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ACCIDENTs, CRASHs, Cutouts and Overleans.


The Wizard
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People have talked about mounting a small wheel up front "just in case," but again I don't know how helpful that would be.  These devices' sole purpose is to try to operate as level as they can and as a consequence balance whatever it is carrying.  They may tilt on occasion slightly depending on pedal responsiveness settings, warning tiltbacks, or brake assist, but once that system fails it's basically like balancing on a pinhead.  While in motion.  :blink:

Maybe if a secondary pedal balancing system kicked in when the main balancing system failed that could help.  It would have to disengage the linkage between pedal support and axle,  but if it could upright the pedals as the case tilts forwards theoretically it might help?  The complication and effort to do so as well as adding more potential points of failure may not be worth the extra cost.

Edited by Hunka Hunka Burning Love
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5 hours ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said:

if it could upright the pedals as the case tilts forwards theoretically it might help?

I don't think so. When the wheel gets over-leaned or cuts out, it's not the pedals tilting that is the main issue, but the wheel not being able to reach your centre of gravity.

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4 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

I don't think so. When the wheel gets over-leaned or cuts out, it's not the pedals tilting that is the main issue, but the wheel not being able to reach your centre of gravity.

Exactly... Even if there was some method to keep the wheel level, as it has lost power and is decelerating the fact that the riders CoG (and downward force) is forward of the wheel it will actually push backward - effectively slowing the wheel more, further decreasing the distance between the face and the pavement.

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I love the drive :w00t2: and can-do attitude!  It's an interesting thought puzzle.  Possibilities versus practicality.  

2 hours ago, mrelwood said:

I don't think so. When the wheel gets over-leaned or cuts out, it's not the pedals tilting that is the main issue, but the wheel not being able to reach your centre of gravity.

Yet if your feet have something that offers resistance you can often recover.  Picture a skateboarder who pops a wheelie and rides for a few feet on the back wheels.  When they land the board tilts forwards to stop at the level point.  With an EUC, the pedals are level until the works tips forwards.  If the pedal levelling system can detect a failure of the main system fast enough the shell can continue tipping forwards while the pedals tip back to counter keeping them level allowing the feet some resistance to counter the forward momentum.  With the Wizard's skids or faceplant wheels the whole thing could slide to a stop theoretically.  Maybe.  Heck if I know.  Who's got a computer simulation system???  :lol:

Edited by Hunka Hunka Burning Love
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I believe the Wizard is not trying to prevent a fall. The "face plant" possibility riding a euc is unlike falling from a bike, roller blades, scooter, electric skateboard .. Falling for any reason always has possible disastrous consequences, the sudden face first fall however has its own brand of terror. It is likely "face plants" will be used in any future attack on the safety of eucs. The wizard has had some serious falls, but chooses to come up with improvements. Lesser people will use serious falls to try and ban eucs even if their falls were the results of improper use. The solution to cut-offs or over leans can be solved by the control boards. The wheel instead of stopping would free roll when cutoff/over-lean events happen. This wouldn't stop someone from falling, but would be more like brakes failing. This is not likely to happen as it would require re-engineering control board functionality and creating a new assembly-parts paradigm. Unless Honda/Yamaha get interested and come out with a wide wheel self standing euc with sophisticated safety protocols, euc will remain a small niche market used by risk takers. There is a "ONEWHEEL guru who has added safety front wheels to his ONEWHEEL  I personally will never add any rods/wheels/? to my euc. I realize every time I ride it bad things could happen. I ride and dress accordingly. Best of success wishes to those who make mods that adds to their euc's safety.

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I appreciate the difference, but a faceplant. being the result of power failure, means a loss of momentum and without momentum you will faceplant - regardless of how many prongs, skids or wheels you have added.

This is physics people... Not something you can circumvent!

If you really want to prevent a faceplant, there are only two options;

  1. Prevent the loss of momentum caused by power failure (perhaps with a secondary system - like the IPS S5?)
     
  2. Ride backward - which will at least save your face.
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Re-reading the Whiz's second post I think the key is placing the faceplant wheels attached to the pedal pins is the key.  With the supports angled up slightly when the wheel fails it would be like dropping down from a pop-a-wheelie onto two front wheels as long as the downward angle isn't too extreme.  Hmmm very interesting... people still would likely keep moving forwards as the wheel slows down due to the ride lean so I don't know if that would work.  Unless with the slight tilt they could recover.... somehow I think it might be doubtful as mrelwood mentioned as the CoG is forwards... hard to say...

Edited by Hunka Hunka Burning Love
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I would like to think you could build in a second controller board that could be hot swapped in upon failure. The hard part would be detecting all types of failures. It is my VERY limited understanding that the common failure is a MOSFET goes out. It should be possible to build in a circuit that would monitor this and switch in the second control board. In addition this could be used to control thermal issues while riding up a mountain for instance; One board is getting hot so switch to the other for example. Lastly there is the issue of a low battery not being able to provide the juice needed for a surge of power requested by the rider. The manufacturers could incorporate super capacitors in this situation that would be able to give the power needed to keep the rider upright and issue a warning or tilt back. 

 

I would like to see both of these or similar concepts be included in future EUC. I decided to go with a V10F as my first unicycle mainly because of its perceived safety.  For all the faults that have been found with it I haven't heard of one cut off or "face plant" (maybe I just missed it) and this makes me think I made the right decision. 

Thoughts...

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:popcorn:  I don't mind admitting when I'm wrong.  Post 'em up!  Take us down that yellow brick road...

https://postimages.org/

You can upload a bunch at a time, choose direct links, copy, paste here, manually enter a return after each link, wait for forum to process image, repeat ...

Edited by Hunka Hunka Burning Love
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:blink1:  Uh what?  I just asked if you could upload the prototype photos so we can see them.  Where are you getting this idea that I don't believe it is possible?

The forum has a limited upload capability for users so I gave the image hosting link.  I then asked to take a look at your prototype photos.  Hold on here, am I being punk'd?  Hello?  There's no place like Edmonton, there's no place like Edmonton...

I don't confuse easily, but when I do it's a doozie, oh my!  :confused1:

Edited by Hunka Hunka Burning Love
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6 hours ago, Jerome said:

The wheel instead of stopping would free roll when cutoff/over-lean events happen.

Isn’t that what wheels already do at cut-off, free-roll? Unless the wheel is blocked by a blown Mosfet that is.

4 hours ago, scap said:

keep the rider upright and issue a warning or tilt back. 

Regarding over-speed and low battery, others than Gotway already does this, but some riders feel that it limits their freedom and liberty. So they ride a Gotway and remove the tilt-back.

Blowing Mosfets have been fought with a double amount of larger and a lot more powerful Mosfet types. I haven’t heard of them blowing yet.

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3 hours ago, The Wizard said:

already claim I have made something that WORKS

 

Do you mean that it has prevented a faceplant? You have been given the means and instructions to upload photos for us to discuss, since we are interested in what you have done and how it works. Come on, let’s continue inventing!

My theoretical thinking is that an actual power-cut-off-faceplant wouldn’t benefit greatly from these additional wheels unless they are at the center of gravity. Even then, if the cut-off happens during acceleration, when the rider tries to jump there is no platform to jump from. The force of jumping will only push the wheel away, as if there was nothing there.

I’m not theorizing this to turn anyone down, just to take part in the discussion and hopefully guide it towards a solution that would actually work.

I think manufacturers have already done a pretty good job of bettering the mechanics and electronics to prevent just this. Wizard, did you use your Ninebot or other wheels during your cut-offs? Were there overleans involved, or all plain technical malfunctions?

Edited by mrelwood
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