Getting Comfortable With Speed

[I_Must_Bust]

How long did it take for everybody to get comfortable with higher speeds? I still get wobbles around 25kph/15mph on my tesla. Haven't been able to ride as much since it gets dark early now but I'd like to be able to cruise at 20mph/32kph and would love to be able to go a bit faster in bursts. Already wearing a moto hoodie, armored jeans, wrist guards, and a face helmet so I feel pretty secure until wobbles kick in. Is it repetition pushing until you wobble or is it slowly creeping up your cruising speed? Something else?   

Still not comfortable in bike lanes on the side of faster roads. I think that'll take a while. Been in parks and neighborhood streets so far. Hopefully as I get comfortable with control at bike speeds that will change.

Edited November 4, 2020 by I_Must_Bust

[johnyz89]

Take it easy. Don't rush for speed, it will eventually come with time. Focus on better/faster starting and train emergency stops. Drive, drive drive its the only way. It usually takes about 1000km to feel comfortable, but don't let it fool your awarnes.

Edited November 4, 2020 by johnyz89

[I_Must_Bust]

I'm all good on starting and stopping since I learned to ride mostly by attempting free mounting over and over rather than launching from a wall. and never had an issue with stopping really. My emergency stops could use some work though.. they cause wobbles for me just like speed but I'm working on them.

[RockyTop]

32 minutes ago, I_Must_Bust said:

I'm all good on starting and stopping since I learned to ride mostly by attempting free mounting over and over rather than launching from a wall. and never had an issue with stopping really. My emergency stops could use some work though.. they cause wobbles for me just like speed but I'm working on them.

I think that I can guess about where you are in skill. You are not one with the wheel yet. I strongly suggest learning to carve back and forth. This is one of the quickest ways to get the feel for your wheel and gain skill levels. 

[.....]

It took me about 2 weeks to hit tiltback comfortably on my 18L (27mph?). Road surface and wind conditions made a big difference. Now that I'm about 1000 miles and 9 months in, 27mph is just a stroll in the park. It took me about 3 minutes when I got the sherm, to comfortably do 35mph. I am now at mile 50 on the sherm and finally hit top speed tilt. Before getting comfy on the 18L at top speed, wobbles are what kept me from going faster. I would listen to Rockytop. Don't push faster than you can comfortable ride without wobbles. Eventually you just get faster with less. Of course, if you overstep your skill at speed, its not very forgiving. Trying to jump off the euc at 20+ mph is not entirely similar to when you hop off at 10mph or less. Be careful and listen to the wobbles. Wobbles at the peak of your speed ability is NOT fun. Shit goes bad REAL quick at faster speeds and it seems more exponential than linear. Riding my mten and zig zags at slower speeds improved my low speed ability by leaps and bounds. Approaching the euc like a sport bike at high speeds in the turns, has increased my ability a tad as well.

@I_Must_Bust Bike speeds? Dude, you will get comfy at much faster speeds than that. When railing thru my winding neighborhood on the sherman, it seriously feels like im riding nearer my supermoto speeds. I mean hell, some of these curves are near impossible at 30mph in a car. Just ride and ride, eventually you will get REALLY good at the style of riding you seem to always fall in to. It seems the more comfy I get, the more I enjoy the ride. Its a different joy, when you quit having to think about it and just start feeling it.... You know, like after last call and you find yourself with a stranger of the opposite sex in the room.

Edited November 6, 2020 by ShanesPlanet

[I_Must_Bust]

9 hours ago, ShanesPlanet said:

@I_Must_Bust Bike speeds? Dude, you will get comfy at much faster speeds than that. When railing thru my winding neighborhood on the sherman, it seriously feels like im riding nearer my supermoto speeds. I mean hell, some of these curves are near impossible at 30mph in a car. Just ride and ride, eventually you will get REALLY good at the style of riding you seem to always fall in to. It seems the more comfy I get, the more I enjoy the ride. Its a different joy, when you quit having to think about it and just start feeling it.... You know, like after last call and you find yourself with a stranger of the opposite sex in the room.

I would be most comfortable once I can cruise considerably faster than anyone in the bike lane so that I can pass without issue. Right now I can pass normal bike people but cruising past the spandex crew will take some work.

So far my electric scooter is better at taking me from point A to B (though less fun) but that's just a matter of skill... Working on putting some miles in for now.

[atdlzpae]

On 11/4/2020 at 6:32 PM, I_Must_Bust said:

How long did it take for everybody to get comfortable with higher speeds?

Infinitely long. After 7k km my average is around 20-25km/h and I rarely hit 30km/h. I hit "comfortable" 30km/h around a 1000km.
I don't see any reason to ride faster - let's be honest, EUC's brake like shit and you never know when it cuts off on you. Also, you need to be prepared for every child, dog or phone addict to jump in front of your wheel.

I don't want to dislocate another shoulder. And thus, I'll take safety over speed.
I'm pretty sure it's genetic or something... Looking at people here I think I'm in a minority.

 

On 11/4/2020 at 6:32 PM, I_Must_Bust said:

I still get wobbles around 25kph/15mph on my tesla. Haven't been able to ride as much since it gets dark early now but I'd like to be able to cruise at 20mph/32kph and would love to be able to go a bit faster in bursts.

Your subconscious has to get enough experience to counter the wobble. Just keep riding. There are no "techniques", no "tips", no "tricks"... Your comfortable speed will go up with every km you've ridden.

And it will fall down with every faceplant or close call.

Edited November 7, 2020 by atdlzpae

[I_Must_Bust]

8 hours ago, atdlzpae said:

Also, you need to be prepared for every child, dog or phone addict to jump in front of your wheel.

I almost took out a little 5' tall lady at 25mph on my eScooter when she randomly sidestepped into the bike lane from the sidewalk a few feet ahead of me. I shouted and barely swerved  around her to the point where she could definitely feel the air as I passed. If there was a car in the lane I swerved into I would be D-E-D

[RockyTop]

1 hour ago, I_Must_Bust said:

I almost took out a little 5' tall lady at 25mph on my eScooter when she randomly sidestepped into the bike lane from the sidewalk a few feet ahead of me. I shouted and barely swerved  around her to the point where she could definitely feel the air as I passed. If there was a car in the lane I swerved into I would be D-E-D

I had a lady push her baby stroller, with baby in the bike lane in front of me. She never even looked. She was too busy digging in the trunk of her car. I had to emergency brake , then jump a side curb at to miss the stroller. She then scolded me! 

[atdlzpae]

I don't dare to wonder what 120kg flying at 20km/h would do to a 5'yo kid... God bless it for changing directions.

Since then I'm quite religious about slowing down before blind spots, even if I'm in a bicycle lane.

[xiiijojjo]

For me it took about 1000km to feel comfortable and about 10000km to feel like an immortal speed god.

[RockyTop]

13 minutes ago, atdlzpae said:

I don't dare to wonder what 120kg flying at 20km/h would do to a 5'yo kid... God bless it for changing directions.

Since then I'm quite religious about slowing down before blind spots, even if I'm in a bicycle lane.

I do my best to assume someone or something is going to come out of the hiding spots. 

  Beautiful artwork!!!!    I believe it is a tribute to the late postpartum era ?    Do you mind if I make a copy for my fridge? Very beautiful!! The sun is just the right mixture of yellow and orange!

[mike_bike_kite]

On 11/4/2020 at 5:32 PM, I_Must_Bust said:

How long did it take for everybody to get comfortable with higher speeds? I still get wobbles around 25kph/15mph on my tesla.

The main thing is feeling comfortable on the wheel. If you're getting wobbles then just ride slower and eventually things will start to click. It's also worth experimenting with different tyre pressures as well. It probably took me 2 months before I felt comfortable at 20mph. Fortunately that's my wheel's top cruising speed so I don't feel obliged to ride any faster and, in the suburban areas I ride in, I don't need to ride any faster. Main thing to remember though is that it's not a race and just to enjoy the ride.

[mrelwood]

I agree with everyone here talking about it taking time until the wheel feels natural to your body, and that there are no shortcuts.

 But foot positioning is still something I would check. The place you land as a beginner is not always the best one.

 Imagine you have no toes. Now center your foot on the pedal so that both fronts and backs of your feet have the same distance to the edge of the pedal. The toes are then hanging over the front of the pedal.

 If I wasn’t able to describe the idea properly, you can just align the back of your foot at the rear and off the pedal. That should get you close enough.

 In both cases once you get familiar with riding, you should try slightly different placings front to back, side to side, as well as toes out or straight.

[xiiijojjo]

2 hours ago, mrelwood said:

But foot positioning is still something I would check. The place you land as a beginner is not always the best one.

 Imagine you have no toes. Now center your foot on the pedal so that both fronts and backs of your feet have the same distance to the edge of the pedal. The toes are then hanging over the front of the pedal.

I've always ridden with 50% of my heel hanging out over the backend of the pedals for optimal foot positioning and for easily braking aggressively. I have never used aftermarket pads, so i found it to be the most efficient stance for braking as i was lacking pads for optimal braking.

Edited November 8, 2020 by xiiijojjo

[.....]

27 minutes ago, xiiijojjo said:

I've always ridden with 50% of my heel hanging out over the backend of the pedals for optimal foot positioning and for easily braking aggressively. I have never used aftermarket pads, so i found it to be the most efficient stance for braking as i was lacking pads for optimal braking.

Wow. I ride with my toes off the front. Usually the balls of my feet are about the end of the plates. I tend to move to the back for braking, but typical stance is forward. Perhaps you should try riding off the front just a little more? Having pads with room to move around a little, sure does help.

[mrelwood]

29 minutes ago, xiiijojjo said:

I've always ridden with 50% of my heel hanging out over the backend of the pedals for optimal foot positioning and for easily braking aggressively. I have never used aftermarket pads, so i found it to be the most efficient stance for braking as i was lacking pads for optimal braking.

That actually probably explains the wobbling. The faster you go, the more you have to put weight on the balls of your feet, decreasing stability and causing your legs to tense up, which is the #1 cause for wobbles.

While I respect your position and where you stand on the braking front (puns intended! ), I suggest you try to stand just 0.5cm (1/4”) forward just to see how it changes things. For emergency braking, sitting down to the invisible chair gives you more braking power, even without pads.

 And if you feel that braking has been impaired, maybe consider experimenting with power/braking pads. Whilea must for 18” wheels, they really do open up more stability for acceleration and braking for a 16” wheel as well.

 One local beginner had the exact same issue when he was starting last summer. Uphills were a cause for severe wobbles and instability. Standing more forward solved the issue for him immediately.

[xiiijojjo]

41 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

Wow. I ride with my toes off the front. Usually the balls of my feet are about the end of the plates. I tend to move to the back for braking, but typical stance is forward. Perhaps you should try riding off the front just a little more? Having pads with room to move around a little, sure does help.

I understand your concern or amazement, i feel the same towards people who ride like you with toes off the front. Whenever i see videos of that i always cringe at how relatively unsafe i consider that riding style, as personally my ability to do aggressive braking seems to completely disappear when riding like that.

To me riding with toes of front assists you in faster acceleration as you can more easily move your center of gravity forward. Just from the stance itself without leaning your center of gravity is further forward albeit a small amount. 

To me riding with heels off the back-end of the pedal assists you in faster and more aggressive braking as your center of gravity is farther behind. Just from the stance itself without leaning your centre of gravity is farther backward albeit a small amount. But more importantly you are able to dig your heel into the edge of the back-end of the pedal to push your euc down with amazing force.

I stop on a dime and for acceleration i simply compensate for the farther backwards center of gravity by leaning more aggressively.
 

i'd compare the difference in the braking power to normal braking on a sherman vs sitting down and holding the roll cage while leaning backwards (i saw it in a video on this forum)

But these are just opinions relation my experiences on euc, also you could easily ride like @ShanesPlanet by doing the opposite of how i ride. So if you are a "toes off the front-end guy" you can simply brake more aggressively by leaning backwards more aggressively when braking, and you wouldn't need to lean as much for acceleration. In the end i don't think any of these are safer or smarter than the other rather different ways of riding with their own pluses and minuses. 

It's the same for math. When i visualize "14x7+7" i see 7x10 +7x5 =105 others might see "15x7" or "4x7+7+10x7" in the end it all equals 105.
So no matter your riding style we'll all eventually end up the same place: IN AN ACCIDENT so please wear your gear+helmet

edit: @mrelwood am not OP I do however have 12.000km+ on eucs and have not have had wobbles since my first 200km. My riding stance does seem to aid my crazy riding habits of always riding just under the 80% beep, you couldn't imagine how often strong emergency braking comes in handy with such riding habits. 

Edited November 8, 2020 by xiiijojjo

[xiiijojjo]

3 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

A valid concern, tho you miss a key factor. DUring braking, I squeeze with my legs and the actual point of contact is mostly at the point near the top rear of the wheel. COmbined with a seated stance position, the majority of braking force is NOT with my feet. The feet really are just lightly standing, as my ankles and upper leg begin to control the stop. DUring accel, it is a little harder to grab from such a top and forward most point on the wheel.  I think that most people ride towards the front, as the ergonimics more generally require it. I used to wobble a bit when i started and I was focusing on standing exactly in the middle of my pedals and evenly. After adopting a slightly more forward stance, my control in accel, and braking seemed to increase. The more forward I stand on the pedals, the more angle i have between my feet and upper leg contact point. Leverage is the key, and you dont get much leverage when you are focusing on JUST the contact patch of your shoe sole.

Most of my braking force is the weight of my person that i aggressively extrude backwards, as you do in a more or less seated stance as you call it,almost crouched, the feet however work as a massive help is the sense that i don't have to lean so far back that i feel uncomfortable out of instinctive fear of falling backwards, or somehow slipping off the pedal due to the aggressive backwards lean... hard to explain. I too use my ankles and upper leg to control (but when accelerating) I also grab the wheel but in reverse because of my stance - I grab the top and backward most point but not when accelerating but when decelerating, it seems pretty much everything is the same but in reverse 

... It's really hard to explain and a video might be better but i have no euc at the moment and have never seen anyone ride with my stance. But i sure do seem outnumbered as i have never seen or read about anyone riding with my stance... However my sense of mastery of riding an euc with this stance makes me completely uninterested in learning other stances or riding styles but this sure is a relevant topic for beginners to reconsider what might be holding them back from progression - the stance.

[I_Must_Bust]

20 hours ago, mike_bike_kite said:

The main thing is feeling comfortable on the wheel. If you're getting wobbles then just ride slower and eventually things will start to click. It's also worth experimenting with different tyre pressures as well. It probably took me 2 months before I felt comfortable at 20mph. Fortunately that's my wheel's top cruising speed so I don't feel obliged to ride any faster and, in the suburban areas I ride in, I don't need to ride any faster. Main thing to remember though is that it's not a race and just to enjoy the ride.

I might try new tire pressure. I the eWheels pressure guide seems to be skewed so low that I don't feel I can use it for my wheel. I learnedd at 30psi and now have it at 40 so I'll probably try 35 or so when I decide to add slime to the tire.  

I found a great park where I can ride on long bumpy gravel  paths which is definitely improving my stability. I was able to comfortable hit 18 with no wobbles yesterday

Edited November 8, 2020 by I_Must_Bust

[jol]

I have a similar question but my concern is moreso bumps rather than wobbles. I hit a large but nearly invisible bump at only 10mph and that was enough to get airborne for a split second. And sometimes when I hit bumps, my feet slide back a bit on the pedals. I've been going slow enough that it's not a big deal and I can easily readjust afterwards, but that seems daunting at higher speeds. Is there a specific technique for handling bumps?

Edited November 8, 2020 by jol

[I_Must_Bust]

1 hour ago, jol said:

I have a similar question but my concern is moreso bumps rather than wobbles. I hit a large but nearly invisible bump at only 10mph and that was enough to get airborne for a split second. And sometimes when I hit bumps, my feet slide back a bit on the pedals. I've been going slow enough that it's not a big deal and I can easily readjust afterwards, but that seems daunting at higher speeds. Is there a specific technique for handling bumps?

I never have had much of an issue with bumps but that could be because I learned on grass and gravel before pavement. I would say riding in uneven grassy fields and making sure your knees are always slightly bent is what helped me.

Edited November 8, 2020 by I_Must_Bust

[Simply_Striking]

Just to Chime in here. I think Stance, experience riding, and small amounts of caring help. For back ground I am new to this and have barely 200 miles on a RS19. I used to get the wobbles at around 15mph, I changed my stance a bit, (more forward) it helped but it feels weird and I am not able to stop as quickly as I would like. A trade off I am not 100% set on. I have moved my foot back a little, but when the wobbles start I lean the wheel against one leg, and kinda do a small carve. It takes the wobbles out, but I do not feel comfortable going faster than 25mph at the moment. Also my leg feels weird with the carve, if  have to maneuver suddenly gryo is a bitch and the wobble after is a scary.

[.....]

2 hours ago, jol said:

I have a similar question but my concern is moreso bumps rather than wobbles. I hit a large but nearly invisible bump at only 10mph and that was enough to get airborne for a split second. And sometimes when I hit bumps, my feet slide back a bit on the pedals. I've been going slow enough that it's not a big deal and I can easily readjust afterwards, but that seems daunting at higher speeds. Is there a specific technique for handling bumps?

Knees bent, aggressive posture, squeeze like hell with the ankles and calves. Not much more you can do but try to anticipate the bumps, stay fluid in the knees, lower tire pressures and hope like hell you stay on the damn thing. Its pretty damn exciting when your feet bounce to the back of the pedals from an unforseen dip in the road at 35mph... makes the testes crawl right on up in there.... I try to keep a cigarette lit, just in case its going to be my last

Edited November 8, 2020 by ShanesPlanet

[I_Must_Bust]

On 11/6/2020 at 5:31 PM, ShanesPlanet said:

It took me about 2 weeks to hit tiltback comfortably on my 18L (27mph?). Road surface and wind conditions made a big difference.

I actually just did the same on my tesla during my lunch ride! I'm surprised how fast I got comfortable once I broke that 15mph threshold.