People in cars ignoring EUC riders right of way

[Dingfelder]

3 hours ago, Keith said:

That reminds me of when we first moved into our current house 28 years ago. Several of our friends were installing a new kitchen for us whilst we went on Honeymoon. When we got back it was to find the street in a horrendous mess and our friends keen to tell the tale. Turns out they had heard an almighty crash and rushed out into the street in time to see our very elderly neighbour opposite come crashing through his closed  garage door in reverse and straight through his closed front gates, by the time the car had crossed the road still accelerating and smashed through our next door neighbours gates it had turned enough that it proceeded to go through the front gardens smashing through the garden walls between each house, it only stopped when it hit a wall thick enough to lift the rear wheels off of the ground. One of my friends had to rush over and kill the ignition. The crash they had originally heard was him hitting his rear garage wall, he then somehow got the car into reverse. After the incident he swore the car had done all this itself and kept driving, but my 85 year old next door neighbour sold his car the following week saying he realised now he was too old to drive.

After describing the incident one of my friends asked: "Are you going to have a housewarming party?"

Me: "Yes - Why do ask?"

Him: "you aren't going invite your neighbour across the road are you".

"why on earth not?"

"Well  . . . . . . . . . You don't want any gatecrashers at your party do you!"

 

 

I've read and heard a lot of stories like this, and seen one or two in real life.  It's pretty disturbing how many people let themselves drive when they're menaces.  Also pretty disturbing about how so many older people take no responsibility for their actions behind the wheel and sometimes don't even seem to care when there are catastrophic results.

[litewave]

2 hours ago, WARPed1701D said:

I think an HD action cam is a great idea. Preferably a 360 degree one but any is better than none. I see terrible behavior from drivers, cyclists, and pedestrians everyday and would love to be able to report the serious infractions. Plus if I get hit there is a chance of something getting caught on camera that will allow prosecution and the removal of a dangerous person from the road for a while.  Getting hit by cars is a big deal where I live. Hit and run is also popular with drunk, drugged, and geriatric drivers. One recent incident had the elderly driver continuing 5 blocks with the lifeless body of the victim stuck in the windshield. Finally the body fell off at a corner and the elderly gentleman was able to continue his journey without the hitchhiker.

An action cam should be a purchase that comes after safety and high vis gear but after that I think it is a great purchase. I for one want every opportunity to catch any bastard that hits me and buggers off or acts on a manner causing me to crash.

 

I spent too much time researching VR action cams not long ago, and concluded that the tech has quite a ways to go before it can meet expectations, and is thus a poor value proposition. At best, they are novelty items that are costly and even more susceptible to the challenges of making videos on an EUC. If you are a practised videographer with a selfie stick as some are on this site, you probably can get the shot you are after. But there are inherent limits in the technology that mitigate most practical benefit, such as post-processing (some solutions require more than others), low effective resolution (even at 4k there is far too much information in the FOV, thus reducing the effective res to 160-320p - good luck getting plate numbers with that at 30fps max), the inescapable fish-eye lens distortion, and more importantly, the challenges of actually viewing/enjoying the finished result without VR headgear. Unless the set/scenery is carefully staged in an immersive environment saturated with exciting details at very close range, the content tends to be boring and a little weird, like recording from a moving fishbowl. Moreover, why would I want to spin the camera view around and look at the EUC driver's butt, or other pedestrian details in a typical EUC ride scenario?

EDIT: In the situations you describe (hit by cars), I suspect that the camera and/or video would not survive, or the micro-SD card could pop out and go missing, or the police could care less. 

[LanghamP]

14 minutes ago, litewave said:

 

I spent too much time researching VR action cams not long ago, and concluded that the tech has quite a ways to go before it can meet expectations, and is thus a poor value proposition. At best, they are novelty items that are costly and even more susceptible to the challenges of making videos on an EUC. If you are a practised videographer with a selfie stick as some are on this site, you probably can get the shot you are after. But there are inherent limits in the technology that mitigate most practical benefit, such as post-processing (some solutions require more than others), low effective resolution (even at 4k there is far too much information in the FOV, thus reducing the effective res to 160-320p - good luck getting plate numbers with that at 30fps max), the inescapable fish-eye lens distortion, and more importantly, the challenges of actually viewing/enjoying the finished result without VR headgear. Unless the set/scenery is carefully staged in an immersive environment saturated with exciting details at very close range, the content tends to be boring and a little weird, like recording from a moving fishbowl. Moreover, why would I want to spin the camera view around and look at the EUC driver's butt, or other pedestrian details in a typical EUC ride scenario?

I bought this 

FITFORT Action Camera 4K WiFi Ultra HD Waterproof Sport Camera 2 Inch LCD Screen 12MP 170 Degree Wide Angle 2 Rechargeable 1050mAh Batteries Free Travel Bag Include 19 Accessories Kits https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06XFM62GB/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_0IWKzbJYW5DEG

With the hope of recording 60fps.

[litewave]

4 minutes ago, LanghamP said:

I bought this 

FITFORT Action Camera 4K WiFi Ultra HD Waterproof Sport Camera 2 Inch LCD Screen 12MP 170 Degree Wide Angle 2 Rechargeable 1050mAh Batteries Free Travel Bag Include 19 Accessories Kits https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06XFM62GB/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_0IWKzbJYW5DEG

With the hope of recording 60fps.

I hope it works out for you and that you post a review with some samples. For casual videos and moving selfies, it might be useful. Still, when riding with a camera, I found that it became the focus of my experience, not the actual ride or moment. I felt like a distracted EUC rider and more at risk of accident as a result.

[LanghamP]

4 minutes ago, litewave said:

I hope it works out for you and that you post a review with some samples. For casual videos and moving selfies, it might be useful. Still, when riding with a camera, I found that it became the focus of my experience, not the actual ride or moment. I felt like a distracted EUC rider and more at risk of accident as a result.

I'm using it as a dashcam not as some selfie stickies.

[Stan Onymous]

I read it comes with loads of attachments, so you dont have to use a s****e stick. You can use it on your wrist like Dick Tracy or on your helmet for those Alien 2 types of shots. Or you could use it on your dashboard, and I bet this thing could be attached to the family dog or a fishing pole. 

Thanks for the tip. 

[WARPed1701D]

2 hours ago, litewave said:

EDIT: In the situations you describe (hit by cars), I suspect that the camera and/or video would not survive, or the micro-SD card could pop out and go missing, or the police could care less. 

You specify lots of things that could happen to prevent the capture of evidence but give no weight to the possibility that it could grab the piece of evidence needed. Make, model, color, maybe the sex of the driver or some detail of them that could narrow down who was behind the wheel in family car situations where no one owns up to who was driving. All lower resolution details that, coupled with the fact the said vehicle would likely have a huge dent in it, would allow the police to narrow their search. Maybe someone half the city away who had no idea what happened to you saw a speeding car and got the registration. Same make, model, color. Similar time. The police put two and two together and you are closer to a conviction.

The fact is, having a cam is better than not if you want to persue a conviction. No cam means no evidence. A cam means the hint of something. I'm all for that considering how in the current era even the most respectable of people will leave you fo dead if they think they can escape the concequences. And to be clear a cam is a purchase to be made after investing in all the other protective gear that can avoid or protect you in an accident in the first place.

[litewave]

1 minute ago, WARPed1701D said:

You specify lots of things that could happen to prevent the capture of evidence but give no weight to the possibility that it could grab the piece of evidence needed. Make, model, color, maybe the sex of the driver or some detail of them that could narrow down who was behind the wheel in family car situations where no one owns up to who was driving. All lower resolution details that, coupled with the fact the said vehicle would likely have a huge dent in it, would allow the police to narrow their search. Maybe someone half the city away who had no idea what happened to you saw a speeding car and got the registration. Same make, model, color. Similar time. The police put two and two together and you are closer to a conviction.

The fact is, having a cam is better than not if you want to persue a conviction. No cam means no evidence. A cam means the hint of something. I'm all for that considering how in the current era even the most respectable of people will leave you fo dead if they think they can escape the concequences. And to be clear a cam is a purchase to be made after investing in all the other protective gear that can avoid or protect you in an accident in the first place.

You have experience with this, do you? I don't know where you are in Florida exactly, but local police departments in the US are not like Scotland Yard. If you want to fuss with an action cam because you hope to gain retribution from an accident, maybe you are compensating for something? No offense intended, but your focus seems misplaced.

[WARPed1701D]

1 hour ago, litewave said:

You have experience with this, do you? I don't know where you are in Florida exactly, but local police departments in the US are not like Scotland Yard. If you want to fuss with an action cam because you hope to gain retribution from an accident, maybe you are compensating for something? No offense intended, but your focus seems misplaced.

I really don't know where you are going with your argument here. I'm not offended but why would I be compensating for anything by having a desire to catch someone who may have run me over and left me for dead? Finding the means to ensure justice is not exactly a wild notion...is it?

If i'm dead or in hospital in a coma I think it is fair to believe that the police would be very interested in seeing any footage from a action cam I was wearing at the time of the accident. If you house is burgled (a lesser crime) and you had a video camera pointing at the point of entry do you think a cop would have no interest in seeing that footage?

[litewave]

16 minutes ago, WARPed1701D said:

I really don't know where you are going with your argument here. I'm not offended but why would I be compensating for anything by having a desire to catch someone who may have run me over and left me for dead?

 

I should have chosen my words better; I apologise. It seemed to me that you may have had close calls or perhaps collisions in the past (bicycle, motorcycle?) and, as a result, have adopted a very defensive mindset. I can certainly empathise. Still, I should not have made the assumption/comment.

22 minutes ago, WARPed1701D said:

Finding the means to ensure justice is not exactly a wild notion...is it?

If i'm dead or in hospital in a coma I think it is fair to believe that the police would be very interested in seeing any footage from a action cam I was wearing at the time of the accident. If you house is burgled (a lesser crime) and you had a video camera pointing at the point of entry do you think a cop would have no interest in seeing that footage?

Yes, I [would] want justice in case of an accident, but my attitude towards the criminal justice system (courts, law enforcement) is more cynical. My experiences have taught me that, unless one is very connnected or has strong, well-funded advocates fighting on their behalf, the weakest side loses. So, no, unless the investigating officer takes a personal interest in the case or powerful forces are looking over their shoulder, the fast, easy, wrong answer will prevail.

[LanghamP]

8 minutes ago, litewave said:

 

I should have chosen my words better; I apologise. It seemed to me that you may have had close calls or perhaps collisions in the past (bicycle, motorcycle?) and, as a result, have adopted a very defensive mindset. I can certainly empathise. Still, I should not have made the assumption/comment.

Yes, I [would] want justice in case of an accident, but my attitude towards the criminal justice system (courts, law enforcement) is more cynical. My experiences have taught me that, unless one is very connnected or has strong, well-funded advocates fighting on their behalf, the weakest side loses. So, no, unless the investigating officer takes a personal interest in the case or powerful forces are looking over their shoulder, the fast, easy, wrong answer will prevail.

You could be right.

How about this:

--Under what conditions do you think having an action cam would help you?

--In other words, when would you use an action cam to your advantage?

--Finally, if you did have an action cam, would you prefer to turn it off before crossing crosswalks?

[WARPed1701D]

11 minutes ago, litewave said:

 

I should have chosen my words better; I apologise. It seemed to me that you may have had close calls or perhaps collisions in the past (bicycle, motorcycle?) and, as a result, have adopted a very defensive mindset. I can certainly empathise. Still, I should not have made the assumption/comment.

Yes, I [would] want justice in case of an accident, but my attitude towards the criminal justice system (courts, law enforcement) is more cynical. My experiences have taught me that, unless one is very connnected or has strong, well-funded advocates fighting on their behalf, the weakest side loses. So, no, unless the investigating officer takes a personal interest in the case or powerful forces are looking over their shoulder, the fast, easy, wrong answer will prevail.

No problem. With forums it is always difficult to gauge meaning from text alone. Surprisingly we all rely on tone and body language more than we think to infer context in a discussion.

I understand your point. I see quite a few convictions for hit and run in my area. Even the ones where there are few witnesses. Maybe it is because the police get to see them a lot and are skilled in investigating them. I'm not sure where you are but it would be highly dissapointing to feel nothing would be done if I were gravely injured by a driver. While I don't share the same opinion of the law I can see where you are coming from.

I guess my feeling is that a quality robust camera costs very little nowadays. Having it attached to your helmet as a kind of "dashcam" hurts no one and it offers the opportunity of justice even if the cards are stacked against you in a court of law. In other words...what harm could it do? That is why I personally will have one when I can afford it. I can't afford it right now as I've invested all my spare cash into equipment that helps prevent the accident in the first place and protects me if it happens. Catching the perp is an afterthought...but a satisfying one.

[WARPed1701D]

4 hours ago, LanghamP said:

I bought this 

FITFORT Action Camera 4K WiFi Ultra HD Waterproof Sport Camera 2 Inch LCD Screen 12MP 170 Degree Wide Angle 2 Rechargeable 1050mAh Batteries Free Travel Bag Include 19 Accessories Kits https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06XFM62GB/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_0IWKzbJYW5DEG

With the hope of recording 60fps.

Once you get this I'd appreciate a brief review on the forum. I can't afford a GoPro or Garmin at the moment but would like something and this is certainly well priced.

[litewave]

 

16 minutes ago, LanghamP said:

--Under what conditions do you think having an action cam would help you?

--In other words, when would you use an action cam to your advantage?

Currently, the technology requires too much effort and attention for me as an EUC rider. Dashcam use-cases are entirely different. I personally feel the risk of accident is greater when making videos on an EUC, particularly for accident recording: my focus is on the camera/phone, not the situation unfolding rapidly in front of me. When multiple cameras become integrated into helmets, can record at 120fps, have 8k resolution, and have 2/3-axis optical stabilization and AI tracking, that's when I'll have confidence in them. I might consider using one again when a camera + gimbal package becomes available that is small, lightweight, unobtrusive, and can be used in a set-and-forget scenario.

16 minutes ago, LanghamP said:

--Finally, if you did have an action cam, would you prefer to turn it off before crossing crosswalks?

No, I think the less I have to think about it the better.

[LanghamP]

10 minutes ago, litewave said:

 

Currently, the technology requires too much effort and attention for me as an EUC rider. Dashcam use-cases are entirely different. I personally feel the risk of accident is greater when making videos on an EUC, particularly for accident recording: my focus is on the camera/phone, not the situation unfolding rapidly in front of me. When multiple cameras become integrated into helmets, can record at 120fps, have 8k resolution, and have 2/3-axis optical stabilization and AI tracking, that's when I'll have confidence in them. I might consider using one again when a camera + gimbal package becomes available that is small, lightweight, unobtrusive, and can be used in a set-and-forget scenario.

 

Assuming all the above constraints are met, under what conditions would you turn on your action camera?

[litewave]

1 minute ago, LanghamP said:

Assuming all the above constraints are met, under what conditions would you turn on your action camera?

I think we are headed toward a pervasive recording environment. When that becomes technically feasible and, at least, marginally accepted, then it makes sense for defensive purposes. I have also considered carrying a GoPro or, more likely, the Session just in case I am hassled and can't avoid/escape. Since this hasn't happened to me, I have dismissed it for now. Otherwise, action cams are for content producers and videographers who have information or entertainment they want to share. When I have something compelling or unique, I might contribute as well.

[WARPed1701D]

I think some of the confusion here has come from the intended use of the camera. Either for entertainment (selfie stick, gimbals etc) or essentially as a video log of your/others actions (dashcam, set and forget style). My comments to this point has been with regards to the latter. Helmet mounted. Point Of View. Turn on at the start of the ride. Turn off at the end. Forget about it in between. Self overwriting when memory is full. No distraction to the rider.

Using cameras to make logs of rides for entertainment purposes is awesome. I love watching people riding their wheels in different locations but unless you are highly skilled at riding I do see that usage as a distraction that I most certainly could not handle while also giving the required amount of attention to my surroundings.

Given the topic at hand I think any use of an action cam discussed here is probably of the 'dashcam' not 'entertainment' catigory.

[Acturbo]

48 minutes ago, WARPed1701D said:

Once you get this I'd appreciate a brief review on the forum. I can't afford a GoPro or Garmin at the moment but would like something and this is certainly well priced.

These camera's work really well.  I have one under a different name but its the same thing.  Only downside is going to be battery life.  With constant usage you will probably get around an hour of video on a full charge.  If going on a longer trip this could be an issue.  These often go on sale as well for very cheap.  I paid around 30 bux for mine and it came with 2 batteries.   

[WARPed1701D]

4 minutes ago, Acturbo said:

These camera's work really well.  I have one under a different name but its the same thing.  Only downside is going to be battery life.  With constant usage you will probably get around an hour of video on a full charge.  If going on a longer trip this could be an issue.  These often go on sale as well for very cheap.  I paid around 30 bux for mine and it came with 2 batteries.   

Thanks. My commute is about an hour total so a single battery might work for a day, but two is OK if it can be easily swapped while at work. Is this with 4k recording?

[steve454]

1 hour ago, WARPed1701D said:

Thanks. My commute is about an hour total so a single battery might work for a day, but two is OK if it can be easily swapped while at work. Is this with 4k recording?

You can just plug it in to your computer to charge at work.  Does the V8 have a USB port?  If it does, you could use that.

[WARPed1701D]

7 minutes ago, steve454 said:

You can just plug it in to your computer to charge at work.  Does the V8 have a USB port?  If it does, you could use that.

Alas no USB on the V8. But you are right. I can just charge it at work. No idea why I didn't think of that. Thanks.

[kasenutty]

Hey Warped, maybe try charging at work. 

[steve454]

@WARPed1701D your welcome!  I used to fly a Syma X8 quadcopter (cheap Phantom clone without GPS) and had a Moebius action cam on it, I would watch the flights when I got home by putting the SD card in an adapter and plugging it in to the laptop.  The camera was 80 bucks two years ago, it's amazing what can be had now for around half that.

[Acturbo]

5 hours ago, WARPed1701D said:

Thanks. My commute is about an hour total so a single battery might work for a day, but two is OK if it can be easily swapped while at work. Is this with 4k recording?

Battery is easy to change.  I was not using 4k, I was shooting at 1080p.  

I looked at a couple reviews and the average battery life was around an hour and 30 mins.  So maybe I'm slightly off, haven't used mine in a while.  There is sample footage all over youtube if you just search for the camera by name.

[Dingfelder]

Better watch out using these.  Your wife watching the footage and seeing how much you are checking out all the local girls could eventually infringe on your riding time, or even your face.