If you had a 100v MSX, what would your next wheel be between the Nikola 100v, Monster V3 100v, or KS 16X?

[erk1024]

On 7/30/2019 at 1:51 AM, photorph said:

16X vs MSX: Unique, and has the best trolley handle.  Looks the coolest in my opinion.  However it has lowest performance,

Are you sure the 16x has the lowest performance? They just upgraded the motor, and people are having a blast climbing hills with it.

[erk1024]

On 7/30/2019 at 2:49 AM, houseofjob said:

try the Monster with Nikola style pedals

Jason said the V3 has the larger Nikola pedals.

[houseofjob]

17 hours ago, Brian Morris said:

Smaller wheel = worse ride but the Nikola shell should be more comfortable.

Strong disagree here.

Been doing mid-30's mph regularly on swiss cheese NYC streets with my Nik+; the 17" Nikola has been the most comfortable setup I've ever ridden, way more comfortable than the 19" MSX, not only due to the better pedal height vs. shell body support and proportioning, but this CST Cheng Shin stock Nikola tire is vying for the best tire I've ever ridden on.

Before the Nikola, my #1 tire was the stock Kenda V10F tire, followed by #2 MSX stock CYT tire.

This Nikola stock CST is better than those. Even at near max PSI's, it is the closest thing to shock absorption I've ever felt on an EUC in my 18-wheel, 3+ year, multi-brand ownership history. Each bump feels like it's being swallowed by this tire, whereas the V10F Kenda has a little bit of this to a degree, and the MSX stock CYT, while comfy with a rubbery bounce, the ricochet of that dense rubber tire does not absorb the shock and keep you level; it heavy bounces you away in the opposite direction away from the shock.

9 hours ago, erk1024 said:

Jason said the V3 has the larger Nikola pedals.

Yes, I know, but very few people have their V3 Monsters yet, and the reference to this style as a "Nikola" pedal, the wheel it was introduced on, is clearer, less confusion.

Edited August 2, 2019 by houseofjob

[Marty Backe]

4 minutes ago, houseofjob said:

Strong disagree here.

Been doing mid-30's mph regularly on swiss cheese NYC streets with my Nik+; the 17" Nikola has been the most comfortable setup I've ever ridden, way more comfortable than the MSX, not only due to the better shell body support, but this CST Cheng Shin stock Nikola tire is vying for the best tire I've ever ridden on.

Before the Nikola, my #1 tire was the stock Kenda V10F tire, followed by #2 MSX stock CYT tire.

This Nikola stock CST is better than those. Even at near max PSI's, it is the closest thing to shock absorption I've ever felt on an EUC in my 18-wheel, 3+ year, multi-brand ownership history. Each bump feels like it's being swallowed by this tire, whereas the V10F Kenda has a little bit of this to a degree, and the MSX stock CYT, while comfy with a rubbery bounce, the ricochet of that dense rubber tire does not absorb the shock and keep you level; it bounces you away in the opposite direction away from the shock.

Yes, I know, but very few people have their V3 Monsters yet, and the reference to this style as a "Nikola" pedal, the wheel it was introduced on, is clearer, less confusion.

I love how everyone is loving the Nikola . And I also really love the ride of the tire.

[houseofjob]

7 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

I love how everyone is loving the Nikola . And I also really love the ride of the tire.

You were right: this is probably the best wheel I've ever bought, and I don't say that lightly, as I'm not a fan of how much a one-horse race the EUC market has become with Gotway far in the lead, preferring more competition and variety.

The CST tire is like a must IMHO for anyone on crappy city streets like here in NYC. While I'm not going to get to ride this new 16X no-name stock tire any time soon (it looks like), I would strongly recommend to any 16X purchaser to consider swapping to this Nikola stock CST tire, since they are the same size.

Edited August 2, 2019 by houseofjob

[JBoo]

1 hour ago, houseofjob said:

Strong disagree here.

Been doing mid-30's mph regularly on swiss cheese NYC streets with my Nik+; the 17" Nikola has been the most comfortable setup I've ever ridden, way more comfortable than the MSX, not only due to the better shell body support, but this CST Cheng Shin stock Nikola tire is vying for the best tire I've ever ridden on.

Before the Nikola, my #1 tire was the stock Kenda V10F tire, followed by #2 MSX stock CYT tire.

This Nikola stock CST is better than those. Even at near max PSI's, it is the closest thing to shock absorption I've ever felt on an EUC in my 18-wheel, 3+ year, multi-brand ownership history. Each bump feels like it's being swallowed by this tire, whereas the V10F Kenda has a little bit of this to a degree, and the MSX stock CYT, while comfy with a rubbery bounce, the ricochet of that dense rubber tire does not absorb the shock and keep you level; it bounces you away in the opposite direction away from the shock.

Yes, I know, but very few people have their V3 Monsters yet, and the reference to this style as a "Nikola" pedal, the wheel it was introduced on, is clearer, less confusion.

I believe you did quite a bit of commuting on the Z10, how does the Nik+ compare in that regard?

[photorph]

Quote

2 hours ago, houseofjob said:

You were right: this is probably the best wheel I've ever bought, and I don't say that lightly, as I'm not a fan of how much a one-horse race the EUC market has become with Gotway far in the lead, preferring more competition and variety.

The CST tire is like a must IMHO for anyone on crappy city streets like here in NYC. While I'm not going to get to ride this new 16X no-name stock tire any time soon (it looks like), I would strongly recommend to any 16X purchaser to consider swapping to this Nikola stock CST tire, since they are the same size.

 

 well you convinced me to get the Nikola +, went to ewheels to order...and it's sold out.  :/  He does have the v3 monster in stock.  

[Mike Sacristan]

3 hours ago, houseofjob said:

Strong disagree here.

Been doing mid-30's mph regularly on swiss cheese NYC streets with my Nik+; the 17" Nikola has been the most comfortable setup I've ever ridden, way more comfortable than the MSX, not only due to the better shell body support, but this CST Cheng Shin stock Nikola tire is vying for the best tire I've ever ridden on.

Before the Nikola, my #1 tire was the stock Kenda V10F tire, followed by #2 MSX stock CYT tire.

This Nikola stock CST is better than those. Even at near max PSI's, it is the closest thing to shock absorption I've ever felt on an EUC in my 18-wheel, 3+ year, multi-brand ownership history. Each bump feels like it's being swallowed by this tire, whereas the V10F Kenda has a little bit of this to a degree, and the MSX stock CYT, while comfy with a rubbery bounce, the ricochet of that dense rubber tire does not absorb the shock and keep you level; it bounces you away in the opposite direction away from the shock.

Yes, I know, but very few people have their V3 Monsters yet, and the reference to this style as a "Nikola" pedal, the wheel it was introduced on, is clearer, less confusion.

Very valuable information here. Thanks.
My wife seems to have fallen in love with my MSX. She rode it yesterday and said i'm not getting it back. 
She has to relearn riding (acceleration/braking) though after mostly having ridden the Ninebot One E+.

I thought the 16X tyre in the production model was going to have the same tyre as the Nikola?

I agree with the tyre behaviour of the MSX. It would love to launch me into orbit if it could with it's rebound. Hence why I ride relatively low PSI. 

[photorph]

update on the out of stock status for nikola plus.   Jason emailed me in the middle of the night to tell me has a secret stash of 2 nikola pluses.  Somehow how I was awake at 2 am, saw the email...and replied, and got one ordered.

So in addition to my MSX 100v, I'll have a nikola 100v next week.  I may want to sell my msx 100v for a monster instead, i'm worried that the nikola and msx may be too similar.  

Edited August 2, 2019 by photorph

[houseofjob]

 

5 hours ago, photorph said:

 well you convinced me to get the Nikola +, went to ewheels to order...and it's sold out.  :/  He does have the v3 monster in stock.  

3 hours ago, photorph said:

update on the out of stock status for nikola plus.   Jason emailed me in the middle of the night to tell me has a secret stash of 2 nikola pluses.  Somehow how I was awake at 2 am, saw the email...and replied, and got one ordered.

So in addition to my MSX 100v, I'll have a nikola 100v next week.  I may want to sell my msx 100v for a monster instead, i'm worried that the nikola and msx may be too similar.  

🙌🙌Nice and congrats!

Give it some time and see how you feel with the Nik+ vs MSX, but for me, personally, the MSX would be redundant and outclassed in every single way by a Nikola, minus the 1-2 mph faster you might be able to go, but realistically not many go.

4 hours ago, Mike Sacristan said:

Very valuable information here. Thanks.

Sure~

4 hours ago, Mike Sacristan said:

I thought the 16X tyre in the production model was going to have the same tyre as the Nikola?

Nope, it's a branding I've never seen before, "CX" (below), while the Nikola, after a Gotway brief hiatus with the MSX sporting a stock Chao Yang CYT, goes back to Gotway's usual tire partner in CST Cheng Shin.

4 hours ago, Mike Sacristan said:

I agree with the tyre behaviour of the MSX. It would love to launch me into orbit if it could with it's rebound. Hence why I ride relatively low PSI. 

Argh, yeah, that's happened to me a few times riding various other riders' MSXs. Thankfully the whole MSX feels very low-to-the-ground, so you'll land quickly most times.

Edited August 2, 2019 by houseofjob

[Marty Backe]

1 hour ago, houseofjob said:

 

🙌🙌Nice and congrats!

Give it some time and see how you feel with the Nik+ vs MSX, but for me, personally, the MSX would be redundant and outclassed in every single way by a Nikola, minus the 1-2 mph faster you might be able to go, but realistically not many go.

Sure~

Nope, it's a branding I've never seen before, "CX" (below), while the Nikola, after a Gotway brief hiatus with the MSX sporting a stock Chao Yang CYT, goes back to Gotway's usual tire partner in CST Cheng Shin.

 

Argh, yeah, that's happened to me a few times riding various other riders' MSXs. Thankfully the whole MSX feels very low-to-the-ground, so you'll land quickly most times.

I agree except for single-track trail/mountain riding. Nothing beats the height and pedal clearance of the MSX. I'd also argue that the MSX tire is better for super rough (again - trails) riding.

[Darrell Wesh]

38 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

I agree except for single-track trail/mountain riding. Nothing beats the height and pedal clearance of the MSX. I'd also argue that the MSX tire is better for super rough (again - trails) riding.

That’s the only reason I’m thinking of keeping my MSX 84v, for trails with the super pedal clearance 

[Miehlvin]

41 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

I agree except for single-track trail/mountain riding. Nothing beats the height and pedal clearance of the MSX. I'd also argue that the MSX tire is better for super rough (again - trails) riding.

I saw Ian said the same thing in his Nikola review. If you do off road 70% or more he would recommend the MSX. That and the ability people say it has to perform well in cold snowy winter conditions combined with it's great track record is why I am strongly considering buying one.

[houseofjob]

10 hours ago, JBoo said:

I believe you did quite a bit of commuting on the Z10, how does the Nik+ compare in that regard?

And I still do! (but that usage ratio might go down because I basically want to ride the Nik+ every time out now!, I'll see over time I guess)

I have a soft spot in my EUC heart for the Z10, as that wheel & the KS18 tall series are what forced me to improve my riding technique the most of any wheel.

But that also means that the Z is not the easiest wheel to just get on & go without such learning period.

But while the Z10 is a sentimental favorite of mine, the Nik+ is simply the best all-around, universal EUC that I have ever bought, and if I could only keep one stranded desert island wheel to-date, it would be the Nik+, even over the Z10.

In terms of performance, the Z10 cannot go as fast or be pushed as hard as the Nik+, which can be great as a chill ride, but is not versatile. The Nik+ on the other hand is just about everything you would want out of performance in an EUC: ease in torque/acceleration, unbridled speed, degree with which you can be aggressive on lean, etc.

In terms of maneuverability, I personally think it's apples & oranges, as I get a different joy out of now knowing how to sharper turn on the Z, as opposed to the Nik+ is a traditional EUC turn dynamic.

In terms of comfort, no question the Nik+ is suspension-level tire comfort, as opposed to the weighty, thuddy ricochet action of the Z10 tubeless tire, which you have to knee-stabilize (which can be a fun way to occasionally ride, but again, not very versatile).

In terms of amenity features, the trolley feels much sturdier on the Nik+ (albeit with an awkward grab position for my arm height), whereas the Z10 trolley rolled backwards was great, until my v1 Z trolley aluminum sticks started cracking in a manner that one trolley stick pops out of the socket when pulled out (partly my fault for being too aggressive with it in the beginning). But time will only tell how this Nik+ trolley handle will last. Also, with lifting up the wheels, as someone on these forums or elsewhere noted (not remembering right now), the wideness of the Nik+ grab handle while lifting it up, tilts the lower half of the body away from your leg, whereas the Z10 when lifted, will rest against your leg fully, and the edges of the pedal arm can occasion brush your leg.

 

All in all, both are fine for commuting, but the Z10 is a much more chill ride by necessity, whereas the Nik+ can be ridden any way you please.

In general, I don't really class them in the same category though (especially with the 4.1" riding dynamics of the Z being drastically different from all other, thinner tire width wheels), as, to me, the Z is a specialty category wheel, while the Nik+ is an all-around, versatile, one-wheel-to-rule-them-all type wheel.

 

1 hour ago, Marty Backe said:

I agree except for single-track trail/mountain riding. Nothing beats the height and pedal clearance of the MSX. I'd also argue that the MSX tire is better for super rough (again - trails) riding.

47 minutes ago, Darrell Wesh said:

That’s the only reason I’m thinking of keeping my MSX 84v, for trails with the super pedal clearance 

Interesting.

You guys know I'm not an offroad rider, so I would defer to y'all on that.

@Marty Backe I know what you're saying about the super toughness about the MSX CYT tire, which still doesn't make quite sense to me, as the default tread on that is almost non-existent to begin with. Maybe it's the super density and overall high mass-feeling of it(?)

41 minutes ago, hwoccurrence said:

I saw Ian said the same thing in his Nikola review. If you do off road 70% or more he would recommend the MSX. That and the ability people say it has to perform well in cold snowy winter conditions combined with it's great track record is why I am strongly considering buying one.

Interesting.

Ian would know for sure, as all his videos are always in those boonies of UK LOL.

Edited August 2, 2019 by houseofjob

[Darrell Wesh]

Well going slightly uphill I hit the five beeps alarm pretty much 40mph

[Darrell Wesh]

1 hour ago, houseofjob said:

All in all, both are fine for commuting, but the Z10 is a much more chill ride by necessity, whereas the Nik+ can be ridden any way you please.

Hmmm z10 is more aggressive riding IMHO because of the turn dynamics. I feel like a madman on the Z

[Marty Backe]

31 minutes ago, Darrell Wesh said:

Hmmm z10 is more aggressive riding IMHO because of the turn dynamics. I feel like a madman on the Z

And I suspect everyone kind of looks like a madman when turning/carving on the Z 

[Marty Backe]

1 hour ago, houseofjob said:

<snip>

@Marty Backe I know what you're saying about the super toughness about the MSX CYT tire, which still doesn't make quite sense to me, as the default tread on that is almost non-existent to begin with. Maybe it's the super density and overall high mass-feeling of it(?)

<snip>

I'm not sure about the tread, but the extra large size and diameter of the MSX tire makes is ideal for rolling over large rocks and big/deep grooves.

Since I don't ride in the rain or mud, the tread doesn't play a big part in my riding (other than comfort).

[houseofjob]

2 hours ago, Darrell Wesh said:

Hmmm z10 is more aggressive riding IMHO because of the turn dynamics. I feel like a madman on the Z

Ah, but I mean aggressive transmitting force on the pedals.

Yes, the amount you have to turn, arm swing, all of that is much more necessarily active, than on the Nikola where you can get away with being stiff as a board, if you want to.

2 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

I'm not sure about the tread, but the extra large size and diameter of the MSX tire makes is ideal for rolling over large rocks and big/deep grooves.

Since I don't ride in the rain or mud, the tread doesn't play a big part in my riding (other than comfort).

Ah I see (grrrr... out of rep for today)

So then, wouldn't the Monster at 22" be the ultimate? 

[Mike Sacristan]

54 minutes ago, houseofjob said:

2 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

I'm not sure about the tread, but the extra large size and diameter of the MSX tire makes is ideal for rolling over large rocks and big/deep grooves.

Since I don't ride in the rain or mud, the tread doesn't play a big part in my riding (other than comfort).

Ah I see (grrrr... out of rep for today)

So then, wouldn't the Monster at 22" be the ultimate? 

Rolling over roots as well. Every single time I get lost in the forests here in Sweden I end up on some funky trail with rocks and roots. Some of the roots are insane. I need medium pedal stiffness at the least because if the pedals yield I will get launched forward and if I hit too many roots in sequence the pedals will dip. As long as I have low enough PSI the tyre will absorb and most of all deform around obstacles enough for me to keep momentum or generate momentum if I have none.

I can imagine the Monster doing quite well and even better than the MSX as long as it is easy enough to get going from 0kmh and especially on an incline. However I can only see my MSX problem getting worse with the size/weight of a Monster.

My friend did very well on his Nikola though and could even jump it a bit on some of the tougher stuff. I tried jumping too... and just jumped right off my MSX.

 

[Marty Backe]

1 hour ago, houseofjob said:

Ah, but I mean aggressive transmitting force on the pedals.

Yes, the amount you have to turn, arm swing, all of that is much more necessarily active, than on the Nikola where you can get away with being stiff as a board, if you want to.

Ah I see (grrrr... out of rep for today)

So then, wouldn't the Monster at 22" be the ultimate? 

The Monster actually is the ultimate trail rider unless there's a lot of hill climbing. Then it's not so fun due to the relative lack of torque.

[Marty Backe]

4 minutes ago, Mike Sacristan said:

Rolling over roots as well. Every single time I get lost in the forests here in Sweden I end up on some funky trail with rocks and roots. Some of the roots are insane. I need medium pedal stiffness at the least because if the pedals yield I will get launched forward and if I hit too many roots in sequence the pedals will dip. As long as I have low enough PSI the tyre will absorb and most of all deform around obstacles enough for me to keep momentum or generate momentum if I have none.

I can imagine the Monster doing quite well and even better than the MSX as long as it is easy enough to get going from 0kmh and especially on an incline. However I can only see my MSX problem getting worse with the size/weight of a Monster.

My friend did very well on his Nikola though and could even jump it a bit on some of the tougher stuff. I tried jumping too... and just jumped right off my MSX.

Today I tried soft mode on the Nikola while doing some trail riding in the mountains. Why? Because of the @houseofjob  sitting on my shoulder nagging me about how great soft is. Nope. Had to switch back to hard. Soft is horrible when you are navigating boulders or climbing over roots, rocks, etc. Just as you say - if the wheel can't react instantly you're going to be sitting on the ground watching your wheel proceed without you 

I continue to experiment with soft on the flat and level - breaking is particularly fun in soft mode.

[houseofjob]

5 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

Today I tried soft mode on the Nikola while doing some trail riding in the mountains. Why? Because of the @houseofjob  sitting on my shoulder nagging me about how great soft is. Nope. Had to switch back to hard. Soft is horrible when you are navigating boulders or climbing over roots, rocks, etc. Just as you say - if the wheel can't react instantly you're going to be sitting on the ground watching your wheel proceed without you 

I continue to experiment with soft on the flat and level - breaking is particularly fun in soft mode.

Right. Again, I'm not a hill climber haha.

If I were, I wouldn't try to straightline go up the hill incline, I would try to break it up in a zig-zag pattern, dividing it up into perpendiculars to the incline, just as we do for walking up a mountain in skiing for more leverage, less slip (that is, if you have the real estate), but I'll leave the hill expertise to you guys.

But I think the beauty of Gotway EUCs are, you can just change to hard mode for hills, then change back for flats. I at lest know that for my rides, which are only flats, no significant hills, it's only Gotway soft mode for this guy 

[Darrell Wesh]

43 minutes ago, houseofjob said:

Right. Again, I'm not a hill climber haha.

If I were, I wouldn't try to straightline go up the hill incline, I would try to break it up in a zig-zag pattern, dividing it up into perpendiculars to the incline, just as we do for walking up a mountain in skiing for more leverage, less slip (that is, if you have the real estate), but I'll leave the hill expertise to you guys.

But I think the beauty of Gotway EUCs are, you can just change to hard mode for hills, then change back for flats. I at lest know that for my rides, which are only flats, no significant hills, it's only Gotway soft mode for this guy 

I dunno if it is normal to be like this but I couldn’t go very fast in gotway soft mode vs hard mode. I did enjoy the dynamics more and would prefer it to hard mode on the Nikola, but it was much harder to speed on soft mode. I hit my five beep 40mph on hard mode, while soft mode efforts had me staring at 35mph. 

[houseofjob]

22 minutes ago, Darrell Wesh said:

I dunno if it is normal to be like this but I couldn’t go very fast in gotway soft mode vs hard mode. I did enjoy the dynamics more and would prefer it to hard mode on the Nikola, but it was much harder to speed on soft mode. I hit my five beep 40mph on hard mode, while soft mode efforts had me staring at 35mph. 

Dammit, I have to come down to VA sometime and we need to compare notes (or I finally have to make this video I've been saying I'm gonna make for going on a year now *SMH)