Marty Backe Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 After putting my ACM back together and riding it for about 25 miles, the battery level was down to ~40%. I put it on the charger and it started charging. Sometime within an hour I walked by and noticed that it had stopped charging, but the battery was maybe 45%. Guess I'll be opening the wheel, but the battery connectors seemed pretty straight forward when I reconnected everything before buttoning the wheel up. Any suggestions on what I should look for? Thanks in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriull Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 Charger voltage, battery in and out voltage. you have a second charger? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 1 hour ago, Marty Backe said: After putting my ACM back together and riding it for about 25 miles, the battery level was down to ~40%. I put it on the charger and it started charging. Sometime within an hour I walked by and noticed that it had stopped charging, but the battery was maybe 45%. Guess I'll be opening the wheel, but the battery connectors seemed pretty straight forward when I reconnected everything before buttoning the wheel up. Any suggestions on what I should look for? Thanks in advance. I would at first measure each Batterie pack... Then, when you have open the wheel, disconnect one of the Batterie packs completly, all Charge, discharge, and Balance wires, and try to load each of the packs seperatly. Perhaps with this method you can eleminate a defective BMS/Batterie pack... When connecting back the 2 packs be sure, they are at the same voltage! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted July 17, 2017 Author Share Posted July 17, 2017 40 minutes ago, Chriull said: Charger voltage, battery in and out voltage. you have a second charger? I have multiple chargers. They all indicate a full charge. I believe the wheel has the correct charge (~45%) because it's consistent with the number of miles ridden on the last charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted July 17, 2017 Author Share Posted July 17, 2017 27 minutes ago, KingSong69 said: I would at first measure each Batterie pack... Then, when you have open the wheel, disconnect one of the Batterie packs completly, all Charge, discharge, and Balance wires, and try to load each of the packs seperatly. Perhaps with this method you can eleminate a defective BMS/Batterie pack... When connecting back the 2 packs be sure, they are at the same voltage! Thanks. Unfortunately I don't think I understand or know how to do any of what you suggest. When I last rode the wheel about a month ago it was charging normally. A BMS/Battery pack can go bad so quickly? When I rebuilt my wheel I connected the two battery packs together and then connected to the board. I really didn't give any of this special thought. Just plugged everything together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriull Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 15 minutes ago, Marty Backe said: Thanks. Unfortunately I don't think I understand or know how to do any of what you suggest. When I last rode the wheel about a month ago it was charging normally. A BMS/Battery pack can go bad so quickly? When I rebuilt my wheel I connected the two battery packs together and then connected to the board. I really didn't give any of this special thought. Just plugged everything together. The connections to the mb seem to be ok, since you could ride. Chances are quite high that the charger(s) are ok, too. so since you can't charge either the charging connection, the balancing wires are one/both BMS are messed up... bms input (charge) protection should normaly reset once the charger is plugged in. so after double, triple checking these wires and contacts you could disconnect the batteries and then just connect one battery pack, try to charge it and then you try to connect just the other one and try to charge it. could be that one has a defective BMS or severe unbalanced cells and by this hinders charging of both packs? wasn't there some voltage difference prob already once you reassembled the packs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 15 minutes ago, Marty Backe said: Thanks. Unfortunately I don't think I understand or know how to do any of what you suggest. When I last rode the wheel about a month ago it was charging normally. A BMS/Battery pack can go bad so quickly? When I rebuilt my wheel I connected the two battery packs together and then connected to the board. I really didn't give any of this special thought. Just plugged everything together. Ok, i guess you have enough chargers at home, so that you can exclude a charger as fault.... :-) Then there is only the Batterie or BMS or wiring left..... At first i would check the wiring, has each pack it's chargeside, discharge(power) and the third pair, which is balancing between the packs, are they all connected? Then second: As the 2 Batterie packs have some sort of communication between them, perhaps one of the BMS/Batteriepack has gone bad and because of that the complete wheel does not Charge over 45%? So i would select one of the packs, and unplug it completly(take out of the wheel)! Then connect the charger to the wheel and try to Charge the leftover batteriepack! If it goes to 100%....then try the other: After that, you can unplug the Batterie pack, take it out of the wheel, and instead plug in/install the one you have not charged until now.... I would guess with this "Charge one by one" you can find out, if and which of the packs is not ok.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted July 17, 2017 Author Share Posted July 17, 2017 1 minute ago, Chriull said: The connections to the mb seem to be ok, since you could ride. Chances are quite high that the charger(s) are ok, too. so since you can't charge either the charging connection, the balancing wires are one/both BMS are messed up... bms input (charge) protection should normaly reset once the charger is plugged in. so after double, triple checking these wires and contacts you could disconnect the batteries and then just connect one battery pack, try to charge it and then you try to connect just the other one and try to charge it. could be that one has a defective BMS or severe unbalanced cells and by this hinders charging of both packs? wasn't there some voltage difference prob already once you reassembled the packs? Thanks much for the tips. Since all the batteries (two in the ACM) are connected in parallel I don't see how I could have made a mistake there, but maybe with those other bms connectors. I'm nervous with the sequence of connecting/disconnecting the batteries - I don't want to blow up anything like @Rehab1 may have done. Maybe I'll post a couple of pictures as-is before I disconnect anything, for additional advice. Thanks guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriull Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 45 minutes ago, Marty Backe said: Thanks much for the tips. Since all the batteries (two in the ACM) are connected in parallel I don't see how I could have made a mistake there, but maybe with those other bms connectors. I'm nervous with the sequence of connecting/disconnecting the batteries - I don't want to blow up anything like @Rehab1 may have done. Maybe I'll post a couple of pictures as-is before I disconnect anything, for additional advice. Thanks guys. Disconnecting is no prob (1) - with the reconnection one should be cautious! Before reconnecting double check for similar voltages (at both sides) and reverse the sequence- first balancing wires, then charge side and at last the mb connection? ... and also inbetween voltage measurements - they could give some hint. (1) maybe first disconnect the mb, then the charging connection and as last the balancing wires?! edit : the reconnect sequence is neither knowledge nor expierience - just the thought that firstly the communication should be established, then the protected charging side and at last the unprotected mb connection.. for disconnecting i would have the same reasoning for the reverse sequence Edit2: could be a good idea to google a bit around or search for some "gotway directives" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab1 Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 5 hours ago, Marty Backe said: After putting my ACM back together and riding it for about 25 miles, the battery level was down to ~40%. I put it on the charger and it started charging. Sometime within an hour I walked by and noticed that it had stopped charging, but the battery was maybe 45%. Guess I'll be opening the wheel, but the battery connectors seemed pretty straight forward when I reconnected everything before buttoning the wheel up. Any suggestions on what I should look for? Thanks in advance. Marty I have full faith you reassembled everything correctly. I know you made some modifications to the length of the motor cables but that should not be the issue. ? Scratching my head. As @KingSong69 and @Chriull mentioned check the voltage of each pack once everything is disconnected. Were there any other burnt wires that you replaced? Does the mainboard and battery pack power XL60 connector electrode pins show any signs of erosion? Even though there is a small arc each time you reconnect the XL 60's there is a tendency over time to erode the terminals. How are your solder connections where you spliced in the new wires. You may want to perform a resistance check at these sites. You are the only one that I am aware of that increased the length of the motor wires. 2 hours ago, Marty Backe said: I'm nervous with the sequence of connecting/disconnecting the batteries - I don't want to blow up anything like @Rehab1 may have done. Maybe I'll post a couple of pictures as-is before I disconnect anything, for additional advice. Just remember to reconnect the mainboard board XL60 connector Last in the sequence. I also like to discharge the MB capacitors first by depressing the ACM power switch. Being that you do not have the spark arrestor connector be sure to be deliberate when pushing the XL60 connectors together! Do not hesitate or the arcing will eventually cook the connector's electrodes. When I look back I see why people are scared but remember my event was unique. If your worried just wear some cloth gloves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriull Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 27 minutes ago, Rehab1 said: Just remember to reconnect the mainboard board XL60 connector Last in the sequence. I also like to discharge the MB capacitors first by depressing the ACM power switch. Being that you do not have the spark arrestor connector be sure to be deliberate when pushing the XL60 connectors together! Do not hesitate or the arcing will eventually cook the connector's electrodes. Without a spark artestor connector i would not discharge the mb capacitor. but such a indermediate connector should be quite easy to make - imho @zlymexposted once a how to? Just two connectors to put inbetween with a ?1k/10k? Resistor inbetween. Edit: found @zlymex's post: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 38 minutes ago, Chriull said: Without a spark artestor connector i would not discharge the mb capacitor. Plus One!!! No discharging of the capacitor's! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab1 Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 4 hours ago, Chriull said: Without a spark artestor connector i would not discharge the mb capacitor. 3 hours ago, KingSong69 said: Plus One!!! No discharging of the capacitor's! Interesting as I have seen Ian of Speedyfeet on his latest video perform this procedure immediately after disconnecting the MB XL 60 from the packs and he does not have the spark arrestor. At 1:20 into the video you watch the process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted July 17, 2017 Author Share Posted July 17, 2017 So I take my ACM apart again , disconnect the power and try charging each battery by itself. Nothing happens! They are both at the identical voltage BTW. This is not brain surgery! So I start poking around at the next possible area and discover my charge port is flaky. I press on the wires at the port with a probe and the charger starts charging. Remove my "pressure probe" and the charging stops. Damn. So now I get to remove the whole shell again (hopefully just the non-control board side) so that I can get full access to that charge port and see what exactly failed. I wonder if pushing 4 amps through it with the EWheels Fast Charger made a crappy solder connection worse? Hmmm. I'll find out tonight. Thanks for all of your input guys. As is usually the case, until you've traveled the road there are uncertainties. So now I'm more familiar with the batteries (as I always look for the upside) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted July 17, 2017 Author Share Posted July 17, 2017 BTW, all of my wiring and solder connections look perfect. And I did some good uphill and high temperature riding with @Sven the evening after I reassembled my ACM, to test things out. Andy will be publishing a video from that ride. So I'm really feeling good about my wiring harness surgery Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 Glad to hear that you were able to find the source of the problem. It's aggravating to encounter all the little weaknesses in these wheels, but taking the can-do DIY attitude I think you gain invaluable experience. This might be a good opportunity to swap to heavier gauge charging wires if you see fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted July 17, 2017 Author Share Posted July 17, 2017 5 minutes ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said: Glad to hear that you were able to find the source of the problem. It's aggravating to encounter all the little weaknesses in these wheels, but taking the can-do DIY attitude I think you gain invaluable experience. This might be a good opportunity to swap to heavier gauge charging wires if you see fit. If nothing else, I may try charging at 5 amps and empirically determine if the wires are getting too hot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 1 minute ago, Marty Backe said: If nothing else, I may try charging at 5 amps and empirically determine if the wires are getting too hot. "Empirically" as in placing a small marshmallow on the charging cables to see if there is a fine roast that occurs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted July 17, 2017 Author Share Posted July 17, 2017 2 minutes ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said: "Empirically" as in placing a small marshmallow on the charging cables to see if there is a fine roast that occurs? Hey, I was wondering how to measure it, but I think you stumbled on the perfect solution Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab1 Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 1 hour ago, Marty Backe said: Damn. So now I get to remove the whole shell again (hopefully just the non-control board side) so that I can get full access to that charge port and see what exactly failed. I wonder if pushing 4 amps through it with the EWheels Fast Charger made a crappy solder connection worse? Hmmm. I'll find out tonight. Glad you are making progress! It will be interesting to hear what you find out. Taking a picture in that area is tough but please try. On a positive note you'll soon be able to do this blindfolded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted July 17, 2017 Author Share Posted July 17, 2017 14 minutes ago, Rehab1 said: Glad you are making progress! It will be interesting to hear what you find out. Taking a picture in that area is tough but please try. On a positive note you'll soon be able to do this blindfolded. Unfortunately I think you're right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jrkline "Wheel Whisperer" Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 9 hours ago, Marty Backe said: Unfortunately I think you're right Remember,working with EUC batteries is fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted July 18, 2017 Author Share Posted July 18, 2017 See the conclusion to my troubleshoot here: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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