Solid-state lithium batteries

[RockyTop]

I hope to see the solid state battery someday. 

 

[Paul A]

https://spectrum.ieee.org/solid-state-battery

25 October, 2021

Solid-State Batteries Rev Up Electric Cars, Boost Grid Storage.

All-solid batteries could increase battery capacity, safety, and longevity.

Now companies suggest they may commercialize solid-state batteries in the next five years for use in electric "hypercars" and power grids.

Solid-state batteries instead employ solid electrolytes such as ceramics.

 

Italian automaker Automobili Estrema is developing the Fulminea, which will feature four electric motors with a total peak power of 1.5 megawatts (2,040 horsepower), allowing the car to accelerate from 0 to 320 km/h (200 mph) in under 10 seconds. Its 100 kilowatt-hour battery pack will give it an expected range of about 520 kilometers (323 miles).

"Currently our solid-state batteries have an energy density of about 400 watt-hours per kilogram, which is about double the typical energy density of commercial lithium-ion batteries on the market," Omar says. "By 2025, we aim to achieve an energy density of 450 watt-hours per kilogram."

________________

If solid state batteries become available in EUCs, won't need swappable batteries.  Current EUCs will have double the range.

 

Most powerful Ferrari has approximately 800 horsepower.

 

[Paul A]

Tiny solid state batteries.

Could a few thousand in a pack be used for EUCs?  

Too cost prohibitive? 

Toyota has made a car operating on solid state batteries.

 

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a38711469/toyota-solid-state-batteries-2025/

Toyota announced that its first vehicle to use solid-state batteries will go on sale by 2025 in an interview with Autoline. The first Toyotas to use the new batteries will be hybrids, rather than fully electric vehicles, making it possible the first to get the new battery could be the Prius.

10 Jan 2022

[Paul A]

https://insideevs.com/news/551144/nissan-proprietary-solid-state-batteries/amp/

Nov 29, 2021

Nissan Announces Proprietary Solid-State Batteries: $75/kWh Pack

They are expected by fiscal year 2028, with a pilot plant in Yokohama as early as fiscal year 2024.

Not only that, Nissan says that by fiscal year 2028, it will launch an electric vehicle with "its proprietary all-solid-state batteries (ASSB)" and the ASSB pilot plant in Yokohama is expected to be ready as early as fiscal year 2024.

 

Nissan says that the ASSB will reduce charging time to a third of its current value, double the energy density as well as make EVs more efficient and - probably the most important - more affordable.

[Freeforester]

Changes a-coming:

 

[Paul A]

A Vehicle equipped with all-solid-state batteries

44K views · 7 months ago

Toyota Motor Corporation
35.7K subscribers

 

In June 2020, we built a vehicle equipped with all-solid-state batteries, conducted test runs on a test course, and obtained driving data.

Based on that data, we continued to make improvements, and in August 2020, we obtained license plate registration for vehicles equipped with all-solid-state batteries and conducted test drives.

 

[Paradox]

9 hours ago, Paul A said:

and in August 2020

So what is happening now, 2 years later?  There must be some development.

[Paul A]

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a38711469/toyota-solid-state-batteries-2025/

Jan 10, 2022

First Toyota with Solid-State Batteries Will Be a Hybrid

The Japanese automaker confirmed that its first vehicle with solid-state batteries will launch by mid-decade and that the new tech will initially debut in a hybrid.

• Toyota announced that its first vehicle to use solid-state batteries will go on sale by 2025 in an interview with Autoline.
• The first Toyotas to use the new batteries will be hybrids, rather than fully electric vehicles, making it possible the first to get the new battery could be the Prius.
• Solid-state batteries promise to bring quicker charging times and longer ranges.

 

 

https://www.motor1.com/news/559226/toyota-production-car-solid-state-battery-2025/

Jan 07, 2022

Toyota Confirms Production Car With Solid-State Battery On Sale By 2025

But why is Toyota prioritizing hybrids to the detriment of EVs?

Gill Pratt admits it seems "a little bit unintuitive" at a first glance, but his explanation makes perfect sense.

With the current crop of electric cars still carrying a substantial premium over their gasoline equivalents, fitting an EV with solid-state batteries would render the vehicle even more expensive.

Costs are likely to come down between now and 2025, but not enough to make an ICE-less car with solid-state batteries feasible.

For this reason, Toyota will be applying the promising tech to hybrids first since the batteries will be smaller and therefore won't have such a big impact on the asking price.

 

[360rumors]

CNBC posted a story that a manufacturer of solid state batteries is beginning a pilot production for EV cars. Could this help take EUCs mainstream?

Not only could solid state batteries make EUCs cheaper but also lighter and more important, safer. I’m hoping they could be safe enough to bring on airplanes - in which case EUCs could become an essential traveling companion.

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2022/06/06/solid-power-begins-pilot-production-of-solid-state-ev-battery.html

What do you all think?

[alcatraz]

I read an article that Sanyo/Panasonic just sent their first test shipment of 4680 cells to Tesla. When mass production kicks in you will start to see 4680 cells in wheels (I think).

Current problem is heat dissipation. A larger cell has less surface area to dissipate heat from.

Energy density is really good. Higher than 18650-3500 and 21700-5000.

Now, it is likely that the cells will be manufactured in Japan but maybe in time also in China. Until they're made in China the availability will mainly be from recycled Tesla motors battery packs. They're usually sent to China for recycling.

Edited June 7, 2022 by alcatraz

[goatman]

i used to think that but i found when testing batteries that the larger batteries like a 26650 or 21700 run cooler than a 18650 at 10 amp draw although it could have just been the cells that i was testing. i even had to stick one 26650 in a cardboard box with the lid closed to get it up to a good  temperature to get good capacity out of it.

i never really dove into it, i feel trapped like a chicken sitting on an egg when testing batteries, its not my cup of tea, but i think the 4680 and some other cells have multiple tabs inside

 

[Funky]

When these batteries become a reality in euc's, i will buy new euc then - as i said already many times. Be in 2-5 years. Can't wait. I don't really need "new" wheel, but safety that these "solid state" batteries give, are worth getting new euc. Worth not burning down house. Also same range for lighter wheels are a big plus for me.

[Paul A]

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/06/06/solid-power-begins-pilot-production-of-solid-state-ev-battery.html

Mon, Jun 6 2022

Solid Power, backed by Ford and BMW, begins pilot production of innovative EV battery with longer range and quicker recharging

• Solid Power said it has begun pilot manufacturing of solid-state EV batteries for internal testing.
• The company will begin supplying batteries to Ford and BMW for testing later this year.
• If all goes well, mass production could begin as soon as 2024.

____________________________

 

Solid state batteries for EUCs will be the next major innovation.

[alcatraz]

13 hours ago, goatman said:

i used to think that but i found when testing batteries that the larger batteries like a 26650 or 21700 run cooler than a 18650 at 10 amp draw although it could have just been the cells that i was testing. i even had to stick one 26650 in a cardboard box with the lid closed to get it up to a good  temperature to get good capacity out of it.

i never really dove into it, i feel trapped like a chicken sitting on an egg when testing batteries, its not my cup of tea, but i think the 4680 and some other cells have multiple tabs inside

 

Compare temps at 1C discharge or a fixed C value. Not fixed current.

[goatman]

1C is fixed current 

[alcatraz]

34 minutes ago, goatman said:

1C is fixed current 

Ehh.... 

Not when comparing different capacity cells.

Were all cells you compared of the same capacity?

[goatman]

nope 

at first i was  testing to just test and learn and by the end of it all i found cell temperature,  not C rate or amp draw, was more important 

some people dont want to see cell temps go over 25 celsius or more than 1C discharge

i dont want a 30 pound battery pack.

 i chose 10 amps because you have  these 18650 "10 amp" cells being life cycled tested  at 1 C not  3C or 4C

the high powered cells were being life cycle tested  at like 5C or 8C but not 10 amps

common battery packs are 4p and controllers at 20 or 40 amps, so 5 amp or 10amp/cell

 i never bothered with 1 C testing, there's alot of 1 C test data out there 

traction devices like PEVs will be fluctuating from what 5 to 60 amps and throw in some regen .

a 4p pack of 5000 mah cells will be running  anywhere from 0.25C to 3C and upto about  1C regen and might be ridden in hot temps and cold temps

Edited June 8, 2022 by goatman

[alcatraz]

25 minutes ago, goatman said:

nope 

at first i was  testing to just test and learn and by the end of it all i found cell temperature,  not C rate or amp draw, was more important 

some people dont want to see cell temps go over 25 celsius or more than 1C discharge

i dont want a 30 pound battery pack.

 i chose 10 amps because you have  these 18650 "10 amp" cells being life cycled tested  at 1 C not  3C or 4C

the high powered cells were being life cycle tested  at like 5C or 8C but not 10 amps

common battery packs are 4p and controllers at 20 or 40 amps, so 5 amp or 10amp/cell

 i never bothered with 1 C testing, there's alot of 1 C test data out there 

traction devices like PEVs will be fluctuating from what 5 to 60 amps and throw in some regen .

a 4p pack of 5000 mah cells will be running  anywhere from 0.25C to 3C and upto about  1C regen and might be ridden in hot temps and cold temps

I thought you were interested in the coolest running cell. Then you have to compare at similar C values, be it 3C or whatever.

[goatman]

i started looking for a cell that could handle 10 amps with a good life cycle

 

[Begodecrashtestdummy]

On 6/6/2022 at 4:52 PM, 360rumors said:

CNBC posted a story that a manufacturer of solid state batteries is beginning a pilot production for EV cars. Could this help take EUCs mainstream?

Not only could solid state batteries make EUCs cheaper but also lighter and more important, safer. I’m hoping they could be safe enough to bring on airplanes - in which case EUCs could become an essential traveling companion.

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2022/06/06/solid-power-begins-pilot-production-of-solid-state-ev-battery.html

What do you all think?

I like the fact you can charge a car in 15 minutes .how long would it take to charge and euc like a few minutes .that would be awesome 

[alcatraz]

I think we need Panasonic/Sanyo/Samsung/LG to start production long before solid state is cheap enough to be put in eucs.

[Sary]

"Solid-state battery" is the most promising and most invested technology path, but in view of its many difficult bottlenecks in materials, preparation, cost, etc., the road to commercialization is a long way to go.

[Freeforester]

Just around the corner, eh? 

[Funky]

Just around the corner, eh?

Which corner doh? First, second, third, fourth? Second round a'round? One can go around infinite corners..

 

All i know - We want it. When do we want it? Now!

 

Edited November 10, 2022 by Funky

[alcatraz]

The industry wants to write about news and get people excited. Truth is it could take a long time before prices to drop, regardless if it's available. Also, long term ownership is going to be a mystery for any early adopters.

Progress is good but realistcally... it could take a while.