What is your perception of the EUC community?

[mtl]

2 hours ago, Cerbera said:

And that's been going on for quite some time as well - I saw that happen in an episode of Columbo the other day ! William Shatner makes an excellent villain.

Just watched the episode where he plays Lt. Lucerne. Very interesting character switching between his (in-show) stage vs. real personas. I've heard Shatner can be that way in real life, acting as if he *is* James T. Kirk. Great episode. Maybe they wrote it just for him? (Sorry for the drift off topic.)

[Mono]

On 2/15/2024 at 7:01 PM, Robse said:

No 

Pretty sure yes where I live. I don't know for the Florida, do you? I was just checking and reading: "In most states, the law requires cyclists to ride no more than two abreast."

On 2/15/2024 at 7:01 PM, Robse said:

But as soon as they put on their spandex pants, any sense and consciousness for the letter of the law evaporates.

OT:

Last year, one of the spandex lunatics was killed in a traffic accident right here in the neighborhood (RIP)  They came riding up a hill in a sharp right turn, 5 men next to each other, using both lanes.  Then, strangely enough, an oncoming car came around the corner...

Nice job, ridiculing a traffic fatality victim.

Edited March 18 by Mono

[Robse]

5 minutes ago, Mono said:

Pretty sure yes where I live. I don't know for the Florida, do you? I was just checking and reading: "In most states, the law requires cyclists to ride no more than two abreast."

Nice job, ridiculing a traffic fatality victim.

3 is more than 2 - agree on that? Blocking the lane is not ok.

Now that you bring it up i guess i'll have to tell the rest of the story. I ride approx. 10,000 km per year by bicycle.  I was actually part of the group of cyclists that ended up in an accident.  But I had given up riding with them months before precisely because they drove like idiots.  No one tries to ridicule a traffic accident.  Nothing more than to point out that you mostly end up getting what you deserve.  So please don't tell me anything about a nice job, it is not at all appropriate here.

 

[novazeus]

• Persons riding bicycles upon a roadway shall not ride more than two abreast except on paths or parts of roadways set aside for the exclusive use of bicycles. Persons riding two abreast shall not impede traffic when traveling at less than the normal speed of traffic at the time and place and under the conditions existing, and shall ride within a single lane. (see Impeding Traffic Explained in the left tab menu)

• https://floridabicycle.org/bicycle-traffic-law

[Planemo]

@Cerbera I think if we get the chance we should hook up sometime! Sounds like you ride the same as me and my group. Pretty much everything you said rings true. The only point I will quote is the below, and I only do so not to criticise, but to bring up a point which helps keeps me grounded when riding:

16 hours ago, Cerbera said:

I feel bad about these encounters, but not because I think I am doing anything wrong

Thats just the problem, we are. We are riding illegally and no matter how considerate we are, we are doing something we shouldn't be doing and the public know that. With that in mind, my mantra when riding is that everyone takes precedence over me which means I yield to everyone and everything and do my utmost not to shock/scare/wind people up (and I suspect you do too). Of course this doesn't mean there still isn't the odd 'thats illegal!' remark but it's the best I can do bar not riding at all. And FWIW, I feel bad too. If I get even just one negative comment I take it personally and reflect on whether I should have done something different/better (and we discuss it in our group too as often other riders will have heard/seen something) but invariably we agree that we were as considerate as possible and sometimes theres just no pleasing some people!

[Cerbera]

On 2/16/2024 at 6:25 AM, Planemo said:

Thats just the problem, we are. We are riding illegally and no matter how considerate we are, we are doing something we shouldn't be doing and the public know that.

That sad fact makes me quite angry if I allow it to. I have zero desire to be a lawbreaker, but I find it very hard to obey laws that make no sense, have been put in place without proper assessment of the machines or consultation with riders, where regulators have simply taken the lazy, easy option of nation-wide ban rather than doing what their job SHOULD be, which is to safely facilitate the things humans want to do. I pay my road tax, and all the time I am out on my wheel I am not in the car, but still feel like I have paid to be on the road if that is the safest place for me at the time ! I pay my council tax too, so I'd like some freedom to actually use the pavements and cycleways I also contribute to ! And of course the government will allow me to HAVE the machine, and will happily take 20% on the sale of it in the first place + god knows how much on top in bullshit import fees. 

Not only that, but I would have insurance the very first day it became available, but this stupid, blinkered, backwards-facing, corruptable, authoritarian, archaic lawmaking and regulations system prevents anyone selling it to me as much as it tries to prevent me riding at all. Hopeless.

This is a perfectly sensible, reasonable, eco-friendly way to get around, and it annoys me that the right people won't acknowledge the thousands of people doing it safely, successfully and considerately, every day. It is not criminal behaviour, or in any way unreasonable to want to ride these (sensibly) where there are other people. One of their main advantages is just how good they are for, and how much less intrusive than a bike they are for riding slowly amongst other people ! And if they can be taken into shops there shouldn't be problems with thefts either - I don't know why these wretched people remain blind to all the obvious advantages EUCs offer. 

And I have to stop typing / thinking about it now, before my zen equanimity is further peturbed !

Edited March 1 by Cerbera

[Robse]

23 minutes ago, Cerbera said:

stupid, blinkered, backwards-facing, corruptable, authoritarian, archaic lawmaking and regulations system

Vogons

[Cerbera]

41 minutes ago, Robse said:

Vogons

I know - it is on that level - in the UK we are banned under a law instantiated in the 1800's to prevent people building steam engines in their back gardens ! Proper lunacy.

[Mono]

12 hours ago, Robse said:

3 is more than 2 - agree on that? Blocking the lane is not ok.

Blocking a lane is OK. It is totally unsafe to overtake 2 cyclists using the same lane in which they are cycling. Any accident resulting from such an action is 100% the fault of the overtaker. 

12 hours ago, Robse said:

Now that you bring it up i guess i'll have to tell the rest of the story. I ride approx. 10,000 km per year by bicycle.  I was actually part of the group of cyclists that ended up in an accident.  But I had given up riding with them months before precisely because they drove like idiots.  No one tries to ridicule a traffic accident.

well, then you did even without trying

12 hours ago, Robse said:

  Nothing more than to point out that you mostly end up getting what you deserve.

here we go again, even without trying. You are saying these cyclists deserved to be killed for, basically, abiding by the law. Even if they didn't abide by the law, then you are saying these cyclists deserved the death penalty for a traffic infraction where all the physical damage was done by a car of another person. I must say, this pisses me off (no worries, I am fine).

[Robse]

7 minutes ago, Mono said:

well, then you did even without trying

here we go again, even without trying. You are saying these cyclists deserved to be killed for, basically, abiding by the law. Even if they didn't abide by the law, then you are saying these cyclists deserved the death penalty for a traffic infraction where all the physical damage was done by a car of another person. I must say, this pisses me off (no worries, I am fine).

The only thing I can deduce from this little disputation is that we do not have the same perception of the meaning of the written word. Maybe because of different backgrounds or mood or something else entirely. Apart from that, I still think that the atmosphere in here is nice and that it should stay this way, so now I say goodbye. No winners, no losers and the thread can continue in the right direction.

[techyiam]

1 minute ago, Mono said:

Even if they didn't abide by the law, then you are saying these cyclists deserved the death penalty for a traffic infraction where all the physical damage was done by a car of another person.

If a cyclist or a pedestrian blindly rushes into traffic flow without due care or against traffic laws to mitigate risks, and they are maimed or killed, it is because they took actions that greatly increased the odds of them getting killed or hurt.

The word "deserve" can mean that it is inevitable that the likelihood of something tragic will happen.

It is amazing how some people think.

One local example is a tragedy that occurred on a particular hiking trail up a mountain during the winter months. In addition to many signs, there were extra effort to put out avalanche warnings on the radio and TV and other means. Also, that trail is always closed during the winter months anyways. And the entrance to the trail is blocked off. Incidentally, I had gone up this trail during the winter month, but certainly not while there is an avalanche warning in effect. I ride motorcycles, so I assess risks constantly and mitigate them.

In any case, some people went up anyway, and were killed by a avalanche. The victims families sued.

It is not that those who died deserve to die because they ignore some warnings. It is because they exposed themselves to crazy dangerous risks.

For motorcycling, getting killed at an intersection by a left-turning car is extremely high. A motorcyclist would be doing nothing wrong going through the green light. Yet, the likelihood of getting kill or hit is extremely high. So do motorcyclists deserve to died even when they obey all traffic laws. I don't ride through intersections without assessing the situation for each one. I don't ride a motorcycle like how I drive a car. The statistics are there. And over the decades, I have seen plenty of reasons why.

Based on what I have observed, if motorists don't go out of their way to save cyclists, there would be many, many more accidents. I ride bicycles too, but I don't expect everybody would yield for me.

I have to say, some cyclists are highly skilled and experienced. And some of these riders could be in their 50's or even 60's. They are in good shape. But one day, somebody is going to get hit, at least based on what I have seen and am still seeing.

 

[Mono]

On 2/16/2024 at 1:50 PM, techyiam said:

If a cyclist or a pedestrian blindly rushes into traffic flow without due care or against traffic laws to mitigate risks, and they are maimed or killed, it is because they took actions that greatly increased the odds of them getting killed or hurt.

The word "deserve" can mean that it is inevitable that the likelihood of something tragic will happen.

Fine, but we were talking about cyclists riding side-by-side on a road where cyclists are allowed to ride, not about "cyclists blindly rushing into traffic flow", right? Just to add some context: a common recommendation for cyclists is to not ride close to the side of the road thereby preventing dangerous squeeze overtakes by cars. I can't assess the value of this recommendation, it doesn't seem obvious to me either way, I can however say that I have heard this recommendation many times.

In your opinion and your understanding of the word "deserve", cyclists deserve to die when they ride legally side-by-side? Or they only deserve to die when this is not legal?

In your opinion and your understanding of the word "deserve", the EUC rider who recently died by smashing into the guard rail of a trail in Australia deserved to die too?

[novazeus]

4 minutes ago, Mono said:

Just to add some context: a common recommendation for cyclists is to not ride close to the side of the road thereby preventing dangerous squeeze overtakes by cars

i've had cars try to share the lane with me when i was on my hd road king.

not legal at all. 

but unfortunately there's the saying, "dead right" and u could also say "injured right".

ur next of kin might get a settlement, and u might get ur medical bills paid and some cash, but ur still getting hurt. 

if i still rode motorcycles, and cops know this, because i use to ride with them, u use the speed to find "clean air", space where there are no cars and trucks on the road. i used interstates as much as possible to prevent the deadly no turn signal left turn scenario and the pull out in front of u scenario. if u didn't have some near death or crash avoidance situation, it was a pleasant ride, but i always geared up and prepared for the worst, the best i could, and i won, because i'm not riding motorcycles anymore in the wild and i'm still alive. 

eucs/wheels don't have enough speed to find clean air and aren't stable enough for everyday road conditions. 

in my perfect utopia micromobility community i'm trying to build here, separation of cagers from everyone else is my priority. i'll be saving lives thru common sense design. that is severely lacking in govt circles.

[xiiijojjo]

One notable change in the community from when I joined in 2017, is that speed demons have become the norm. We used to be a niche within a niche, and were so rare that we didn't even get any backlash for breaking EUC speed records, riding beeps etc. All we got was concerned advise. 

I feel like there are two camps in the community today.

1: The "old grandpas" who were the original members of the community who understands the dangers of riding and have seen all the falls and deaths, and so many of them have become pro-regulation and anti-speed

2: The fastest growing part the of the community right now are the speed demons, and no amount of the grandpas trying to shame these guys, warning them that their YouTube videos could have unicycles criminalized, and that the community will suffer for their individual actions, will change anything.

This group will keep growing even if we already reached the theoretical top-speed of EUC which I doubt we have, and so this group and their online/offline public visibility will keep increasing to the point where they unofficially represent the EUC community, at least to the media/public. 

I find myself somewhere in middle.. I'm one of the old farts yappin' about protective gear and wearing helmets any chance I get, and I'm not an advocate for beginners driving around on public roads/bicycle lanes before they get at least 100-200km of practice etc.. But then on the other hand I've been a speed demon since there was only a handful of us, I must have been one of few people alive to push a Msuper V3 to 45km/h before it cutting out on me, wearing 0 protective gear, on the coarsest of asphalt no less... I had a few other nasty crashes and started taking gear and riding safety into account and started advocating for it on the forum, and still do to some extend. 

But as the years have progressed and speeds have increased I find myself identifying less and less with the "grandpas", and now believe the safest unicycle theoretically possible is one with no speed-limit = no way to over-lean.
The toothpaste's outta the tube already, no getting it back in. EUC already go 60mph+ and there is no going back, no matter what laws change regarding EUC in different countries, so let's build one so powerful to the point where you can't out-lean the wind resistance. 

Edited February 24 by xiiijojjo

[Glock43x]

like riders on crotch rockets.. Some think they're Rossi. EUC is becoming like that too. I've never gone over 25mph. I ride it for fun.  IF I want speed, I will jump on the R1. Even then, I still respect the speed limit.  I'm gonna get the Lynx this spring, but will still just cruise around. I just want a good euc with good suspension and range.  Don't care for speed.. i honestly would not ride with a group of EUC riders who wanna do like 40mph on a trail.. Same reason, I always ride my R1 alone..

Edited March 1 by Glock43x

[goatman]

im a loner and a commuter, Xiiijojjo nailed it as far as im concerned, you need the speed and power to be safe at times to get away from traffic, if 65 or 70 km/h  is needed to do it then so be it, i dont share a lane, i take the lane and other times to use cars as blockers when going through intersections while in the bike lane  but i spend the majority of my time at about 25 mph/42 km/h out of traffic in bike lanes. my worst injury was when my ninebot one cut out doing 3 mph and slammed my shoulder into the asphalt, it was screwed for 6 months. only been riding 2 years, got 30,000 km's traveled on euc's probably another 30,000 km's on 80 km/h ebikes and the way i see it is if the cops had a problem with my riding style and speeds they wouldve seized my ebikes and euc's many many times already, the amount of police in my area is heavy with a major police precinct right around the corner

if eucs/ebikes couldnt go faster than 25 mph id consider them unsafe and useless as a means for commuting and id just drive instead but im already thinking of scrapping the euc's because its cheaper for me to just drive and more convenient. my Master cost me 5 grand and i wont get 2 years out of it, 3rd and last set of bearings/tires/tubes before retiring it at 20,000 km's and im not going to pay 6 grand for a new lynx or sherman s or ex30. 

[litewave]

On 2/24/2024 at 11:30 AM, xiiijojjo said:

One notable change in the community from when I joined in 2017, is that speed demons have become the norm. We used to be a niche within a niche, and were so rare that we didn't even get any backlash for breaking EUC speed records, riding beeps etc. All we got was concerned advise. 

I feel like there are two camps in the community today.

1: The "old grandpas" who were the original members of the community who understands the dangers of riding and have seen all the falls and deaths, and so many of them have become pro-regulation and anti-speed

2: The fastest growing part the of the community right now are the speed demons, and no amount of the grandpas trying to shame these guys, warning them that their YouTube videos could have unicycles criminalized, and that the community will suffer for their individual actions, will change anything.

This group will keep growing even if we already reached the theoretical top-speed of EUC which I doubt we have, and so this group and their online/offline public visibility will keep increasing to the point where they unofficially represent the EUC community, at least to the media/public. 

I find myself somewhere in middle.. I'm one of the old farts yappin' about protective gear and wearing helmets any chance I get, and I'm not an advocate for beginners driving around on public roads/bicycle lanes before they get at least 100-200km of practice etc.. But then on the other hand I've been a speed demon since there was only a handful of us, I must have been one of few people alive to push a Msuper V3 to 45km/h before it cutting out on me, wearing 0 protective gear, on the coarsest of asphalt no less... I had a few other nasty crashes and started taking gear and riding safety into account and started advocating for it on the forum, and still do to some extend. 

But as the years have progressed and speeds have increased I find myself identifying less and less with the "grandpas", and now believe the safest unicycle theoretically possible is one with no speed-limit = no way to over-lean.
The toothpaste's outta the tube already, no getting it back in. EUC already go 60mph+ and there is no going back, no matter what laws change regarding EUC in different countries, so let's build one so powerful to the point where you can't out-lean the wind resistance. 

 

Since you joined in 2017, are you an old grandpa, with your old-skool RS19?   It isn't about age, anyway, it's about years of experience.

Though I have been riding quite a long time (8 years), I still lust for the newest, latest, greatest, and fastest, and I think a large portion of that grandpa/grandma group does, too!

For me, there is a third category: innovation fatigue - the point where the rate of change is too much to keep up with. This is a temporary state, where one is forced to wait longer to buy a new wheel, but really, really wants to hit the BUY button on that new, superfast wheel.  

[litewave]

Also, from what I have observed, a large portion of that supercritical "grandpa" group are reformed "speed demons" who ate pavement, met God, and converted to wannabe Yodas overnight.

[xiiijojjo]

2 hours ago, litewave said:

 

Since you joined in 2017, are you an old grandpa, with your old-skool RS19?  

Wish I still had it but the M50T cells claimed it in a fire..

 

2 hours ago, litewave said:

For me, there is a third category: innovation fatigue - the point where the rate of change is too much to keep up with. This is a temporary state, where one is forced to wait longer to buy a new wheel, but really, really wants to hit the BUY button on that new, superfast wheel.  

Yeah I'm currently waiting and waiting, with how expensive these wheels are getting I'd rather wait another 6 months than get something right now. 151-168V are still new, and I'm not paying 4k+ to test their first few batches.

I remember a time when I had memorized all EUC models from all the brands, and their order of release... Thanks for ruining that Gotway... I wouldn't even mind if the majority of their products made sense in the market, but they don't.. Remember the X-men? 

[Nostris]

What a great post, intelligent and sympathetic..just like the Old Days!😂. I’m British but live in Italy…I married one, so can’t escape! I started riding back in 2020 and was looking at the forums about a year previously, trying to see what it was all about.  I ride only for pleasure and well-being..I don’t ride with any one else, don’t..and wouldn’t do any group rides…besides, I’ve only ever seen one EUC in Italy, and was in a car at the time. It’s very true how the forum has changed as more people have got involved. The level of shared information on all subjects has grown massively, so the forum has become a great font of knowledge. Equally the number of argumentative, aggressive narcissists has also grown massively in the last few years, particularly amongst exhibitionist, ‘Look at Mee’, bragging speed kings. Frankly, some of these types come across as being perfect examples of the Dunning Kruger syndrome..thinking they are so smart, as they publicly masturbate their egos, while actually appearing to be dim witted, thoughtless and irresponsible. This behaviour seems to vary from nationality to nationality, but as has been said before, it is by the behaviour of these people that we will all be judged by the public, the authorities and the law makers. I hope eventually these people will settle down or leave riding EUCs for the next greatest thing on the horizon. Myself, I ride as others have said, in a way that is as least confrontational as possible, particularly here where there are so few riders anyway…I would like riding an EUC to become as acceptable as riding a bicycle..

[RooEUC]

I don't ride EUCs with other people, so I'm sort of in my own world when I ride and that's how I love to do it.  But my perception of the EUC community after 7 years as a forum member is based on two things:  What I see on this forum and what I see on Youtube.  On this forum I see that the majority of riders are intelligent, polite and interested in technology.  There are a few jokers and a few people who aren't very bright, but it's a minority.  This is a far more civil community than Reddit, for example.

As for EUCers on Youtube, that's a mix for me.  There are some really great, responsible and intelligent people promoting the hobby.  And there are some people who ruin it.  I see a lot of EUC Youtubers riding dangerously in traffic, ignoring the road laws, putting themselves and others at risk. When they go out in big group rides, especially at night, it's chaos and I really don't like what they are doing.  They are behaving in ways that would increase the probability of EUCs getting officially banned in more places.  As EUCs have become bigger, heavier and faster they seem to have attracted a new generation of riders, similar to the guys that "motovlog" and pop wheelies every chance they can and ride in big groups with a certain kind of attitude as if they don't need to respect laws or other road users.

There's also a surprising amount of naivety from some newer riders who want the fastest wheels.  I will never ride an EUC faster than 30kph, because this technology can and probably will eventually cut out and drop me.  I have broken bones and torn ligaments in non-EUC accidents and I just cannot believe how many people are willing to risk permanent disability doing 80kph along streets, amid traffic on a self balancing device.  Motorcycles, cars, bikes etc. all come with risks of course, but EUCs are special in that on top of all the same risks that bikes have, they require a complex combination of hardware and software to be working perfectly all the time, just to stay up. And if a mosfet blows or there's a bad cell, a bad motherboard, a bad BMS etc. they immediately slam you down into the ground, under a bus or into a railing and there's nothing you can do about it.  And yet some people want even more speed.  Experience brings wisdom and wisdom tends to bring less desire for speed.  If you ask those who have broken both wrists simultaneously because of an EUC cut-out, most will say they either don't ride them anymore or they ride them more slowly and never stop worrying about a cut-out.

Edited March 19 by RooEUC