Cerbera Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 Hello EU forum ! It's my first post here, so hopefully I'm doing it in the right place... I have been very happy for all of the 2 years and couple of thousand miles I have had on my Airwheel X5, but as its battery finally dies on me I have been looking for something bigger, faster and better. My MS3 820wh got here last week, and so here is my initial review / thoughts on that wheel... Supplier / Delivery I got my MSuper from Graham @Yorkshire Airwheels, and it arrived the day after I ordered it, very well packed. I received a few emails from him, one with the latest android version of the app, and some tips and tricks to get going on the new wheel. He also warned me about a new potential problem that had been found with the V3, in which if you do 'violent idling' there is a chance the machine will fold on you, and he offered me a pre-dispatch refund, which I turned down. Subsequently, the person reporting that problem seemed to withdraw his post, Gotway themselves commented that this is not a problem during normal riding conditions, so I continued with the purchase, and resolved to test it with caution. Build Quality The MSuper18V3 is a properly heavy wheel - 19.34KG, but I was impressed with the feeling of solidity the unit confers. The large angled pedals are rock solid, and feature really strong magnets to keep them up when stowed (unlike my Airwheel - the pedals were always falling down on that, and scraping my shins !). Having watched several crash videos I am aware that the plastic casing is not the most durable thing in the world, and can crumple and crack in a serious crash if luck isn't on my side, but apart from that, it does feel like a really solid unit. The wide-form tyre is superb - very rugged and grippy. Likewise, the footplates are brilliant - rubber and skateboard style grip-mat means your feet are not slipping off those pedals, even in wet weather (again, unlike the airwheel, which was slippy as all hell until I added my own grip-mat). Design I like nearly all aspects of the design of the MS3. The headlight,whilst not particularly 'long-throw', is good enough to ride in the dark, but not very fast. If you want to go fast at night, you need additional lighting to see your hazards well in advance. It's great that you can control it with the power switch or via the app. I love the rear LED that acts as a battery meter when you are stopped. I like the leg padding, which is at perfect height for me, and very comfortable against my knees / calves. I like the trolley handle, which only took minutes to master (push your wheel everywhere / don't pull it). The main handle is perfect for picking the unit up from its side, or from above, although you don't want to be carrying it for long - it's very heavy. There is a USB port provided, which is a particularly nice touch. Negatives here would be the protruding power socket, and the lack of rear mudguard that everyone mentions. Everything else is fine. First Rides When I first stepped onto the MS3 I was instantly made aware that riding this was going to be very different to the airwheel. Whereas that machine is a jumpy little terrier, the MS3 is more of a gracefully loping racehorse. It took me less than half an hour to get used to the different feel, and it quickly became obvious to me that I enjoyed the ride quality a lot more on my new machine. I had it set in 'Powerful' mode from the word go, and I really liked the slightly spongy, swingy feel of the ride. It feels smooth and even, and stable.The machine's weight and wide tyre mean it is really steady on the ground at medium speed, and it maintains this as speed climbs towards 30 kph. On occasion I found myself wobbling slightly at higher speeds, and having to brake to eradicate that, before regaining speed more smoothly. Smoothly is the key with this wheel - the more graceful and even your movement, the more nicely it responds to your touch. At slower speeds the wheel is more difficult to manoeuvre and requires more effort to turn than my X5, as we'd expect because of the weight and tyre size differences. It is not at all unmanageable though - and I was quickly executing tight turns, and navigating very twisty paths with relative ease after only a couple of sessions with it. It's a top-class ride feel for me, with one exception... The weight problem The wheel might be heavy, but I am not. I weigh 9 stone, or about 56 Kg. This is a good thing as far as range and battery life go, but bad for the following reason: I really struggle to go uphill at any sort of decent speed, or to get enough weight into my toes to accelerate past about 25 km/h. I have to lean so far forward in these circumstances that my heels actually leave the footplates altogether, and so I am hanging on by my toes ! This is sort of OK going slowly uphill, but when you're at 25 km/h + this is a big concern not to have all your feet on the pedals. I am fairly sure that this behaviour is because I am using long-ingrained Airwheel techniques on a Gotway, and some adjustment to foot position and lean strength is likely required before I can sail up hills like I used to on the X5. So I blame me there, not the MS3, though I also note I am not the first person to notice this... Other than that I really like the response of the MS3 - it brakes and accelerates well, and I don't mind the subtle rocking that happens between acceleration and deceleration - for me that actually adds to the 'classiness' of the ride - it's like an air brake for your feet The App I've tried 3 versions of the Gotway app now, and they are all pretty flaky, except for bluetooth connection to the device, which is very solid and reliable. Both real-time speed indicator and battery indicator vary wildly as you go along, so it is difficult to trust their measurements. While I was testing the latest app, I disabled the alarms, and have so far been unable to turn them back on again. The machine double-beeps in response to me telling it to 'Open all alarms', but then no alarm happens <27km/h. I have yet to test it any faster than that, or to try setting tilt-back to a low speed so I can check that's working. I'll assume it does work for now, set as it is on 36 km/h. I hope I can fix this, because I really want those alarms working ! I am not going to be one of those people that crashes because I ignored the beeps ! For me, the most useful aspects of the app (other then the settings of course) is the 'press to beep', which is excellent in use as a warning bell to pedestrians, and the temperature gauge which shows if you may risk overheating. Having said that, I live in the UK, so overheating is rarely a problem ! Some aspects of it, such as total mileage, and miles travelled are just garbage data as far as I can see. 10 minutes after leaving the house this morning the app informed me I had travelled 5270 miles, and that figure changed constantly and randomly as I went along. But no matter - I have other apps for recording distance traveled and accurately measuring my speed... Initial Summary There is a lot to love about this wheel - it really does make me very happy to be riding it. Sometimes I quietly chuckle as I go along - I am enjoying myself that much On the whole it feels safe and solid, and I'm really glad I bought it. I mainly use it on the cycle path into town and round the local lake, between 15-30 km/h, and it does that job admirably, many many times on a single charge. Very impressed with the range. This wheel glides over bumps and potholes (and even up kerbs) in a way that the Airwheel never could - so paths that used to be maximum 'Airwheel danger zones' for me are suddenly transformed into merely 'other paths I can now ride'. I don't ever feel short of power, speed or torque (although as mentioned I do occasionally feel a lack of my own lean-weight) and it is real joy to never have to encounter the speed warning beeps I used to be constantly battling on my Airwheel. It is a definite step up in the right direction. What a wheel ! If anyone is interested (I know I'm quite late to the party!) I'll post updates as time and experimentation goes on... CBR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pArmitage Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 1 hour ago, Cerbera said: I have to lean so far forward in these circumstances that my heels actually leave the footplates altogether, and so I am hanging on by my toes ! This is sort of OK going slowly uphill, but when you're at 25 km/h + this is a big concern not to have all your feet on the pedals. Adjust the vertical calibration so that you're leaning futher back normally? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbera Posted October 25, 2016 Author Share Posted October 25, 2016 2 minutes ago, pArmitage said: Adjust the vertical calibration so that you're leaning futher back normally? I've seen Horizontal Calibration in the settings but not vertical - what am I missing ? Do you know if anyone has described the procedure for doing that ? I have seen Kevin Lee's video on how to H-calibrate, but that didn't mention how to set that up to anything other than perfectly level. Would you just follow his procedure but slightly tilt the unit back as it calibrates ? Pls forgive my newbie stupidity here - I have never had to calibrate a wheel before now, and would hate to do it wrong... Thanks CBR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 5 minutes ago, Cerbera said: I've seen Horizontal Calibration in the settings but not vertical - what am I missing ? Do you know if anyone has described the procedure for doing that ? I have seen Kevin Lee's video on how to H-calibrate, but that didn't mention how to set that up to anything other than perfectly level. Would you just follow his procedure but slightly tilt the unit back as it calibrates ? Pls forgive my newbie stupidity here - I have never had to calibrate a wheel before now, and would hate to do it wrong... Thanks CBR There's only one type of calibration - horizontal would probably be the best description. It would be worthwhile to try a different setting to see if that helps you. When you go through the procedure, instead of holding the wheel level, tilt it back. You can try different amounts to see what works best for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbera Posted October 25, 2016 Author Share Posted October 25, 2016 2 minutes ago, Marty Backe said: There's only one type of calibration - horizontal would probably be the best description. It would be worthwhile to try a different setting to see if that helps you. When you go through the procedure, instead of holding the wheel level, tilt it back. You can try different amounts to see what works best for you. Perfect - thank you - I'll do that tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
16bitSprite Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 Thankyou for the review. I am so glad you are happy with your new wheel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriull Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 4 hours ago, Cerbera said: ... He also warned me about a new potential problem that had been found with the V3, in which if you do 'violent idling' there is a chance the machine will fold on you, and he offered me a pre-dispatch refund, which I turned down. Subsequently, the person reporting that problem seemed to withdraw his post, Gotway themselves commented that this is not a problem during normal riding conditions, so I continued with the purchase, and resolved to test it with caution. Idling back and forth is about the biggest burden for a wheel - so any wheel will fold on one if it is done long and "strong" enough... Some will give you overpower/overtemp warnings and then cut-off, some will fry their mosfets... ;( So one solution to this problem is to consider going heavily back and forth as not normal riding conditon Quote ...but bad for the following reason: I really struggle to go uphill at any sort of decent speed, or to get enough weight into my toes to accelerate past about 25 km/h. I have to lean so far forward in these circumstances that my heels actually leave the footplates altogether, and so I am hanging on by my toes ! This is sort of OK going slowly uphill, but when you're at 25 km/h + this is a big concern not to have all your feet on the pedals. That's imho not only a prob for "low weight" person - this seems to be something own with KS/GW. They need excessive force to accelerate up inclines... Beside the already written tipp of adjusting the calibration, @Blunzngave me the tipp to squeeze the wheel between the calves and press it forward. Quote I am fairly sure that this behaviour is because I am using long-ingrained Airwheel techniques on a Gotway, and some adjustment to foot position and lean strength is likely required before I can sail up hills like I used to on the X5. With your X5 you sailed the hills up with about 25 km/h? ( sorry - could'nt resist ). Edit: PS.: One thing maybe to add for your Msuper v3 - as it seems in http://forum.electricunicycle.org/topic/5541-msuper-v3-top-speed-crash-wrecked-shell/ it could be that this wheel cuts-off once the motherboard reaches ~80°C with maybe some beeps before or even without (or just not heard because of the airstream). So - have fun with your new wheel and in this forum! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 5 hours ago, Cerbera said: He also warned me about a new potential problem that had been found with the V3, in which if you do 'violent idling' there is a chance the machine will fold on you, and he offered me a pre-dispatch refund, whic Just to pick up on this. I would take "Violent idling" to mean rocking backwards and forwards more or less on the spot. Virtually all EUC's take very very unkindly to that. Maximum torque and maximum current are available at zero speed so accelerating forward fast, breaking fast, accelerating backwards fast, then breaking, then repeating this over and over again is going to generate the very highest stresses possible on any wheel, the more powerful the wheel the worst it will be. Of course you also have the greatest heat generation and least cooling as well. There is a video somewhere of a guy blowing up two wheels (can't remember make) by doing this deliberately (supposedly as a quality test) and whinging about the "poor quality" of the wheel and that the manufacturer wouldn't talk to him after he blew the second (they actually replaced the first.) When I watched his video and the very extreme, in fact impossible without supporting himself between two desks, things he was doing to the wheel the only thought that entered my head was: "What a Prat!". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbera Posted October 25, 2016 Author Share Posted October 25, 2016 4 minutes ago, Chriull said: With your X5 you sailed the hills up with about 25 km/h? ( sorry - could'nt resist ). Yes that's right No - of course I mostly crawled up them, but with no excessive leaning required. Thanks for the squeeze and push tip ! I'll try that one before I recalibrate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbera Posted October 25, 2016 Author Share Posted October 25, 2016 36 minutes ago, Keith said: Virtually all EUC's take very very unkindly to that. Maximum torque and maximum current are available at zero speed so accelerating forward fast, breaking fast, accelerating backwards fast, then breaking, then repeating this over and over again is going to generate the very highest stresses possible on any wheel, the more powerful the wheel the worst it will be. Of course you also have the greatest heat generation and least cooling as well. That totally makes sense. However, my little Airwheel was exceptionally good at hard idling. When I was mastering 'staying stationary without putting a foot down' I did constant idling on it every day for 10 minutes at a time every time I made a cup of tea while I waited for the kettle to boil ! It does have to be said, it never once failed in this task. Perhaps i was lucky; my only explanation for that is that my idling was only 'violent' and juddery when I first learned to do it - after some practice it rapidly became very small, gentle, graceful movements to achieve the same result - I assume that stressed the wheel much less. I doubt I will do the same thing with the Gotway. There is almost no situation I am ever in while riding in public where I have to idle like that, so having proved to myself that I can if I have to, I don't feel the need to practice it any more, which is just as well by the sound of it ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Spalding Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 Thank you so much for the thoughtful and thorough review, especially when you are comparing it to your old wheel... (On which you had a great deal of experience) I hope that you will be a very active member around here and enjoy every mile on your MSuper v3 Please post some pictures and videos, if you have an opportunity congrats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomad Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 Welcome to the big leagues and I hope you upgraded your protective gear as well if you'll be cruising at 25-35 km/h. I know how comfy and stable this wheel is, very nice around 30 km/h. Seems like quite the step up you did from the previous wheel you had for such a long time! Just some of my thoughts about tiltback.. I guess you want the wheel to prevent you from getting to the overload zone? Do not set tiltback above 30 km/h on this wheel. You set it at the same speed as the last alarm and at that point it's not very useful I think. It will disrupt your balance when it activates and also make braking more difficult. I don't know if you're used to tiltback or if Airwheel even has it but you may not want to deal with that at higher speeds.. Also you want as much power as possible to lower the risk of a faceplant, tiltback takes extra power for the needed speed boost, in action it pushes you closer to the power and speed limits. After two years experience do you really need tiltback to take over control from you speeding? Thanks to Gotway you a free to set the wheel up how want (except the last alarm) and I think that's great, just beware of the tiltback setting... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbera Posted October 25, 2016 Author Share Posted October 25, 2016 52 minutes ago, Greg Spalding said: I hope that you will be a very active member around here and enjoy every mile on your MSuper v3 Please post some pictures and videos, if you have an opportunity I very much hope to do all those things. This seems like a really friendly, welcoming forum. I have no idea why it's taken me 2 years to find you all ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Spalding Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 Just now, Cerbera said: I very much hope to do all those things. This seems like a really friendly, welcoming forum. I have no idea why it's taken me 2 years to find you all ! i'm just glad you found us now i love this place as well... so many wonderful folks here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbera Posted October 25, 2016 Author Share Posted October 25, 2016 39 minutes ago, nomad said: I hope you upgraded your protective gear as well if you'll be cruising at 25-35 km/h Not yet I haven't, so you are right to remind me. I play piano for a living so wrist guards are the most essential thing - I am at least wearing those ! While I am in my first few weeks with the Gotway, I am being careful not to do anything too fast or exciting until I get some armour sorted. I plan to get a 1 or 2 piece motorbike suit with integral padding around all the vital areas. Do you think that's a good idea, or do you have any other suggestions ? I do have a stig-style helmet as well, which I plan to wear only when I am doing extra exciting off-road terrain hopping and downhill BMX slaloms 47 minutes ago, nomad said: Just some of my thoughts about tiltback Thank you for your thoughts on this - you are right - I don't need the tilt-back, but I wanted it on while I wasn't sure if my alarms were working. Having lifted the wheel off the ground to check the alarms are working (they are), then I can turn this off, or as you say, down to 30. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gray Goodbarn Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 It was something going around on the internet at the time about a braking issue ,i did email Jane at Gotway and she confirmed via the technicians that there is no problems with the MSv3 , I was just being honest at the time as i did not know and passed the correct information around accordingly. I love my V3 also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 2 hours ago, Cerbera said: That totally makes sense. However, my little Airwheel was exceptionally good at hard idling. When I was mastering 'staying stationary without putting a foot down' I did constant idling on it every day for 10 minutes at a time every time I made a cup of tea while I waited for the kettle to boil ! It does have to be said, it never once failed in this task. Perhaps i was lucky; my only explanation for that is that my idling was only 'violent' and juddery when I first learned to do it - after some practice it rapidly became very small, gentle, graceful movements to achieve the same result - I assume that stressed the wheel much less. I doubt I will do the same thing with the Gotway. There is almost no situation I am ever in while riding in public where I have to idle like that, so having proved to myself that I can if I have to, I don't feel the need to practice it any more, which is just as well by the sound of it ! There is no problem with idling on the V3! the guy who brought this "problem"(which is none in my view) up...wanted to demonstrate that he had a problem with braking... so he made a video of him idling while holding to something, with such an overexcessive force, that the whell collapsed just for a nanosecond and regained power the same second...with that method he wants to demonstrate that "hard" braking is not possible. Gotway answered that on 120!!amps the board cut out for a millisecond...just to protect it did not fry! so braking is the same as accellerating...there is always the chance to "leanover"... i am 100-105kg on my v3 and can say that i have had some emergency brakes from higher speed that went all good! for your hill problems, i can only give you the tip to put your feet a little bit more to the front in general or like said, clamp the wheel with your legs....i for my part have no problems with inclines, but i am near twice your weight and feets 43 size. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 Once more to the idling: on an x5 or real old EUC's with 350-500watt motor on idling only some amps are generated by small batterie packs! on the powerhorses like ACM, kS18, V3 this is a complete other thing... they push about 40amps on every idle move through the board...so its quiet normal that this goes to overheat the board ofter some time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbera Posted October 25, 2016 Author Share Posted October 25, 2016 4 minutes ago, KingSong69 said: Once more to the idling: on an x5 or real old EUC's with 350-500watt motor on idling only some amps are generated by small batterie packs! on the powerhorses like ACM, kS18, V3 this is a complete other thing... they push about 40amps on every idle move through the board...so its quiet normal that this goes to overheat the board ofter some time Yep. Makes total sense. Thanks for the reassurance about V3 idling and braking - that is good to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 1 hour ago, Cerbera said: Yep. Makes total sense. Thanks for the reassurance about V3 idling and braking - that is good to know. And one more: Welcome ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roll Model Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 13 hours ago, Marty Backe said: There's only one type of calibration - horizontal would probably be the best description. It would be worthwhile to try a different setting to see if that helps you. When you go through the procedure, instead of holding the wheel level, tilt it back. You can try different amounts to see what works best for you. Many wheels have a shut off when the wheel tips beyond a certain angles. So if you calibrate it while it is leaning over (left to right) you will not have a setting that is uniform and this shut off will happen early for one direction and late for another... There is a video on youtube from Dion or Speedyfeet which covers this. But I defer to those with more experience and simply pass along knowledge from others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbera Posted October 25, 2016 Author Share Posted October 25, 2016 4 minutes ago, Roll Model said: Many wheels have a shut off when the wheel tips beyond a certain angles. So if you calibrate it while it is leaning over (left to right) you will not have a setting that is uniform and this shut off will happen early for one direction and late for another... There is a video on youtube from Dion or Speedyfeet which covers this. But I defer to those with more experience and simply pass along knowledge from others. Thanks, Roll Model. Indeed - while calibrating I will be very careful to only alter the front-back angle, and will keep it dead straight left to right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 20 minutes ago, Roll Model said: Many wheels have a shut off when the wheel tips beyond a certain angles. So if you calibrate it while it is leaning over (left to right) you will not have a setting that is uniform and this shut off will happen early for one direction and late for another... There is a video on youtube from Dion or Speedyfeet which covers this. But I defer to those with more experience and simply pass along knowledge from others. The left/right tilt is not very critical since it only plays a role when the wheel is tilted beyond 45 degrees (i.e., it is falling over). So it really doesn't matter when performing the main calibration if it's tilted slightly left or right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roll Model Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 @Cerbera I doubt a degree or two would matter much for the left and right...They are set pretty high (45 degrees on some) and so whether it's 45 or 47 won't really matter - But if you had it leaning way over it could. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 2 minutes ago, Roll Model said: @Cerbera I doubt a degree or two would matter much for the left and right...They are set pretty high (45 degrees on some) and so whether it's 45 or 47 won't really matter - But if you had it leaning way over it could. the 45degree tilt is only for left/right...there is none for leaning in front/back... That btw would not even work, because if you lean in front heavily your wheel accelerates and always stays horzontal! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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