Help!!! New problem with my "new" S18!!!

[Paulo Mesquita]

hello again...I wish I wasn0t posting this, but I have no alternative. 

My new S18 (that may of you have read that when it arrived in June, burned the motherboard only after 14kms)... gave me a new problem yesterday, on my second ride with it after it came back from MyEWheel in Bulgaria, with the MB repaired:

As you may know I do a regular circuit around my major condo & village area that is ALLWAYS around 30kms to 35kms long.

Both my KS 16X and my KS S18 (on it's 1st ride) lose about 50% to 58%(windy days) of battery charge. 

Well, THIS IS THE PROBLEM: yesterday while riding the KS S18 and when I was a little over 30kms into the ride (and almost finishing). I had a strong tilt back when riding at 20km/hour. When I looked at my Spector smartwatch I saw that the battery was down to 20%!!!!

I was about 800mts from home and while riding very slow trying to get home, every 30 seconds or so the watch showed me the battery power dropping 1%. 

400m meters away from home it dropped to 5%, the wheel tilted back a lot and stopped completely. I started pushing it up the road (bloody tiring) and when I Got inside my gate (and still 200 meters from my apartment) the wheel - that was still tilted back - DECIDED TO START GOING BACKWARDS WHILE I DEPERATELY GRABBED ONOT ITS HANDLE. It did this a few times (4 or 5) and finally stopped being possessed.

I walked up my driveway and when I was up there, at about 80 meters from my door, I noticed the wheel was now at 10% of battery power). I switched it off and on again and it was flat levelled again, no tilt back. I got on it and slowly rode to my door.

I charged it up to 100% last night and went to bed. This morning and now at lunchtime it's stable at 97%.

HERE IS MY EUC WORLD TOUR DATA:

EUC World | Paulo Mesquita was on tour 17 hours ago - 34.4 km in Sintra

As you can see on my EUC World Tour registration, the wheel's battery went down from 93% to a very, very low 5%, to a point where I couldn't my regular and always identical ride.

Can someone please help me and explain why this happened? I fear that the wheel might have another problem and that I' have to send it back to MyEWheel for the second time.

Thank you for reading

 

[fbhb]

@Paulo Mesquita unfortunately you cannot expect to get as much range on the S18 as you were getting on the 16X due to the much smaller 1100wh and ONLY 3sp battery configuration (which can also suffer from heavy battery sag). The 16X is quite well known for it's considerably good range abilities, whereas the S18 is at the other end of the spectrum, especially if you are a heavier rider 

Edited August 1, 2021 by fbhb

[Paulo Mesquita]

1 hour ago, fbhb said:

@Paulo Mesquita unfortunately you cannot expect to get as much range on the S18 as you were getting on the 16X due to the much smaller 1100wh and ONLY 3sp battery configuration (which can also suffer from heavy battery sag). The 16X is quite well known for it's considerably good range abilities, whereas the S18 is at the other end of the spectrum, especially if you are a heavier rider 

@fbhb I see your point, but still how did I do 35kms on my 2sr s18 ride and come home with still 38% battery power, and on the 2nd ride, I couldn't finish the same ride, foi to having drained the battery life to only 5% when I hadn't even finished the same ride? 

[yoos]

I think one of the three parallel battery packs in your S18 is dead!

EUC.World reported 625.6 Wh consumption which seems realistic and corresponds to a much lower battery drain of 625.6/1110 = 56%.

Your previous tour (4 days ago) on the S18 is very similar, has a consumption of 635 Wh and 59% battery drain.

EUC World states that battery drained from 93% to 5%, so 87% drain. A simple estimate shows that 625Wh is 87% of 718Wh. So it looks like you were riding an S18 with 718 Wh instead of 1110Wh. This suggests that one of the three packs is dead! Indeed, 2/3 times 1110 is 740Wh -- very close to the estimated 718Wh!

Edit: just to add: Otherwise the whole tour looks completely normal (although with extreme voltage sag at the very end due to low battery, probably missing pack and uphill end of route). I hope that the third pack has perhaps just disconnected physically for some reason and is otherwise ok.

 

Edited August 1, 2021 by yoos

[Paulo Mesquita]

2 hours ago, yoos said:

I think one of the three parallel battery packs in your S18 is dead!

EUC.World reported 625.6 Wh consumption which seems realistic and corresponds to a much lower battery drain of 625.6/1110 = 56%.

Your previous tour (4 days ago) on the S18 is very similar, has a consumption of 635 Wh and 59% battery drain.

EUC World states that battery drained from 93% to 5%, so 87% drain. A simple estimate shows that 625Wh is 87% of 718Wh. So it looks like you were riding an S18 with 718 Wh instead of 1110Wh. This suggests that one of the three packs is dead! Indeed, 2/3 times 1110 is 740Wh -- very close to the estimated 718Wh!

Edit: just to add: Otherwise the whole tour looks completely normal (although with extreme voltage sag at the very end due to low battery, probably missing pack and uphill end of route). I hope that the third pack has perhaps just disconnected physically for some reason and is otherwise ok.

 

@yoos I also thought that, but then it charged back to 100%. Doesn't that mean that the battery oack recovered? 

[yoos]

@Paulo MesquitaNo, the 100% means that the two remaining packs have fully charged by successfully achieving the max voltage. Usually, if a wheel does not charge to 100%, it means that some cells in a pack are damaged. In your case apparently all cells are in order, but a whole pack is missing  Imagine you had an 16XS (777Wh, 3 packs) instead of your 16X (1554Wh, 6 packs). Both wheels charge to 100% and discharge to 0%, but the 16XS drains twice as fast in terms of percentages and thus has half the range. That's apparently what happened to your wheel -- one pack seems absent (dead or disconnected or something else -- no idea if this can be deduced without disassembling)

[yoos]

16 minutes ago, Paulo Mesquita said:

Doesn't that mean that the battery oack recovered? 

There is certainly a chance the pack recovered. You could test this by going for a modest tour (10km perhaps?), if you are not afraid, and look at the consumption vs battery drain percentage. Then you [or I, or anyone with the tour stats at hand] could again estimate the total energy capacity of the wheel. 

Still, the "missing/dead/disconnected pack" is a theory (which seems very probable to me due to the tour stats) and may be incorrect. However, it is certain that something was wrong with your wheel during the tour

[Paulo Mesquita]

10 minutes ago, yoos said:

There is certainly a chance the pack recovered. You could test this by going for a modest tour (10km perhaps?), if you are not afraid, and look at the consumption vs battery drain percentage. Then you [or I, or anyone with the tour stats at hand] could again estimate the total energy capacity of the wheel. 

Still, the "missing/dead/disconnected pack" is a theory (which seems very probable to me due to the tour stats) and may be incorrect. However, it is certain that something was wrong with your wheel during the tour

@yoos I'll do that tomorrow, thanks. I'll do a 10km tour and the close that tour, for a detailed data chart.

Then I'll do a 2nd tour just insist to see if the problem develops again. 

[Paulo Mesquita]

20 minutes ago, yoos said:

@Paulo MesquitaNo, the 100% means that the two remaining packs have fully charged by successfully achieving the max voltage. Usually, if a wheel does not charge to 100%, it means that some cells in a pack are damaged. In your case apparently all cells are in order, but a whole pack is missing  Imagine you had an 16XS (777Wh, 3 packs) instead of your 16X (1554Wh, 6 packs). Both wheels charge to 100% and discharge to 0%, but the 16XS drains twice as fast in terms of percentages and thus has half the range. That's apparently what happened to your wheel -- one pack seems absent (dead or disconnected or something else -- no idea if this can be deduced without disassembling)

Damn, I just got it back. If you're right I'll have to send it back a 2nd time in two months. This is getting ridiculous and I'm starting to get fed up with this S18 wheel, Kingsong and the entire process. 😡😡😡😡😡😡

[CarlW]

When encountering potential battery issues like this, are there increased chances of combustion?

[Paulo Mesquita]

Just now, CarlW said:

When encountering potential battery issues like this, are there increased chances of combustion?

I don't know much, but since I read a lot about it in the past months, and from what I gathered.... yesterday after I arrived home I charged the S18 outside on the balcony.... just in case!

[mrelwood]

54 minutes ago, CarlW said:

When encountering potential battery issues like this, are there increased chances of combustion?

Theoretically the absent pack could be caused by a bad connection, in which case the connection could become intermittent. If one pack has not been in use, it’s voltage will be vastly different to the other packs, so the intermittent connection connecting them could be disastrous.

 Then again, I don’t know if the S18 has a more developed logic for the battery pack handling, like the V11 has.

 But a broken BMS or a section of the main board could be a more probable cause for the issue.

[Paulo Mesquita]

22 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

Theoretically the absent pack could be caused by a bad connection, in which case the connection could become intermittent. If one pack has not been in use, it’s voltage will be vastly different to the other packs, so the intermittent connection connecting them could be disastrous.

 Then again, I don’t know if the S18 has a more developed logic for the battery pack handling, like the V11 has.

 But a broken BMS or a section of the main board could be a more probable cause for the issue.

@mrelwood what do you mean by disastrous? 

[Dughuze]

I recently got a new S18. (120 miles on it) when I got it the on/off button would not turn off the machine (thought I was doing something wrong) then it progressed to not being able to turn it off and it would not auto off. Got a new motherboard on warranty.  Put that in and now the S18 freaks out when I turn it on. 

 

Thank God I bought it from ewheels. They are super responsive. This is my first KS wheel and likely my last. Love my Inmotion V11, the KS issues s are me

[Paulo Mesquita]

2 hours ago, Dughuze said:

I recently got a new S18. (120 miles on it) when I got it the on/off button would not turn off the machine (thought I was doing something wrong) then it progressed to not being able to turn it off and it would not auto off. Got a new motherboard on warranty.  Put that in and now the S18 freaks out when I turn it on. 

 

Thank God I bought it from ewheels. They are super responsive. This is my first KS wheel and likely my last. Love my Inmotion V11, the KS issues s are me

@Dughuze the KS 16x is a hell of a great wheel. The best I've had. Unfortunately the S18 is becoming quite a disappointment to me. But it's my fault, for I was warned.

My problem is that the dealership I bought from is in Bulgaria while I'm in Portugal.... 😬😬😬😬

Edited August 1, 2021 by Paulo Mesquita

[.....]

1 hour ago, Dughuze said:

I recently got a new S18. (120 miles on it) when I got it the on/off button would not turn off the machine (thought I was doing something wrong) then it progressed to not being able to turn it off and it would not auto off. Got a new motherboard on warranty.  Put that in and now the S18 freaks out when I turn it on. 

 

Thank God I bought it from ewheels. They are super responsive. This is my first KS wheel and likely my last. Love my Inmotion V11, the KS issues s are me

Dont judge ALL the KS lineup by the s18. I've had 4 ks18's and all have been simply marvelous. The s18 somewhat beat a little of the ks fanboi outta me, but I havent lost ALL hope for the future. Their proven lineup has been stellar for the most part. I'd say to enjoy the v11 and give another version of ks a try. Add some flavor to the stable? If you have a good suspension wheel, you are ahead of the game already. Maybe something smaller like the 16x, for when slower and techincal is the agenda for the day.

Edited August 1, 2021 by ShanesPlanet

[mrelwood]

6 hours ago, Paulo Mesquita said:

@mrelwood what do you mean by disastrous? 

Violent sparks, a melting connector, an overheating battery, toasted control board, battery thermal runaway, smoke, fire, explosions, thunderstorms, earthquakes…

 Maybe not the last two though, I’m not sure if I remembered them correctly… 

I wouldn’t turn this into a worry to much though, since an intermittent connection like that doesn’t seem the most probable issue based on the symptoms, and besides, I haven’t heard of such ever happening spontaneously to any KS wheel. It’s just a theory of what could be possible to be a cause for the symptoms.

[Tawpie]

I think it's time to declare that one a lemon, return it to the seller, and demand for a refund or a brand new wheel. Both problems have been serious, neither is particularly commonly reported, but sometimes the bad juju gets into a thing and the best course of action is to say goodbye. Besides, you're going to want an S20 anyway...

[fbhb]

29 minutes ago, Tawpie said:

I think it's time to declare that one a lemon, return it to the seller, and demand for a refund or a brand new wheel.

I honestly thought @Paulo Mesquita was indeed getting a brand new replacement S18, on the basis that the wheel failed on it's very first ride. I personally would not have been too confident with a fresh out of the box wheel being repaired rather than replaced, although I fully appreciate/recognise the logistics of being located in a different country than the seller!

On another personal note, I much prefer to carry out any work to my wheels that does need to be done myself so that I know it's re-built correctly replacing All the soft metal screws with quality fasteners and making sure All cables and connections are secure/safe!

Edited August 2, 2021 by fbhb

[.....]

29 minutes ago, fbhb said:

I honestly thought @Paulo Mesquita was indeed getting a brand new replacement S18, on the basis that the wheel failed on it's very first ride. I personally would not have been too confident with a fresh out of the box wheel being repaired rather than replaced, although I fully appreciate/recognise the logistics of being located in a different country than the seller!

On another personal note, I much prefer to carry out any work to my wheels that does need to be done myself so that I know it's re-built correctly replacing All the soft metal screws with quality fasteners and making sure All cables and connections are secure/safe!

Isnt it nice to be abe to trust your own ability over that of other 'techs'? Even nicer would be to not HAVE to. Sadly, parts and warranties can stop a man cold. I feel for you Paulo, but at least you arent alone. I feel REALLY badly for people who buy these and THEN realize a simple flat tire could become an issue.

I'm hoping this all gets solved in a satisfactory manner for you Paulo!

Edited August 2, 2021 by ShanesPlanet

[fbhb]

9 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

I'm hoping this all gets solved in a satisfactory manner for you Paulo!

My sentiments exactly, but I fear Paulo is getting to that point where he's about to say enough, is enough unfortunately!

[enaon]

17 hours ago, Paulo Mesquita said:

Can someone please help me and explain why this happened? I fear that the wheel might have another problem and that I' have to send it back to MyEWheel for the second time.

Thank you for reading

I had seen that happen on a couple s18's, if one of the back (half in voltage)  packs is not precent and the wheel is turned on, both back packs are excluded from the charging process.
 

We had to drain the battery of the front packs by running the wheel, and when all where leveled, a reset of the moherboard(all packs out, long hold on the button) was required for the back packs to be  operational. If indeed they changed your motherboard and they are not aware of that failsafe and turned the wheel on to see if it works before connecting both back packs, it could be that you only have a 2p wheel now, 30 km are normal.

 

Edited August 2, 2021 by enaon

[Paulo Mesquita]

3 hours ago, fbhb said:

I honestly thought @Paulo Mesquita was indeed getting a brand new replacement S18, on the basis that the wheel failed on it's very first ride. I personally would not have been too confident with a fresh out of the box wheel being repaired rather than replaced, although I fully appreciate/recognise the logistics of being located in a different country than the seller!

On another personal note, I much prefer to carry out any work to my wheels that does need to be done myself so that I know it's re-built correctly replacing All the soft metal screws with quality fasteners and making sure All cables and connections are secure/safe!

The problem with fixing a wheel is that I'm not stall savvy with mechanics, electricity etc... 

So I have to go through shopping all over again. 

[Paulo Mesquita]

2 hours ago, enaon said:

I had seen that happen on a couple s18's, if one of the back (half in voltage)  packs is not precent and the wheel is turned on, both back packs are excluded from the charging process.
 

We had to drain the battery of the front packs by running the wheel, and when all where leveled, a reset of the moherboard(all packs out, long hold on the button) was required for the back packs to be  operational. If indeed they changed your motherboard and they are not aware of that failsafe and turned the wheel on to see if it works before connecting both back packs, it could be that you only have a 2p wheel now, 30 km are normal.

 

This seems very important. @enaoncan I fix the problem now by a long hold of the button to reset thr motherboard, or is it too late for me? 

[fbhb]

1 hour ago, Paulo Mesquita said:

The problem with fixing a wheel is that I'm not stall savvy with mechanics, electricity etc... 

So I have to go through shopping all over again.

Paulo, I do appreciate that not All of us are able to carry out the work on our wheels ourselves, but as I mentioned in my post I truly expected that you were to receive a New replacement S18 under the circumstances!

A brand new replacement S18 would have (hopefully) ensured that you did not end up in this current situation, that may as mentioned by @enaon, possibly have resulted from your seller carrying out the work, but being unaware of the battery reset he mentions in his post.

Edited August 2, 2021 by fbhb