Beginning Wheel

[Mono]

On 11/25/2019 at 4:52 AM, MDMason said:

I still haven't purchased a beginning wheel. Waiting for Black Friday deals if there are any. My OneWheel keeps me entertained for now. Considering the new v8f,  but for the money ($100 more) the v10 is a better buy. Any more thoughts on the subject?

I assume that pedal size is a relevant factor (for ease of learning), which would clearly favor the V8F over the V8. Among others, the V8F and V10 have the largest pedals in the field. I would also think that lighter should be better, but it's hard to predict how relevant that would be for you.

Edited November 27, 2019 by Mono

[MDMason]

I have not considered pedal size as a factor. I have noticed that no one has mentioned physical size as a factor. Wheel size yes. The larger is more stable along with tire size.

[mrelwood]

1 hour ago, MDMason said:

I have not considered pedal size as a factor. I have noticed that no one has mentioned physical size as a factor.

Maybe not in this thread... 

[Mono]

10 hours ago, MDMason said:

I have not considered pedal size as a factor. I have noticed that no one has mentioned physical size as a factor.

Most of us have been complaining about pedal size at some point in time at some place in the forum, usually in the context of comfort or ability to accelerate or climb. Even the largest pedals are less than 250mm long and hence do not cover a 44 size foot. One gets used to small pedals, but I can imagine that they are one of the more relevant factors for making learning more difficult, because it is a weird and insecure feeling when half of your front foot is hanging in the air to begin with. To be able to relax is a big help to learn quickly.

Quote

Wheel size yes. The larger is more stable along with tire size.

No wheel is inherently left-right stable, so you have to learn to balance, that's what learning to ride is all about in the beginning. The only reliably way to balance the wheel is to twist or swivel it, much like we swivel the handlebar of a bicycle to balance left-right (which becomes apparent only when we go slowly). The best learner wheel, I would suggest, is the one which makes swiveling as effortless as possible. That doesn't suggest that the larger the better is correct. The "stability" of a large wheel might help to fall off only after 2m instead of after 1m, but that is not necessarily conducive to the learning process.

Edited November 27, 2019 by Mono

[mike_bike_kite]

On 10/13/2019 at 7:28 PM, MDMason said:

Ok, with that input lets compare the MSX with the Nikola for a beginners wheel.

I'm just a beginner so you can take this with a pinch of salt. Neither of those wheels are beginner's wheels. The Nikola is currently the fastest wheel available, it's heavy (you'll be trying to pick it up every 5 mins) and the casing looks particularly fragile (you'll be crashing every 5 mins). The MSX is more rugged but it's still not aimed at beginners. I weigh 210lbs and I'm currently learning on my V5f, I'm actually enjoying learning and find even the little V5f quite terrifying as I fly around the local tennis court. If I had to pick up a Nikola every time I fell then I'd probably of given up.

The Onewheel is much easier to learn than an EUC. Also remember that gravel roads are going to be hard work on an EUC , let alone for a beginner, and should be easier on the Onewheel.  

On 10/3/2019 at 1:15 AM, Senior Coffee said:

Oh yeah, I'm 55, old guys rule lol.

55 is old????? I feel fairly young and I'm older than you!

[MDMason]

Well no Black Friday deals to sway me. I'm thinking a 3 inch tire and a cover to protect it from damage during the learning phase. Not too many to choose from that meets that criteria.

NZ makes the neoprene covers for the KS,  but the 16X is the only one with a 3 inch tire. Inmotion comes with covers but not a 3 inch tire. It's a good thing my OneWheel is keeping me entertained during this process. Maybe that's all I need.
 

[PLEASE_DELETE]

Deleted.

Edited March 18 by PLEASE_DELETE

[MDMason]

My understanding from other members is that it provides more stability on the gravel road and trails that I will be operating it on. I live in a rural area of Nebraska. 

[Ben Kim]

On 11/28/2019 at 3:54 AM, mike_bike_kite said:

I'm just a beginner so you can take this with a pinch of salt. Neither of those wheels are beginner's wheels. The Nikola is currently the fastest wheel available, it's heavy (you'll be trying to pick it up every 5 mins) and the casing looks particularly fragile (you'll be crashing every 5 mins). The MSX is more rugged but it's still not aimed at beginners. I weigh 210lbs and I'm currently learning on my V5f, I'm actually enjoying learning and find even the little V5f quite terrifying as I fly around the local tennis court. If I had to pick up a Nikola every time I fell then I'd probably of given up.

The Onewheel is much easier to learn than an EUC. Also remember that gravel roads are going to be hard work on an EUC , let alone for a beginner, and should be easier on the Onewheel.  

55 is old????? I feel fairly young and I'm older than you!

The Nikola casing is fragile?  NYC tested, it has one of the toughest outer shells on the market today.  

The MSX is NOT rugged by any stretch of the imagination.  The trolley handle will break, its not a matter of if, its a matter of when.  The inner shell has also been known to be a weak point of this particular wheel.

The MSX is FAR more beginner-friendly from a ridability standpoint than the Nikola.  The Nikola has the "gyro effect" that makes it counterintuitive to turn into and accelerate.  You almost have to use your turn-side heel to turn the wheel as opposed to the balls of your feet.  The MSX rides much more neutral and thus will lend itself better to a new rider.  

With that said, I still hold firm when saying buy a solid used wheel and see if you even like riding EUC before you splurge on a new 100V wheel.  Many people buy EUCs and quit trying because of the learning curve or they had an unlucky first fall ruining their experience.

[mike_bike_kite]

Fragile from the point of view that that pretty shiny black casing is going to be hitting the floor every 60 seconds while the OP is learning. That expensive $2K wheel is going to look knackered after a week or two of learning but at least we agree that neither wheel is good for a beginner.

The OP is aged 64 and stated "I have a ONE WHEEL that I struggled learning to ride and am still not very confident on it". Many folk say that learning EUC is 10x more difficult than learning the one wheel. Is it fair to recommend getting an EUC at all?

[MDMason]

On 12/5/2019 at 3:02 AM, mike_bike_kite said:

Is it fair to recommend getting an EUC at all?

This dilemma is exactly why I haven't pulled the trigger on one yet. Buy a lower end model and it might hinder your learning curve or buy a higher quality one and if you can't learn the skillset you have just wasted a couple thousand dollars.

[mrelwood]

2 hours ago, MDMason said:

This dilemma is exactly why I haven't pulled the trigger on one yet. Buy a lower end model and it might hinder your learning curve or buy a higher quality one and if you can't learn the skillset you have just wasted a couple thousand dollars.

This is of course a purely personal decision you have to make. So far what I’ve seen and read over the years is that it boils down to commitment. Yes, it will feel impossible at first. What do you do then? If you give up, you have indeed wasted a few hundred bucks (there’s still re-sell value) for a not-so-nice experience. If you keep on practicing, with well over 90% certainty you will eventually nail it and have the fun of your life! Extremely few people can’t ride even with proper commitment to learn. There are several riders even over the age of 70. For some even the first step may take several hours, while others can get started in a matter of minutes.

There are many good midrange models you could look into as well, second hand or new. You would lose less money selling them forward, yet most of them have been the top performers just 2 years back, and have been the spotlights of many of our lives for a full year or more: V10F, 16S, V8F, Tesla.

Whichever choice you make, body protection is crucial. Best to make a habit of not even getting on the wheel without full coverage of wrist, knee, elbow, head, and perhaps even shoulder and hip protection.

Edited December 7, 2019 by mrelwood

[MDMason]

30 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

There are many good midrange models you could look into as well, second hand or new. You would lose less money selling them forward, yet most of them have been the top performers just 2 years back, and have been the spotlights of many of our lives for a full year or more: V10F, 16S, V8F, Tesla.

So with this in mind what wheel would be preferred to learn the skillset but retain the best resale in the event of failing this pursuit?

[Mono]

13 hours ago, MDMason said:

This dilemma is exactly why I haven't pulled the trigger on one yet. Buy a lower end model and it might hinder your learning curve or buy a higher quality one and if you can't learn the skillset you have just wasted a couple thousand dollars.

You have somewhat shifted the goal post, as in the OP you wrote that "money is not a concern". Let me emphasize three things. 1) nobody knows what the best learning wheel is 2) I maintain that you want a light wheel with large pedals for learning 3) if you find a good teacher your chances to fail probably decrease dramatically.

Edited December 7, 2019 by Mono

[mrelwood]

9 hours ago, MDMason said:

So with this in mind what wheel would be preferred to learn the skillset but retain the best resale in the event of failing this pursuit?

What makes this a difficult question to answer, and why we’ll always see differing answers, is that every wheel has it’s pros and quirks. One has to weigh which quirks will be the easiest to live with. 

V10F: Pedals may crack in use, and may even cause a danger if not inspected regularly.

16S: The motor whine is quite loud, and the wheel is a bit low and wide.

V8F: The V8 had a low powered motor causing accidents near the top speed. Hopefully the new V8F is better. Range is still very low though.

Tesla: Boxy shell is bad for comfort, and the shell seems to crack easier than others.

Buying the wheel second hand saves money, and the re-sell value doesn’t drop immediately. But if the battery has been handled badly, a new pack might cost as much as the wheel itself. So, pros and cons to everything.

[RockyTop]

@mrelwood gives great advice. 

Here is a great video to help you conciser.  @Jimmy Chang did a great job of putting it together. (Has only been riding 9 months, Very wise! )

One thing I can tell you is that we are not getting any younger. The sooner you start the better. I only wish I had one of these things when I was younger. 

 

[Jimmy Chang]

On 12/7/2019 at 8:19 AM, RockyTop said:

@mrelwood gives great advice. 

Here is a great video to help you conciser.  @Jimmy Chang did a great job of putting it together. (Has only been riding 9 months, Very wise! )

One thing I can tell you is that we are not getting any younger. The sooner you start the better. I only wish I had one of these things when I was younger. 

 

Thanks for sharing! If I were to revise this video, I would probably add a blurb on buying used. 3 of my 4 Onewheels were purchased used and it's a great way to save some money. But my EUCs were all purchased new so I don't have any experience with buying a used EUC. Does anyone know of a good resource on how to buy a used EUC?

[RockyTop]

17 minutes ago, Jimmy Chang said:

Does anyone know of a good resource on how to buy a used EUC?

My answer would be to research here on the forum and then possibly buy from this forum. 

https://forum.electricunicycle.org/?forumId=24

If you see something you like, you could ask others here about the model and vintage. 

[Jimmy Chang]

On 9/8/2019 at 3:23 PM, MDMason said:

I have researched this issue to the point I'm more undecided than ever. I'm 64 years old 220 lbs. My riding environment is rural off road and gravel roads. I have a ONE WHEEL that I struggled learning to ride and am still not very confident on it. I would like to try a EUC but don't want my learning curve to be hindered by the wrong EUC. I have read every available thread and viewed every video on the subject and i'm still undecided. Money is not a concern for the right wheel. As I struggle with the ONE WHEEL  I am sure the struggle on the EUC will be overwhelming. It is this premonition that I am seeking the counsel of this forum. If I purchase one I want to have all the mechanical advantages available so the only excuse is my abilities. Thanks in advance for all your insights.

This advice isn't so much about what wheel to get. I already covered that in a YouTube video that was shared earlier. I want to share something that helped my son learn how to ride.

My daughter picked up the EUC crazy fast... like in less than an hour. My son has dabbled around with my EUC and still struggles but he enjoys pushing around a shopping cart while riding on it. No matter what wheel you get, I think a shopping cart is a great way to get familiar with an EUC and to grow some confidence when learning how to ride.

[MDMason]

I hope I didn't make the wrong decision, but I just ordered a MTen 3. It seems others enjoy this wheel when even after they purchase other wheels. With the 3 inch tubeless tire and small profile it seems to make sense to me as a beginning wheel. I appreciate everybody's opinion on this matter. 

[mrelwood]

Congrats for ordering your first EUC! Choosing can be quite frustrating. Mten isn’t the most usual choice as a vehicle for ”rural offroad and gravel roads”, but the wheel being your learner wheel there doesn’t need to be much weight on getting a proper ”vehicle” as a first one. And people keep saying that the Mten is great fun!

If indeed ”money is no object”, it shouldn’t be a problem to purchase a larger wheel for longer and more stable travels once you get familiar with riding and have found which traits you might prefer.

Happy waiting!

[Satoki Nagata]

Congratulations ! 

I got first EUC in middle of Oct but it was a wrong choice of two-wheels from eBay. Then I got KS16s in early Nov from ewheels.com. I have been thinking that if I got MTen3 as first EUC, it would be great for initial learning and keep enjoying along with new wheel.

I am age of 50’s, and have some physical disability (hard to walk more than a couple of blocks or 10 min so I regularly need to use wheelchair or Ninebot S-Segway mini) and very limited to go out for two years. Surprisingly, my joint problem does not affect at all to EUC learning/riding and now after one month, I can ride 10-15 miles easily without rest. Life has changed. I can go out so much more than before.

Hope you will become comfortable to ride soon! In early stage of practice, pedals might attack your ankles so I recommend to prepare for it. I use this Ankle guard and this little thing works well with regular shoes https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07CZD3LB2/ 

 

[Mono]

28 minutes ago, Satoki Nagata said:

I am age of 50’s, and have some physical disability (hard to walk more than a couple of blocks or 10 min so I regularly need to use wheelchair or Ninebot S-Segway mini) and very limited to go out for two years. Surprisingly, my joint problem does not affect at all to EUC learning/riding and now after one month, I can ride 10-15 miles easily without rest. Life has changed. I can go out so much more than before.

Nice. It really surprises me that this seems to be a common theme despite the (extremely) steep learning curve for EUCs.

[Ben Kim]

22 hours ago, MDMason said:

I hope I didn't make the wrong decision, but I just ordered a MTen 3. It seems others enjoy this wheel when even after they purchase other wheels. With the 3 inch tubeless tire and small profile it seems to make sense to me as a beginning wheel. I appreciate everybody's opinion on this matter. 

it’s a twitchy wheel for beginners, but i find it pleasant to ride and pick it over my other wheels for short distance errands. It gets a little old hauling a heavy wheel, trolley or not. 

[mrelwood]

 

3 hours ago, Satoki Nagata said:

I am age of 50’s, and have some physical disability (hard to walk more than a couple of blocks or 10 min so I regularly need to use wheelchair or Ninebot S-Segway mini) and very limited to go out for two years. Surprisingly, my joint problem does not affect at all to EUC learning/riding and now after one month, I can ride 10-15 miles easily without rest. Life has changed. I can go out so much more than before.

So nice to hear this! My story is very similiar. These can indeed be life changing devices! All the new places you can go without much effort at all, no longer have to plan ahead if the shortest way has stairs, etc. In a year or two your riding distance may also reach heights you couldn’t have dreamed of, even with a healthy body on a bicycle! I can now ride for 60km with just one short break in the middle! Riding is also a perfect kind of excercise if you can’t stress your joints or muscles very much, so it may increase the quality of your life overall as well.

Protective gear is of course even a lot more important for us with physical issues, since recovering even from an easy crash could take a devastatingly long time. And most of all, keep you from riding!