Marty Backe Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 43 minutes ago, Klin said: Yes, it might not have the fastest speed or the farthest range but it is indeed still my favorite wheel out of all the wheels out right now, though I have yet to ride the KS-18L/XL. I ride with a small group of friends almost daily. They ride the V10F, MSuperX, and some other wheels. I can safely say after swapping wheels and test riding most of them, I also find myself going back to my Z10 every time. I'd be down to ride up Mt. Wilson again. I came back down extremely dusty on our last ride though. I still haven't cleaned those shoes yet LOL. Also, the ride down on the heavy MSuperV3 murdered my knees. I'm also still baby-ing my Z10, it's pretty much still in pristine condition even though I probably have over 150 miles on it by now. I've been avoiding off-road paths because I have this subconscious desire to keep the wheel clean and in mint condition. It's just too beautiful. The Z10 seems to take abuse fairly wheel. I've done a lot of off-roading (including that Mt Wilson ride). Even with all the scratches, it still looks great. So some day, take it off-road and get it dirty It's a really fun trail wheel too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanghamP Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 Personally I'd buy the Z10 while getting rid of all the other wheels, as the Z10 feels like the future. Certainly it looks like Ninebot skipped a few generations and went straight to 2035. However, you can also buy a battery less MSuper X and take the batteries from your MSuper. Ask @Jason McNeil about doing this; I'm still considering doing this and the only reason I haven't is that the Z10 is clearly the leading EUC. If you want the EUC that's clearly the most advanced, then hands down the Z10 is it. I say in 1-2 years all manufacturers will have a wheel that looks and has the features of the Z10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 4 minutes ago, LanghamP said: However, you can also buy a battery less MSuper X and take the batteries from your MSuper. Ask @Jason McNeil about doing this; I'm still considering doing this and the only reason I haven't is that the Z10 is clearly the leading EUC. If you want the EUC that's clearly the most advanced, then hands down the Z10 is it. I say in 1-2 years all manufacturers will have a wheel that looks and has the features of the Z10. It would be interesting for me how you come to this conclusion. From the outside build quality the Z10 is absolutely high quality...no question about it. Whats inside is a totally other thing. Thats a technic from about 3—4 years ago. Inefficient 50Volt system, Batteries daisy chained instead of real paralleled. This daisy chaining is even done wrong, so that only one pack gets recuperated instead of both. Hardware/board/mosfets are totally underdeveloped for the high amperage needed on that low voltage....BMS firmware desaster on all early Z6... Again: Outside build quality is Top notch....but other than that? i would be interested to hear why this is „leading EUC“.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanghamP Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 14 minutes ago, US69 said: It would be interesting for me how you come to this conclusion. From the outside build quality the Z10 is absolutely high quality...no question about it. Whats inside is a totally other thing. Thats a technic from about 3—4 years ago. Inefficient 50Volt system, Batteries daisy chained instead of real paralleled. This daisy chaining is even done wrong, so that only one pack gets recuperated instead of both. Hardware/board/mosfets are totally underdeveloped for the high amperage needed on that low voltage....BMS firmware desaster on all early Z6... Again: Outside build quality is Top notch....but other than that? i would be interested to hear why this is „leading EUC“.... 1. Looks. 2. Looks. 3. Tubeless tire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 40 minutes ago, LanghamP said: 1. Looks. 2. Looks. 3. Tubeless tire. Aaaaah, ok! Sorry, then, missed these overwhelming facts :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ch.Eng.62 Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 1 hour ago, US69 said: Whats inside is a totally other thing. Thats a technic from about 3—4 years ago. Inefficient 50Volt system, Batteries daisy chained instead of real paralleled. This daisy chaining is even done wrong, so that only one pack gets recuperated instead of both. Hardware/board/mosfets are totally underdeveloped for the high amperage needed on that low voltage....BMS firmware desaster on all early Z6... And AFAIK zero failures. I don't think that it's due to underdevelopment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanghamP Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 53 minutes ago, US69 said: Aaaaah, ok! Sorry, then, missed these overwhelming facts :-) Actually you are very correct. Technologically, what do you think is the most advanced wheel out there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheelr Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 2 hours ago, US69 said: Whats inside is a totally other thing. Thats a technic from about 3—4 years ago. Inefficient 50Volt system, Batteries daisy chained instead of real paralleled. This daisy chaining is even done wrong, so that only one pack gets recuperated instead of both. Aren't these features? Aren't lower voltage systems safer? And isn't there an issue where over charging from regenerative energy can lead to a cutout? I think Ninebot opted to avoid these known issues by designing a more reliable wheel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriull Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 3 hours ago, wheelr said: Aren't these features? Aren't lower voltage systems safer? If one touches them... But up to 120V DC is considered "safe" for adults. Below 60V DC also no protection against accidential touch is necessary as these voltages are considerered also safe for kids and animals. In "humid enviroments" voltages are limited to 60V and touch protection is necessary. (For ?EU/DE/AT? regions) 3 hours ago, wheelr said: And isn't there an issue where over charging from regenerative energy can lead to a cutout? Yes. Every EUC has this "issue". Don't which EUCs react with a cut out (BMS shutoff due to overvoltage) or just stop/lessen braking by firmware... 3 hours ago, wheelr said: I think Ninebot opted to avoid these known issues by designing a more reliable wheel. As it seems for the Z10 they opted to stop/lessen braking quite early going downhill... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klin Posted November 5, 2018 Author Share Posted November 5, 2018 On 11/4/2018 at 9:25 AM, LanghamP said: Personally I'd buy the Z10 while getting rid of all the other wheels, as the Z10 feels like the future. Certainly it looks like Ninebot skipped a few generations and went straight to 2035. However, you can also buy a battery less MSuper X and take the batteries from your MSuper. Ask @Jason McNeil about doing this; I'm still considering doing this and the only reason I haven't is that the Z10 is clearly the leading EUC. If you want the EUC that's clearly the most advanced, then hands down the Z10 is it. I say in 1-2 years all manufacturers will have a wheel that looks and has the features of the Z10. Yeah I mentioned in a previous comment that I sold the wheel to a close friend who did exactly this after I told him Jason & Marty recommended it. I sold him the wheel at a dangerously low price so overall he really just paid for the batteries. He picked up the MSuperX from Jason's distribution center here in Los Angeles and I helped him swap the batteries in about 30 minutes. Even after switching back and forth between the wheels I'd have to say that even though the Z10 has less range and motor power, I would still take it over all the other wheels in a heartbeat. The Tesla is a second favorite for me. We also tend to have "drag races" sometimes between friends while riding and I got to say the Z10 always accelerates to top speed the fastest. The MSuperX has the power/range but the wheel feels alot more lethargic due to it's size. The V10F motor feels like it has alot of power and the ride feeling is great and very comfortable, I can glide effortlessly on this wheel but it always ends up last during our "races", with the alarms sounding on full blast with that annoying Inmotion tiltback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 On 11/4/2018 at 9:45 PM, wheelr said: And isn't there an issue where over charging from regenerative energy can lead to a cutout? I think Ninebot opted to avoid these known issues by designing a more reliable wheel. Aah, Ok, thats why they choose only to charge one battery on regenerative braking. So that only this one recharged battery then leads to a cutout ;-) The fault they have made on regerenative charging also leads to differing battery packs. Nope, that can not be called "more reliable"... On 11/4/2018 at 8:29 PM, LanghamP said: Actually you are very correct. Technologically, what do you think is the most advanced wheel out there? Difficult Question. Just from build Quality alone i would say 9b, IM are a in front of KS, as IM and 9b are mass Producers and have obviously more Quality Control's and processes in place. From board Quality/reliability i would say it is KS and !new! GW boards, which have been proven nearly indestructable! IM is as same reliable but in my view IM is not there in the Performance class, they still have to prove that…and the Z10 is to new to say anything About reliability. In the end they are "technologically wise" all on the same Level! None of the Producers has done anything that would really be a step forward in safety. Still no redundancy at all... My 2 Cents... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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