WARNING!!! Recent Spate of Cracked/Faulty Rims including the New Wider Rim!

[Planemo]

Right, just remembered I took a pic of my MSX rim when I was fitting the Pilot 80/90 14. Its 30mm internal, which is why an 80 width tyre is indeed really squeezed. I can only assume that the V1 Sherman rim is wider, which is why I was getting so confused that you found the 80 ok.

Edit: although looking at each side of the rim being about 5mm, that would work out at 40mm external which is what you are saying the V1 Sherman rim is...now I'm really confused 

Edited October 23, 2021 by Planemo

[fbhb]

43 minutes ago, Planemo said:

I can only assume that the V1 Sherman rim is wider, which is why I was getting so confused that you found the 80 ok.

I did not measure the internal width whilst I had the tyre off the V1 rim, but from my external Vernier measurement of 40mm, I would be confident in saying that the internal on the V1 is similar to your photo at around 30mm...so go figure!

 

Edited October 23, 2021 by fbhb

[Planemo]

OK, looking at MC sizing charts, an 80 width tyre is best suited to a 1.85" (47mm) internal width rim.

Minimum recommended is 1.6" (40mm), widest recommended is 2.15" (54mm).

This would explain why the Pilot 80 was super squeezed on my 30mm MSX rim, but doesn't explain why it's OK on your V1 rim (if it's the same as the MSX).

[fbhb]

10 hours ago, Planemo said:

This would explain why the Pilot 80 was super squeezed on my 30mm MSX rim, but doesn't explain why it's OK on your V1 rim (if it's the same as the MSX).

I personally believe that with most tyres they have to be tried out first hand to find how well or otherwise they behave/fit on different rims/wheels!

Added to that, the Michelin Pilot cannot be directly compared to the Michelin City Pro, they are bound to have way different construction/handling/profile characteristics although made by the same, extremely reliable manufacturer!

This "trial and error" method can be evidenced particularly well in mine and  @supercurio's wildly differing experiences with the Michelin City Pro fitted to his 60mm rim and my 40mm rim, whilst at the same time his experience with the CST 6004 working so well on the 60mm rim, but it also works brilliantly on my S18 40mm rim! 

It's a lot of work to try different tyres for the sake of finding what works best, but it's sometimes the Only way to know for sure, as @supercurio Almost talked me out of fitting the Michelin but I'm so glad I went ahead anyway!

Edited October 24, 2021 by fbhb

[Planemo]

16 hours ago, fbhb said:

I did not measure the internal width whilst I had the tyre off the V1 rim, but from my external Vernier measurement of 40mm, I would be confident in saying that the internal on the V1 is similar to your photo at around 30mm...so go figure!

Yep, none of it is making any sense to me mate! All very odd!

16 hours ago, fbhb said:

I personally believe that with most tyres they have to be tried out first hand to find how well or otherwise they behave/fit on different rims/wheels!

You're right, ultimately it all comes down to the individual rider and what works for them. But getting in the ballpark is a good start, but when we have 2 road tyres that are sized the same, from the same manufacturer behaving (and fitting) totally differently on the same-ish sized rim it all gets a bit confusing!

16 hours ago, fbhb said:

Added to that, the Michelin Pilot cannot be directly compared to the Michelin City Pro, they are bound to have way different construction/handling/profile characteristics although made by the same, extremely reliable manufacturer!

True, but an 80/90 is an 80/90 really. They should be about the same width, especially when coming from a reputable manufacturer. I also expect the tyre profile on a 'sports' tyre to be more pointy by default (to give more rubber when leant over) but the difference between our 2 tyres seems to be staggering!

 

[Phi1osopher]

I broke mine too.    Ride at 35psi, weigh 200lbs, ride over lots of rocks...  V2 rim, received new in July.

 

 

 

Edited October 30, 2021 by Phi1osopher

[Not a machinist]

Cracked rims are a massive hazard when riding on a single wheel. Any manufacturer can have problems in their manufacturing process. This problem demanded immediate proactive attention by Sherman folks on all front, including here. They have not done this. I believe they know the problem and choose not to share with current owners. They have access to ALL original purchasers. If it was my rim that cracked, I would inform the Department of Transportation. I believe this would fall under their jurisdiction. 

 

If you are on one wheel, this is a life threatening failure and going down steps is a known use of an EUC. 

[Rich Sam]

On 10/30/2021 at 10:10 AM, Phi1osopher said:

I broke mine too.    Ride at 35psi, weigh 200lbs, ride over lots of rocks...  V2 rim, received new in July.

Sorry for the loss...   Bummer for sure to break a rim.  I do think the magic number is 40 PSI as I have not heard of many breaking at that pressure.  What kind of terrain caused this, and did you check pressure right before ride?  Some folks will go several rides before checking pressure and with the weather changing means lower temps which can translate to a much lower PSI than you thought.

[DjPanJan]

This scare me i ride all season 26+- PSI and my riding weight is +-130Kg (260+lbs)

No jumps or crazy stuff and my max speed is limited to 43km/h (26miles)

sherman V2 custom seat knoby kenda tire

 

Edited November 16, 2021 by DjPanJan

[Crowheel]

I am just in a process of assembling together motor and rim and o have a problem so please help.

Iam winding those black screws and when iam done I cant put hangers because they scratch on black middle part. I just cant push black plate far enought to fit all the way. I wonder if tightening main bolts will put the middle hole in place. No video is talking about that. Thanks!

[fbhb]

1 hour ago, Crowheel said:

No video is talking about that. Thanks!

The best video I am aware of that explains the whole process is this one by forum member @ShanesPlanet, so maybe this will be able to help you out:

 

[.....]

6 hours ago, Crowheel said:

I am just in a process of assembling together motor and rim and o have a problem so please help.

Iam winding those black screws and when iam done I cant put hangers because they scratch on black middle part. I just cant push black plate far enought to fit all the way. I wonder if tightening main bolts will put the middle hole in place. No video is talking about that. Thanks!

Hangers need be 100ftlbs and perfectly aligned. They should fit the slot in the shell, tho you will need pull it open (gently) to mitigate the pressure on the motor wiring as it comes thru. Thread the wiring thru prior to putting the motor in. I let the weight of the battey pack and case help, and merely lowered the shell into place as I watched cables and opened at the bottom. You shouldnt need to force anything. Be VERY vigilant about the wires and abrasion. If the hangers arent aligned perfectly, no amount of force will fix it, as they should be insanely tight. Be mindful to tighten the screws (motor cable) at the motherboard, but have battery disconnected and don't exert too much twist on the lugs attached to the board, where the screws go.  I used dielectric grease inside my connectors. You can use loctite on the motor screws, but they should have locking washers anyhow. I surely wish they had a better method, but it is what it is.. DO NOT use loctite anywhere near plastic. I used loctite on my hanger bolts, but it isnt likely they would back off, as much as loosen from metal distortion. 

Edited November 28, 2021 by ShanesPlanet

[.....]

On 11/11/2021 at 6:52 PM, Not a machinist said:

Cracked rims are a massive hazard when riding on a single wheel. Any manufacturer can have problems in their manufacturing process. This problem demanded immediate proactive attention by Sherman folks on all front, including here. They have not done this. I believe they know the problem and choose not to share with current owners. They have access to ALL original purchasers. If it was my rim that cracked, I would inform the Department of Transportation. I believe this would fall under their jurisdiction. 

 

If you are on one wheel, this is a life threatening failure and going down steps is a known use of an EUC. 

I agree, aside from that bold bit. No way should ANYONE inform the department of transportation. As far as they are concerned, these are not street legal vehicles. Even mentioning this to them, would be met with a laugh at the least and perhaps them being made aware that these euc's are made like crap toys. Last thing we need is to bring more light to the fact that these vehicles arent even built safely for road use. This is likely a matter for consumer affairs or some other form of basic watchdog group. Alas, no governing body has juristdiction over China, so its up to THAT govt, to enforce any disputes. We do have consumer law in the USA, but yeah... good luck. Hell, doesnt EU have some kind of 2 year warranty that is enforced on things sold in their country? Kind of goes against Gotway claiming to replace batteries yearly...

Edited November 28, 2021 by ShanesPlanet

[GothamMike]

On 11/28/2021 at 12:46 AM, ShanesPlanet said:

I agree, aside from that bold bit. No way should ANYONE inform the department of transportation. As far as they are concerned, these are not street legal vehicles. Even mentioning this to them, would be met with a laugh at the least and perhaps them being made aware that these euc's are made like crap toys. Last thing we need is to bring more light to the fact that these vehicles arent even built safely for road use. This is likely a matter for consumer affairs or some other form of basic watchdog group. Alas, no governing body has juristdiction over China, so its up to THAT govt, to enforce any disputes. We do have consumer law in the USA, but yeah... good luck. Hell, doesnt EU have some kind of 2 year warranty that is enforced on things sold in their country? Kind of goes against Gotway claiming to replace batteries yearly...

US DoT is not answering the phone. Have you been to a supermarket recently? 

Veteran is a small manufacturer, they should ensure their suppliers are making quality goods.  How many rim makers are there?

I try to keep the wheel at 40PSI

[EUC AZ]

I broke another one   Ewheels said this newest batch of rims is supposed to be stronger.

[.....]

1 hour ago, EUC AZ said:

I broke another one   Ewheels said this newest batch of rims is supposed to be stronger.

After I broke 2 rims, I'd repair it, sell it and move on. Either your ride style has to change, or the wheel does. I dont buy things to have to cater to them, so I know which decision I'd make. SOrry to hear about this, time money and lost mileage.

Fwiw, I wouldnt believe a word about the rims being stronger.  Not that I am calling e-wheels liars, but I think it got more to do with the alloy  and casting process, than design. I highly doubt veteran decided to become strict about the chinesium they use, as GOOD alloys are expensive. Likely, a slight redesign was made, but the same penny pinching ideals and alloys were used. Even if beign treated gently, a bad alloy is a bad alloy. They aint inspecting these more thoroughly either, as that would be expensive. Hopefully your next dice roll comes up solid. I have a v1 and v2 rim that havent broken yet. Still, I recognize chinesium when I see it.

[Rich Sam]

18 hours ago, ShanesPlanet said:

After I broke 2 rims, I'd repair it, sell it and move on. Either your ride style has to change, or the wheel does. I dont buy things to have to cater to them, so I know which decision I'd make. SOrry to hear about this, time money and lost mileage.

Fwiw, I wouldnt believe a word about the rims being stronger.  Not that I am calling e-wheels liars, but I think it got more to do with the alloy  and casting process, than design. I highly doubt veteran decided to become strict about the chinesium they use, as GOOD alloys are expensive. Likely, a slight redesign was made, but the same penny pinching ideals and alloys were used. Even if beign treated gently, a bad alloy is a bad alloy. They aint inspecting these more thoroughly either, as that would be expensive. Hopefully your next dice roll comes up solid. I have a v1 and v2 rim that havent broken yet. Still, I recognize chinesium when I see it.

I don't feel like it's the Rims fault, it's an aluminum alloy its going to bend or break if hit.  The side walls of the tires would be what I would suspect more than anything, the weak side walls of the tires are allowing objects to eat into the tire and kiss the rim.  I have a shinko I plan to mount which has stiffer sidewalls, and hopefully protect my rim better, I ride at > 45 psi now and have hit some LEGENDARY potholes and knock on wood not too bad.  I'm curious If I could get the same amount of protection with stiffer sidewalls and lower psi.

[.....]

15 minutes ago, Rich Sam said:

I don't feel like it's the Rims fault, it's an aluminum alloy its going to bend or break if hit.  The side walls of the tires would be what I would suspect more than anything, the weak side walls of the tires are allowing objects to eat into the tire and kiss the rim.  I have a shinko I plan to mount which has stiffer sidewalls, and hopefully protect my rim better, I ride at > 45 psi now and have hit some LEGENDARY potholes and knock on wood not too bad.  I'm curious If I could get the same amount of protection with stiffer sidewalls and lower psi.

I've seen both, rims broken from impact damage that destroys the outside edge. I've also seen rims crack and explode along the inside edge where the 'spokes' contact the inside edge of the rim. I still maintain that its poor alloy that sometimes comes casted with voids or hariline cracks. A rim that explodes on the inner edge where the supports meet the flats, isnt typically evidence that an impact has overcome the protection of the tire. Its quite simply a gamble born of poor materials, poor casting and lack of inspection. Aluminum rims are nothing new. Yes, alloy rims break if they suffer impact damage, but its typically found at the point of impact. This doesnt explain why rims are simply coming apart from the inside out.  Fwiw, both my rims are fine, so it seems MY day at the foundry was not a friday evening or monday morning. Quality rims are milled from aluminum, rather than casted from chinesium.

I wonder how much actual $$ they have invested in the making of the rim itself (less magnets etc..  I'd bet its shockingly low cost and a quality replacement would be shockingly more expensive. Obviously the cost to skirt this issue or to fix it with the least effort possible, is the mathmatical answer, as thats what theyve done. Are ANY other euc manufacturers seeing this problem?

Edited February 6, 2022 by ShanesPlanet

[Rich Sam]

6 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

I've seen both, rims broken from impact damage that destroys the outside edge. I've also seen rims crack and explode along the inside edge where the 'spokes' contact the inside edge of the rim. I still maintain that its poor alloy that sometimes comes casted with voids or hariline cracks. A rim that explodes on the inner edge where the supports meet the flats, isnt typically evidence that an impact has overcome the protection of the tire. Its quite simply a gamble born of poor materials, poor casting and lack of inspection. Aluminum rims are nothing new. A myriad of vehicles for many decades, have successfully used alloy rims on much heavier vehicles. I've ridden on alloy rims on cars without ANY air in them, and this still doesnt occur. Yes, alloy rims break if they suffer impact damage, but its typically found at the point of impact. This doesnt explain why rims are simply coming apart from the inside out.  Fwiw, both my rims are fine, so it seems MY day at the foundry was not a friday evening or monday morning.

That is a good point, that type of damage where there is a crack, without the impact, I have seen pics of, but the most common are the taco-ed rims where it made contact and the aluminum is bent to point to failure, and it cracks.

[Planemo]

22 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

This doesnt explain why rims are simply coming apart from the inside out. 

Agreed, from all the broken rims I have seen no way is it 100% due to the tyre kissing the rim, as rims have failed whilst still running 45psi which is insane. The rim itself is just poorly made. Whether you get rim damage from a low pressure 'snake bite' or the rim simply explodes due to a hit with a high pressure tyre, the chance of either is just as present. This is why I have always said that running a high pressure isn't the answer unless you are regularly hitting knarly stuff and have no option (to avoid snake bites).

22 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

Quality rims are milled from aluminum, rather than casted from chinesium.

Milled rather than cast? Not even many MC rims are milled from billet, I fear we may have some trouble trying to find one on an EUC anytime soon

22 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

I wonder how much actual $$ they have invested in the making of the rim itself (less magnets etc..  I'd bet its shockingly low cost and a quality replacement would be shockingly more expensive.

Yep, they really just need to modify the original cast to make the rim section thicker. I can live with chinese pot metal, but the Sherman rim just looks VERY thin on the cracked ones I have seen. There simply isn't enough meat there.

Re-moulding from scratch would be really expensive, just as a billet one would be. Although I did hear of someone looking to get some milled ones done. It looked promising from his comments but I haven't heard anything for a while...

I would love to know if Veteran really have done anything with the Max rim, and whether it's interchangeable with the old Sherman.

[Planemo]

27 minutes ago, Rich Sam said:

That is a good point, that type of damage where there is a crack, without the impact, I have seen pics of, but the most common are the taco-ed rims where it made contact and the aluminum is bent to point to failure, and it cracks.

Even then, I'm still not convinced that on all of them the tyre walls kissed (snake bit) the rim. The rims seem so flimsy I wouldn't be surprised if you could taco one even without a snake bite. The rim can either split OR bend from an impact, I don't believe that the cause has to be necessarily a snake bite OR a hit from a high pressure tyre. As I say, I just think its in the hands of the gods.

[fbhb]

30 minutes ago, Planemo said:

I would love to know if Veteran really have done anything with the Max rim, and whether it's interchangeable with the old Sherman.

@Planemo, there was a post a short while ago from an eWheels customer where he quoted from an email from Jason as below: 

Whether these Newer rims truly prove to be improved to the point where they withstand the stress in the real world is yet to be seen!

[Planemo]

28 minutes ago, fbhb said:

@Planemo, there was a post a short while ago from an eWheels customer where he quoted from an email from Jason as below: 

Yeah I saw that the rim had been 'improved' but I'd like to really get old and new side by side with some proper measurements from a vernier or something to actually see where the differences are. If the rim sections are an extra 2mm+ thicker it would give an immediate indication that it's stronger. These sort of small dimensions are hard to see by eye, especially from photos.

If it was, I reckon quite a few guys with older Shermans would buy them, thats assuming of course that the magnets would work with the older hub, which I'm not sure they will...we'll see when we can get one stripped down.

[fbhb]

1 hour ago, Planemo said:

If it was, I reckon quite a few guys with older Shermans would buy them, thats assuming of course that the magnets would work with the older hub, which I'm not sure they will...we'll see when we can get one stripped down.

Yep, I totally agree that until the much more recently produced Sherman's and of course the New Sherman Max end up in the hands of someone willing to examine/measure them accurately compared to V1 and V2 it's hard to believe anything has actually been changed IMO.

From my own personal standpoint, I'm more than happy with my V1 rim since fitting the Michelin City Pro, running @ 22psi!  Clocked up 4,000kms trouble free on the Michelin so far, but as I've probably mentioned to you before I don't abuse any of my wheels!

Edited February 6, 2022 by fbhb

[EUC AZ]

from ewheels "For the question about the rims, according to Veteran they're using a stronger alloy & thicker material on these new rims, as well as those for the Max, but of course, only time will tell how well these will hold up over time. "  So hopefully its true.  I will compare the rim and see if i can tell any differences to the v2 rim

Edited February 7, 2022 by EUC AZ