EUCs can be dangerous

[.....]

6 minutes ago, bkw said:

Update:

I get it now. PSI, PSI, PSI.

I've been riding around lately compounding the belief that "EUCs are indeed one of the more dangerous PEV out there". I felt this way because when I rode the 16x i felt incredibly unstable and squirrely. For instance, I would riding and the slightest movement of foot position, the EUC would start to wobble; the slightest breeze would made me feel like I was attached to a parasail.  I would be riding and I felt 40% confidence in the safety and control of the thing; felt like any unpredictable hole or movement had a chance of throwing me off.

As of now, I'm 450 miles into riding this thing as my first EUC. I've known for a while the importance of PSI and stability, but I could of swore I lowered the PSI -- so much so, I was convinced I was riding low PSI and still it felt squirrely. I went to take a quick break from riding and decided to lower the pressure even more in the tire. I let out what I thought to be a considerable amount of air from the tire. Then, all the sudden, I could accelerate with no wobbles, I could break with very little wobbles, the turning didn't feel like I was riding on a thin string, wind didn't blow me around like a feather, and most importantly my CONFIDENCE went up 100%. It was a night and day difference in how I rode and how I felt on the thing.

I made this update because it shows how confidence in riding is linked to the stability of your EUC, which, at least for me, is almost always a PSI thing.

So my views on EUCs being "dangerous" -- well, I am beginning to understand why so many people defend the safety of them when you're experienced.

Did I mention lowering my PSI made IT FUNNER TO RIDE AS WELL!?

FIrst mistake is when people are new and they think a tire guage helps. You gotta find YOUR PSI before adhering to the number. I advise people to air it up a little high, ride some, let some out then ride more. Keep doing that until it feels TOO low.  Once it feels low, add 2spi and try again DO NOT use a guage until you feel its where you like it,  as the numbers will simply influence you. Ride by feel and THEN check the stats! GLad you're getting it figured out. Fwiw, I ride at pressures most people feel are too low. GUess what? IDGAF because my wheel isnt ridden by 'most people'.

Edited January 19, 2022 by ShanesPlanet

[BKW]

4 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

FIrst mistake is when people are new and they think a tire guage helps. You gotta find YOUR PSI before adhering to the number. I advise people to air it up a little high and let it out then ride. Keep doing that until it feels TOO low. DO NOT use a guage, as the numbers will simply influence you. Ride by feel and THEN check the stats! GLad you're getting it figured out. Fwiw, I ride at pressures most people feel are too low. GUess what? IDGAF because my wheel isnt ridden by 'most people'.

This is a very good point because I could of swore I lowered my PSI to 32 (i could of been wrong), which is the reason why I didn't touch the PSI for a while. I let out a CONSIDERABLE amount of air and all the sudden it felt like I was a whole new rider -- the EUC felt incredibly stable. I don't even know the PSI of it right now but what I plan on doing is if I feel the EUC start to feel squirrely again, I'll just pull over and let out air until it feels stable again.

What bothered me more than anything before was how the slightest bit of wind would blow me around like nuts, making it feel very unstable. I thought the EUC was like a parasail. Lowering the PSI fixed that.

Edited January 19, 2022 by bkw

[.....]

8 minutes ago, bkw said:

This is a very good point because I could of swore I lowered my PSI to 32, which is the reason why I didn't touch the PSI for a while. I let out a CONSIDERABLE amount of air and all the sudden it felt like I was a whole new rider -- the EUC felt incredibly stable. I don't even know the PSI of it right now but what I plan on doing is if I feel the EUC start to feel squirrel again, I'll just pull over and let out air until it feels stable again.

I only check my pressures after they feel odd. Tubes and tires may lose about 1lb of air every 2 weeks +-. Cold weather also makes a tire's pressure lower. Of course, if you warm it by riding, pressures come back up. I can tell when my wheels are 2-3lbs (10%) low from sitting, just by rolling and hopping for a few feet. I typically air them back up to what I have written down, and use the same exact tire gauge. Accuracy < consistency. Every few months I overinflate my tires by 5psi, just to see if perhaps I'm beginning to progress and would prefer a little less rolling resistance. So far, I always end up back at my 'normal' pressure. I can let air out and stop by feel. WHen I check it, its within 1 psi of what I've written on my compressor. Tbh, I am running the same pressures I decided upon, within the fisrt few months of riding each euc. Hell, even changing from stock to a pirelli, I ended up at the exact same pressure. 130lb street rider..  mten 20psi, sherman 20psi, 18xl 30psi. I like easy numbers. Fwiw, even a 2-3lb increase in pressure is easily noticeable. My pressures rely on comfort first. Second consideration is how it behaves at speed when I hit bumps. Too much air and it gets a little rowdy and bumps become bounces...

Edited January 19, 2022 by ShanesPlanet

[BKW]

1 minute ago, ShanesPlanet said:

I only check my pressures after they feel odd. Tubes and tires may lose about 1lb of air every 2 weeks +-. Cold weather also makes a tire's pressure lower. Of course, if you warm it by riding, pressures come back up. I can tell when my wheels are 2-3lbs (10%) low from sitting, just by rolling and hopping for a few feet. I typically air them back up to what I have written down, and use the same exact tire gauge. Accuracy < consistency. Every few months I overinflate my tires by 5psi, just to see if perhaps I'm beginning to progress and would prefer a little less rolling resistance. So far, I always end up back at my 'normal' pressure. I can let air out and stop by feel. WHen I check it, its within 1 psi of what I've written on my compressor. Tbh, I am running the same pressures I decided upon, within the fisrt few months of riding each euc. Hell, even changing from stock to a pirelli, I ended up at the exact same pressure.

Interesting. I am beginning to feel like the "feel" of it is probably the best way to gauge your PSI, as you've alluded to here.

I have a small hand pump with a gauge meter on it. Going to get a small electric pump. Much less hassle.

[TantasStarke]

On 1/19/2022 at 4:13 PM, bkw said:

Interesting. I am beginning to feel like the "feel" of it is probably the best way to gauge your PSI, as you've alluded to here.

I have a small hand pump with a gauge meter on it. Going to get a small electric pump. Much less hassle.

Get this to go with it, having a locking chuck instead of a screw-on one is such a game changer, and was absolutely necessary for my 16 inch wheel, couldn't screw the old chuck on. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07MX882J8

[Richardo]

I’m still waiting for someone’s clothing or hand to get sucked between the EUC’s spinning wheel and the housing. Thats an under-appreciated danger imo.
 

Makes thinking about the V12 test extra fun. 

[Breadsticks]

I fall less, and not as hard on my EUC. Esk8 put me in the ER 4 times. 
 

EUC I fell hard twice but it was my fault completely and neither put me the ER. I got up and kept riding.

one esk8 fall cost me 9 teeth. 
 

another one broke my stump(missing half my right arm) in the middle, and broke the tip off, and the tip that was broken off was sticking out my skin. And my knee split open 4” long and down to the bone. And my vision went white for 15 minutes. That was a board malfunction. Had a TSG pass on.  It really fucked my shit up but I’d do it 20 times in a row compared to loosing my teeth. That was my first fall. Had a bucket on but no full face. Im 33 with fucking dentures bro. Fuck. 
 

 

[BKW]

On 1/28/2022 at 3:28 AM, Breadsticks said:

I fall less, and not as hard on my EUC. Esk8 put me in the ER 4 times. 
 

EUC I fell hard twice but it was my fault completely and neither put me the ER. I got up and kept riding.

one esk8 fall cost me 9 teeth. 
 

another one broke my stump(missing half my right arm) in the middle, and broke the tip off, and the tip that was broken off was sticking out my skin. And my knee split open 4” long and down to the bone. And my vision went white for 15 minutes. That was a board malfunction. Had a TSG pass on.  It really fucked my shit up but I’d do it 20 times in a row compared to loosing my teeth. That was my first fall. Had a bucket on but no full face. Im 33 with fucking dentures bro. Fuck. 
 

 

Wow, man. Thanks for sharing this

[UniMe]

I find it interesting when I tell people unfamiliar with EUC's that I ride one, allot them sort of freak out a bit. They don't know how it balances, or how it would even be possible to ride one.

I try to keep thinking about my EUC on the same timeline that it took me to learn how to ride a bike. I started on a bike when I was about 4 and still remember the early crashes, scraped knees, and training wheels. It took me many thousands of hours to become 'good' on a bike, and 10's of thousands more to jump and do tricks on a BMX or mountain bike.

Learning to ride an EUC is unlike anything I have done before, there was no baseline of muscle memory to prepare me for it. It also took me a several months before I would ride beyond the speed I could run, just in case I needed to do a quick get off. After a full season on the wheel, I had only really begun to understand how I could ride one. No training wheels, but I did scrape up my arm falling off one really early on. Now my training wheels are full gear, elbow, knee, hand guards and a full face helmet. I'll probably always wear AGAT on my EUC, I also wear a seatbelt in my car.

A month is ZERO time on an EUC. Don't ride faster than you can walk or jog if you don't feel safe, think about being 5 years old and learning to ride a bike. Better yet, think about teaching an adult to ride a bike who had never been on one. They wouldn't be doing fast passing maneuvers, or going much more than 20kpm for a long time (if they had any sense).

Edited January 30, 2022 by UniMe

[Breadsticks]

I let some random dude ride my exn the other day. He pushed off and rode like he had 100 miles under his belt. It blew my mind

[Tawpie]

3 minutes ago, Breadsticks said:

He pushed off and rode like he had 100 miles under his belt.

I hate talented people like that (that's a joke, I don't really hate them, I'm jealous so bad I'm green). But I take solace in knowing that they missed out on the joy of that first 3.5 foot 'ride' when the "I can do this after all" sign turned on.

[Rolzi]

51 minutes ago, Tawpie said:

I'm jealous so bad I'm green

Noted lexicographic scholar, Homer Simpson: “I’m not jealous! I’m envious. Jealousy is when you worry someone will take what you have ... envy is wanting what someone else has.”

They can be used interchangeably but I always liked this quote.

Edited February 23, 2022 by Rolzi

[BKW]

Update:

Ever since I figured out my PSI was too high on my 16X I haven't had much squirrelly issues since. I feel more in control of the wheel. I have also got more experience since I started this thread and I'm starting to hit the max speed of the 16X without trying and thusly feeling limited by it. I've also started to ride more on the street when traffic is somewhat low and speeds aren't too beyond what the 16X can handle.

With all that said, my views of the danger of the EUC has lessened because of the control I've gained since realizing the PSI issue, as well as pushing the limits of my wheel. I understand better the realization of street riding with traffic when needed. I can also see myself doing the same thing when I get a faster wheel. I still think more speed equates to more danger on an EUC, so riding on a bike lane at SLOWER speeds is safer than riding at car traffic speeds alongside cars, regardless of bikes and pedestrians sometimes in the bike lane -- you can hit a bike going 15 mph and be relatively OK, but if you hit a car going 30 mph then danger drastically increases when riding in car traffic.

Most EUC riders I see here in NYC riding in car traffic. Most of the NYC riders I see have a faster wheel than mine. I can see myself doing the same when I get a faster wheel because I didn't necessarily get an EUC to be safe as much as experience it. Doesn't mean I don't think the bike lane is less safe due to speed restrictions. Blah blah blah

Edited February 28, 2022 by bkw

[mrelwood]

3 hours ago, bkw said:

I'm starting to hit the max speed of the 16X without trying and thusly feeling limited by it.

I hope you are aware that the 16X top speed (31 mph) is higher than what the wheel can safely handle. There’s too little power available above 25-26 mph, so be very careful when approaching the top speed and don’t do fast accelerations or braking. And don’t hit sudden bumps…

[.....]

Just now, mrelwood said:

I hope you are aware that the 16X top speed (31 mph) is higher than what the wheel can safely handle. There’s too little power available above 25-26 mph, so be very careful when approaching the top speed and don’t do fast accelerations or braking. And don’t hit sudden bumps…

Fixed it...

[BKW]

17 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

I hope you are aware that the 16X top speed (31 mph) is higher than what the wheel can safely handle. There’s too little power available above 25-26 mph, so be very careful when approaching the top speed and don’t do fast accelerations or braking. And don’t hit sudden bumps…

Thank you for reconfirming this to me, as I've been getting a little cocky lately and changed my first warning indicator starting at 28 mph. I'll lower it again to 25, or 26. I have yet had a cutout, but all due things come with time I suppose.

Is there anywhere anyone could recommend for 16X safety margins (youtube video, article, etc)? Or is this more common knowledge to not push your wheel to a certain point depending on its personal capabilities? In my own mind I just think not to push it too hard near its max speed, or to not push it hard when at low battery percentage. What would be your view of running the 16X around 27 mph when the wheel is fully charged?

[mrelwood]

2 minutes ago, bkw said:

Is there anywhere anyone could recommend for 16X safety margins (youtube video, article, etc)?

I guess it’s best to just search for relevant discussions from our forum. What I have stored in my mind is that many riders seem to limit the top speed to 25-27 mph. There are of course many who are successful hitting 31 mph without issues, but the ease of the ankle flick at those speeds is really concerning to me.

 The riders weight plays a huge role here though. So if you’re a light one, you are going to be ok with higher limits. Beefier guys probably best to stay below 25-27.

[Tawpie]

I'm a lightweight and have my alarm set at 25-26 (alarm) and 27 (tiltback). This is partly because that while I have a 1554 Wh battery, my control board is an XS and it's expecting only half that battery power so it might pull the plug on me early. The other partly part is that I don't want to faceplant, especially for a mile or two more per hour.

I also run EUC World and have an alarm set at 25% safety limit. If you have access to an Android, grab a copy of EUC World and record a tour. When you're finished with the tour you can go to the web and see what your safety margin is—recommendation in general is to try to keep it above 20% because what KS calls "safety margin" is more of the "how much do you have left before I can deliver no more and you get up close and personal with the pavement" (it's really the duty cycle of the motor drive, get the duty cycle to 100% and you have zero safety margin).

I haven't had the wheel cut out on me, but generally keep my speed to 20 mph and avoid riding with cars... so I don't need to do sudden accelerations at speed. Bumps when you're near top speed are especially dangerous, they're an instantaneous demand for more power that you just don't have available.

New rider overconfidence is something that's usually reset by a crash. I always recommend caution, but I'm allergic to rehab so take that into consideration.

[East Coast]

On 1/19/2022 at 4:05 PM, bkw said:

This is a very good point because I could of swore I lowered my PSI to 32 (i could of been wrong), which is the reason why I didn't touch the PSI for a while. I let out a CONSIDERABLE amount of air and all the sudden it felt like I was a whole new rider -- the EUC felt incredibly stable. I don't even know the PSI of it right now but what I plan on doing is if I feel the EUC start to feel squirrely again, I'll just pull over and let out air until it feels stable again.

What bothered me more than anything before was how the slightest bit of wind would blow me around like nuts, making it feel very unstable. I thought the EUC was like a parasail. Lowering the PSI fixed that.

Curious where do you have your PSI now? I'm guessing weight and maybe height play a part in what one is comfortable for PSI, can you share your height and height? I'm still trying to figure out the best PSI for myself. eWheels had me start at 30 w/ my weight and height.

[.....]

1 hour ago, East Coast said:

Curious where do you have your PSI now? I'm guessing weight and maybe height play a part in what one is comfortable for PSI, can you share your height and height? I'm still trying to figure out the best PSI for myself. eWheels had me start at 30 w/ my weight and height.

Ks18XL.  130lb 6'3" street rider. I keep my 18XL at 30psi. Its about as stiff as I can make it, before the 'high speed' (27mph max haha) bumps become rebounding bounces. In contrast, I ride my sherm and mten at 20psi. I am admittedly on the softer pressures on ALL my wheels. Its a balance between comfort, rim protection and ease of user input. I always suggest to start HIGH pressure and ride. Lower it a little and ride. Keep loweing it until it simply feels too flat or sloshy. If it takes too much lean to get going or the rim feels in danger, stop. Get the tire gauge and check. Whatever pressure you find, raise it by 5psi and repeat. Eventually you will come to find an exact pressure you prefer for such riding styles. Every now and then, overinflate and redo the test. As you progress, you may find you want higher pressures.. The exact number psi doesnt matter, if you dont use the same tire gauge. Its consistency you are after, and youll find little need for a guage after a season or two. Pressure by ride feel is VERY accurate once you get atuned to it. I check my tire pressure before EVERY ride. I simply bounce my wheel and I know if its flat at least. After 30', I know if its too low by 2psi. Tires dont typically gain air, but a good tube tire, leaks air at a consistent rate.

Edited March 10, 2022 by ShanesPlanet

[East Coast]

5 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

Ks18XL.  130lb 6'3" street rider. I keep my 18XL at 30psi.

Thx! I'm your weight and 5'4'' and have mostly been using 30psi will keep what you said in mind as I pick up speed later on

[.....]

6 minutes ago, East Coast said:

Thx! I'm your weight and 5'4'' and have mostly been using 30psi will keep what you said in mind as I pick up speed later on

Im an 18XL fanboi. As far as 'safety' goes, the 18XL is among the top. Or at least, its reliable and that equates to safety. The 18XL has a top speed of 27mph and a conservative tiltback at that speed. I also use eucw to monitor power thresholds. Its a durable design shape and simply laid out wheel for sure. RollNZ makes a cover for them as well. At any rate, tire pressure is pretty rider specific. If you plan jumping up and down curbs a lot, or are not accustomed to taking the bumps with your knees, aim for the higher pressure you can manage. Its all compromises, but damaging a rim is not really an acceptable one imho. Anyhow, check my vids in my signature(shameless self promo) if you wanna see me riding my beloved XL. Fwiw, I began on an 18L as my first....

Edited March 10, 2022 by ShanesPlanet

[East Coast]

1 minute ago, ShanesPlanet said:

The 18XL has a top speed of 27mph

I'm guessing there's 2 versions of it? The site and someone I know who got it a month apart from me said the max speed is 31 mph w/out getting a tilt back

https://www.ewheels.com/product/new-king-song-18xl-1554wh-battery-2000w-motor/?attribute_pa_colour=black-matte

[.....]

7 minutes ago, East Coast said:

I'm guessing there's 2 versions of it? The site and someone I know who got it a month apart from me said the max speed is 31 mph w/out getting a tilt back

https://www.ewheels.com/product/new-king-song-18xl-1554wh-battery-2000w-motor/?attribute_pa_colour=black-matte

27mph ACTUAL on the 18xl. The 31 is overstated. The wheel is reporting lies. Opinions vary about why, but I like to suspect its simple marketing. IN the world of euc, Speed and distance is somehow a fluid concept, not an actual measurement..    I can ride tiltback on my 18xl, and yes, it 'reports' 31mph. You can calibrate this in apps, but its not changing the lies the wheel reports, its simply adjusting for them. I dont bother, as I dont really care. Either way, its too slow for 35mph traffic.

Edited March 10, 2022 by ShanesPlanet

[BKW]

3 hours ago, East Coast said:

Curious where do you have your PSI now? I'm guessing weight and maybe height play a part in what one is comfortable for PSI, can you share your height and height? I'm still trying to figure out the best PSI for myself. eWheels had me start at 30 w/ my weight and height.

I'm 5'11, probably around 178lbs. I can't tell you the PSI anymore for what I ride because I haven't checked it since I lowered it. I've literally rode the same PSI since that last post and it's absolutely fine. I put slime in the tire when I first got it and this probably helps keep the PSI relatively stable when not riding. But yeah, I don't know the PSI. I've been wanting to buy a separate pressure gauge, but I'm not even sure that's necessary as I hear every wheel PSI is different, so it makes sense to me to go by feel -- if the wheel is too squirrelly then I know now for certain the PSI is too high; if it's tow, then I should be able to feel it too (sluggish when turning, feeling harder when I hit bumps, etc).

Update:

I'm actually happy you revived this thread because I wanted to give another update lol. The PSI really was a game changer for me. Before I realized the importance of the PSI I was literally riding around thinking I may of made a mistake buying the EUC because I didn't enjoy riding it because I was ALWAYS thinking about how unstable it felt. I felt like at any moment something strange could happen and it'd knock me around, the wind could blow me like a feather, the smallest bump could give me wobbles, slight movements were squirrelly, my legs were tired always trying to keep balance, etc. But now I've gotten to a point where I'm in super control of the wheel, and pretty much "outgrown" it because I'm not really trying and hitting the max potential of the wheel with ease. My thoughts about riding in traffic, etc., has changed because the amount of control I've gained -- I do it in NYC traffic sometimes because there are areas with no bike lanes and I'm often going as fast or faster than traffic in these areas. The control of the wheel is what has changed the most. Before I felt like the ebike I rode for deliveries was on a another level better in control aspects, but I feel like the EUC on par with that now. And then understanding how wheels like the sherman supposedly have a very stable riding experience due to its weight -- adding on top of that it's speed -- it is even more convincing why I can understand riders cruising with traffic. It's pretty cool how my thoughts have changed on it, BUT anyone with half a brain knows which is safer: riding at low speeds in the bike lane or riding at high speed in traffic. It's just the confidence and control that has changed for me.

Edited March 10, 2022 by bkw