Inmotions new CEO is bringing the compagny down?

[Bob Yan]

22 hours ago, UniVehje said:

To be clear, I didn't say anything like that. I agree with what you wrote and pointed out IM made big mistakes (probably, from my point of view without knowing the details from inside) under Bob's leadership. And just because the new CEO is bad (allegedly, no evidence so far) doesn't mean they didn't need any changes. I agree that I would like to see a rider as a CEO but that's not enough. 

But I did say that Bob's leaked plan was good (modular design, new wheels coming in all sizes etc. what was discussed last year here). But it's also very possible that Bob gambled all the resources for R&D on two new wheels that were in wrong categories and now they don't have the funds the complete the plan. Maybe they should have started with a good all-arounder in 14" rim category and then utilise the modular design to make 12" and 16" wheels later. And V11F was a missed opportunity, that's what people wanted. @Bob Yan care to elaborate here? 

Also agree that we cannot forget all the vendors not focusing on EUC market. If I ever see EUCs sold on "normal" stores, they're always Inmotions. I think they still have a large market for their older designs even though V13 and V14 are probably not selling as much as they hoped. 

It's a fact that the V13 and V14 was not going as good as expected, and I were there, so obliviously I should be the one who should take the biggest responsibilities for those failures.  I'm not looking for excuses, but I have to say, the shareholder and business organization structure is not a normal mindset can imagine, I can't see anyone can make a significant change with fundamental factors like current ones. 

 

[Bob Yan]

23 hours ago, Mono said:

@WheelGoodTime@UniVehje, hasn't the planning and development that lead to the alleged InMotion misery taken place under the lead of Bob Yan? If he didn't manage to steer things in the alleged right direction but all spiraled downwards (allegedly) when he was leading the company, I can't quite see how anyone should be convinced that he is the right person to convert the downward spiral now. I don't quite understand how you can say "all these new wheels InMotion developed are uncompetitive shelf warmers but the CEO did an awesome job", this makes zero sense to me.

I suspect you don't talk about vendors in Russia, Asia or the EU? What's your information on the global sales numbers of the V8 line?

You're right. The results were not good when I led INMOTION team. It's a pity that I didn't have full control of the company even I were CEO at that time, that's why I left and created my own start-up: PIDZOOM, a dedicated producer of PEV accessories.  It's a small business now, but I have full control of it, and I've been really enjoying the journey during the past few months.  It feels great to have the right to do things that I think are right.  BTW, There'll be interesting accessories coming out from us regularly down the road. 

 

 

[Mono]

20 minutes ago, Bob Yan said:

the shareholder and business organization structure is not a normal mindset can imagine, I can't see anyone can make a significant change with fundamental factors like current ones. 

So the first and main objective of the CEO should be to change the organization structure such that it works effectively, I guess.

[Bob Yan]

2 minutes ago, Mono said:

So the first and main objective of the CEO should be to change the organization structure such that it works effectively, I guess.

Haha, How should I describe this?   What I'm trying to say is, these fundamental things are beyond the capability of a CEO, it's more of the shareholder's mindset and way of handling business. 

[Mono]

1 hour ago, Bob Yan said:

You're right. The results were not good when I led INMOTION team. It's a pity that I didn't have full control of the company even I were CEO at that time, that's why I left and created my own start-up: PIDZOOM, a dedicated producer of PEV accessories.  It's a small business now, but I have full control of it, and I've been really enjoying the journey during the past few months.  It feels great to have the right to do things that I think are right.  BTW, There'll be interesting accessories coming out from us regularly down the road. 

I saw that, I like the charger enhancer  Unfortunately, I couldn't find a concise description of its functionality what can trigger the charging to stop (in particular the current trigger was not clear to me and, I suspect, others).

Edited February 6 by Mono

[UniVehje]

41 minutes ago, Bob Yan said:

Haha, How should I describe this?   What I'm trying to say is, these fundamental things are beyond the capability of a CEO, it's more of the shareholder's mindset and way of handling business. 

Thanks for the clarification. Sounds like the investors didn't give full trust to their CEO and wanted to micromanage things. A typical mistake some companies make. Too many people making decisions. If they don't trust the CEO to fully lead the company, they should hire another one or do it themselves. This doesn't sound good for future of InMotion. They are effectively without leadership and vision. I guess now they have a CEO that only tries to gather easy profits for the shareholders. Almost sounds like they should focus on making scooters and sell the EUC side of it to another company. I actually think someone should make them an offer for the EUC business. It would be a very good platform to make some really nice wheels.

[dimos15]

On 2/6/2024 at 2:53 PM, Bob Yan said:

You're right. The results were not good when I led INMOTION team. It's a pity that I didn't have full control of the company even I were CEO at that time, that's why I left and created my own start-up: PIDZOOM, a dedicated producer of PEV accessories.  It's a small business now, but I have full control of it, and I've been really enjoying the journey during the past few months.  It feels great to have the right to do things that I think are right.  BTW, There'll be interesting accessories coming out from us regularly down the road. 

 

 

In my opinion the v13 is the most reliable euc on the market . The controller is so much better(design wise) compared to any other euc .

Edited February 7 by dimos15

[Mono]

2 hours ago, dimos15 said:

In my opinion the v13 is the most reliable euc on the market . The controller is so much better(design wise) compared to any other euc .

Reliability is ultimately decided by frequency of failure, not by cleaness of design.

[dimos15]

3 hours ago, Mono said:

frequency of failure

if you have the numbers feel free to post them below

 

Edited February 7 by dimos15

[ORDO NOVUS]

3 hours ago, dimos15 said:

if you have the numbers feel free to post them below

 

there were tons of v13 board failures  in the world.

 

If your girl cheat with you 3 times - is there any  chance you should forgive her? There is a game of pretending here, i ll leave some quotes from pidzoom site that is for some reason advertised here without any cause.

 

1)"Founded in August 2023 by Bob Yan, a distinguished veteran in the PEV industry" -

collins dictionary says "If you describe a person or their work as distinguished, you mean that they have been very successful in their career and have a good reputation". 3 failures of 3 tries doesnt mean distinguished.

 

2)"Bob Yan, a dedicated PEV enthusiast himself, is not just a leader in the industry but also a rider who understands the unique needs of the PEV community. With a history of developing iconic products that riders adore" - oh really? leader in the industry is that who fails 3 of 3 times? and understands  unique needs? what products from that 3 were iconic staying on dealers discount shelf?

3)Innovative - really? stealing from hou ningning idea of repacked Huawei charger is innovative ok then, maybe it is same innovation like v14 copied from other wheels

 

dont you see this man is trying to fool you just to promote himself? you cant seat on two chairs simultaneously - calling management bad guys and staying and failing 3 consecutive models. and even after departure saying that you agree to come back.

 

either they are bad guys and every male that respect himself will have no deals with such peopple, or you are just fooling around each and every man trying to extract profits

[dimos15]

1 hour ago, ORDO NOVUS said:

Innovative - really?

The v13 was the first wheel with potted batteries, first wheel with smart bms, first wheel with 200V mosfets

Bob Yan really made this industry better. Even gotway wheels have smart bms nowadays..

1 hour ago, ORDO NOVUS said:

there were tons of v13 board failures  in the world.

press x to doubt.. the pcb design is miles better compared to the other euc controllers. ofc no one is perfect..

[techyiam]

1 hour ago, dimos15 said:

The v13 was the first wheel with potted batteries, first wheel with smart bms, first wheel with 200V mosfets

Nope.

The Kingsong S20/S22 had a smart BMS earlier.

[daniel1234]

INmotion Product proposition  - new V10F Super.

- Same form factor / frame.

- v12 motor on better rim with 90/90-12 tyre

- 50s cells with smart BMS

- Better pedals - kingsong 16s style tall troley handle.

- Customizable color stickers led nonsense e.t.c.

 

[Jason McNeil]

4 hours ago, daniel1234 said:

INmotion Product proposition  - new V10F Super.

- Same form factor / frame.

- v12 motor on better rim with 90/90-12 tyre

- 50s cells with smart BMS

- Better pedals - kingsong 16s style tall troley handle.

- Customizable color stickers led nonsense e.t.c.

A good idea. It would need a Raptor controller, the V10F's board is a feeble thing. With the V12 & V12 PRO on the horizon, there's already a lot of capability overlap in their lineup.  

[Mono]

15 hours ago, dimos15 said:

if you have the numbers feel free to post them below

Sure, thanks letting me do that. IIRC, we have some failure numbers by Ecodrift from before 2020 posted in the thread linked below, not including the V13, obviously. I don't have the numbers in my head and don't have numbers for the V13, that's why I didn't make claims about which brand or model is the most reliable and that's why you shouldn't either, unless you have the numbers. It's good to have the information that the motherboard design is clean, but it's not good to draw a direct conclusion of reliability from this information.

 

[Planemo]

23 hours ago, dimos15 said:

In my opinion the v13 is the most reliable euc on the market . The controller is so much better(design wise) compared to any other euc .

Just out of interest, can you explain what makes it cleaner than the mos board on (for example) the EX30?

[Mono]

15 hours ago, ORDO NOVUS said:

either they are bad guys and every male that respect himself will have no deals with such peopple, or you are just fooling around each and every man trying to extract profits

I am sure there are other possibilities too, in particular more charitable readings of the events. Also, people have various approaches to self-respect and I don't know what sex or gender has to do with this.

13 hours ago, dimos15 said:

Bob Yan really made this industry better. Even gotway wheels have smart bms nowadays.

Q1: How would you know whether Bob had any influence on Gotway wheels? Q2: Do you have specific information on whether Bob was the driving force for introducing smart BMS at InMotion?

Edited February 8 by Mono

[Funky]

5 hours ago, daniel1234 said:

INmotion Product proposition  - new V10F Super.

- Same form factor / frame.

- v12 motor on better rim with 90/90-12 tyre

- 50s cells with smart BMS

- Better pedals - kingsong 16s style tall troley handle.

- Customizable color stickers led nonsense e.t.c.

 

1 hour ago, Jason McNeil said:

A good idea. It would need a Raptor controller, the V10F's board is a feeble thing. With the V12 & V12 PRO on the horizon, there's already a lot of capability overlap in their lineup.  

End result: You will have V12 with Raptor controller.... Be better! Make something better!

 

I like the idea of 90/90-12 tire.. But if you want V12 performance - end result will be more or less closer to V12 not V10.. In size and in weight it will be V12. (Maybe even closer to V14.)

Why not try to build a 90/90-12 on V8 size.. Beefing that thing up would result in V10 at the end.  Start small and go big.

Around ~1000Wh would be "good enough" battery size for smaller wheel. And with Raptor controller it could easily go 35mph..(maybe even 40mph) Plenty speed for small wheel. And with around 30-50 miles range also plenty. (If one needs more range - buy bigger wheel.. Small wheel should not have big ranges in first place. People buy them for their size and easy of transporting around while being powered off.)

Edited February 8 by Funky

[daniel1234]

17 hours ago, Funky said:

End result: You will have V12 with Raptor controller.... Be better! Make something better!

 

I didn't like chunkiness of V12 (30kg) - when compared to V10F(20kg) for city commutes -> I would pick v10f. I am still doing daily commutes on s18 (23kg with suspension). Even after I get lynx I will not use it for going to work and back (12 km per day), because of stairs everywhere in my city. I am not able to carry more than 25 kg in one hand and go up stairs.

More rubber and taller tyre would make ride more comfortable without suspension.
I think is time for removable battery, to make long rides possible via fast swap (under 1000Wh). 24s3P from 21700 can be around 7 kg, and with proper cells can deliver 3-5C (3-5 KW).

 

[techyiam]

30 minutes ago, daniel1234 said:

More rubber and taller tyre would make ride more comfortable without suspension.

That's what I thought. So I bought an Abrams.

As it turns out, it wasn't that simple.

The Abrams has a 2.75-17 tubeless tire. I pump it up only to 20 psi, and set to the "soft" pedal mode. BTW, the Abrams weighs about 100 lbs.

Even with all that, my leg joints still gets punished.

A also bought an S22. Out-of-the-box, the sliders and pin joints sucked. There were way too much stiction. Although, it took out some of the jolts, it wasn't that much better than my V12 or my Abrams, surprisingly. My S22 suspension only become good after a put in the Hou NIngning roller sliders, and redid all the pin joints in the linkage, along with putting in a 300 lbs/in coil spring.

 

What was surprising though, was with my V12 (HS).

I put on a very stiff 16x2.5 tubeless tire. This tire is even stiffer than the stock Abrams tubeless tire, and by a lot. Note that the stock V12 tire size is 16x3.0.

However, with this tire and a soft pedal mode setting, my leg joints gets less punished overall, riding on the same roads and speeds than on my Abrams.

The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence.

But be wary. It is usually not the simple.

 

The only suspension wheels I know that will ride well out-of-the-box are the Veteran suspension wheels.

Maybe the S22 Pro, S19, or the S16/Pro too after redoing the linkage pin points? 

How many stairs do you have to contend with? Can you not roll up and down a V12 or Lynx?

[Funky]

1 hour ago, daniel1234 said:

I didn't like chunkiness of V12 (30kg) - when compared to V10F(20kg) for city commutes -> I would pick v10f. I am still doing daily commutes on s18 (23kg with suspension). Even after I get lynx I will not use it for going to work and back (12 km per day), because of stairs everywhere in my city. I am not able to carry more than 25 kg in one hand and go up stairs.

 

You know me - i'm all for lightweight wheels. I'll take V10F which is around 20kg everyday over V12 which is 30kg..

I also use my wheel for commuting to work everyday. And have need to carry my wheel A LOT!. My commute is even shorter than yours and i have a train ride in middle of mine. So i'm all for lighter wheels.

All i was saying was - Why not take V8 and beef that thing up.. End result will be about V10.. Otherwise if you take V10 and start beefing that thing up - you will end up with V12.  I carry my 18xl which is 26.5kg heavy everywhere. And for my next wheel i would want something in 20kg weight. It can even go slower and have half the battery of mine 18xl.

And my commute being very short and more or less on straight smooth sidewalk - i don't care for suspension. Big/Fat M/C tire is all i want. The fat rubber vs broken glass/nails/metal shavings are better than flimsy bicycle tires. That older wheels came with originally. 

Edited February 9 by Funky

[Funky]

43 minutes ago, techyiam said:

That's what I thought. So I bought an Abrams.

As it turns out, it wasn't that simple.

The Abrams has a 2.75-17 tubeless tire. I pump it up only to 20 psi, and set to the "soft" pedal mode. BTW, the Abrams weighs about 100 lbs.

Even with all that, my leg joints still gets punished.

A also bought an S22. Out-of-the-box, the sliders and pin joints sucked. There were way too much stiction. Although, it took out some of the jolts, it wasn't that much better than my V12 or my Abrams, surprisingly. My S22 suspension only become good after a put in the Hou NIngning roller sliders, and redid all the pin joints in the linkage, along with putting in a 300 lbs/in coil spring.

 

What was surprising though, was with my V12 (HS).

I put on a very stiff 16x2.5 tubeless tire. This tire is even stiffer than the stock Abrams tubeless tire, and by a lot. Note that the stock V12 tire size is 16x3.0.

However, with this tire and a soft pedal mode setting, my leg joints gets less punished overall, riding on the same roads and speeds than on my Abrams.

The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence.

But be wary. It is usually not the simple.

 

The only suspension wheels I know that will ride well out-of-the-box are the Veteran suspension wheels.

Maybe the S22 Pro, S19, or the S16/Pro too after redoing the linkage pin points? 

How many stairs do you have to contend with? Can you not roll up and down a V12 or Lynx?

Every rider is different.. The roads/paths we ride are different. The speeds we ride are different. One person would prefer to ride their Mten4 everywhere. That little 10" shitter of a wheel... OMG Who the duck would want to ride that toy - right?

But to him the Mten4 is amazing wheel and he doesn't care what others think. He bought that wheel for a reason. Not said Abrams, V12HS, or S22..

It is that simple.. There are only two answers for suspension - yes or no.

 

Same for me, i would take lighter wheel without suspension everyday of the week. I would even take 18" without suspension over a 10" with suspension. I would even prefer if they took out a suspension and instead of suspension weight added bigger wheel - Exchange suspension weight for a bigger wheel.

But that's Me.. And You are You. I wouldn't even want to ride V12.. Which you like. It's top heavy and 30kg 16" wheel.. Way to heavy for what it is. But that's ME again.. You like that thing. I don't.

Edited February 9 by Funky

[techyiam]

1 hour ago, Funky said:

Every rider is different.. The roads/paths we ride are different. The speeds we ride are different. One person would prefer to ride their Mten4 everywhere. That little 10" shitter of a wheel... OMG Who the duck would want to ride that toy - right?

For me, it is even more diverse.

For riding the exact same routes around town, I enjoy riding my V12, S22, and Abrams at the moment, but for different reasons.

It didn't start out this way. Once I started to ride all three wheels on the same routes day in day out, I could really notice the differences, and my like and dislikes for each wheel.

Then I started to further refine the tuning of each wheel. And with time, each got more and more to my liking, until now it is at a point where I like to ride all three.

Each wheel has its own unique appealing characteristics.

I have to say, for pure functionality as a transportation device for going from A to B, I find the S22 to be a great workhorse. It works well, and has good riding dynamics. 

I got to face reality. Real roads have all kinds of road surface imperfections, and all kinds of irregularities. A wheel with a good suspension helps.

Having said that, the V12 rides more like an extension of one's body, with minimum effort and deliberation. Moreover, I find a 16" wheel to be snappy and more responsive.

On the other hand, the Abrams requires more deliberate rider interactions. But I enjoy that aspect of riding, as I do on a motorcycle. Additionally, it feels the most planted. It's fun to ride wheel.

But if I am in a rush, or have to take an unknown route, I would probably take my S22.

 

Edited February 9 by techyiam

[Funky]

45 minutes ago, techyiam said:

For me, it is even more diverse.

For riding the exact same routes around town, I enjoy riding my V12, S22, and Abrams at the moment, but for different reasons.

It didn't start out this way. Once I started to ride all three wheels on the same routes day in day out, I could really notice the differences, and my like and dislikes for each wheel.

Then I started to further refine the tuning of each wheel. And with time, each got more and more to my liking, until now it is at a point where I like to ride all three.

Each wheel has its own unique appealing characteristics.

I have to say, for pure functionality as a transportation device for going from A to B, I find the S22 to be a great workhorse. It works well, and has good riding dynamics. 

I got to face reality. Real roads have all kinds of road surface imperfections, and all kinds of irregularities. A wheel with a good suspension helps.

Having said that, the V12 rides more like an extension of one's body, with minimum effort and deliberation. Moreover, I find a 16" wheel to be snappy and more responsive.

On the other hand, the Abrams requires more deliberate rider interactions. But I enjoy that aspect of riding, as I do on a motorcycle. Additionally, it feels the most planted. It's fun to ride wheel.

But if I am in a rush, or have to take an unknown route, I would probably take my S22.

 

Well i'm one wheel user and always will be.  Only time i ever will have 2 wheels personally - will be when i'm trying to sell old one. And even then i will probably sell my old one first, before getting new one..

As i'm small wheel enjoyer. I don't really have a options to choose from either. I'm still waiting for that wheel to be made in first place.  And when it's made your only option is to buy it, or not. Without looking at wheel characteristic, suspension, wheel size, top speed, or range. If it's light enough and built good enough you have to buy it. As something similar could be released maybe only after another 3-5 years. As we don't really get anything in lightweight and small made.. Begode is the only one who has made and still is making lighter wheels.  Rumored S14 seems lost in the wind.. And rest of manufacturers haven't even mentioned anything in lightweight category.

Yeah i bet S22 is the best wheel out of those 3 going over bumps and what not.. And at lower speed cruising i also think it would be the best. But for me it's to massive and to bulky for daily 5km commutes.

[techyiam]

35 minutes ago, Funky said:

But for me it's to massive and to bulky for daily 5km commutes.

Your need for a last mile device that is more up-to-date and very light to carry is putting you in a position of very limited prospect since the manufacturers are not interested in that class of wheels at the moment.