Jason McNeil Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 Apologies everyone for lack of activity over the past couple weeks: I've been recovering from a broken rib & some other minor injuries sustained from a GW MCM4 cutting out from under me... This was the first year I had the opportunity to travel out to Vegas for CES, mainly for the purpose to meet some business colleagues & catch-up with the rising star of the eWheels world, King Song. In the two years since I've been working with eWheels, it was the first occasion I opted to forego flying with a Wheel owing to the general hoverboard travel ban—those three days were the longest period I have been without a Wheel, & have to say that being demoted to pedestrian status is like superman being stripped of his superpowers, not something any of us Wheelers would willing surrender In contrast to other tradeshows, what probably distinguishes this year's event from the others is the notable absence of those manufacturers one would expect to be here; with no representation from Inmotion, AirWheel, IPS, GW & only the Ninebot P at the Segway/Ninebot booth [Correction: MV informs me that AW do have a presence at one of the other exhibit halls]. It is my belief that this diminution of enthusiasm is healthy for the industry, which needs serious Wheel makers to focus & concentrate on improving quality & sophistication of the single-wheel platform without trying to jump onto every new craze in the personal mobility market (AirWheel is a classic example of this lack of focus). It's difficult to see how another format of a self-balancing vehicle can better the single-Wheel concept for convenience, ergonomics, convenience, performance & general ride experience. King Song: King Song had their new 16" Wheel at center stage. Improvements from the October prototype: functional LED strips that extend around the sides of the Wheel & an improved durable handle design. In the very confined space one has to try it, I can report that it feels powerful & as would be expected more maneuverable/practical than the 18". However at 16.8kg it's quite a beast to lug around, so that handle will be essential when not ridden. Within the inner workings of the Wheel, I am delighted to announce that they have adopted my suggestion of integrating an active cooling fan that's activated when the board temperature exceeds 50°C. We'll have to test to see how effective this is in practice, since the airflow is fairly restricted—it will be an improvement, the question is is simply how much of one... it's another first in King Song's cap & demonstrate their commitment for innovation & pushing the boundaries with product development. One other important control-board upgrade is that they've doubled the burst capacitor to 2200µF 160106 KS Pedals Video shows the ground clearance turning with the new pedal design. They offer increased foot comfort with a slightly larger surface area & rubberized grippy contacts. 160106 KS Floppy Pedals When in the closed position, the pedals are not quite firmly held shut, Tina says it we be improved in the final release. Either way, it's not really that important. Exposed 16" shell without the side panels: I can't say that the wire strips holding the handle are the best I've seen. 160106 Segway/Nineboot Exhibit Had some interesting conversations with some Sr. Sales Managers—told that there was presence from the Engineering dept. at the show, but I couldn't find anyone... - The Mini Pro is going to be released in the US with exclusive launch on Amazon.com. The distributor is a large tier-one supplier called ESI; these guys are not specialists in mobility transport but they have access to all the top retail accounts like Best Buy, Walmart, Target, etc. Rumor is that they're expecting to launch with 50,000 units as the first order. - ESRP will be $1,300 (??!) with an introductory price of $950 on Amazon. I asked the rep if he thought US consumers would be prepared to pay such a high premium if they knew that a lower spec'd version (85kg max vs 100kg for the Pro) of the device is available in China for less than a quarter of the price, $315 vs $1300. Their rather lame excuse is that the US version is more powerful has slightly better range & a higher weight limit—has anyone in market research told the development team that nearly half of the adult male population in the US exceeds the 100kg weight limit?! Another interesting, but I suspect, rather implausible claim, is that in China alone the Mini has already sold 1.5 million units (that's not a typo)! My contacts in China also believe that this is a wild exaggeration; at this figure, even in China, the Mini would be universal & pervasive on the streets & public areas, which, I'm reliably informed, is simply not the case. 160106 FastWheel Ring & Eva FastWheel had a small booth demoing their Ring & improved Eva. The verdict on the Ring is not very good—remember this was a product that was supposed to be available in July of last year. It feels like the gearing system that they've packaged in it is fundamental flawed: it's loose, noisy & generally unrideable. The engineer claims the product remains a work in progress, if they can solve these significant deficiencies of the current design is far from certain. There is much better news about the Eva: around mid-2015 I had the intention of offering the Eva since it was quite cheap, light-weight, & had the right look as well. At that time the Wheel possessed many minor faults but fundamentally the Wheel's wheel handling was simply dreadful. Since then they have added a wider tire, released 26 updates to the Wheel's firmware, increased the pedal height & used a smoother plastic surface for the shell compounded these changes have had a dramatic overall effect, making the Wheel possibly the best in it's class (sub 10kg & $500 USD). It definitely deserves a re-evaluation. Jan 9th Edit: Added section on Ninebot/Segway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colestien Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 Great! Thank you very much. I've been cruising the net trying to find stuff. Cnet isn't covering any of the rideables, just friges and TVs . There was a mention of a FBI bust on one of the Hoverboard booths??!!. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esaj Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 How many battery packs can the KS16 house, 2 or 4? Hard to say from the picture, looks like there's room for only one per side (assuming the mainboard is placed sideways on top of the case)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSport Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 4 hours ago, Colestien said: There was a mention of a FBI bust on one of the Hoverboard booths??!!. http://gizmodo.com/feds-raid-hoverboard-booth-at-ces-1751726839 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
castShadow Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 Very exciting stuff. I still don't have a Kingsong but I like all three models. Good riding demo of the Fastwheel as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSport Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 That King Song in the second video is a Beautiful Wheel with those pedals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lizardmech Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 29 minutes ago, SuperSport said: http://gizmodo.com/feds-raid-hoverboard-booth-at-ces-1751726839 Isn't that thing in the almost 20 year old segway patent now owned by ninebot? The Chinese company should pursue damages against the departments involved and the USPTO for granting the same patent to multiple companies. How many US start ups do you now have trying to claim they invented self balancing vehicles in the last few years, 5 or so? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneWheel Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 This ONE Wheel need a cover to prevent injury for majority... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Vu Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 Hey Jason, airwheel is actually there since I visited their booth yesterday. They are at the westgate center north of the lvcc northhall. Plus I found a couple of other generic wheels. We should meet up sometime tomorrow on the last day. I have both my kingsong and gotway with me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colestien Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 I was able to register, but couldn't make myself drop $300. Now after missing it....well I'm kicking myself. A chance to check out several different Wheels. I could have even treated you guys to some home cooking. Not mine(G_d forbid) my sister is quite a cook. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musk Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 6 hours ago, lizardmech said: Isn't that thing in the almost 20 year old segway patent now owned by ninebot? The Chinese company should pursue damages against the departments involved and the USPTO for granting the same patent to multiple companies. How many US start ups do you now have trying to claim they invented self balancing vehicles in the last few years, 5 or so? Bloomberg mentioned that this is a "design patent" which by nature only covers the visual style of the object and not the underlying functionality. This is different from a utility patent, which is what most people normally think of as a patent. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-01-07/u-s-marshals-raid-hoverboard-booth-at-ces Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lizardmech Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 41 minutes ago, musk said: Bloomberg mentioned that this is a "design patent" which by nature only covers the visual style of the object and not the underlying functionality. This is different from a utility patent, which is what most people normally think of as a patent. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-01-07/u-s-marshals-raid-hoverboard-booth-at-ces I saw a link to the patent somewhere earlier, it looked like a utility patent that covers all self balancing vehicles like all the self balancing patents before it. Maybe they didn't use that one in the complaint though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason McNeil Posted January 9, 2016 Author Share Posted January 9, 2016 19 hours ago, esaj said: How many battery packs can the KS16 house, 2 or 4? Hard to say from the picture, looks like there's room for only one per side (assuming the mainboard is placed sideways on top of the case)? The side panels have a cavity for a 32 cell pack on either side, control-board is fixed horizontally above the Wheel (sorry, didn't catch a photo of this). Quite a bit of news from Ninebot to share. Added the below to the report. 160106 Segway/Nineboot Exhibit Had some interesting conversations with some Sr. Sales Managers—told that there was presence from the Engineering dept. at the show, but I couldn't find anyone... - The Mini Pro is going to be released in the US with exclusive launch on Amazon.com. The distributor is a large tier-one supplier called ESI; these guys are not specialists in mobility transport but they have access to all the top retail accounts like Best Buy, Walmart, Target, etc. Rumor is that they're expecting to launch with 50,000 units as the first order. - ESRP will be $1,300 (??!) with an introductory price of $950 on Amazon. I asked the rep if he thought US consumers would be prepared to pay such a high premium if they knew that a lower spec'd version (85kg max vs 100 for the Pro) of the device is available in China for less than a quarter of the price, $315 vs $1300. Their rather lame excuse is that the US version is more powerful has slightly better range & a higher weight limit—has anyone in market research told the development team that nearly half of the adult male population in the US exceeds the 100kg weight limit?! Another interesting, but I suspect, rather implausible claim, is that in China alone the Mini has already sold 1.5 million units (that's not a typo)! My contacts in China also believe that this is a wild exaggeration; at this figure, even in China, the Mini would be universal & pervasive on the streets & public areas, which, I'm reliably informed is simply not the case. 11 hours ago, Michael Vu said: Hey Jason, airwheel is actually there since I visited their booth yesterday. Hey Michael, sorry to have missed you, I flew back on Day 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colestien Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 @Jason McNeil Do you have pics of the Mini? Is this the one that is a step up from a hoverboard? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSport Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 I'd love to have one of these along with the One. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason McNeil Posted January 9, 2016 Author Share Posted January 9, 2016 There's a short video of it in action above, but I didn't think it was worth much attention to. Ninebot have some pictures/specs on their website but no Wh rating! http://www.ninebot.com/ninebot/ninebot-mini/canshu.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DS Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 Thank you Jason for giving us that info, I'm also interested in the new King Song 16" but will wait for more reviews and...for my location the shipping possibilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSport Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 One fun feature of the Mini is the Remote feature. You can drive it around using your app. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Clegg Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 On 1/8/2016 at 1:12 PM, Jason McNeil said: Apologies everyone for lack of activity over the past couple weeks: I've been recovering from a broken rib & some other minor injuries sustained from a GW MCM4 cutting out from under me... This was the first year I had the opportunity to travel out to Vegas for CES, mainly for the purpose to meet some business colleagues & catch-up with the rising star of the eWheels world, King Song. In the two years since I've been working with eWheels, it was the first occasion I opted to forego flying with a Wheel owing to the general hoverboard travel ban—those three days were the longest period I have been without a Wheel, & have to say that being demoted to pedestrian status is like superman being stripped of his superpowers, not something any of us Wheelers would willing surrender In contrast to other tradeshows, what probably distinguishes this year's event from the others is the notable absence of those manufacturers one would expect to be here; with no representation from Inmotion, AirWheel, IPS, GW & only the Ninebot P at the Segway/Ninebot booth [Correction: MV informs me that AW do have a presence at one of the other exhibit halls]. It is my belief that this diminution of enthusiasm is healthy for the industry, which needs serious Wheel makers to focus & concentrate on improving quality & sophistication of the single-wheel platform without trying to jump onto every new craze in the personal mobility market (AirWheel is a classic example of this lack of focus). It's difficult to see how another format of a self-balancing vehicle can better the single-Wheel concept for convenience, ergonomics, convenience, performance & general ride experience. King Song: King Song had their new 16" Wheel at center stage. Improvements from the October prototype: functional LED strips that extend around the sides of the Wheel & an improved durable handle design. In the very confined space one has to try it, I can report that it feels powerful & as would be expected more maneuverable/practical than the 18". However at 16.8kg it's quite a beast to lug around, so that handle will be essential when not ridden. That does seem very very heavy for a 16" wheel. The original solowheel 16" is less than 12 kg for example. I wonder what makes it so heavy? The extra batteries perhaps? On 1/8/2016 at 1:12 PM, Jason McNeil said: Within the inner workings of the Wheel, I am delighted to announce that they have adopted my suggestion of integrating an active cooling fan that's activated when the board temperature exceeds 50°C. We'll have to test to see how effective this is in practice, since the airflow is fairly restricted—it will be an improvement, the question is is simply how much of one... it's another first in King Song's cap & demonstrate their commitment for innovation & pushing the boundaries with product development. One other important control-board upgrade is that they've doubled the burst capacitor to 2200µF 160106 KS Pedals Video shows the ground clearance turning with the new pedal design. They offer increased foot comfort with a slightly larger surface area & rubberized grippy contacts. 160106 KS Floppy Pedals When in the closed position, the pedals are not quite firmly held shut, Tina says it we be improved in the final release. Either way, it's not really that important. Exposed 16" shell without the side panels: I can't say that the wire strips holding the handle are the best I've seen. 160106 Segway/Nineboot Exhibit Had some interesting conversations with some Sr. Sales Managers—told that there was presence from the Engineering dept. at the show, but I couldn't find anyone... - The Mini Pro is going to be released in the US with exclusive launch on Amazon.com. The distributor is a large tier-one supplier called ESI; these guys are not specialists in mobility transport but they have access to all the top retail accounts like Best Buy, Walmart, Target, etc. Rumor is that they're expecting to launch with 50,000 units as the first order. - ESRP will be $1,300 (??!) with an introductory price of $950 on Amazon. I asked the rep if he thought US consumers would be prepared to pay such a high premium if they knew that a lower spec'd version (85kg max vs 100kg for the Pro) of the device is available in China for less than a quarter of the price, $315 vs $1300. Their rather lame excuse is that the US version is more powerful has slightly better range & a higher weight limit—has anyone in market research told the development team that nearly half of the adult male population in the US exceeds the 100kg weight limit?! Another interesting, but I suspect, rather implausible claim, is that in China alone the Mini has already sold 1.5 million units (that's not a typo)! My contacts in China also believe that this is a wild exaggeration; at this figure, even in China, the Mini would be universal & pervasive on the streets & public areas, which, I'm reliably informed, is simply not the case. 160106 FastWheel Ring & Eva FastWheel had a small booth demoing their Ring & improved Eva. The verdict on the Ring is not very good—remember this was a product that was supposed to be available in July of last year. It feels like the gearing system that they've packaged in it is fundamental flawed: it's loose, noisy & generally unrideable. The engineer claims the product remains a work in progress, if they can solve these significant deficiencies of the current design is far from certain. There is much better news about the Eva: around mid-2015 I had the intention of offering the Eva since it was quite cheap, light-weight, & had the right look as well. At that time the Wheel possessed many minor faults but fundamentally the Wheel's wheel handling was simply dreadful. Since then they have added a wider tire, released 26 updates to the Wheel's firmware, increased the pedal height & used a smoother plastic surface for the shell compounded these changes have had a dramatic overall effect, making the Wheel possibly the best in it's class (sub 10kg & $500 USD). It definitely deserves a re-evaluation. Jan 9th Edit: Added section on Ninebot/Segway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MetricUSA Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 I am really disappointed with the pricing of ninebot 'thousandbuck' mini...everyone wanted $315 vehicle... Stupid Chinese PR... Anyway you can get Asian mini now for $400 on Amazon... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
playdad Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 That price is way over the top. My wife tried the Mini and says her own "hover"board felt more maneuverable and fun. The Mini (hardly different) is being sold in China for like US$305 at current FX rates. And the sales numbers must be inflated indeed... I have not seen any on the streets at all... and I live in the CBD of the capital Beijing. Lots of rich people here who can afford fancy toys. (I've seen EUCs and a few of the "Hovers") Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skylightica Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 1 hour ago, playdad said: That price is way over the top. My wife tried the Mini and says her own "hover"board felt more maneuverable and fun. The Mini (hardly different) is being sold in China for like US$305 at current FX rates. And the sales numbers must be inflated indeed... I have not seen any on the streets at all... and I live in the CBD of the capital Beijing. Lots of rich people here who can afford fancy toys. (I've seen EUCs and a few of the "Hovers") Interesting. How often do you see EUCs and hoverboards in China? Which you think is more popular in general, total number of sales wise, not just the numbers you see on the streets? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
playdad Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 @Skylightica Lol, your question is kinda hard to answer since you first ask about how often I "see" then, you go on to prefer sales numbers (real ones would be hard to obtain!) rather than what I see. Anyway, I'll break it down into 2 parts. 1. I don't actually see EUCs or "hover"boards in Beijing that often. Quite rarely actually. But there could be several reasons for this. For one, while there are many people here who could afford one, the car is still the preferred form of transport in a city that is rather big and polluted. This is especially amplified during the cold Winter season.. it gets bitterly cold (as low as -10 deg C with spikes down to -20 deg C) and the air tends to be horrible. Also, while there are "bicycle lanes" suited for EUCs in many areas, Chinese drivers and electric bikes don't have a good rep. "Hover"boards will have a even harder time in Beijing unless you live near a park. Lots of uneven ground and kerbs with no sloped entries/exits... it's really only usable in parks. Secondly, I live in the CBD... and most "normal" people don't live here. They work here then go home which is usually much further away. The people who live in the CBD prefer Ferrarris and Lambos for "toys". By the "people", I meant those who truly live in expensive apartments here and not the ones who are forced to share cheap rooms provided by employers. This means that I don't really get to see "normal" neighborhoods and lives. 2. Actually, I don't think either (EUCs or "Hover"boards) does very well in the local Chinese market. I once saw a discussion on a Chinese forum similar to this where one seller complained about how hard it was to sell these things in China.. and wondered why the foreigners were the main market for him. Another seller remarked that locals didn't really take to new things well and it was still early in the product cycle, whereas foreigners liked playing with new toys and thus were willing to adopt them sooner. I think this pretty much hit the nail on the head. When I ride in parks, I rarely see EUCs or "Hover"boards either which was surprising to me, because they're the ideal place for it but I've seen both in about fairly equal numbers which implies the latter is selling quicker now. I would hazard a guess and say that EUCs have had greater exposure and more units sold simply because they've been around for much longer. I personally think that the "hover"boards are selling better because they are easier to pick up plus they look more casual and fun. I get the "look at that" and "oh that's cool" comments often when I ride in parks with my family. The funny thing is that we push our toddler around in his stroller, while we take turns to ride the "hover" and lots of parents (pushing their own strollers) seem to think it's a bloody good idea! Cruising around on the "hover" and casually pushing a stroller never fails to get other parents envious! I swear we help with hoverboard sales every time we go to the park. And very soon, I'm adding the EUC to our "promotional material". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisny Abby Posted February 23, 2016 Share Posted February 23, 2016 thanks for sharing. Although not go to the scene, but looking back to the report, will also feel very happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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