meepmeepmayer

The voltage explanation for the 18(X)L behavior makes no sense. Sure, the voltage drops, that's how batteries work. You can simply draw more current to get the same power. It's not like the wheel has much choice how much power to use. Since a 6p (or 4p) battery can deliver much more current than regular riding needs, no problem! So if the KS gets "weaker" below 50%, that's on the firmware and on purpose. Slower or softer response (like a softer riding mode) to flatten current spikes and power draw. Wheels do not just get weaker on their own, do they? Never heard anything like that. Never noticed it on my ACM which is as rock hard just before the low battery tiltback throws me off as it is at full battery. And that just does not make sense.

Not my video. Some guy gets a Z10.

Is that the Boston skyline? Cool!

Good point! The ball form factor might no be the smartest in a crash...

I understand you. The 100V 1845Wh is tempting with not so much less capacity than the 2100Wh 84V, and the sweet speed (and better oomph??). We need more info on the bigger 84V Nikolas! Nikolae? Buying: Ali, or these Polish guys. I think regular EU prices will be hair-raising. Wouldn't mind a local dealer otherwise.

Only one way to find out I'd be less worried about an overlean, as the 18XL still goes full speed at 3.3V. But the 0% battery tiltback might throw you off.

There's no speed limit (ignoring the 3rd alarm which is much higher in comparison). Just beeps, more beeps, and even more beeps at 15%, 10%, 5% (voltages and percentages get really mushy there so it's just beeps and more beeps below 15%). If you ignore the battery beeps, you get a "get off" tiltback at 0% (which has nothing to do with the speed tiltback that can be disabled). It's mild, but maybe when going fast, it's not so mild. I have no intention to find out The 3rd alarm ("80% alarm") linearly reduces the speed at which the 5 beeps appear while going from 100% to 10%. You'll get battery beeps before you ever hit the 3rd alarm at low battery, because it is crazy high even then, but I guess in theory it's the same speed limit below 10% as it is at 10%. I'm sure you'll get 0% battery tiltback before you hit the 3rd alarm at low battery. E.g. the 84V MSX has the 3rd alarm at 45kph at 10%. Speed beeps have slowed you to walking speed long before. If it beeps, slow down. Doesn't matter what beep it is in the end How does it work? The wheel gets softer with lower battery? Didn't know that.

No idea where to buy from (depends on the price if I buy at all). 100V is sooo tempting (especially with the decent 18XX Wh size), but we lack info on the newer all-black 84V Nikolas (new board from the 100V used? new motor, if it exists, of the 100V used?). Also, can't argue with 2100Wh. At least I can't

Yep, that's a more realistic conclusion. I can support that By the way, Gotways start battery beeping at "15%" which is 3.42V per cell. Make of this information what you will. But that's where the annoying beeps start. @stephen Good test, thanks! According to this, it's 30% for the L and 25% for the XL. The voltage fluctuates a lot during riding so it might appear "earlier" in real life. You're right about the rest, but apparently batteries are much harder to actually ruin than people say. So just ride and enjoy

I still want to know if there is a new motor in newer Nikolas (probably not) and the other hardware info (100V board used on the 84V?). I'd like an @EcoDrift disassembly of the 2100Wh ideally. And it feels dumb to not wait for the 16X impressions. And there's the price. On the other hand, 2100Wh (you're so right about that!)... what's there to think about

Rockwheel goes down to 2.9V on the GT16, I believe. 2.6V is a typical number where cells apparently get permanent damage/refuse to be charged up again. Nothing to know because it's not true. The voltage drop after 3.3V going to 3V is quite big, so you don't have too much actual capacity difference (as opposed to voltage difference) between the two. Marty's real world tests seem to show more like a ~10% difference between his MSX and 18XL. And @eddiemoycapacity math is just nonsense, that's not how it works. The cells have the exact same capacity, whether you use it or stop early. You could exchange batteries between the wheels and be none the wiser. Only difference is the firmware. I guess I should call all Kingsongs unsafe and irresponsible because they let you empty the battery (too) far, allowing for an easy overlean at low battery, and maybe even damage to the cells and premature aging. That's vastly exaggerated, but just to counter the obvious Gotway hating

Wow, Marty. Fantastic video, fantastic ride! And you seem to be raving over the Nikola like no other wheel. Looks like this one is the wheel for me, too. That offroad stuff in the second half is exactly the kind of thing I like to do. Some rough path into the unknown, and you're out of breath from all the pushing and wondering how bad it is going to get

Sagen wir mal so, ich bin vorsichtig optimistisch Mal schauen wann es die 2100Wh version gibt, wie die endgültige Modellpolitik aussieht (die bringen ja Updates für das Ding raus bevor die ersten überhaupt ihr wheel bekommen!), und wieviel das mich dann am Ende kostet. Wird wohl so bald kein besseres wheel für meine Interessen rauskommen (16 inch + große Batterie), aber villeicht schau ich auch mal wie der 16X so aussieht und ich kauf eher Ende des Jahres was. Mal gucken. Danke jedenfalls! Und viel Spass (wenn du in die Dolomiten kommst). Hab ich mir in letzter Zeit auch gedacht! Wenn man nur so im Tshirt rumfährt, denkt man da eher dran. Müssen ja nicht massiv sein, sondern leicht anzulegende gform elastische oder so. Fall du irgendwo ein schönes Modell siehst...

@Gunthor Danke!! Bis zum 16. werd ich aber kein neues wheel haben, also dieses Jahr wirds bei mir nix. Nächstes Jahr vielleicht. Dann darfst du mich gerne wieder dran erinnern

Ground variations, small muscle or steering movements, wind, etc. constantly induce sideways motions that can start a wobble. Usually, the rider dampens the oscillations away quickly and automatically, that's just a normal part of riding. But if the leg muscles are tense (new rider, tired, bad stance on the pedals, unusual thing happening like a wind gust, etc.), that attempt to dampen will be out of sync (your body reacting too late, essentially) and actually amplify the wobbling instead of dampening it (or at least you'll not be able to reduce the wobbling and it will increase by itself). That's the working theory how you get speed wobbles. Stand as relaxed as possible (that comes with experience, 3 hours is nothing - and grabbing the wheel may be counterproductive!) and if you get wobbles, do something that starts a strong and new leg muscle tension like braking (or even accelerating, but braking tends to be safer for obvious reasons) or going into a curve. Your tense leg muscles' delayed reactions is what causes the wobble, so changing the muscle tension is how you can get out of this rut. [TLDR: just brake.] Essentially, everyone has speed wobbles. The question is just: at what speed do they appear? The faster the tire spins, the faster a sideways wobble will grow, so every rider will have a speed at which the wobbling is so violent that he can't balance it. The more relaxed the rider is and the more experience he has, the higher that speed is, and if it's beyond the wheel's top speed, problem solved You can try this for yourself by riding slowly and starting to squat down (tenses your legs). You'll see a wobble appear. That's also why some people get wobbles when braking downhills, the unusual stance tenses the leg muscles too much.

I don't believe so. The 16X seems to be designed as a performance/offroad 16 incher (well 17 incher) parallel to the 16S, which is still in production and has recently gotten a refresh (unfortunately without a spec bump, which for a 35kph wheel in today's market would have been nice). Same as the Nikola, the Tesla is still in production and got an update recently. So both companies seem to be going parallel paths with one smaller, lighter, more manageable 16 incher for commuting etc. and a bigger 16 incher where they go all-in. You're right though, the 16S size could probably fit a 1600Wh battery (like the ACM) if they wanted to do it (and maybe did some small modifications). The 16X and Nikola are both bigger and heavier than they needed to be judging from the specs alone.

I think you just underestimate how big and bulky the 16X is. It's going to be as big as the Nikola, and maybe even wider at the top.

What were the problems? Incline numbers are mostly meaningless. EUCs don't have fixed inclines they can or cannot do, each model just has a certain power ceiling. Essentially, if the shell doesn't scratch the incline due to simple geometry, a EUC can ride it up if the rider is only light enough and the tire doesn't lose traction. Conversely, a heavy rider might overstress (and overheat) a EUC on a relatively flat incline. These numbers are no meaningful stats and I would just ignore them. The manufacturers seem to determine them by doing random experiments/test rides and by guessing what incline sounds good and what incline seems to much. But these are not at all hard numbers like a speed limit or whatever.

Looks like I have to buy a Nikola How would you compare the two for mountain riding? Especially any notable torque differences? Overheating? Can't wait for an overheat hill video. Btw. that photo is glorious!

Yep, it's ugly. That mudguard is extra bad. And the top is asymmetric even seen from the front or back, why the f did that need to be?! But I guess it is a nice offroad wheel design. Looks sturdy and not easily damaged. The handle is nicely protected by these otherwise useless, chunky protrusions on top.

Da haste aber echt Pech gehabt! Hätte auch harmlos ausgehen können.

Meine Fresse, wie hat sich das ergeben?! Hoffentlich heilt das bald und gut.

I don't know. Going by how reliable specs are in general, I'd only trust numbers where someone just weighed their wheel.

1st alarm 30kph (can be disabled) 2 beeps 2nd alarm 35kph (can be disabled) 3 beeps 3rd alarm ("80% alarm", speed depends on battery percentage, cannot be disabled) 5 beeps You can see by lifting your wheel and have it spin up.