Popular Post Seba Posted February 8, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted February 8, 2020 (edited) Some time ago I posted informations about conversion of stock 10 A / 84 V into current regulated charger with multifunction meter. It serves me well, helping me during my various long-distance tours. Thanks to high charging current I can shorten charging stop to minimum. The only problem is that original fan is quite noisy, so in some smaller or quieter restarurants it makes so much noise that owner or waiter thinks that it draws a lot of power. Or at least I think so So I decided to replace noisy fan with silent one (in my case Sunon Maglev HA60251V4-1000U-A99). And the difference is VERY noticeable: Edited February 8, 2020 by Seba 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mimetic Polyalloy Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 Very interessting attemp to calm down the hell-of-a-noise type fan . I would like to follow your idea and apply it for my similar brick chargers as well. Do you know why the replacement fan is much more silent? In my opinion there could be mainly 2 reasons: Better fan design Lower RPM at given voltage Do you know if the resulting airflow rate would be the same? Or should it be enough even if lower than before? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seba Posted February 12, 2020 Author Share Posted February 12, 2020 On 2/8/2020 at 10:04 PM, Mimetic Polyalloy said: Very interessting attemp to calm down the hell-of-a-noise type fan . I would like to follow your idea and apply it for my similar brick chargers as well. Do you know why the replacement fan is much more silent? In my opinion there could be mainly 2 reasons: Better fan design Lower RPM at given voltage Do you know if the resulting airflow rate would be the same? Or should it be enough even if lower than before? I concur to you about causes of fan silence. I would only add maglev bearing to this, creating a small air gap between stator and rotor. According to datasheets, original fan has airflow at 23.7 CFM while new fan has "only" 13.8 CFM. But these parameters cannot be considered in isolation from static pressure. With airflow resistances causing a pressure of only 2mm H2O causes air flow of the original fan to drop to about 11 CFM. This is the same as for the Sunon fan at the same static pressure, so in fact they provide the same cooling efficiency. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EUC Custom Power-Pads Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 (edited) I have another charger that is actually not so loud, but I wouldn't mind it being even quieter. Did you have that fan in there too? The original fan has seven blades and the Sunon only five blades. Maybe that's just the reason why it's quieter? I find different pictures of this fan. Sometimes it has five blades then again seven blades. What's right? Edited February 12, 2020 by buell47 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seba Posted February 12, 2020 Author Share Posted February 12, 2020 49 minutes ago, buell47 said: I have another charger that is actually not so loud, but I wouldn't mind it being even quieter. Did you have that fan in there too? They are all more or less the same. Yours is almost identical to the one I've replaced. 50 minutes ago, buell47 said: I find different pictures of this fan. Sometimes it has five blades then again seven blades. What's right? It has seven blades: http://portal.sunon.com.tw/pls/portal/sunonap.sunon_html_d_pkg.open_file?input_file_name=7264646F632F3230313631312F3234313838332F28443036303737343930472D3030292D312E2E706466 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EUC Custom Power-Pads Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 Thank you, then I will order this fan as well. Even if it has a little less power, there should be no problems, because I don't run the charger with a full 12 amps, but only with 8 amps. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tazarinho Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 On 2/8/2020 at 4:32 PM, Seba said: It serves me well, helping me during my various long-distance tours. I'm thinking more and more about doing longer tours, but I don't dare to go higher than 5A charging on the 16X. I was thinking about using the fast charger on the road and the standard charger overnight, for balancing. My question is, do you charge all the way with the fast charger when on the road. Or do you stop at say 90% to minimize strain on the battery? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Seba Posted March 3, 2020 Author Popular Post Share Posted March 3, 2020 1 minute ago, Tazarinho said: I'm thinking more and more about doing longer tours, but I don't dare to go higher than 5A charging on the 16X. I was thinking about using the fast charger on the road and the standard charger overnight, for balancing. Just get regulated 1 - 5 A charger and you have all in one solution You can charge your wheel with 5 Amps when on tour and still use the same charger set to 1 A for overnight charging and balancing. Ensure your charger doesn't cut off output when green light goes on. Some chargers are equipped with cutoff relay that will prevent balancing to work. 2 minutes ago, Tazarinho said: My question is, do you charge all the way with the fast charger when on the road. Or do you stop at say 90% to minimize strain on the battery? I don't baby my battery. Charge fast and to 100 %. Be a man, take her hard - she'll love it, trust me Just avoid charging in elevated temperatures (above 30°C) and make sure your charger outputs no more than 84.5 V when idle (use good multimeter). 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lefteris Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 7 minutes ago, Seba said: I don't baby my battery. Charge fast and to 100 %. Be a man, take her hard - she'll love it, trust me man oh man!!! that was epic!!! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Seba Posted March 3, 2020 Author Popular Post Share Posted March 3, 2020 1 minute ago, Lefteris said: man oh man!!! that was epic!!! But seriously. KS-16X is a ~1600 Wh wheel with battery configured as a six paralell strings of 20 cells in each string (6P20S). Each cell receive only 1/6 of charger current. So if we have a 5 A charger it means that each cell is charged with current of 833 mA. This is in no way a fast charge. More, according to the cell manufacturer, standard charging current is set at 1700 mA (1.7 A) - a twice of that. Standard, not quick. Even if you want to charge in a way that doesn't reduce battery life at all, you can do it with 1020 mA per cell (so-called chargin current for cycle life). This means that charging with 6 A will have the same impact on battery life as charging with 1.5 A. Of course there are other components that have its own current rating like wires, connectors and BMS circuitry. Still, 5 A is safe current for charging KS-16X using single charging port. It's price that causes manufacturers to include 1.5 A chargers in EUC package. Because EUC without a charger is useless, they have to inlcude one with each EUC and they add the cheapest charger available. Just take a look at factory chargers for Gotway, King Song, Inmotion and Ninebot. In most cases this is the same black brick that is provided by 3rd party like Jin Xin You Power, Shenzen Fuyuandian etc. They only change charging connectors to fit particular wheel model. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lefteris Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 Can you do the same "ninja-math" for the Nikola Plus 1800Wh with the 21700 cells? I'm getting a 3amp charger that they peg it as "fast-charger". Is it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seba Posted March 3, 2020 Author Share Posted March 3, 2020 (edited) 37 minutes ago, Lefteris said: Can you do the same "ninja-math" for the Nikola Plus 1800Wh with the 21700 cells? I'm getting a 3amp charger that they peg it as "fast-charger". Is it? AFAIK Nikola+ has 4P24S battery and is based on Panasonic NCR21700A cells. Standard charge is 1500 mA per cell, so standard charging current will be 6 A. In no way 3 A charger can be considered "fast" while providing only half of standard charging current. Of course it's still twice as fast as original 1.5 A charger. Edited March 3, 2020 by Seba 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lefteris Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 Then off do buy a 6amp one care to suggest any? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seba Posted March 3, 2020 Author Share Posted March 3, 2020 5 minutes ago, Lefteris said: Then off do buy a 6amp one care to suggest any? I don't know of any 100 V chargers I could recommend you Bro 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planemo Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 https://www.pmbatterychargers.com/800w-1008v-5a-6a-7a-8a-lithium-battery-charger-for-24s-ebike-gotway-li-ion-lipo-battery-pack-power-supply-p2249064.html 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 19 minutes ago, Lefteris said: Then off do buy a 6amp one GX16 charge port max amperage is 5A. And Gotway's charging cabling is flimsy, too (they doubled it on the MSP at least). 4.5A to 5A is the max recommended for Gotways, you want more, you need to mod in more charge ports. 3A (standard charger) is probably a nice compromise between charger size and weight (not too massive) and charging time (short enough). If you need more, get an extra 2A or 1.5A 100V charger and use a charge doctor or Y cable to connect both. Or a 4.5A charger. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planemo Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 Link the pins on the stock charge port if you are that concerned. Its fine. And even the 'old' gotway charge wiring is 20g silicone, which is good for 12A. Been running 6A chargers on the Z10 and MSX for some time. No problems with either. And yes they were both temp probed on the first charges just to check. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tazarinho Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 2 hours ago, Seba said: I don't baby my battery. Charge fast and to 100 %. Be a man, take her hard - she'll love it, trust me Just avoid charging in elevated temperatures (above 30°C) and make sure your charger outputs no more than 84.5 V when idle (use good multimeter). Perfect! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tazarinho Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 2 hours ago, Seba said: This means that charging with 6 A will have the same impact on battery life as charging with 1.5 A. Of course there are other components that have its own current rating like wires, connectors and BMS circuitry. Still, 5 A is safe current for charging KS-16X using single charging port. Both KingSong and 1RadWerkstatt told me that the wires in the KS16X are rather thin and therefore they wouldn't recommend more than 5A, which is why that was my limit. I'll have to check in practice if it is enough for what I want to do. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Sam Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 (edited) Thanks Seba! I can now fast charge in my Office. Its a bit hacky looking right now but it works. FYI anyone attempts this on the fast charger from ewheels even though charger looked like same one from Seba's post, the part recommended HA60251V4-1000U-A99 is actually a tad size larger than the original fan in my unit. Original fan @ 2" , HA60251V4-1000U-A99 @ 2.25" No matter, instead of ordering and waiting for another I ran the wire through the grill and mounted on the outside of the unit. Right now I have it taped, but I'm going to epoxy it after I'm sure I'm going to keep it like this. I can say though... the (HA60251V4-1000U-A99) is night and day to the sound of the stock fan!! I'm so happy. I can fast charge in my office now and not have it sound like a helicopter is landing! Edited February 19, 2021 by Rich Sam formatting 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tawpie Posted February 20, 2021 Share Posted February 20, 2021 On 3/3/2020 at 4:33 AM, Tazarinho said: KingSong and 1RadWerkstatt told me that the wires in the KS16X are rather thin I'm betting that the limit is in the square/rectangular Lenovo connector's wires, which were probably sized based on the connector pin. The only 'replacement' I could find has pictures that show very small gauge wiring... I've ordered one so I can use a more generic faster charger so when it arrives I'll check how thin they are. If they look too thin, then I'll probably get the Gotway-Lenovo adapter that eWheels sells and go that route, hoping the adapter has heftier wires than I can find as a replacement part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Sam Posted February 20, 2021 Share Posted February 20, 2021 It begs the question though. These premium fast chargers cannot pony up for a quality fan, I purchased this brushless 5 dollar fan with free shipping without any bulk discount. Makes me wonder where else they cut corners, surely someone has to have said... dang that is a loud fan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siffleur Posted January 9, 2022 Share Posted January 9, 2022 @Seba @Rich Sam @EUC Custom Power-Pads can you each say which revision ewheels smart charger you have? I’m trying to understand the discrepancy in size of fan before I order some for myself and friends. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EUC Custom Power-Pads Posted January 9, 2022 Share Posted January 9, 2022 (edited) I've already sold my 16X and because of that, the charger too. Edited January 9, 2022 by EUC Custom Power-Pads Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tawpie Posted January 9, 2022 Share Posted January 9, 2022 6 hours ago, siffleur said: can you each say which revision ewheels smart charger you have? I’m trying to understand the discrepancy in size of fan before I order some for myself and friends. Thanks! The fast charger eWheels sells changes fairly frequently (pretty sure its a commodity charger). For example, mine doesn't have a 110/220V switch (removed upon request evidently, due to customers blowing them up by having the switch in the wrong position). Since the fire, I'm guessing what eWheels has is likely different again, so it'll be a bit of crap shoot on what you get... but you can always replace the fans if they're too noisy. Just be sure to get replacements that have at least as much CFM and static pressure as what's already in there. Proper cooling of the charger is important! DigiKey, Mouser, and Grainger are all good US sources for parts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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