Why do EUCs attract such ridicule?

[wheelr]

2 hours ago, Mono said:

It wouldn't be called addiction if it were such a simple choice. I think it is also pretty clear by now that there is genetic components to addiction. Lucky you, and I, if we got "the good" genes. In any case, addiction is widely recognized as a health problem, not as a choice of free will.

There are multiple components to addiction, even astrological and psychological ones. People born under signs like pisces are more prone to addictive behavior, and people deprived of love are more likely to form bonds with things. My brother vapes (he is not very smart), but for him, more than being addicted to a substance, it has become his culture, he knows the ins and outs of vaping, spends half of his salary on vape juice. I mean the vape shops even give him "free" swag, It's all very sad. When someone decides to quit, they're faced with anxiety, this feeling doesn't stem from the addiction or even the withdrawal, but from the regrowth of the lung nerve endings that have been destroyed. One effective way to numb these nerves (as they grow back into health) is to use a nervine, a dropper full for something like liquid skullcap.  Ultimately the choice doesn't correspond to the addiction, but to the willingness of a person to change. Some people, just can't and this is an overall limitation imposed on them since birth.

[Robert Hoffmann]

9 hours ago, RooMiniPro said:

I believe people should be allowed to take any chemical they want as long as it's not airborne and the rest of us don't have to breathe it too.  I'm sick of breathing in other people's smoke and vape clouds.  It's selfish and I hope it gets banned.

Well, I hope you don't own a car, take the bus, or plane, throw nothing in the thrash that might end up in an incinerator, only eat food free from pesticides that end up in the water supply, and live in a wooden house free from industrial ciment, wear clothes that didn't contribute to poluting rivers, and only use biological plastics  ^^

You don't actually need to smoke or vape to poison those around you.

[Mono]

6 hours ago, wheelr said:

There are multiple components to addiction, even astrological

...ouups, you lost me before finishing the first sentence  

Can you point to a scientific study or any other scientific source where this hypothesis has been pursued?

[wheelr]

1 hour ago, Mono said:

Can you point to a scientific study or any other scientific source where this hypothesis has been pursued?

No, because it is not a "scientific hypothesis". It's a well known trait of the sign in astrology. And almost all astrological descriptions of Pisces allude to it. Take it for what you will.

[Keith]

57 minutes ago, wheelr said:

And almost all astrological descriptions of Pisces allude to it. Take it for what you will.

Yes, I was born under Uranus - no wonder the bottom keeps dropping out of my world ?????

[wheelr]

3 minutes ago, Keith said:

Yes, I was born under Uranus - no wonder the bottom keeps dropping out of my world ?????

Interesting how we accept the influence of the Sun and the Moon on Earth, but ridicule and deny the influence that the rest of the celestial bodies have on us.

[Rob Valley]

5 minutes ago, wheelr said:

Interesting how we accept the influence of the Sun and the Moon on Earth, but ridicule and deny the influence that the rest of the celestial bodies have on us.

but you are talking about the influence of the celestial bodies on you, Earth is a bit different, and also, bit bigger

 

I think it's ok for you to belive in anything you want, most of us keep an open mind, but we dont let our brains fall out.
You should respect this, i think most of the people here can respect back if we keep it civilized, but i think that you and  I know that there is no good ending in trying to convince people of your beliefs in here.

 

[wheelr]

21 minutes ago, RobValley said:

but you are talking about the influence of the celestial bodies on you, Earth is a bit different, and also, bit bigger

 

I think it's ok for you to belive in anything you want, most of us keep an open mind, but we dont let our brains fall out.
You should respect this, i think most of the people here can respect back if we keep it civilized, but i think that you and  I know that there is no good ending in trying to convince people of your beliefs in here.

 

The issue is that there is no level to this conversation. To threaten your beliefs was never my intention.

[Rob Valley]

Yes sorry i only quickly scrolled through the bashing, anyways, keeping things on topic,

I Dont really understand the original topic of this thread, Does EUC attract ridicule? 
I Know that the quality of the English might confuse me, at least i do not feel like swearing more after hopping on a EUC, nor is people swearing at me more.

Anyways i do not mind the attention anymore, if any, i wish people would give me less attention, and stop to think what the message is,
i have strong visions how i would like the future to look like, i think all ICE should be banned from a city infrastructure, in the future ICE should only be used to commute between cities, rural areas etc. it is even like this already many places.

when a family arrives at say for example London, they park their car at a large parking complex, where a self driving electric car will pick them up, and they will go on their shopping or whatnot this way, and all other transports will be done by self driving  electrical buses, trucks, bicycles, and ofcourse EUC.

Oslo in Norway has promised to go this way, and i am very interested to see how it will work out.

[Paddylaz]

I've never really understood the phrase 'I respect your beliefs.' I obviously don't, because if I respected them, they'd be MY beliefs.

I think when people say that phrase, what they really mean is ...'i respect you.' There's no obligation to respect actual beliefs if they're silly, or not based on evidence.

Astrology is nonsense.

[Rob Valley]

1 minute ago, Paddylaz said:

I've never really understood the phrase 'I respect your beliefs.' I obviously don't, because if I respected them, they'd be MY beliefs.

I think when people say that phrase, what they really mean is ...'i respect you.' There's no obligation to respect actual beliefs if they're silly, or not based on evidence.

Astrology is nonsense.

Or more like, ' I Respect your freedom to believe anything you want '

the underlying message here was that this is no forum to talk about, as you put it, astrology nonsense

[Keith]

1 minute ago, RobValley said:

the underlying message here was that this is no forum to talk about, as you put it, astrology nonsense

My point was that if my star signs said: “you are going to meet a tall, dark stranger on an EUC and take the piss out of him” it would be pertinent to THIS discussion.

Other than that whether or not I believe Mars being in the ascendant is going to change my life has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with this thread and has no place being discussed in it.

By all means discuss whether astrology will improve your ability to ride an EUC, and allow you to foresee a faceplant before it happens in the Off topic section - but not here, in this thread.

[wheelr]

6 minutes ago, RobValley said:

 

the underlying message here was that this is no forum to talk about, as you put it, astrology nonsense

If that were true, you would have objected to the exchange about vaping. No one topic is isolated from another. 

[Rob Valley]

I Was actually about to get to this, i wanted to congrat @Scatcat for letting go the nasty habit of smoking, i myself is also a recent quitter, i used the "stop smoking" mood altering medicine, and if your lucky enough to avoid some of the nasty side effects, they really are something!
While i am no fan of Vaping, we can discuss all day of the benefits or negative effects, but for sure it is less damaging than your classic marlboro, i think it is a turn in the right direction!

So Grattis Scatcat! keep up the good work and keep knocking that wood, the main reason also for me is that there are many things in the future i don't want to miss, like the EUC thats going to be released in 2030

 

[wheelr]

4 minutes ago, RobValley said:

I Was actually about to get to this, i wanted to congrat @Scatcat for letting go the nasty habit of smoking.

 

Yeah well it shows your hypocrisy. Here's some uncivility for you.

[kasenutty]

Hypocrites, smokers, vapers, knowitalls, amateur astrologists, this thread has it ALL

[Rob Valley]

i used to smoke every time i got up on the wheel, now i regret ever doing so as i think it looks stupid and i do not want to portray me to the kids as the "Cool kid with the EUC and a smoke in the mouth".. you know first impressions and all.

 

[Scatcat]

3 hours ago, RobValley said:

i used to smoke every time i got up on the wheel, now i regret ever doing so as i think it looks stupid and i do not want to portray me to the kids as the "Cool kid with the EUC and a smoke in the mouth".. you know first impressions and all.

 

I'm very happy to hear you don't do that anymore. I'm actually considering not vaping on my wheel for exactly the same reasons.

[RooEUC]

19 hours ago, kasenutty said:

 

Shut up, Roo, you goddamn know-it-all. No one wants to hear your expert opinions on, well, anything really. Go make some DIY leather belt straps you fucking innovator. 

Fun.  Now how about attempting a constructive and meaningful response instead of mere personal attack?  And by 'no-one' I think you meant you.  Plenty of people on the forum listen to my opinions and advice.  It's just that when my opinions on breathing clean air clash with the desires of a select few who enjoy polluting it they get cranky.

[RooEUC]

19 hours ago, steve454 said:

Here we have lawn crews with leaf blowers that send clouds of dirt into the street.  You are breathing dirty air all the time.  All the fertilizer chemicals, plus the car is dirty again.

Are you trying to use an appeal to futility here?  As in, throwing water on old ladies is acceptable because, well, old ladies often get wet when it rains anyway.  So because leaf blowers create dust it's ok for smokers to increase the illness risks of bystanders by smoking in public places?

[kasenutty]

5 minutes ago, RooMiniPro said:

Fun.  Now how about attempting a constructive and meaningful response instead of mere personal attack?  And by 'no-one' I think you meant you.  Plenty of people on the forum listen to my opinions and advice.  It's just that when my opinions on breathing clean air clash with the desires of a select few who enjoy polluting it they get cranky.

 

I am quite confident that I am not the only member who finds you to be a holier-than-thou, boring, pretentious asshole. 

[RooEUC]

19 hours ago, mrelwood said:

Let's start with the ones that pollute the air around us the most. For example motor cars, only allowed inside closed spaces.  I'm sure I have Roo's vote on this!

A motorcar's primary function is transport, not creating toxic smoke to breathe in.  Pollution from cars is unintentional.  Pollution from smoking and vaping is by design and is the primary purpose.  Your analogy doesn't work.

[RooEUC]

19 hours ago, Scatcat said:

At the time I had reached the fantastically mature age of not quite fourteen years old. You know the age where looking cool, tough and grown up seems a lot more important that stupid things like that cigarettes can kill you or that alcohol can ruin your life... If you want to call that acting like a victim, then go on - it's no skin off my nose.

My respect for you and your ilk goes as far as not forcing you to breathe in my vapors. As I said, I actively try to avoid blowing my steam on others, and will move away if I even suspect someone gets disturbed by me puffing. I make mistakes, but they're honest ones. I am not one of those that will say it's my right to puff wherever, and even choose to go outside when at work, even though my boss has said it would be okay to puff indoors.

But my respect also stops there. I have no respect whatsoever for any holier-than-thou attitudes, where mister or missus better-than-you tells me that an addiction that have fucked up so many peoples lives is no more than a free choice to self-destruct. Yes, I probably could stop, if the choice where that or a fucking bullet to my brain. But the insidious problem with addictions is that each "hit" as you call it, doesn't feel life threatening, it's only when you've done it for years and the damage creeps up on you that you realise the self-deception. If it were as simple as you make it sound, there would be no alcoholics, no smokers, no crack-heads, coke snorters, heroine shooters and so on.

Also my respect for your preferences not to breathe in my steam stops at showing normal decent consideration. The fact, as in what we actually know about it, is that there is NO proof whatsoever that there even exist such a thing as second hand vaping. There are no side streams, no tar, no carbon monoxide and no other combustion products.

Some people with conditions like asthma, or very sensitive mucous glands, may feel some irritation by the hygroscopic properties of alcohols like glycerine and propylene glycol. Some that are oversensitive to smells, might react like they would to perfumes. But there are no second hand toxic effects at all. The nicotine is volatile enough that it is basically gone by the time the vapour reaches bystanders, leaving levels that are close to indistinguishable from the background air. The amount of chemicals you get from the surrounding air in a typical city or suburb is as bad or worse than what I produce - unless I blow right into your face, or you're locked into a bloody telephone booth with me serial vaping.

It may look like awesome volumes of "smoke" (steam), but you actually get exactly the same concoction and more of it visiting a typical discotheque or concert where there is a smoke machine present. In reality a typical smoke-machine produces less clean vapour, since the running temperatures are often higher and the coils dirtier.

Maybe you should make a case for banning smoke machines from concerts and discotheques? Wouldn't that be fun?

I appreciate that you actively try to avoid getting smoke in other people's faces and I'm sorry that you are dealing with addiction.  But addiction is not a dead end, you can get off those substances with some will power.  I have a friend who is obese.  She cries all the time about her weight and tries all these diet fads every month.  She follows all these instagram fitness models and talks about how she's going to get fit.  Yet when it comes to actually doing the work of just not picking up the hamburger and actually doing some exercise, she doesn't even try.  Most ex smokers I know see vaping as like a cheat code where they get to keep doing exactly what they've been doing but feel healthier, with no effort to actually break out of the addiction to nicotine.  It's easier than ever to remain addicted because vaping makes it so much easier and more fun.  I see people start vaping who would never dream of starting to smoke.  And once they try the nicotine juices, bang, they are hooked into something they will one day regret. 

Unfortunately most vapers and smokers are not as considerate as you, and instead don't care about filling the entrance zones of buildings and the streets with smoke or blowing huge vape clouds 6 feet away from me at the park.  I grew up in a smoking home and it was disgusting.  And being asthmatic the smoke bothers me when people smoke around me.  Vape vapour doesn't bother my lungs so much but I would like to keep my right to breathe as few toxins as possible.  Vape juices do contain toxins and I just don't want that stuff in my body.  Like I said, I support other people putting whatever they want into their bodies, but I don't think it's fair for them to force it upon those of us who don't want to breathe it in.  I don't force anyone to eat, drink or breathe anything that I consume.   

Vaping is the next smoking, with vape companies marketing all these candy flavours to get teenagers hooked and profit from them.  It may be a dream come true for people who love smoking and don't care about their health, but vaping anything with addictive chemicals in it is nothing but negative in the long run. 

[kasenutty]

I use to think Roo was a jerk, but now that I found out he is actually friends with an obese person, voluntarily I might add, I think he is and kind a loving man. 

Roo's friend may be obese, but he is always the bigger person

[RooEUC]

17 hours ago, Mono said:

On this one, I don't think the evidence is with you. It wouldn't be called addiction if it were such a simple choice. I think it is also pretty clear by now that there is genetic components to addiction. Lucky you, and I, if we got "the good" genes. In any case, addiction is widely recognized as a health problem, not as a choice of free will.

I understand the science of addiction quite well.  I have a deep interest in brain functioning and what triggers dopamine release.  Addiction can be powerful.  But no one is born addicted to smoking.  Anyone who started smoking after say 1990, knows that it's addictive, toxic, unhealthy and may lead cancer and death. And no one is addicted from the first cigarette.  Most people don't even like their first draw.  But they push on through, smoke after smoke until addiction sets in.  They are not total victims, forced against their wills to smoke.  Going into such a hobby while being fully aware of the negative outcome is not an intelligent decision.  20 years later throwing the hands up and saying "wow is me, I am but a victim, and now I'm ill, it's not fair, how did this happen? This is an outrage."  Yes, the tobacco companies were evil and yes, as usual our governments failed us by allowing tobacco to be sold and marketed for much too long.  But people need to at least take SOME responsibility for what they willingly decide to put into their bodies several thousand times in a row.