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First GotWay MSuper V3 1600/84V video... even higher-pitched whine?


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1 hour ago, Cloud said:

Unlikely noticeably different, but impossible to tell from the video, as different microphones pick up the frequencies differently and often amplify the high frequences out of proportion.

i imagine that is correct. do you think to "tinnitus-causing-to-some" sound will ever be "fixed?"

Inmotion doesn't seem to have it.... FWIW

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8 minutes ago, Greg Spalding said:

i imagine that is correct. do you think to "tinnitus-causing-to-some" sound will ever be "fixed?"

Inmotion doesn't seem to have it.... FWIW

I think the louder motor noise is just a by-product of the twice as powerful motor of the MSuper or ACM. I'm used to it now, and a real benefit is that people can hear me approaching from the rear.

I equate it to the louder sound eminating from a muscle car - it's a good thing ;-)

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1 hour ago, Marty Backe said:

I think the louder motor noise is just a by-product of the twice as powerful motor of the MSuper or ACM. I'm used to it now, and a real benefit is that people can hear me approaching from the rear.

I equate it to the louder sound eminating from a muscle car - it's a good thing ;-)

while i:

1.  do see you point

2.  am sure you are correct

i'm concerned about tinnitus or ringing in the ears that can result from prolonged exposure to high-frequency sounds. i don't want to have to wear ear plugs while riding (spent enough miles doing that on my motorcycles). as we get older our high frequency hearing fades and i don't want to accelerate that process in my life because of the sound of a wheel.  

i'd have to hear in person to know for sure

by the way.... a LOW-FREQUENCY RUMBLE from a muscle care IS a good thing but hard to equate to the 5K - 6K whine of one of these wheels

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25 minutes ago, Greg Spalding said:

while i:

1.  do see you point

2.  am sure you are correct

i'm concerned about tinnitus or ringing in the ears that can result from prolonged exposure to high-frequency sounds. i don't want to have to wear ear plugs while riding (spent enough miles doing that on my motorcycles). as we get older our high frequency hearing fades and i don't want to accelerate that process in my life because of the sound of a wheel.  

i'd have to hear in person to know for sure

by the way.... a LOW-FREQUENCY RUMBLE from a muscle care IS a good thing but hard to equate to the 5K - 6K whine of one of these wheels

Of course I was joking a bit regarding the car comparison :)

I really don't think the sound is that loud/penetrating to affect your hearing. Road noise and particular wind noise drowns out any sound from the wheel. It's only when you're not riding fast enough for wind to be a factor that you hear the motor (or if the video camera is positioned 8 inches away from the wheel).

Like you say, you're going to have to hear it up close to fully satisfy your concerns.

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2 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

Of course I was joking a bit regarding the car comparison :)

I really don't think the sound is that loud/penetrating to affect your hearing. Road noise and particular wind noise drowns out any sound from the wheel. It's only when you're not riding fast enough for wind to be a factor that you hear the motor (or if the video camera is positioned 8 inches away from the wheel).

Like you say, you're going to have to hear it up close to fully satisfy your concerns.

i'm glad you said those things

makes me happy to hear them

we all need hearing, of course.... wind noise at 20-25 mph without earplugs (even with a silent wheel) won't be a good thing for long-term high-frequency hearing either, i know

thanks, as always

37 minutes ago, Sketch said:

@Greg Spalding The Inmotion V8 does have a high pitched sound.  Not as bad as the Gotway ACM, but it's not completely quiet.

also, good to know

thank you, as well

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Imho a nice solution for this PWM noise of current GW/KS could be, if they implemented in firmware a variable PWM frequency. For low-load situations, like normal cruising on flat terrain a PWM frequency somewhere around 15-20kHz or even higher could be used. Just once the load rises (incline, acceleration) the PWM frequency shifts continously down again. Maybe with a "stick at low frequencies" option in the app for "heavy" riders knowing they'll make a mountain tour...

As positive side effect the rider gets immediate feedback of the "load situation" of the wheel by this changing frequency.

This also could be used as warning signal for the rider for overpower/overtemperature/overspeed situations - there the PWM frequency maybe could be shifted even below the "normal" 8kHz which should make the PWM noise much louder. Imho would be a nice feature for the MSuper V3 since it seems one gets no real distinguishable warning before a temperature cut-off ( http://forum.electricunicycle.org/topic/5541-msuper-v3-top-speed-crash-wrecked-shell/ ) if it shifts PWM frequency down to a very good hearable and loud frequency!

Could be also possible to modulate the PWM frequency to produce some sound for this "ultimate" warnings like the Bee Doo Bee Doo from the one minion in despicable me 2....

 

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9 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

I think the louder motor noise is just a by-product of the twice as powerful motor of the MSuper or ACM. I'm used to it now, and a real benefit is that people can hear me approaching from the rear.

I equate it to the louder sound eminating from a muscle car - it's a good thing ;-)

It has been said by Gotway themselves "it is the same motor". So it is an equal motor, the extra power comes from running the motor at 84V vs 67V. But by being the same motor it is incorrect to say it is a more powerfull motor.

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Funnily enough one of the only treatments for tinitus is constantly playing a high pitched noise the same frequency the tinitus. Not always successful but sometimes it works.

It works in the same way that everybody's brain blocks out road noise when you live in or near any sort of civilization. Gotta be waaaaaay out in the middle of nowhere to escape this noise completely. Its always there but your brain filters it out. If your ever curious to hear what it sounds like, wear some high grade sound cancelling headphones for 20 minutes. When you take them off you will hear a low rumbling for a while until your brain starts ignoring it again. 

In the same way when someone with tinitus listens to a frequency the same as their tinitus for long enough, in SOME lucky cases their brain will start to filter out the sound coming from the headphones as well as the tinitus. 

Most ear damage occurs from sudden loud noises. Eg.a gunshot. However long exposure to loud noise can be a problem if the sound is around 75db. Funnily enough this is about the same level as traffic noise at street level.

I'd be interested if someone could show a the db reading of the msuper3. I can do it if you are happy to wait I get my wheel. If it is high enough you might want to wear earplugs when riding otherwise I probably wouldn't bother. Overtime you will either get used to hearing it or your brain may learn to block it out completely. If your really really lucky you might even cure your tinitus if it's the right frequency. Lol.

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16 minutes ago, 16bitSprite said:

... However long exposure to loud noise can be a problem if the sound is around 65db. Funnily enough this is about the same level as traffic noise at street level.

I'd be interested if someone could show a the db reading of the msuper3. I can do it if you are happy to wait I get my wheel. If it is high enough you might want to wear earplugs when riding otherwise I probably wouldn't bother. Overtime you will either get used to hearing it or your brain may learn to block it out completely. If your really really lucky you might even cure your tinitus if it's the right frequency. Lol.

You have some "professional" loudness measurement device?

Which wheel do you have now? And which wheels could you borrow/access for measurements?

Can you/one also measure wheels "under load" - i.e. driving by the measurement device up an incline?

Would be interesting to know some "real" loudness values of common wheels...

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2 hours ago, Chriull said:

Imho a nice solution for this PWM noise of current GW/KS could be, if they implemented in firmware a variable PWM frequency. For low-load situations, like normal cruising on flat terrain a PWM frequency somewhere around 15-20kHz or even higher could be used. Just once the load rises (incline, acceleration) the PWM frequency shifts continously down again. Maybe with a "stick at low frequencies" option in the app for "heavy" riders knowing they'll make a mountain tour...

As positive side effect the rider gets immediate feedback of the "load situation" of the wheel by this changing frequency.

This also could be used as warning signal for the rider for overpower/overtemperature/overspeed situations - there the PWM frequency maybe could be shifted even below the "normal" 8kHz which should make the PWM noise much louder. Imho would be a nice feature for the MSuper V3 since it seems one gets no real distinguishable warning before a temperature cut-off ( http://forum.electricunicycle.org/topic/5541-msuper-v3-top-speed-crash-wrecked-shell/ ) if it shifts PWM frequency down to a very good hearable and loud frequency!

Could be also possible to modulate the PWM frequency to produce some sound for this "ultimate" warnings like the Bee Doo Bee Doo from the one minion in despicable me 2....

 

Some wonderful thoughts there and it would be fantastic if they could be implemented

thanks for posting that here

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4 hours ago, Chriull said:

You have some "professional" loudness measurement device?

Which wheel do you have now? And which wheels could you borrow/access for measurements?

Can you/one also measure wheels "under load" - i.e. driving by the measurement device up an incline?

Would be interesting to know some "real" loudness values of common wheels...

Not a professional measuring device. Just a phone app. For the frequencies in question it should give a pretty good estimate. I have compared the phone app to a professional reader looking at traffic noise and the measurement came up the same. If anyone out there has a pro device I'd go with that over any readings I provide with a phone app.

As for my wheel, I've only been riding for a year. I've been using a cheap generic 300watt wheel called a fotowelt. Cost me $300 AUD from ebay but it got me started.  The Msuper will be the first decent wheel ill have owned when it arrives. EUCs are pretty rare here in my home town of Adelaide. I've never met anyone else who has one so I will have a total of two that I will have access to.

 

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5 hours ago, 16bitSprite said:

Funnily enough one of the only treatments for tinitus is constantly playing a high pitched noise the same frequency the tinitus. Not always successful but sometimes it works.

It works in the same way that everybody's brain blocks out road noise when you live in or near any sort of civilization. Gotta be waaaaaay out in the middle of nowhere to escape this noise completely. Its always there but your brain filters it out. If your ever curious to hear what it sounds like, wear some high grade sound cancelling headphones for 20 minutes. When you take them off you will hear a low rumbling for a while until your brain starts ignoring it again. 

In the same way when someone with tinitus listens to a frequency the same as their tinitus for long enough, in SOME lucky cases their brain will start to filter out the sound coming from the headphones as well as the tinitus. 

Most ear damage occurs from sudden loud noises. Eg.a gunshot. However long exposure to loud noise can be a problem if the sound is around 75db. Funnily enough this is about the same level as traffic noise at street level.

I'd be interested if someone could show a the db reading of the msuper3. I can do it if you are happy to wait I get my wheel. If it is high enough you might want to wear earplugs when riding otherwise I probably wouldn't bother. Overtime you will either get used to hearing it or your brain may learn to block it out completely. If your really really lucky you might even cure your tinitus if it's the right frequency. Lol.

i appreciate your thoughts on the matter

as a pediatrician, without high frequency hearing my job would be far more difficult.... in many ways (as would all of our lives, of course)

i believe someone said the whine was 5,000 Hz

which makes me wonder IF the 84 volt model IS the same motor then that whine might be higher than 5,000 Hz from the 67.2 volt model. THAT only makes sense to me

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6 hours ago, checho said:

It has been said by Gotway themselves "it is the same motor". So it is an equal motor, the extra power comes from running the motor at 84V vs 67V. But by being the same motor it is incorrect to say it is a more powerfull motor.

My choice of words probably could have been better. I was referring to the difference between the Gotway wheels and the Inmotion wheel, where the original concern was raised. Not the difference between 84 & 67 Gotway's.

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12 hours ago, Sketch said:

@Greg Spalding The Inmotion V8 does have a high pitched sound.  Not as bad as the Gotway ACM, but it's not completely quiet.

Don't fully agree here.

Yes, the V8 is not dead quiet, but the noise heard while riding the V8 is not a high pitched PWM noise, ala KingSong / Gotway, as you can recreate the same noise while rolling the powered off V8 around. The noise is more mechanical, and not high-pitched.

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31 minutes ago, houseofjob said:

Don't fully agree here.

Yes, the V8 is not dead quiet, but the noise heard while riding the V8 is not a high pitched PWM noise, ala KingSong / Gotway, as you can recreate the same noise while rolling the powered off V8 around. The noise is more mechanical, and not high-pitched.

that becomes even more interesting

i wonder what is different "under the hood" of the Inmotion which causes such a mechanical noise without power?

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