Getting Comfortable With Speed

[I_Must_Bust]

Also can anybody reccomend beep/tiltback settings? eWheels lists the top speed at 30mph and I'm light at around 145lbs. I'm thinking alarm at 28 and tiltback at 30 should be good? I had tiltback @28 alarm @25 before.

[Sludog]

On 11/7/2020 at 5:25 PM, mrelwood said:

I agree with everyone here talking about it taking time until the wheel feels natural to your body, and that there are no shortcuts.

 But foot positioning is still something I would check. The place you land as a beginner is not always the best one.

 Imagine you have no toes. Now center your foot on the pedal so that both fronts and backs of your feet have the same distance to the edge of the pedal. The toes are then hanging over the front of the pedal.

 If I wasn’t able to describe the idea properly, you can just align the back of your foot at the rear and off the pedal. That should get you close enough.

 In both cases once you get familiar with riding, you should try slightly different placings front to back, side to side, as well as toes out or straight.

Definitely agree with your riding stance. When I first learned how to ride I was lining my heels up with the back of the pedals but my toes where not hanging off and squeezing the wheel tightly with my ankles and calves.  My stability was pretty bad and I was wobbling all of the place. Then I widened my stance a little on the pedals with heels still all the way back and it helped quite a bit and wobbling stopped but still felt a little uneasy on the wheel. Went for a night and it was a little harder to see my feet on the pedals where I wanted them. One time I mounted with my right foot all the way back and the left foot was close to the front hanging off a bit and I took off beautifully and super smooth riding. Once I saw my left foot was hanging off a little,  I put both feet on the pedals with toes off the front it was a whole new riding experience for me.  So much easier and a more enjoyable ride. 

[Dreygun]

If I have toes hanging off too far forward I get wobbles. For me (16x), toes out, heels in, left foot toe hangs over about 2 inch, right foot hangs off only about one inch and zero wobbles. Used to grip wheel tightly, but now it's a loose stance with heels touching only where it's almost like tossing the wheel back and forth when carving. 

[mploy1515]

6 minutes ago, Dreygun said:

If I have toes hanging off too far forward I get wobbles. For me (16x), toes out, heels in, left foot toe hangs over about 2 inch, right foot hangs off only about one inch and zero wobbles. Used to grip wheel tightly, but now it's a loose stance with heels touching only where it's almost like tossing the wheel back and forth when carving. 

Interesting to know, since I have a 16x as well....

As I've become more experienced, and comfortably in the "intermediate" stage now, I've begun to experiment with foot placement as well, and Ive adapted to ride similar to you (or most I think, once they figure things out...)

Now -- it's semi-wide stance, with toes pointed outward hanging off the front about 1-2", heels in (or neutral / middle, really); with this stance I've gotten less wobbles.

One thing I've done, which I think all of us do as we get more experienced, is focus on riding as loose as possible; I used to have a death-grip on the wheel / body with my feet and calves, but soon learned as I got more confident, that a loose / wide stance is best, because you eventually learn that the wheel NEEDS to be able to 'wobble' and maneuver side to side between your calves, and is the only way to really carve with easy and fluidity.

When I was learning with a tight, rigid noob stance, carving with crazy angles was just so hard or mysterious to me, but a wide / confident stance has been a game changer and riding is so much more enjoyable and comfortable now.

[mploy1515]

On 11/4/2020 at 9:32 AM, I_Must_Bust said:

How long did it take for everybody to get comfortable with higher speeds? I still get wobbles around 25kph/15mph on my tesla. Haven't been able to ride as much since it gets dark early now but I'd like to be able to cruise at 20mph/32kph and would love to be able to go a bit faster in bursts. Already wearing a moto hoodie, armored jeans, wrist guards, and a face helmet so I feel pretty secure until wobbles kick in. Is it repetition pushing until you wobble or is it slowly creeping up your cruising speed? Something else?   

Still not comfortable in bike lanes on the side of faster roads. I think that'll take a while. Been in parks and neighborhood streets so far. Hopefully as I get comfortable with control at bike speeds that will change.

Good timing on this post haha, I just recently pushed the 30mph mark on my KS-16x, so im curious as well with others like you.

For me, I have about....500-600 miles on my wheel now approx, and have been riding for a couple months. What ive noticed:

- At 20-25mph, I've been able to comfortably / confidently ride and cruise, for the past month (or within 250-350 of mileage ive noticed)

- 30-35mph, literally just this past weekend have broken that barrier and feel pretty confident still. I dont plan to ride frequent like this of course, but just good to know how that feels, and like you, want to know I can reach those speeds.

- in terms of "bursts", I was the same way, just wanting to be able to know I can do that as well, which as ive become more and more intermediate, have noticed thats what ive been practicing the most; being able to burst quickly if needed.

With my gear, if curious, i have a full face helmet, elbow, wrist, and knee guards.

I dont ride fast / reckless consistently enough to warrant any body protection, but of course im not gonna tell you that's "wrong" haha.

I'm the type of rider that enjoys "cruising" (speeds id consider between 15-20 mph) and enjoying the scenery; I intentionally stay on paved bike trails, wide cleanly paved suburban streets, and rarely get myself into sketchy situations like with ton of people, bad roads, or on main streets.

And bike lines with heavy traffic -- totally feel you. I don't mind them, but they're the bottom of my list when i have options.

Edited November 24, 2020 by mploy1515

[Dreygun]

2 hours ago, mploy1515 said:

You eventually learn that the wheel NEEDS to be able to 'wobble' and maneuver side to side between your calves, and is the only way to really carve with easy and fluidity.

This^

Relaxed, loose stance and let the bent legs soak up all the micro wiggles/ bumps. Like driving with a loose grip, much more enjoyable with less muscle adjustments 

Edited November 24, 2020 by Dreygun

[mike_bike_kite]

1 hour ago, mploy1515 said:

- 30-35mph, literally just this past weekend have broken that barrier and feel pretty confident still. I dont plan to ride frequent like this of course, but just good to know how that feels, and like you, want to know I can reach those speeds.

That isn't a safe speed for a 16X. You're living on the knife edge of a cut out.

[mploy1515]

21 hours ago, mike_bike_kite said:

That isn't a safe speed for a 16X. You're living on the knife edge of a cut out.

Well, now that I think of it, not even 35 I hit, but rather 32 is where I have pedal dip set to? I can’t even remember if 16x is capable of 35+  Pretty sure my recent Max was 30-32 though. 
 

Ya this isn’t a normal riding speed for me don’t get me wrong haha. Curious though, when u say this, do u mean in the context that the 16x is not well built enough for those speeds? As opposed to a Sherman? 

[mike_bike_kite]

12 minutes ago, mploy1515 said:

Ya this isn’t a normal riding speed for me don’t get me wrong haha. Curious though, when u say this, do u mean in the context that the 16x is not well built enough for those speeds? As opposed to a Sherman? 

Above 30mph is way too fast on a 16X. It's a great wheel, but it's not meant for speed. It obviously depends on battery charge and your weight etc but I'd set the tilt back to 27mph - I've never ridden the wheel but that's the number I remember from various discussions on here.

[mploy1515]

42 minutes ago, mike_bike_kite said:

Above 30mph is way too fast on a 16X. It's a great wheel, but it's not meant for speed. It obviously depends on battery charge and your weight etc but I'd set the tilt back to 27mph - I've never ridden the wheel but that's the number I remember from various discussions on here.

Good to know!

can others verify this? Last thing I want is a cut out.

im 165 lbs if it matters. 

[Ádám Szitás]

Just look up threads on this forum, you will find many many cases of 16x crashes between 28-31mph

If you do not accelerate fast, it is probably fine, I did it some times as well, but I feel safer on that wheel below 28mph

Edited November 25, 2020 by Ádám Szitás

[Tawpie]

I think that KS uses 30 mph as the maximum safe operating speed and may employ a non-overridable factory set tilt back. I’ve never gone anywhere near that fast in my 16XS so I don’t know either way. Doesn’t mean you can’t make it go faster, but it does imply the manufacturer didn’t design for it to go faster. You can force a Ford Fiesta to go 150 mph, but the faster you go the more likely bad things will happen because Ford didn’t design it for that kind of speed.

[redsnapper]

I have ks16x running on only 1 batt pack (long story) and I do not go above 40kph (and generally use 35kph as my cruising speed). The price of cut out/overlean above 40kph is steep and having had a bad wipeout that mucked up my shoulder at 30kph ( albeit on a trail ), has got me thinking alot more about how to  stay upright. I think you are pushing it if you ride above 40kph. If heavily geared up - maybe not so bad if you wipe. Personally, I ain't flirting with faceplanting anymore!

[shellac]

I'm also trying to get more comfortable with high speed. I've got the newbie wobbles down, I basically just keep the legs relaxed and its no longer an issue.

My main problem now is that when I am close to and above 30 mph I start to hit serious wind resistance and I feel a sensation like I could lose balance off my wheel and fall backwards, which would probably not go well at that speed. At first I thought maybe I was riding in windy conditions, but its not all that windy. Today for example the wind speed was only around 10 mph and gusts of the same speed according to my Dark Sky app. When I was off the wheel I feel some breeze but nothing too aggressive.

Sometimes when I feel said wind resistance, and feel like I might fall backwards, I instinctively lean further forwards to counter it, which results in a vicious cycle where I start going faster than I intended and get even more wind resistance.

I do a wide stance with no pads as described by @houseofjob. Some solutions I've thought of... would getting some low profile power pads and feeling "locked in" help with the sensation I'm describing? Is it simply all in my head and I need more practice at speed? Should I be crouching down aggressively when I get to higher speeds?

Appreciate the advice.

[.....]

@shellac are you a wide figured man in lots of clothing? SOunds like you may need to crouch down to lower your wind resistance. I find your worry odd, as I tend to feel like Im going to fall off the front when at higher speeds. Fighting more winds, only requires me lean forward more and fear front wipeout on a pothole more. I couldnt fathom having to lean as much as 30mph requires AND into the wind, while it making me feel like I'll fall backwards. Perhaps its in your head? If your weight falls backwards, doesnt the wheel slow down? If a blast of wind hits you at 30mph, it should merely slow you down a little and youll lean a little more. It will require more effort to lean the same amount, with more wind. Ive also had wind hit me hard, require me to put more effort to maintain same lean adn speeds, then DIE out, causing me to dip forwards and accelerate a bit extra. I wish i had the answer you seek, but its hard to wrap my head around what your are feeling. If its of any help, I typically have to bend down to a more attack position, to maintain higher speeds into the wind. Im only 130lbs, but damn narrow, so not much resistance. I do find that having small pads on my bigger sherman, assists in control. I also have a RollNZ cover on my 18L, and I tend to lock the ankles in pretty tightly so i can loosen the knees for higher speed ops. Ankles in so the knees can go wide to help toss the beasts thru the turns at speed. Staying locked at the upper calves in turns is not an option, so pads dont help a lot on those. Laughable to think that merely more weight on the balls of my feet can accelerate me in winds or turns.  Perhaps you can try moving your stance forwards just a wee tiny bit, to see if it helps? Or maybe you're so far forward that you neednt lean to go pretty fast. If this is the case, move back on the plates so your speed riding is at a more forward angle and will help combat how you so easily get tossed back? You could always drink more dark beers and more cakes, as I hear that being heavier lower, helps. Beer is carbs and lightens the brain. Cake, well... cake>pie!

Edited December 21, 2020 by ShanesPlanet

[shellac]

@ShanesPlanetI’m not narrow and not wide either. Average I suppose 160 lbs. I am wearing a jacket and whatnot these days so I’m probably catching a bit more wind than I would in other seasons. 

Hah, maybe it is in my head as I’ve yet to experience a frontwards wipeout from a pothole like you describe, though early on in my learning I had a nasty fall backwards while trying to learn to powerbrake before figuring out wobbles. 

I’ll try the attack position, it may be I’m too upright for high speeds. 

[Simply_Striking]

Just give it time, experience is the real teacher here. For wind speed I honestly only try to hit 30 or so when there is a tail wind, any thing else im staying below 25mph on my RS. On thing I do when it is gusty is to slightly angle my body to be a little more stream lined. This is helped by riding with one foot slightly in front of the other. I do not try riding crouched as it seems to upset balance, and increases the chances of wobbling.