station B4000 SST, 2611Wh Backup Battery with 4000W AC Outlets & TT-30R Outlets for RVs, Solar Generator (Solar Panel Optional) for Camping, Outdoor, Emergency https://a.co/d/5gvVmXM 2611Wh battery which weighs 54 lbs which is an energy density of 107Wh/kg, the battery pack of my old V8 had ≈180Wh/kg (460Wh for 2.6kg including casing). Edited July 21 by Mono 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacGyverCanada Posted July 21 Share Posted July 21 48 minutes ago, Mono said: 2611Wh battery which weighs 54 lbs That's the whole battery station but how much does the actual pack weigh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Funky Posted July 21 Share Posted July 21 23 minutes ago, macgyvercanada said: That's the whole battery station but how much does the actual pack weigh? He said 460wh = ~2.6kg do the math.. My 18xl one pack weights around ~4kg and it's 777Wh. Solidstate battery will only reduce 5 to 10kg overall wheel weight.. In my 18xl case instead of 8kg in battery - it would be around 4kg. (Or so.. IDK how energy dense these new packs will be and how much range i would get.. I'm just guessing for same amount of range it would be 2x lighter..) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mono Posted July 21 Share Posted July 21 1 hour ago, macgyvercanada said: That's the whole battery station but how much does the actual pack weigh? I don't know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punxatawneyjoe Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 12 hours ago, macgyvercanada said: how much does the actual pack weigh? "The 2611Wh capacity delivers powerful performance with a battery weight of 21 lbs. " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alcatraz Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 Regular li-ion is also around 21lb for 2600Wh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidB Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 (edited) On 1/21/2024 at 6:58 PM, Aztek said: Problem is these are always within reach - next two years. Just like nuclear fusion (although this is good). Agreed CATL has 5C charging battery packs already in the market. (Li Mega 7 seater). BYD is working on 6C ie have the tech , getting it ready for production. If you can charge in a few minutes wont need huge packs. Edited July 22 by DavidB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aztek Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 8 minutes ago, DavidB said: Agreed CATL has 5C charging battery packs already in the market. (Li Mega 7 seater). BYD is working on 6C ie have the tech , getting it ready for production. If you can charge in a few minutes wont need huge packs. The solid state batteries started to seem a bit more in reach this year. This is very encouraging. It will be fantastic to have fast charging, light and safe batteries on an EUC, but the real importance of these batteries is their potential to literally save the world from the global warming. Much bigger things are at stake here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrel Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 "No fire, only smoke" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mono Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 (edited) The hype cycle of battery technology (with time stamp): The state of battery research (with time stamp): Edited July 25 by Mono Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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