Newb question about wobble king song 16s

[Bone]

1 minute ago, Nostris said:

Stand tall…Head up, chest out and back straight!

Oh yeah, this is a great tip as well.  I started out thinking I could ride like Chooch right away and was wobbling like crazy.  Standing up totally straight with my chest out and shoulders back kept the wobbles away.  Eventually I started easing up a bit, or maybe riding like that just fixed my posture, hahah

[Roadpower]

11 hours ago, d0n said:

Thanks for all your advice folks! I like the leash idea. I'm going to try that while I learn to ride it. I don't want it smashing into a brick wall again.

I did the leash thing only to realize later it was too short lived to be of any real use outside keeping the wheel from running away. What you do to get through and over this stage is repetitively practice kicking off, and mounting / dismounting.  If you watched videos on learning odds are that many of them actually skipped these core aspects of riding or only lightly touched on it. The following video goes through core steps including mounting/dismounting drills.  He also covers foot and leg positioning in such a manner that it is easy to miss if you aren't paying attention but all these little pieces build the picture of what you want for control.

[GoGeorgeGo]

Happened to film this video the other day, just uploaded it this morning. Hopefully something in there can help you or someone else out! Keep at it, practice makes perfect, im sure you will conquer the wobble soon 👍

 

[Guest d0n]

great stuff guys thanks

[Cyrus Blades]

Your PSI is way too high, that’s going to wobble like crazy! I’m 210 and set my psi to 32-35 to get it smooth and cushy with no wobble. 

[null]

20 minutes ago, Cyrus Blades said:

Your PSI is way too high, that’s going to wobble like crazy! I’m 210 and set my psi to 32-35 to get it smooth and cushy with no wobble. 

Matter of taste though, I have my 16S at 40-50psi for 75Kg geared up.
But yes probably for a started it might be easier to avoid wobbles. But then you don't learn to handle them as they are dampened.

Edited June 8, 2021 by null

[Lex Smith]

16 hours ago, GoGeorgeGo said:

Happened to film this video the other day, just uploaded it this morning. Hopefully something in there can help you or someone else out! Keep at it, practice makes perfect, im sure you will conquer the wobble soon 👍

 

 

This was so timely - had my first serious wobbles this morning on my way to work.  Hit 40 km/h and thought my life was over.  There was no warning, just suddenly the craziest wobbles ever, so much so that it was difficult to brake or steer the thing.  Thankfully I stuck with it and muscled it back into submission but I can tell you my heart was pumping by that stage.  Rest of the ride into work was at a rather sedate 15 km/h.  I suspect upping my tyre pressure may have been a contributing factor (went from 35psi to 40psi).  Dropped it back to 35psi and will tentatively try some higher speed tomorrow.   Anyway found this video both helpful and encouraging so many thanks.

 

[hannesd]

i have my V11 at 26psi (1.8bar) and weigh about 75kg. no wobbles, only with higher pressures.

i suggest you experiment with lowering your tire pressure at 0.2 bar at a time.

[hannesd]

On 6/8/2021 at 11:13 PM, hannesd said:

i have my V11 at 26psi (1.8bar) and weigh about 75kg. no wobbles, only with higher pressures.

i suggest you experiment with lowering your tire pressure at 0.2 bar at a time.

adjusted my tyre pressure to 2.0 bar and tested even with 2.2bar, but returned to 2.0bar and liked the more carving character of the wheel ,as opposed to 1.8bar.

[.....]

On 6/7/2021 at 5:11 PM, d0n said:

great stuff guys thanks

So hows the DON coming along down there in hot a** Georgia? Tis been a cpla weeks. You're either on crutches or magic carpet by now...

[mrelwood]

Congrats to the OP on finding the greatest and most exciting hobby/transport in the world! I’ve got few tips to add to the discussion:

 Tire pressure. A suitable pressure depends on the tire size more than it does on the rider’s weight. 2.0-2.3 bars (30-35psi) on the V11 is roughly equivalent to 2.5-3.0 bars (38-45psi) on the 16S. You can set it at 40psi and forget about it for now.

 Foot position. This is one of the main reasons for beginner wobbles. If you stand too far back, you are essentially standing on the balls of your feet while riding. This causes your legs to tense up, which is what creates the wobbles. Cut off your toes, and then center your foot on the pedal.

 Stance. Another common cause for beginner wobbles. As you already probably found out, you were in a battle / fight-or-flight position. Since tense leg muscles is what creates the wobbles, you need to be relaxed while riding. Your knees need to be slightly bent at all times, but other than that, you need to be relaxed. A fighting position is not something you can easily stay on for 5 minutes, let alone a one hour tour. Upright, reaxed, bent knees.

Tire misalignment. It is rare but possible that a tire misalignment is adding to the wobble problem. If your 16S has a plastic handle, it’s the older version, and doesn’t have a lift kill switch. You can lift it up from the handle, and let the motor spin to full speed while you watch the tire. (Don’t worry, it will stop itself in a few seconds.) Some bobbing is normal and won’t affect the ride, but if the wheel is shaking your hand strongly, the tire or the rim is not straight and needs a little work. For a newer metal handle version you need to switch off the lift kill function from the EUCw app first.

Firmware. The 16S ride feel got improved to a way another level with the FW 2.0 year or two ago. I suggest checking if the EUCw app offers a FW upgrade, and install it if it does. Just follow the instructions in the app, and calibrate the wheel again afterwards. While calibrating, you can switch to a bubble level app after starting the calibration in EUCw, lay your phone centered on top of the wheel, and then press the power button to finish the calibration while holding the wheel as still as you can until it no longer beeps. I would recommend selecting the medium riding mode from the app for now.

 YouTube. Hundreds of thousands of riders have learned to ride before you, and luckily a few of them have made marvelous learning guides available, free of charge! No point in trying to reinvent the wheel. Search for “how to EUC” videos, and while you let your body rest, watch a few from the top of the list. The one from EUCO is my favorite as I see it as the most comprehensive guide.

 Good luck, and have fun!

[Guest d0n]

Thanks! I had no idea I could update the firmware. Doing that now. That added pedal angle and lateral adjustment   

How many miles have to be put on a new 16s before it will let me raise the annoying speed alarm above 11mph? I'm riding above that speed most of the time now and the wheel keeps beeping constantly. It's very annoying. 

I love the BT music capability of this wheel! It's not super loud but it is loud enough to hear it pretty well. Do any other wheels have speakers and BT music?  

After riding this euc 4 times and a total of less than 10 miles, I am slowly figuring out how to lessen my wobbles. I wasn't gripping the pads tight enough between my calves or in the right place on the pad surface. I am now gripping to the point that it hurts my inner shins. I suspect that pain will go away as I toughen that area of my legs up. Also, feet placement has to be near perfect AND like others mentioned, I have to relax and not be tense. Calibration and tire pressure seem to have a big effect too. I tried 25psi but that was too low. I settled for 30 and that seems good. At 40 psi, I was getting nearly constant wobbles BUT that was also my 1st and 2nd times riding an euc. Lots of practice makes wobbles lessen too I bet.

I am going back out tonight to get this wheel over 10 miles so maybe it will let me adjust the speed alarms higher?!

Edited June 25, 2021 by d0n

[mrelwood]

 

3 hours ago, d0n said:

How many miles have to be put on a new 16s before it will let me raise the annoying speed alarm above 11mph?

It has varied with different firmware versions, and unfortunately I’m not sure what the current one is. It used to be something like 100-200km, but it was later reduced to 10-20km.

 While you milk the miles, it’s important to learn the authority of the tilt-back! Beeps are one thing, but whenever you feel the wheel tilting, or fighting your greed to accelerate, do NOT fight back under any circumstances! It only does it because it’s nearing the wheel’s on capabilities and limits either on speed, power, battery, or just the preset max speed.

 People who “ride the tilt-back“ only do it because they need to experience the limits first hand. They never do it again after the first crash.

 

3 hours ago, d0n said:

Do any other wheels have speakers and BT music?

Almost all current wheels do.

3 hours ago, d0n said:

I am slowly figuring out how to lessen my wobbles. I wasn't gripping the pads tight enough between my calves or in the right place on the pad surface.

Sounds like you are not on the right track unfortunately. The pads are not to be “gripped” at all under normal riding. Being relaxed is #1, and you can’t grip and relax at the same time. The fact that gripping the pads hurts should be a hint strong enough that you might be doing it a bit wrong.

 Your riding muscles and their control have not developed yet. That’s why gripping the pads might feel like a good idea. But it’s not, you will only wear yourself out faster. What I think you should do instead is to concentrate on finding the near perfect foot placement easier, so that you can learn to relax in the optimal riding position.

3 hours ago, d0n said:

I settled for 30 and that seems good. At 40 psi, I was getting nearly constant wobbles BUT that was also my 1st and 2nd times riding an euc.

30psi on the 16S is very low. It does stabilize the wheel which can feel beneficial right now, but it’s definitely not a pressure you should stay with going forward. It’s simply not safe for the wheel nor the rider.

Getting nearly constant wobbles while trying to ride for the first few times with an incorrect technique, posture and foot placement is normal, and not caused by the tire pressure. You will learn faster if you use a normal tire pressure than with one that hides the incorrect technique etc.

As soon as you can, it would be very useful to go to a local EUC meetup. We are generally a friendly bunch, and will gladly help a beginner out, also in ways that can only be done in person. 

If that’s not viable, one idea would be to shoot yourself mounting and riding on video, and ask us to see if there are any obvious issues you should concentrate on. Ask someone to hold the camera if you don’t have a tripod, but I wouldn’t try to hold a camera in your hand while riding just yet.

 You will soon be hopping up the rest of the learning steps!

[Guest d0n]

Hey thanks for the advice. I agree that gripping tightly feels wrong but it's helped my wobbles. It's also killing my inner shins! LOL

Here's a quick video. I am trying to force myself to stand up straighter after seeing myself in this video. 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CQkGp5tnKQ9/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

The tiltback had a setting in the EUCw app that allowed me to set the speed to when the wheel tilted back (I think that's what the setting is for?). It was on 12 mph so i was riding the setback all the time basically. I changed it to 22mph and it seems better but still seems to correct me by tilting back at speeds lower than 22mph. 

Do you suggest 40 psi for a 185 lb rider? 

What's the difference between the soft, medium and hard modes? 

I'd love to ride with a group and learn more but haven't seen any groups on FB. I did start one if anybody is in the atlanta region. 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/243355303876227

 

thanks!

Edited June 26, 2021 by d0n

[Guest d0n]

What does min safety margin mean 

 

[CarlW]

I'm waiting on my first wheel, so will be no help with your riding questions.  I have spent a good deal of time trying learn about protective equipment for this hobby.  I think a majority would agree wrist guards, knee pads and a full face helmet are usually recommended.  

[Tawpie]

Kingsong reports a parameter they call safety margin. @Seba knows what it actually means, but to me it’s a measure of how close you came to a cutout during your last ride session. Chances are it’s an indication of the minimum instantaneous power margin, likely determined by the motor current switchs’ duty cycle (aka PWM) requested by the control board.

EUCW allows you to set an alarm the triggers on safety margin. I have mine set at 20% and don’t think I’ve ever triggered it.

Edited June 27, 2021 by Tawpie

[mrelwood]

5 hours ago, d0n said:

Here's a quick video. I am trying to force myself to stand up straighter after seeing myself in this video. 

Making the video was already useful, that’s great!

Although, standing straight is not an isolated thing. Your forward balance is not centered, which forces you to push your head forward like that.

 I’m going a bit deep with this, but I hope your ok with a little longer reply.

 What I’d try first is force yourself to stand half an inch or even slightly more forward. First, look at how far back your ankles are. Ankles hold all your weight, and they currently do it at the rear end of the pedals. For your Center of Gravity to be at the center of the pedal (required for keeping a steady speed), you currently have to put a lot of weight way forward from your upper body. That’s why you stand the way you do.

 What we usually use as a measure front to back is how the shoe hangs outside of the pedal on either end. Currently you hang more to the back, which makes for a suboptimal usage of the pedal’s real estate. Your toes don’t really need the pedal, as they aren’t useful for holding your weight for more than a few seconds. Your heel on the other hand is what should carry most of your weight, since it’s the only part of your foot that can do it without using muscles.

But since you have to be able to break, ie. lean backwards as well, you can’t put your ankle or heel at the center of the pedal.

These two are the determining parameters for the position you should set your feet at. Forward enough to be relaxed and in good posture, but rearward enough to be able to brake. Currently the first condition doesn’t come true. This forces your feet and calves to overuse the muscles, preventing your feet from relaxing.

 And that is why you wobble.

Wobbling is a symptom that tells you that your foot position and muscle usage is not right. Your head pointing forward is another symptom that is caused by the same issue. That’s why simply forcing yourself to stand more straight won’t help, as it doesn’t remove the cause.

 All this is one of the most common beginner mistakes. Luckily there’s an easy fix! Just stand a lot more forward. It will surely feel strange at first, but I’m sure that can be said about many things regarding riding, no matter how “correct” they are.

[Guest d0n]

15 hours ago, CarlW said:

I'm waiting on my first wheel, so will be no help with your riding questions.  I have spent a good deal of time trying learn about protective equipment for this hobby.  I think a majority would agree wrist guards, knee pads and a full face helmet are usually recommended.  

I bought wrist guards but they were too small so I am just using a good quality off road motocross glove for now. My first couple times out I was using my full face motorcycle helmet, klim motorcycle pants and fox knee/shin guards but it's so hot here that I'd be sweating in no time and hating life. I stopped riding for a while because I felt I needed all that gear and it was too hot. 

As I get better at riding, I feel pretty safe wearing a 1/2 helmet, gloves and the exoskeleton armored shirt. 

Edited June 27, 2021 by d0n

[Guest d0n]

mrelwood... thanks! So, my toes need to be quite a bit farther forward on the foot pads then? I was thinking my feet were too far forward and yesterday, I positioned them even farther back... which seemed OK but I still got frequent wobbles.

I haven't tried placing feet more forward yet. I see your logic... feet forward makes more of my weight forward, making me not have to lean forward with my upper torso to accelerate. I'm excited to try that today!

I think I will need a Vsherman soon! I've nearly maxed out the MPH on this already, without feeling incredibly unsafe. Originally, I thought that going 22mph on an EUC was crazy but now I see it's just a starting point.  

-Don 

Edited June 27, 2021 by d0n

[Tawpie]

2 hours ago, d0n said:

As I get better at riding, I feel pretty safe wearing a 1/2 helmet, gloves and the exoskeleton armored shirt.

Please don’t! Experience helps, but sh-one-t still happens. We had a local rider that was pretty good suffer a hardware failure that resulted in a zero warning face plant at 20 mph. Paraphrasing his words… “I thought I could pick my falls like when I was a skater, but I went down like a sack of potatoes”. His fall took out another (very good) rider, both were fine—their gear worked.

Protect your face. Protect your knees. And all the rest of the parts where you find having skin “on” to be convenient.

Edited June 27, 2021 by Tawpie

[Guest d0n]

I do have an arai xd3 motorcycle helmet that I pondered using on the EUC but it was $600 new. I would hate to scratch it up!  I suppose it'd be less expensive than a trip to the ER.  

My fox motocross knee / shin guards are horrible. They keep sliding down. I need to find some that don't do that. 

Edited June 28, 2021 by d0n

[Tawpie]

That’s a good looking lid! Take it out of the display case and “knock some new off it” (@ShanesPlanet)

[CarlW]

I'm in North Carolina so I can imagine the heat and humidity issues when combined with protective gear.  For helmets I think EUC folks lean towards full face Mountain bike helmets that are lighter, and have lots of venting holes.  dOn you probably know more about protective clothing than me.  I was thinking this Forcefield product with level 2 D30 pads with some type of highly breathable mesh might be a decent choice for me.  I was thinking it would be something I could where a t-shirt over.  For wrist guards and knee pads I'm leaning towards Demon products. 

 https://www.forcefieldbodyarmour.com/pro-xv2-air-range 

[.....]

14 minutes ago, Tawpie said:

That’s a good looking lid! Take it out of the display case and “knock some new off it” (@ShanesPlanet)

Sadly, I don't typically knock the new off helmets on purpose. Something to do with this rhetoric about how damaging a shell, undermines the pain and hasstle of wearing it.

 

@CarlW https://olympiamotosports.com/en-US/products/men/jackets/dallas-m-1

If you can get your hands on a dallas jacket, I'd reccomend. Its VERY cool wearing and dries fast if caught in rain. Its not overly durable, but in wet heat like our mountains, you can't have cool AND durable. From what I gather, us euc riders can go a little smaller on back padding than our moto counterparts. Good d30 is comfy but damn hot and doesnt pass air. Im putting in my smaller back pads for summer, as airflow and big back pads are an oxymoron. I trust my flexmeters and are comfy, but they are warm wearing.

Olympia pants and jacket shown with hoodie underneath as it was spring weather. The jacket IS very cool.

 

 

 

 

Edited June 28, 2021 by ShanesPlanet