Soldering XLR to C36 (Lenovo) cable

[njay]

I'm planning to buy a KingSong 16X next month and want to use my Cycle Satiator to charge it.

The problem is that CS has a 3-pin XLR charging output but the 16X has C36 (Lenovo) charging ports. It doesn't look like there's a commercial XLR-C36 cable  so I'm thinking of making my own.

My plan is to solder a XLR cable to this one. The XLR has 3 wires but the C36 end only has two. 

I'm new to soldering, what should I do with the ground wire?

[esaj]

On a quick glance at the Cycle Satiator page, it says:

Quote

Each Satiator includes a 1m long DC ouput cable that is terminated in a 3-pin male XLR plug. This is a fairly common connector for ebike battery packs, and is used by Allcell and eZee batteries as well as many turn-key electric bikes and scooters.  Pin 1 is V+, Pin 2 is Gnd, and Pin 3 is for both temperature sensing (with NiCad/NiMH packs) and communications. 

The wheel battery only has DC plus and "minus" (ground), there's no temperature sensing, so just solder the + and ground. Take care to check that the polarity is the right way around. Double check that, I don't have a wheel with the Lenovo-plug, but just because Lenovo has decided that one part of the connector is "-" and one part is "+" doesn't mean other manufacturers using the plug actually follow their scheme (although probably they do). Someone with knowledge of the wheel Lenovo-connector polarity can probably confirm it (like @Seba perhaps?).

EDIT: After @z3n's clarification about the Cycle Satiator maximum voltages below, do check that your model is the 7205. The other models can't reach high enough voltage (84V / 20S battery packs) to charge your wheel.

Edited December 18, 2019 by esaj

[z3n]

44 minutes ago, esaj said:

Scratch the above, the Cycle Satiator can only go up to 60V DC, so it cannot provide enough voltage to charge your wheel. Sorry.

Models

At present, we have designed 3 models of the Satiator charger optimized for different voltage ranges all sharing the same great feature set and firmware. The 48V 8A and 72V 5A models are both in full production, while the 24V 15A model is available for samples from interested OEM parties.

Model Name	2415	4808	7205
Max Voltage	36V	63V	103V
Max Current	15A*	8A*	5A*
Typical Batteries	12-24V	24V-52V	36V-84V

*Current also clamped by 360 watt power limit

[esaj]

16 minutes ago, z3n said:

Models

At present, we have designed 3 models of the Satiator charger optimized for different voltage ranges all sharing the same great feature set and firmware. The 48V 8A and 72V 5A models are both in full production, while the 24V 15A model is available for samples from interested OEM parties.

Model Name	2415	4808	7205
Max Voltage	36V	63V	103V
Max Current	15A*	8A*	5A*
Typical Batteries	12-24V	24V-52V	36V-84V

*Current also clamped by 360 watt power limit

Thanks for the heads up, so it needs to be the 7205 to charge the KS 16X (20S = 84V battery pack). Edited my post above.

[Aneta]

I have SS, too, it can charge up to 100V (24s) batteries. It's great to have programmable voltage and current!

OP: just leave the third pin unused, there's no such thing as "ground" in our wheels. I bought an XLR->XT60 adapter from Grin, and made a XT60->GX16-3 myself to charge my GT16. It's not rocket science.

Edited December 18, 2019 by Aneta

[Hansolo]

Like this...

[Seba]

13 hours ago, esaj said:

Someone with knowledge of the wheel Lenovo-connector polarity can probably confirm it (like @Seba perhaps?).

[Aneta]

9 hours ago, Seba said:

Wait. WHAT?!?! They put +84V on exposed outer metal part?! (on laptops and in the world of common sense, exposed part is always 0/GND)

If yes, I'll take on yoga classes to be able to bring my feet to my face for a double facefoot, as double facepalm is not enough.

Edited December 19, 2019 by Aneta

[Seba]

2 minutes ago, Aneta said:

Wait. WHAT?!?! They put +84V on exposed outer metal part?! (on laptops and in the world of common sense, exposed part is always 0/GND)

This is not a problem because there is full galvanical separation between primary (AC) and secondary (DC) side. Especially, negative (-) is not grounded. And it's not uncommon to have a positive terminal on exposed metal part.

[Aneta]

1 minute ago, Seba said:

This is not a problem because there is full galvanical separation between primary (AC) and secondary (DC) side. Especially, negative (-) is not grounded. And it's not uncommon to have a positive terminal on exposed metal part.

Wouldn't it spark if it touched something grounded?

[Seba]

Just now, Aneta said:

Wouldn't it spark if it touched something grounded?

As long as neither terminal is grounded, connecting any of it with ground won't close the circuit so no current will flow. This is similar to IT ("isolee-terre") network system. Whatever terminal you'll touch, you're safe in normal operating conditions (excluding leakages).

[Aneta]

18 minutes ago, Seba said:

As long as neither terminal is grounded, connecting any of it with ground won't close the circuit so no current will flow. This is similar to IT ("isolee-terre") network system. Whatever terminal you'll touch, you're safe in normal operating conditions (excluding leakages).

I see now. You're absolutely correct. Voltages are relative, so that outer +84 can be considered 0 if we simultaneously consider the inner one as -84. Or 1000084V and 1000000V, only difference matters (unless there's a leak).

But still... a weird choice on KS part. The common sense is to always follow the established polarity of any connector, to avoid any surprises. And if someone plugs 84V into their 20V Lenovo laptop, it's their problem.

[Seba]

On 12/19/2019 at 8:03 PM, Aneta said:

I see now. You're absolutely correct. Voltages are relative, so that outer +84 can be considered 0 if we simultaneously consider the inner one as -84. Or 1000084V and 1000000V, only difference matters (unless there's a leak).

But still... a weird choice on KS part. The common sense is to always follow the established polarity of any connector, to avoid any surprises. And if someone plugs 84V into their 20V Lenovo laptop, it's their problem.

But the same is with Inmotion V5F - positive terminal is on external part of plug (negative is on pin though).

EDIT: I was wrong. I've just checked - Imotion V5F has "+" terminal on center pin and "-" terminal on inner tab. I don't know why I though that they both have "+" on outer tab.

Edited December 22, 2019 by Seba

[njay]

I've decided to crimp instead of solder, unless I'm advised otherwise.

Just to confirm, should I be connecting + to +, - to -, and leave GND untouched?

 

[mrelwood]

 

On 12/20/2019 at 2:41 AM, njay said:

Just to confirm, should I be connecting + to +, - to -, and leave GND untouched?

Look at the photo @Seba provided. KS uses the connector - as + and vice versa. So if there is a small + sign on the connector, you connect the - cable onto that one.

Whatever you decide to do or end up with, I will never connect a 3rd party or modified charger to any wheel before measuring the polarity against the original charger that was provided. Borrow a multimeter if you don’t own one.

[houseofjob]

On 12/19/2019 at 2:08 PM, Seba said:

But the same is with Inmotion V5F - positive terminal is on external part of plug (negative is on pin though).

Good stuff @Seba.

Out of curiosity though, since the positives are the same on InMotion & KS Lenovo plugs and the negative is not grounded, if you used an InMotion wired Lenovo to charge an 84V King Song & vice-versa, would the wheel run into issue? or would nothing happen? Thanks in advance.

Edited December 22, 2019 by houseofjob

[Seba]

23 minutes ago, houseofjob said:

On 12/19/2019 at 8:08 PM, Seba said:

But the same is with Inmotion V5F - positive terminal is on external part of plug (negative is on pin though).

Good stuff @Seba.

Sorry, I was wrong. I've updated my previous post.

[redsnapper]

i notice the xve chrger that came with this usa sold ks16x  does not say compat with 120ac - when i test without load i get 83.2v is this normal?