Kingsong S20/S22 (Confirmed)

[GoGeorgeGo]

8 minutes ago, Jon Stern said:

I don't like this trend for calling EUCs "half ebikes" on YouTube videos. It doesn't make sense as the "bi" in bicycle means two; EUCs do not operate like the powered wheel of an ebike; and it seems rather clickbaity to me. We wouldn't called bipedal animals like humans "half quadrupeds".

I understand the desire to reach a wider audience, but surely a better term could be could be used? What's wrong with electric monowheel (even though monowheel has been used to describe a different type of vehicle)?

Same reason everyonr wants to make kingsong S20 videos right now. Its all about search terms. More people search bike than euc.

I really can't wait to see some real range tests on the s20 from different people. Everyone rides differently, just giving an average speed and distance really doesnt give any good indication of range. Need to see several tests from different riders to really guage it. Everyone accelerates different and rides with different tire pressures on different terrains and varying degrees of wind resistance. 

[DavidB]

9 hours ago, Rawnei said:

 

Just as well it has a good tire (Ian, Speedyfeet) because it looks like a nightmare to change it.

[Forwardnbak]

2 hours ago, GoGeorgeGo said:

 

I really can't wait to see some real range tests on the s20 from different people. Everyone rides differently, just giving an average speed and distance really doesnt give any good indication of range. Need to see several tests from different riders to really guage it. Everyone accelerates different and rides with different tire pressures on different terrains and varying degrees of wind resistance. 

I’m hoping to get a range test done this week. Just bike paths and nothing spectacular but I’ll make a video. 

[techyiam]

From where I am standing, after watching EUC UPGRADES YouTube video on Kevin's attempt to open up the motor of the S20, I really feel Kingsong is unfairly blamed.

What is the biggest load on an euc while riding? The rider of course. On most euc's, the pedals are mounted on hangers that are robustly fastened to the axle. For safety reasons, the fastening system for the pedals is designed not only be able handle the applied loads, but also not to loosen under all operating conditions. 

The S20 design doesn't have the conventional hangers to support the pedals. Kingsong instead has come up with a novel pedal sub-assembly that is fastened to the bottom of the battery box. This means everything from the battery box to the hollow hub are load bearing stress members. With that in mind, Kingsong correctly applied thread locking compound to all the fasteners that are used to fasten all the members that form the frame structure of the euc. Based on what I saw on Kevin's video, those suckers (screws and bolts) aren't going anywhere. And rightly so. I was impressed. It is just like how they do it in cars and motorcycles. Based on my limited experiences, mainly with my T3 and V12, where I have seen bolts that were not properly tightened, or thread locking compound not applied, when they should have been. But having said that, I am not saying the T3 or the V12 are unsafe. Just that in cars and motorcycles, the quality control is so much better. I am not really complaining though, since it is not if though other pev's are much better.

Now to the questions on fasteners being soft. Well, there have been no reports on structural failure so far after a week of demo rides, or in the leaked videos on off-road riding.

As to removing the fasteners, there were two types shown: battery box screws and axle bolts. I watched the initial attempt to loosen a screw without proper preheating; I witnessed a lot of loosening torque applied, even for such a small allen head. From this, it did not appear the screw was soft. It can be observed  that after a little applied heat, the screw loosened readily.

Even red Loctite can be loosen after being heated to 260 C for a couple of minutes. After all, thread locking compounds are polymer based. Since the axle bolt was heated to red hot, no thread locking compound would be able to prevent the bolt from loosening. Furthermore, steel gets it strength, hardness, and etc. from adding alloying elements such as carbon and proper heat treatments. Since the bolt was heated to red hot (460 C), well above the annealing temperatures, thus losing some if not all of its thermal history, can we still blame the bolt as being soft.

Or, just maybe, improper tools and technique?

Edited February 21, 2022 by techyiam

[Freeforester]

1 hour ago, techyiam said:

From where I am standing, after watching EUC UPGRADES YouTube video on Kevin's attempt to open up the motor of the S20, I really feel Kingsong is unfairly blamed.

What is the biggest load on an euc while riding? The rider of course. On most euc's, the pedals are mounted on hangers that are robustly fastened to the axle. For safety reasons, the fastening system for the pedals is designed not only be able handle the applied loads, but also not to loosen under all operating conditions. 

The S20 design doesn't have the conventional hangers to support the pedals. Kingsong instead has come up with a novel pedal sub-assembly that is fastened to the bottom of the battery box. This means everything from the battery box to the hollow hub are load bearing stress members. With that in mind, Kingsong correctly applied thread locking compound to all the fasteners that are used to fasten all the members that form the frame structure of the euc. Based on what I saw on Kevin's video, those suckers (screws and bolts) aren't going anywhere. And rightly so. I was impressed. It is just like how they do it in cars and motorcycles. Based on my limited experiences, mainly with my T3 and V12, where I have seen bolts that were not properly tightened, or thread locking compound not applied, when they should have been. But having said that, I am not saying the T3 or the V12 are unsafe. Just that in cars and motorcycles, the quality control is so much better. I am not really complaining though, since it is not if though other pev's are much better.

Now to the questions on fasteners being soft. Well, there have been no reports on structural failure so far after a week of demo rides, or in the leaked videos on off-road riding.

As to removing the fasteners, there were two types shown: battery box screws and axle bolts. I watched the initial attempt to loosen a screw without proper preheating; I witnessed a lot of loosening torque applied, even for such a small allen head. From this, it did not appear the screw was soft. It can be observed  that after a little applied heat, the screw loosened readily.

Even red Loctite can be loosen after being heated to 260 C for a couple of minutes. After all, thread locking compounds are polymer based. Since the axle bolt was heated to red hot, no thread locking compound would be able to prevent the bolt from loosening. Furthermore, steel gets it strength, hardness, and etc. from adding alloying elements such as carbon and proper heat treatments. Since the bolt was heated to red hot (460 C), well above the annealing temperatures, thus losing some if not all of its thermal history, can we still blame the bolt as being soft.

Or, just maybe, improper tools and technique?

Time you dropped Kevin and perhaps the rest of the buying world a line explaining what to do to prevent further improper removal techniques being applied to fixings that seem to many casual, perhaps less gifted mechanics to be poorly suited to the purpose; I had similar misgivings about heating until red hot, presuming too that the annealing of the stubborn axle screws could cause them to perhaps shear rather than yield, but the bonding properties of KS’s thread locking compound seems unwilling to comply with your suggestion of temperature related holding/yielding threshold, the fish head thread lock compound doesn’t seem to share more conventionally applied/better understood Loctite ‘Red’. My concern - were I in Kevin’s shoes, or those of the many depositees for this lovely item - would simply be “How do I unscrew these stubborn bolts without busting my lovely $4k circa investment?
 

Perhaps even KS might be looking at either re-evaluating their choice of thread locking compound, the amount applied to these, or new, improved design, more real-world user-friendly fixings in their erstwhile eagerly-anticipated production-run-batch units, along with specific instructions being added to the manual in order to avoid the end customer/home mechanic from destroying his/her wheel in their attempts at disassembly of same, be this for tyre removal, motor or rim repair/replacement work or whatever; I think the average buyer would be very, very glad not to suffer the same difficulties as the otherwise able in-house/experienced  E-rides wheel mechanic.  There sure is something amiss in the design of the screws, the relationship between KS’s choice and amount of thread locking compound applied, and/or our basic Western ‘understanding’ of the screw and it’s housing, and what technique needs to be deployed to remove them simply as and when required. I get absolutely your and very likely KS’s idea of making the whole assembly as rigid as possible, but it’s the meaningful and practical matter of real world disassembly that we now face and seek to correctly and usefully address. We can address the longer term issues that may arise  with these casing screws with regard to the pedal hanging screws (the exposed, most likely to take a beating from trail riding mishaps and/or general, pedal zone wear and tear ones) sometime later too, maybe.
 

Time to get the YT ‘how-to’ video out, as if it ain’t seen, it didn’t yet happen - Eco-drift’s take on this should also be required viewing, in due course!

Edited February 21, 2022 by Freeforester

[Rawnei]

 

[techyiam]

1 hour ago, Freeforester said:

...

Bottom line, thread locking compound has nothing to do with making a frame more rigid. And I saw no evidence in his video demonstrating that the battery box screws and axle bolts were "soft".

Look at the number of people who have difficulties when they tried to remove the hangers from the Abrams axle. Veteran and Kingsong are doing the right thing. They are finally serious about making real vehicles. Do you expect most owners would be able to service the drivetrain in their car or motorcycles? 

I strongly opposed that euc manufacturers should limit their innovations or advancement in design so that most or all owners can service their own wheels.

Anyone who has serious experience wrenching cars or motorcycles on big items will not have these issues. Rust has not even entered the picture yet.

Would you have been happier if no thread locking compound was used? It certainly would make it a lot easier to wrench, hands down. 

Edited February 21, 2022 by techyiam

[Miko.cz]

Adding rar archive with photos of very poor quality (I didnt check them at site, no flash ) from my yesterday KS-S20 touch.
Few of you were interested in size for home stand - it could be readable even in this quality (units: cm).

KS-S20.rar

[supercurio]

3 hours ago, techyiam said:

Look at the number of people who have difficulties when they tried to remove the hangers from the Abrams axle. Veteran and Kingsong are doing the right thing. They are finally serious about making real vehicles. Do you expect most owners would be able to service the drivetrain in their car or motorcycles? 

I strongly opposed that euc manufacturers should limit their innovations or advancement in design so that most or all owners can service their own wheels.

The comparison with cars or motorcycle is interesting.

A common request of the community has been to make servicing the wheel, and especially tire changes easy.

Right now it is impossible to have direct access to an EUC service center for a large part of the owners, and it would take years to change if it does. Shipping wheels around can be difficult and expensive. This is probably why the expectations in terms of serviceability are so different between EUC and car or motorcycle owners for which it's much easier to find a garage to do so.

Bicycles can be serviced rather easily and there's plenty of bike shops.

A wheel released today that can't be serviced by its owner at home would create lots of headache for owners and distributors, even lead to a bunch of waste from wheels that eventually never get repaired.

IMO, for now repairability and the ease to do so must remain prioritized at the same level as strength and durability.

Edited February 21, 2022 by supercurio

[Forwardnbak]

I’m sorry no tech Info below. Just my blog channel and some dark grainy shots of our Aussie demo.

Volume down if you can’t stand Aussie mumble chatter  I’m learning at it. 
 

 

 

[techyiam]

3 hours ago, supercurio said:

...

A common request of the community has been to make service the wheel, and especially tire changes easy.

...

According to Kevin in the same video, he did say he could have changed the tire without removing the axle bolts. But since his objective is to open up the motor, he has to remove the axle bolts.

From what I can tell after watching the video, Kevin would not have encountered much difficulties should he have preheated the battery box screws right from the start.

Another thing to remember is the S20 is a suspension euc.

Have you watched Inmotion's video on tire change on the V11. A 1/2" drive impact gun was used within the first 5 minutes. 

The S18 is complex too. On the S18, I would worry after it is put back together. Would the suspension be aligned again?

Until Kingsong puts out a video on S20 tire change, I won't able to say. But if I have to speculate right now, based on what I have seen so far, the tire change process appear to be the most straight forward on the S20, at least when compared to the V11 and S18. This is based on watching each manufacturer's DIY video.

Having said that, I would speculate that most non-suspended euc's are easier to change tire on than the ones with suspension. At least based on the suspension euc's we have seen so far.

There is no way around it, suspension will always add more complexity.

Does that mean we should do away with suspension? 

At least to me, the S20 has already a streamlined, simplified modular design, especially when compared to the S18 or V11. It does seem like they listened. If tire change is excluded, I feel that the S20 is competitive in servicing, even when put against non-suspension euc's. It really has a modular design. The controller module, which is self contained, is straightforward to remove and disconnect. Battery replacement is also straight forward. Front bumper is easy to replace.

What is strange though is that on many online dealers' website, the V11 is often one of their best sellers, even though  the V11 is difficult to work on. Who to believe? 

Edited February 21, 2022 by techyiam

[Freeforester]

4 hours ago, techyiam said:

Bottom line, thread locking compound has nothing to do with making a frame more rigid. And I saw no evidence in his video demonstrating that the battery box screws and axle bolts were "soft".

Look at the number of people who have difficulties when they tried to remove the hangers from the Abrams axle. Veteran and Kingsong are doing the right thing. They are finally serious about making real vehicles. Do you expect most owners would be able to service the drivetrain in their car or motorcycles? 

I strongly opposed that euc manufacturers should limit their innovations or advancement in design so that most or all owners can service their own wheels.

Anyone who has serious experience wrenching cars or motorcycles on big items will not have these issues. Rust has not even entered the picture yet.

Would you have been happier if no thread locking compound was used? It certainly would make it a lot easier to wrench, hands down. 

Well, avoiding semantics, the thread locking  compounds certainly seems to have a role in helping the preventing of the frame from vibrating loose, it certainly seems to be sufficiently tightly assembled. I’m personally not so bothered about the degree of ‘hardness or softness’ of the screws as much as whether they are fit for purpose or not by design overall. We can agree to differ about these aspects, I’m sure they will be addressed in turn. The concept of owning a non-self-serviceable wheel might put some potential owners off though, as the implications re downtime and cost as well as proximity to the service centre are fairly clear, when compared to the DIY route. I’ve not encountered such problems when working on my ATV, tractor, paramotor, ebike, etc, but that is not to say I discount the possibility that we are to learn new techniques with EUC disassembly. KS will doubtless clarify!

I would of course not be happy if no thread locking compound were to be used, but would welcome simple solutions such as screws that are manageable without undue risk to both machine and screw in their removal; to date most, I feel, might regard the use of thread locking compound to be useful to hold everything together in the predicted and usually encountered manner, though should not so difficult to free ( even though doing such may necessitate using a modicum of heat from say a heat gun - I’d have no issue with, but not a blow lamp so close to motor bearing seals, or other non-metal  or at-risk components, btw - so as to risk damage to either wheel chassis or the screw itself.    This is however, not the same as to seek to or wish to prevent EUC companies from innovation/design improvements, which I’m sure we would as a community all welcome, though it is a moot point as to whether the present issue Kevin illustrates represents a step forwards, backwards or sideways, according to one’s own view, based upon the experiences shown thus far. Indeed, I’m sure all would heartily welcome an ‘advance’ in this particular sphere. We will see what KS recommend, in the absence of further light, at the moment the ‘heat’ method does not seem to be producing the desired outcome…

[Freeforester]

5 hours ago, Rawnei said:

2:50 - 3:07: A case for screw-on charge caps , or some other caps which may better stay in place?

 

[techyiam]

1 hour ago, Freeforester said:

Well, avoiding semantics, the thread locking  compounds certainly seems to have a role in helping the preventing of the frame from vibrating loose, it certainly seems to be sufficiently tightly assembled. I’m personally not so bothered about the degree of ‘hardness or softness’ of the screws as much as whether they are fit for purpose or not by design overall. We can agree to differ about these aspects, I’m sure they will be addressed in turn. The concept of owning a non-self-serviceable wheel might put some potential owners off though, as the implications re downtime and cost as well as proximity to the service centre are fairly clear, when compared to the DIY route. I’ve not encountered such problems when working on my ATV, tractor, paramotor, ebike, etc, but that is not to say I discount the possibility that we are to learn new techniques with EUC disassembly. KS will doubtless clarify!

I would of course not be happy if no thread locking compound were to be used, but would welcome simple solutions such as screws that are manageable without undue risk to both machine and screw in their removal; to date most, I feel, might regard the use of thread locking compound to be useful to hold everything together in the predicted and usually encountered manner, though should not so difficult to free ( even though doing such may necessitate using a modicum of heat from say a heat gun - I’d have no issue with, but not a blow lamp so close to motor bearing seals, or other non-metal  or at-risk components, btw - so as to risk damage to either wheel chassis or the screw itself.    This is however, not the same as to seek to or wish to prevent EUC companies from innovation/design improvements, which I’m sure we would as a community all welcome, though it is a moot point as to whether the present issue Kevin illustrates represents a step forwards, backwards or sideways, according to one’s own view, based upon the experiences shown thus far. Indeed, I’m sure all would heartily welcome an ‘advance’ in this particular sphere. We will see what KS recommend, in the absence of further light, at the moment the ‘heat’ method does not seem to be producing the desired outcome…

You are basing your negative opinion of the servicing of the S20 on one individual's attempt. My point is that this individual 's attempt may not be indicative of whether the S20 is readily serviceable or not.

Heating the bolt with a propane torch is both risky and unnecessary.  You know that the motor is sealed. Wouldn't that become an oven. Even red Loctite gives up its hold at 260 C. He heated up to red hot. That is in the vicinity of 460 C. And he still couldn't loosen it. And you are still blaming Kingsong? 

In Inmotion's DIY video on the tire change of the V11, a 1/2" drive impact gun was busted out within the first 5 minutes of the video. If some YouTuber made a video using a dinky wrench trying to break loose the same bolt or rod, would you also conclude that the V11 is not serviceable? 

Edited February 21, 2022 by techyiam

[OldFartRides]

I was definitely cringing when he busted out the propane torch, but sometimes when inanimate objects refuse to comply with gentle persuasion, caution and empathy (and good judgement) fly right out the window.

[techyiam]

14 minutes ago, OldFartRides said:

I was definitely cringing when he busted out the propane torch, but sometimes when inanimate objects refuse to comply with gentle persuasion, caution and empathy (and good judgement) fly right out the window.

True that. Along with a lot of profanity. But for me those days were many moons ago. 

Edited February 21, 2022 by techyiam

[Freeforester]

52 minutes ago, techyiam said:

Even red Loctite gives up its hold at 260 C. He heated up to red hot. That is in the vicinity of 460 C. And he still couldn't loosen it. And you are still blaming Kingsong? 

Am I to presume Kevin has somehow fused the parts together by use of increased heat beyond the 260°C, it seemed that even using a pipe extension to the Allen wrench he clearly was unable to get the screws to move. This may not have come as a surprise to you, but we are still no nearer to removing the screws, irrespective of apportioning any ‘blame’ as to this impasse. I was merely observing, and as such the experience shared did not really promote a positive feeling, though of course I’m prepared to learn from even more competent technicians, like most will. KS will either explain how to remove them, or change them, one or the other, we will be able to determine their ‘suitability’ for purpose from that, for sure.

So far, it leaves me with less of a ‘Houston - the Eagle has ‘landed” as “Houston - we have a problem”, but then again, as Wodehouse alluded to, one may always discern twixt  a Scotsman ‘harbouring a suspicion’ and a ray of sunshine…

Edited February 21, 2022 by Freeforester

[lazybones99]

4 hours ago, supercurio said:

The comparison with cars or motorcycle is interesting.

….

IMO, for now repairability and the ease to do so must remain prioritized at the same level as strength and durability.

I agree 100% and FWIW, the smarter auto companies do incorporate both into the design as ease if repair reduces warranty costs.

[supercurio]

2 hours ago, techyiam said:

According to Kevin in the same video, he did say he could have changed the tire without removing the axle bolts. But since his objective is to open up the motor, he has to remove the axle bolts.

Yes good point, I eventually watched the video and he points out the method to change the tire without freeing the motor from the frame around it.

However I don't have a very good understanding yet of all the steps necessary for tire change. It seems that it would still be required to remove some screws which proved problematic, although not the 4 ones on each side holding the frame to the motor.

 

2 hours ago, techyiam said:

From what I can tell after watching the video, Kevin would not have encountered much difficulties should he have preheated the battery box screws right from the start.

What surprised me is that it was still necessary to heat these screws.

Aside from the threadlock concerns, maybe Kingsong would need to define a torque spec for each screws like it is is done for bicycles.
As long as a proper threadlocker is employed, excessive torquing during assembly would be superfluous.

2 hours ago, techyiam said:

Another thing to remember is the S20 is a suspension euc.

Have you watched Inmotion's video on tire change on the V11. A 1/2" drive impact gun was used within the first 5 minutes. 

The S18 is complex too. On the S18, I would worry after it is put back together. Would the suspension be aligned again?

Until Kingsong puts out a video on S20 tire change, I won't able to say. But if I have to speculate right now, based on what I have seen so far, the tire change process appear to be the most straight forward on the S20, at least when compared to the V11 and S18. This is based on watching each manufacturer's DIY video.

I wish to see a S20 tire change video from Kingsong as well.

Hopefully once the changes expected on screws and other elements which will be modified between the current batch of prototypes and the first production round are complete!

2 hours ago, techyiam said:

Having said that, I would speculate that most non-suspended euc's are easier to change tire on than the ones with suspension. At least based on the suspension euc's we have seen so far.

There is no way around it, suspension will always add more complexity.

Aside from the screw concerns, the S20 doesn't look too bad if you compare to the V12!
But like you said, there's also putting things back together and we haven't seen that part yet.

2 hours ago, techyiam said:

Does that mean we should do away with suspension? 

At least to me, the S20 has already a streamlined, simplified modular design, especially when compared to the S18 or V11. It does seem like they listened. If tire change is excluded, I feel that the S20 is competitive in servicing, even when put against non-suspension euc's. It really has a modular design. The controller module, which is self contained, is straightforward to remove and disconnect. Battery replacement is also straight forward. Front bumper is easy to replace.

What is strange though is that on many online dealers' website, the V11 is often one of their best sellers, even though  the V11 is difficult to work on. Who to believe? 

The V11 is not free of problem, no doubt. Between board failures, bearings and those who had to replace shocks multiple times already.
I am cautiously optimistic as well for the S20 serviceability once the feedback is taken into account.

Really grateful for E-Rides @Afeez Kay & Kevin / EUC UPGRADES! 

[Paul A]

Maybe lower strength purple colored Loctite might have been better?

 

Allen keys, six sided hexagons. 

Would three sided, equilateral triangle shape provide better grip/torque?

Less likely for key to 'round/wear/destroy' the hexagon bolt interface?

 

Would a soldering iron be better at heating a bolt?

Direct, more targeted, conductive heating?

Less collateral damage?

 

If KS solves the problem so it won't be in the production wheels, that's great.

Tyre change will still be a headache.

 

First adopters might well still be guinea pigs, yet to discover problems.

[Rawnei]

I'm thinking that if King Song makes a How-To video how to change the tire they will also stumble upon the same problems and be forced to correct those, so lets demand a tire change video. 😅🙌

I left a comment to Kevin on his youtube video suggesting just that, hope he see's it. 🙂

Edited February 21, 2022 by Rawnei

[techyiam]

22 minutes ago, Rawnei said:

I'm thinking that if King Song makes a How-To video how to change the tire they will also stumble upon the same problems and be forced to correct those, so lets demand a tire change video. 😅🙌

I left a comment to Kevin on his youtube video suggesting just that, hope he see's it. 🙂

I doubt it. Kingsong knows what type of thread locking  compound they applied to the battery enclosure screws, since they applied it after all. They would just heat them up first. There will be no drama.

However, it is always prudent to get the servicing instructions from the manufacturer, if available. 

[Rolzi]

9 minutes ago, Rawnei said:

I'm thinking that if King Song makes a How-To video how to change the tire they will also stumble upon the same problems and be forced to correct those, so lets demand a tire change video. 😅🙌

I am going to repeat a bit that i wrote earlier.

With this new video from euc upgrades i see no reason why this would not work:

 

Remove three screws each side that connect the suspension to the motor frame. Motor would already come out from bottom if it wasn´t for motor wire.

Take out the screws needed to detach the whole upper unit with electronics.

Disconnect the wires.

Remove the whole motor frame from the bottom. Let the upper unit go through rest of the wheel with the motor wire. Alternatively you can disconnect the motor wires if you want.

Remove the plastic motor wire guides and remove the fender.

You now have access to the rim and tire. No need to remove the frames from the motor.

 

Also in case you missed this about the motor screws: At the end of euc upgrades video "The production wheels will not have this problem"

[Tawpie]

8 minutes ago, Rolzi said:

Also in case you missed this about the motor screws: At the end of euc upgrades video "The production wheels will not have this problem"

Hopefully not! Come to think of it, in the video where Kevin lets KS know that the other screws are too soft and are too easily stripped he doesn't mention that he couldn't get the suspension frame screws out. I wonder why?

Think of the outcry if there wasn't some pretty strong thread locker on those fasteners. I'm glad to see they need some work (and care) to remove, I'd rather that then have them falling out on their own.

[Freeforester]

…And here was me thinking I saw Kevin with first a heat gun heating them up, I must have been imagining it..

Afeez: “Hello Kingsong? It’s my shiny new S20- it has started to make a knocking or clicking sound";

Kingsong Technical dept: “Yours too? Can you have a look inside the motor, and let us know how you get on, we have heard others say the same”;

Afeez: “Right-ho! - Kevin, are you there?”

Kevin “ Yeah, should be a piece of cake. Now, where did I put my  ceramic Earth re-entry tiles?”

——-

If KS aspire to be “better” than the competition, they might have to take a few ideas on board, not least about the serviceability of the new flagship machine, which surely represents the pinnacle of their endeavours to date  (it is, and has, after all been thus hailed, and proclaimed, if not yet actually sold as such);  “build and forget” is not really a ‘being better’ strategy, much less an option for tempting the average Western cash in hand potential buyer currently (regional variations may apply), and solutions to the more obvious problems ought to be mitigated as speedily as possible.  
 

Personally,  I’d gladly forgo the pads and extension pieces in favour of a beefed up bumper, a couple spare light baskets, the redesigned trig screws Paul mentions above or some such similarly effective, a manual/video series which shows  easy-to-follow pictures demonstrating the ‘Rolzi’ method of wheel removal, some fixes to the other minor snags appearing among the beta testing, oh - and a length of battery casing Velcro, so that end users can do what they are  highly likely to do from the get go anyway, ie ditch the stuff that doesn’t really work, in favour of things that do, or can be made to.      But anyway, it would be generally beneficial to their standing to ‘show a little goodwill’ toward the ‘still eagerly waiting’ potential customers; it ain’t exactly been a short or easy carry from conception to the latter stages of ‘pregnancy’ so far, and all want to avoid further complications just prior to the ‘birth’. Getting the willing buyers aboard with a sweetener or two for their patience/forbearance  would probably be much appreciated, and help elevate both the wheel and the name of Kingsong beyond and above the ‘problems’ we now consider. The start/finishing line is just over the next bump, I’m sure all want to see it cross that line in style and to general acclaim, though it’s not yet in the ‘design classic’ category.

 

 

Edited February 21, 2022 by Freeforester