Dog chasing EUC riders small advice how to handle situation like this 🐕

[mrelwood]

32 minutes ago, UPONIT said:

I respect you, but you are wrong. I got latched onto twice today. By mid-sized dogs.

You got grabbed three times, and each time they only grabbed your pants. If an animal sees you as prey, they definitely don’t grab your pants. They dig in.

 One of the times the dog let go when you said no, and the other two of the times they let go when you stopped riding. That’s when they got what they were after, to get you to stop. If they ever would’ve intended to hurt you, they would’ve.

 I’ve had two dogs get out of the owners’ hands and start to follow me. They both ended up running beside me barking without any attempts to grab my leg or my pants.

32 minutes ago, UPONIT said:

No one deserves to get attacked by a dog, or hurt by a dog pulling them off their wheel, legal or not.

I fully agree! Dogs need to be on a leash, and the owner needs to be prepared to hang on to the leash if the dog starts running. 
 

 

1 hour ago, Cerbera said:

If you notice you are being pursued, most dogs will be confounded if you stop, dismount, turn to face them and wait.

Exactly. You stop and the dog no longer has an instinct to follow. It has nothing to do with them requiring time to assess the size difference.

 

 The dogs’ behavior around here has changed completely in just 3 years. 9 out of 10 dogs used to bark when I passed them slowly and most of them tried to pull away from the leash in order to run after me. Nowadays not even 1 out of 10 does that.

 If the dogs were after prey, has that natural behavior died in almost all dogs in just a few years? No it hasn’t. Have almost all dog owners been suddenly very successful in training their dogs to behave well and suppress their natural urges? No they haven’t. Or have the dogs gotten used to seeing a person glide forward, and understand that the person is not being attacked? Yes they have.

Edited December 14, 2022 by mrelwood

[Paul A]

Air Horn Effect on Dog

79K views 

June 5, 2017

Larry Smith

 

There's a large white dog on Spring Creek Rd south of Weatherford that likes to chase cyclists.

I've started carrying an air horn for just such a circumstance and found it works well.

Mine is a Marine Signal Horn Junior that easily fits into a jersey pocket.

 

 

[OldFartRides]

I just keep a ziplock with 8-10 milk bones with me. I stop. I always say hi to the dog first. Some are interested, some aren’t. I ask the dog - what’s your name ? Usually, the owner supplies that. Some owners don’t want to talk and just move on. That’s fine. Then I go on my way when they’re past. Just yesterday met a (new to me) large male dog and owner. Guy quizzed me about the wheel. Maybe it’s the beard. Old guy on a wheelie- bob….heh.

[Paul A]

https://www.cesarsway.com/when-dogs-attack/

September 26, 2019

Cesar Millan

 

When Dogs Attack: What To Do When Attacked By A Dog

Why Do Dogs Attack?

In the case of joggers, runners, bikers, etc., it’s because the motion of the person triggers their prey drive. However, not every dog will naturally decide to chase down and bite someone who’s moving too quickly. Those dogs that do have learned to do it — again, because of human negligence.

It starts with a dog that barks to defend its territory as a jogger runs by. Why does the dog bark? To make that person go away. And what happens when the jogger keeps running? They go away, and the dog has “won.” After this happens repeatedly, the dog learns that barking will make the invader leave, so its excitement level goes up in anticipation. This continued reinforcement really is the definition of a “vicious cycle.”

 

Eventually, this increased excitement can lead to the dog becoming bolder and more aggressive to the point of actually rushing toward or chasing the jogger. With enough excitement and unbalanced energy, this may lead to a bite or an attack, and the dog isn’t really consciously doing it.

 

How to Avoid Being Bitten?

If you are confronted by an aggressive dog, the most important thing to remember is this: Stay calm. Don’t give in to fear or anxiety, and don’t start yelling or kicking at the dog. An aggressive dog wants you to be stressed out before it attacks, but if you remain calm and in control, it slows them down and throws them off.

Also avoid direct eye contact with an aggressive dog. Stand slightly sideways (which also makes you a narrower target) while keeping the dog in your peripheral vision.

Once you have successfully used calm assertive energy to keep that dog back, claim your own space. If you happen to be carrying anything in your hands, like a cane or an umbrella, place it out in front of yourself to appear bigger and be more in command of your space.

What this tells the dog with your body language is, “I don’t want your space, I just want this space that I am in.” Maintain your very calm and assertive state; this energy creates a barrier that automatically demands the dog’s respect by letting it know that you are not afraid.

When the dog senses that you aren’t threatening it — and are not threatened by it — it will probably lose interest and the situation will de-escalate. Unfortunately, though, this process is not always possible.

 

What to Do if You Are Attacked?

Especially for joggers and runners, there is a danger of being completely blindsided, so that a dog attack is happening before you can even have a chance to try to avoid it. If you have enough time, the first line of defense is to let the dog attack something on you that isn’t you — for example, if you’re wearing a sweater, get your arm out of a sleeve and get that sleeve in the dog’s face. If the dog takes the bait, let it pull the sweater off, then slowly back out of the area. To the dog, it has just gotten hold of a piece of you, and this may distract it long enough for you to get to safety.

It’s probably good practice to always have something on you that you can use in this manner, whether it’s a sweatshirt tied loosely around your waist, a stick, or even a stuffed dog toy. If you can pull it off quickly enough, you can also use one of your shoes for this maneuver.

 

In all cases, remember to protect your face, chest, and throat. Also keep your hands in fists to protect your fingers. If you must be bitten, the safest place for it to happen is the shin or forearm; a dog bite to the thigh can cause fatal bleeding.

If you are bitten, resist the natural urge to try to pull away. This will just make the injury worse through tearing your flesh. Oddly enough, if the attack escalates to this point, then you actually want the dog to latch on. Why? The dog only has one mouth, but you have two hands. If you can manage it at this point, grab its back legs and lift them off the ground.

[0000]

7 hours ago, UPONIT said:

To all the gun-owners who talk so big about shooting an attacking dog, you need a reality check regarding how difficult it is to hit a  fast, erratic moving target

You're in SF right? Funny, I just had 2 dog incidents there I wrote about in my Socal thread so we have that in common. From my travels through the state, and out of all the signage, I've observed the Dogs Must Be Leashed sign to be the most useless set of instructions ever based upon the number of Californians I witnessed and sometimes filmed not giving a single F.

With the Golden Retreiver near miss, I was totally surprised as I had already passed him and the owner at a very low speed seemingly without problem. It was the owner's taking action jumping atop the dog right as I passed that gave any indication there was an issue. Feeling the near miss from what I assumed was snapping jaws, I looked back to the former neutral "no problem" dog face now twisted into a nasty snarling attack face. I remember that the most.

For the record too, this had nothing to do with presenting as prey like some are talking about above. I made a safe non-threatening low speed pass. The dog then decided as I passed I was a threat, outside of my visibility then, and it attacked.

Anyway, that got me thinking about when and how I'd respond with deadly force. And I have to say, I totally agree with you here @UPONIT.

My first thought was, well my access to the weapon needs to be improved... maybe I can design a 3D printed chest rig holster to go with the usual wheel gear loadout.

Then it's like, well do I really want to present to the public as RoboCop on the off chance taking shots against big enough charging dog or dogs to be threats would happen AND I couldn't first get away (neglecting the marksmanship needed for that to even work as you describe). How likely is this scenario? Well maybe not...

No, I think practicing hyper awareness around dogs, unleashed in particular, even around small ones as with children they can be unpredictable and make themselves an a potential wreck causing obstacle as well as proficiency with the wheel over dynamic terrain is the best answer here. Even perhaps especially after you pass them. So really the carry scenario usefulness regarding dogs really only comes into effect after you can't get out of, like a pitbull latching on who won't stop until it's either you or them laying motionless (which is a possibility).

Well perhaps that and intimidating upon dog owners who unleash large and dangerous breeds im public that it's not just the signage they're not following that they need to worry about. Many of these dogs people own were literally bred to protect large open properties, something that doesn't exist for almost everyone in a dense city like SF. Then, these owners who are ignorant of the statistics readily available in sites like dogsbite.org unleash pretending any place with a dirt path or nature is their backyard.

For these types, I wouldn't mind playing as RoboCop because little else is like to make an impression. But that's not really a solution. It's education, however, there are always a substantial portion of the population who will never care and do as they please anyways. Increase the density, and you just increase your chances of running into them.

There are a lot of things about extremely dense cities I don't like.

Anyway, sucks you got accosted, you definitely got it worse than me. At least these accounts make for good food for thought for other riders.

[Cerbera]

6 hours ago, Paul A said:

If you can manage it at this point, grab its back legs and lift them off the ground.

or flick its nuts ?!  Sorry, not helpful.

Edited December 14, 2022 by Cerbera

[Funky]

12 hours ago, UPONIT said:

Gonna happen anyway, so how to protect self?

If you see dog running after you. Turn around and go cavemen on the mutt. He will be running from you.  

Yeah people/owner may think you are crazy. But that mutt wont go after you again. And if they say something.. I remind them the mutt was chasing me first, i simply changed the roles. Or i taught he wanted to play..

 

I like when they cry/run from me. The prey became the hunter.

Edited December 14, 2022 by Funky

[Scubadragonsan]

I won't try that on a pit bull unless I carry a big stone club like a caveman and run like one!

[Paul A]

Dec 9, 2022

 

A pitbull used a Tesla as a teething toy

 

 

 

Edited December 14, 2022 by Paul A

[Funky]

1 hour ago, Paul A said:

Dec 9, 2022

 

A pitbull used a Tesla as a teething toy

 

 

 

Let me just sit and film the cute dog. De fuh.. Use some brain cells and drive away.  Fling the door open so he gets a beating. Do something.

O yeah.. Forgot it's a Tik-Tok user. Nvm i take back what ever i thought. Have to be nice to special ed users. Retards..

Edited December 14, 2022 by Funky

[Funky]

1 hour ago, Scubadragonsan said:

I won't try that on a pit bull unless I carry a big stone club like a caveman and run like one!

No need to run.. Simply drive after it. 

All dogs will start to run away from you, if you turn around and come after them, while screaming like a angry mad man.

Simply go after him like you would wanna tear his head off. You get the picture.. (Yeah, yeah, i know i'm cold.. Also dead inside.)

[Cerbera]

1 hour ago, Funky said:

Simply go after him like you would wanna tear his head off.

Ah yes, that's from Chapter 2 of the EUC public relations manual, isn't it; 'Earning trust from Pedestrians'...

Edited December 14, 2022 by Cerbera

[conecones]

3/4 of my daily commute is on shared walking/bike paths through a ravine system (separated from the streets) where owners often don't leash their dogs (contrary to posted signage). Many interactions with dogs, almost once on every trip. Never a single negative interaction. Even if the dog initially starts charging at me, with the owner hopelessly screaming after it, I am able to de-escalate and calm down the dog, usually being friends at the end of the interaction - dogs are mostly just curious and they have difficulty containing that excitement.

Maybe it's because I grew up around dogs and understand how to communicate, or maybe it's because I live in a place where carrying around weapons and fearing for your life around every corner is not part of the culture. In the end, like many others have said, what kind of interaction you have with the dog is almost always dictated by what YOU do, and not what the dog/dog owner does. It's only in extreme rare cases where the dog dictates the outcome - and I fully accept that risk. I know that is not impossible that one day a dog lunges at me with intent to kill, and on that occasion I will fight for my life and maybe kill it if it came to that, or it might kill me if I am not successful. Having a weapon isn't important, but having the mental preparedness is, not unlike accepting one day I might die from getting run over by a truck, but I'll still continue to ride my EUC.

[Funky]

49 minutes ago, Cerbera said:

Ah yes, that's from Chapter 2 of the EUC public relations manual, isn't it; 'Earning trust from Pedestrians'...

We are talking about dogs.. Pedestrians have their own post/dealing. Luckily none of them have yet tried to bite me, be two legged or four legged.  

 

Like i said before. If some rat bite me - it will go flying like a ball. Or big dog that doesn't let me go.. I will tear it's jaw off.

Normally riding past dogs, i slow down and watch what they are doing.. If it will start to come after me - i'm ready to jump off wheel and stop. If it looks angry and wanna bite, i will try to scare him off. If nothing helps - let's rumble. Shit can happen 0-100 really fast. One needs to look for ques, etc.. And needs to think fast. Is that dog looking "happy" or "aggressive". Does he simply wanna play. Or wanna attack..

First thing that comes to my mind is - i will need to fight that dog off. I don't even look at owner.. Because let's be real here, most dogs ignore their owners. That's why i don't even look at them. Because in my eyes they are not there.

I will not wait for the owner to come and take it's sweet time taking the dog off me.. While it's mauling me. The dog will be hurt or worst put down already. (Sorry - not sorry.)

 

Luckily most dog will turn around and simply start running away from you. If you start chasing them. Prey - runs. Prey doesn't chase.

Edited December 14, 2022 by Funky

[mrelwood]

3 hours ago, Funky said:

Or big dog that doesn't let me go.. I will tear it's jaw off.

https://www.google.fi/search?q=pitbull+biting+force

[Paul A]

Wondering if the lady was waiting for police.

To trace the dog owner and pay for repairs.

Driving away might mean police unable to identify dog from video alone.

Could have rolled up the window though...

[Paul A]

One dog on a leash might be able to overpower a restrainer, let alone two.

 

The reality of pitbulls.

Mare Island Maker

July 3, 2017

 

___________  

 

Restraint/leash can fail.

 

 

[UPONIT]

I appreciate all of the variety of viewpoints alot.

The area where I was riding was an off-leash area. But dogs shouldn't be off leash if they are prone to attack.

Most repsponses here address the issue of dealing with a dog "attack" where the wheel is just the provocation. I am most interested in knowing: has anyone ever fallen and been injured because a big dog latched onto their pants, etc.? Maybe it isn't that big a problem. Technically, I didn't fall or get injured, because I was going slow and could step off. Maybe that is the solution around unknown dogs?

I'm definitely getting a mini-airhorn can though. I will probably get yelled at if I use it.

[vladdark]

I always carry a large long range pepper gel spray (usually i'm on trails or country area). It has saved my a** many times. I'm CC too and I'm interested, how those who are CC drawn or aim,  if they have wrist guards... Its impossible    Still prefer pepper spray... even a chasing dog is quickly given up on the chase, just be careful with the wind

[Paul A]

5 hours ago, UPONIT said:

I'm definitely getting a mini-airhorn can though.

 

Maybe try these bike horns, they are very loud.

Strap to finger, push button operation, rechargeable battery, compact/lightweight.

 

https://www.amazon.com/Electric-Bike-Bells-80-130dB-Rechargeable/dp/B09KMNRCW6/ref=sr_1_16_sspa?keywords=bike+horn&qid=1671102086&sr=8-16-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEzTDc2WURZWVMwTk5CJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwMDkyNzI1MjhHOE9SNVVKOTJGMyZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwNTA2NDg3MlA1T0w2MEVESUVPOCZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX210ZiZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=

 

Electric Bike Bells 80-130dB - IPX6 Waterproof USB Rechargeable Bike Horns, Anti-Theft Alarm Cycling Bicycle Bell Handlebar Rings   $12.98

 

 

 

 

Edited December 15, 2022 by Paul A

[conecones]

18 hours ago, Funky said:

We are talking about dogs.. Pedestrians have their own post/dealing. Luckily none of them have yet tried to bite me, be two legged or four legged.  

 

Like i said before. If some rat bite me - it will go flying like a ball. Or big dog that doesn't let me go.. I will tear it's jaw off.

Normally riding past dogs, i slow down and watch what they are doing.. If it will start to come after me - i'm ready to jump off wheel and stop. If it looks angry and wanna bite, i will try to scare him off. If nothing helps - let's rumble. Shit can happen 0-100 really fast. One needs to look for ques, etc.. And needs to think fast. Is that dog looking "happy" or "aggressive". Does he simply wanna play. Or wanna attack..

First thing that comes to my mind is - i will need to fight that dog off. I don't even look at owner.. Because let's be real here, most dogs ignore their owners. That's why i don't even look at them. Because in my eyes they are not there.

I will not wait for the owner to come and take it's sweet time taking the dog off me.. While it's mauling me. The dog will be hurt or worst put down already. (Sorry - not sorry.)

 

Luckily most dog will turn around and simply start running away from you. If you start chasing them. Prey - runs. Prey doesn't chase.

People who have a lot of experience with dogs would disagree with most of your proposed "strategies" here. I have a friend from the canine unit who now lives with two retired German shepherds and even though they are old, a typical person would stand no chance against one of them in a real attack. The fact that you have never experienced being bit is likely why you think you can scare off aggressive dogs or tear off their jaws. Size doesn't matter when blood loss is what will kill you. The best strategy (as first taught in kindergarten) is to do everything possible to not let any situation escalate to violence.

Also, observing how the owner interacts with the dog is also very useful to quickly get an idea of how the dog will likely interact with you.

[Cerbera]

1 hour ago, conecones said:

The best strategy (as first taught in kindergarten) is to do everything possible to not let any situation escalate to violence.

Yeah, but dogs haven't had that lecture, and if one is pursuing you there is about a 50% chance that the dog has already chosen violence for you ! And in the briefest of moments we see them coming, if we do at all, it can be very hard to tell what is playful chasing (and what the end result of that might be), and what is 'bite imminent' behaviour, let alone have time to decide what to do about either before the dog and yourself are coincident ! The best hope we have is to see those unleashed dogs a long way in advance of passing them and make sure their owners know we are coming. To be fair to a lot of unleashed dog walkers on my regular path, a lot of them do make an effort to call the dog to them, and hold it away from the path while I pass if they hear my tinkling bell from afar... and also in the interests of balance I would still say that in my general experience MOST dogs are not problem dogs, but there are enough of the remainder that are to be of some regular worry.

Edited December 15, 2022 by Cerbera

[UniMe]

Personally, I also believe that experience interacting with dogs is invaluable. I grew up with dogs, had a large Akita when I was younger, spent a lot of time with a friend who had a GIANT wolf cross 'dog' etc. When you live with dogs like this, you also constantly play/wrestle with them just like they do with each other. When a large dog is 'turned on' they are bloody terrifying and you really only have one chance to get them off their feet and you also need to be very strong to do so. A split second miss, and you're injured and hoping you don't have a severed artery. 

Even if pepper sprayed, my Akita would not have hesitated in his attack. That dog would hear and smell exactly where you are and would be all vengeance and rage. it would then 'go to the ground' immediately (if you were lucky enough to grab him right and to get him on his back). Same with a gun, you miss you better be ready to do hand to hand battle because the dog will be startled and even more angry.

Like my fellow countryman stated, the best strategy is to avoid the conflict. keep your hand close to your body. don't stare the dog in the eye, and back away. If the dog bites, stabilize the head so it doesn't shake the flesh off your body and try your very best to get the animal on it's back so you can pin and subdue it. The obvious question from there is, what next? If the owner isn't around, you're going to be spending a lot of time with that dog, holding it there, unless you end up somehow ending its life. Perhaps at that point a handgun would be useful (if you could get your hand on it).

If you're lucky, perhaps that dog will recognize you as the Alpha before you need to kill it, something my friend needed to do several times with his wolf cross, which prevented him from needing to put the animal down. That dog was easily 150lbs, he would sit beside the kitchen table and then rest his chin on the table to watch you eat... smart too, he'd play dominance 'head games' with people like me that were very unsettling.

Edited December 15, 2022 by UniMe

[Funky]

1 hour ago, conecones said:

People who have a lot of experience with dogs would disagree with most of your proposed "strategies" here. I have a friend from the canine unit who now lives with two retired German shepherds and even though they are old, a typical person would stand no chance against one of them in a real attack. The fact that you have never experienced being bit is likely why you think you can scare off aggressive dogs or tear off their jaws. Size doesn't matter when blood loss is what will kill you. The best strategy (as first taught in kindergarten) is to do everything possible to not let any situation escalate to violence.

Also, observing how the owner interacts with the dog is also very useful to quickly get an idea of how the dog will likely interact with you.

As someone who has a scar 1cm away from his eye, from dog "attack" knows better. And when i was younger ~10-15 years ago my own family dog have bitten my multiple times. (Wolf mix.) Till blood draw. (My own fault most of times..) Stepped on its tail/paw, so on.. Or simple "ruff" housing gone bad.

Still have some scars from bites on my hands..

So don't presume otherwise.

Ofc i would not go attacking the dog first.. Try to be "nice" and so on. So it doesn't start attacking. But you need to be ready for it. Grabbing his yaw with both hands, or neck would be most effective way to stop the biting and then pinning it down onto ground. (Heck same time brea.. Sorry won't go there.)

 

Owner.. What the heck will he do. If he is ~20 meters away. Or the dog that was slowly walking on the leash right next to owner suddenly see me and yanks free - because owner wasn't holding the leash hard enough.. It will be you vs the dog for multiple seconds. If not a minute.

Edited December 15, 2022 by Funky

[Paul A]

Spetsnaz are special forces in numerous post-Soviet states.

Looks easy......

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How to defend against a dog. Self defense against dog attack

Systema Spetsnaz

43.3K subscribers

Dec 26, 2014